I made the mistake of taking my narcissistic dad to therapy sessions - and mentioned gaslighting. The next session he came in and proudly proclaimed how much he researched the term, read the definition to me, and was dumbfounded as to how I could feel the way that I did. - Don't take your narcissistic parents to therapy. It's not worth it. They'll never change or accept accountability. Live your life, just get help for yourself instead. You're better off without them in your life.
Congrats on breaking free from narcissism. Mostly likely you are the black sheep 🧬 Be proud you are different from your fam. Those that dont support you, walk away with no regrets including fam & so called friends. Take it from one who knows. I walked away from it all and I have NO REGRETS. One MUST surround yourself with like minded people. You can break free of narcissism whether you are the narcissist or if one is in relationship with a narcissism. You will be amazed your so called friends that are narcissists. I never saw that side until recently… they cant help it. Love from a distant or they will try to shame you & lower your vibration. Know your audience/circle of people. We are learning. 💜☀️🧬🙏🏻🛡
@vidhisha mulye yea but when u have a child together! They are still committed to destroy anything in your life that they can get a hold of or touch. Relationships especially.
That’s because you honestly believed there was something worth saving. That you had compassion and the belief that perhaps he could change. You are right that it was a mistake. But never forget that the belief came from a place of compassion and love, a noble quality in you. You learnt not to waste your compassion on someone who would weaponise it against you. You probably now have stronger boundaries. And I bet my bottom dollar your ability for compassion is still intact which is a beautiful thing. I always say, it could be far worse. I could be like them. Who would want to be that?
When I feel negative emotions stirring in me from narc abuse, I "step back", narrow my eyes and say to myself "You don't get to make me cry. You don't get to do that. I get to chose how I feel." Works for me.
It’s exactly what I do daily I had to live this to come to understand I dealt with Narc Abuse something I knew nothing about I’m still fighting my trauma wow this caught me off guard but I knew something was off that Narc ex
I love this woman. I sent her channel to my mother because my grandmother is a narcissist and I recognized how my mother has severe psychological burns from her. She helped my mother recognize the gaslighting and rage episodes.. Thank you so much, Doctor ❤
I sent her channel to my mother too, because my grandfather was a violent physically and emotionally abusive narcissist! She was his skapegoat, and I'm proud of her effort to stop people pleasing, and actually setting boundaries for the first time at 53 years old! Doctor Ramani is amazing..
That comment about loss of Innocence and empathy fatigue really resonates with me. My experience with someone who was possibly borderline personality disordered and definitely showed malignant narcissistic traits truly did me in. To realize that someone who supposedly loved me would utilize deliberate techniques to hurt me just to feed their demons was very eye-opening.
Somebody who is in a position of trust, who is supposed to be a therapist, have, empathy, and ethics! And use all of this to get you to put your defenses down faster… Somebody that looks just like a human, and yet actually gets off on causing other people pain. So mind boggling.
Sick, all of it. The need to feed knows no boundary. All the long while and entirely in individual cell blocks unbeknown to me or each one used…. Reins in his charmed prince, indeed as very knight in his shining armor white horse n all.
A previous boyfriend years ago appeared like a friendly kitten initially. A few months later, he appeared more like a grown tiger. I was quite confused why he was so mean. Years later, I'm understanding that the mistreatment towards me wasn't my fault. Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing your knowledge with good people like me. I like myself again.
I was married to a man who had narcissistic personality disorder, but didn’t know that until after we had children well after we had all of our children, and I just figured damn he is a selfish man always offended blaming me for every wrong. He was never wrong. I was the problem, and as long as I stayed focused on him, and only him life was fine because he was the center of the universe and demanded the most respect the most time the most love, the most everything money, and time or his he was a control freak he had to have an image that made him look good, he was allowed to be critical but you were never allowed to be he made you feel shameful and like a horrible person even when he did something horrible. After 29 years it was a relief to be divorced. It took 10 years of a lot of learning and a lot of therapy to get healthy and now all of my children have narcissistic personality traits, but I am praying God delivers them out of because I can’t change them and they have created chaos just like their dad nonstop.
@Massimo Berti That is very personal my friend. Speaking from some experience you are probably a nice guy attracting problematic people. If I could suggest, try being kind and put yourself first. She will do whatever she's going to do. 🙂
I love Dr.Ramani! My narcissistic experience began nearly 50 years ago with my ex but I had narcissistic parents as well. I feel like I needed Dr. Ramani all my life! Thank you for all the work you do!
The narcissist in my life was a horrible experience. The most enjoyable loving person turned into a nightmare. It blew my mind. I still can’t believe I experienced the devastation that he brought into my life.
This is so relatable. Have been gaslighted by a family member and all these narcissistic behaviors are also so relatable as I have gone thru for 20 years and consistently put up with it until one day it became so unbearable that I decided to never see him again. I am in such a better place. But this was everything that I went thru because I was too nice and naive to understand.
I am planning on going to school at a college. I have a BA but it’s not enough to get me a good job. I do not plan on telling my parents soon. I have already applied, I just need to decide where to go. I am excited for my future away from the parents. I know at least one of them is a narc maybe both. They just have to have their narrative though. They think I should be done with school so they can have more control. Planning a trip around college open houses of course they think I shouldn’t do it. I believe it will still happen. A psychiatrist will try to persuade me as well. I want to go as I want to get a feeling for them. A feeling I can’t get from looking online.
Narcs never change. Take my word. Live your own life and let them live theirs. Distance yourself. Trust me they would NEVER change. You'll harm yourself more, mentally if you try to even have a conversation with them . Forget breaking down. So take of yourself. Always be by your side. You don't need anyone. You're enough!
Dr. Ramani is an INFJ which partially explains her gifts and talents. She’s wonderful! My mom was also an INFJ and a natural counselor and also gifted with understanding people although she never believed us when we’d tell her so. INFJs are very humble, seeing this work as a natural duty, not realizing how special they are. They even share some of the same mannerisms. They are a rare personality type that the world desperately needs. It’s so refreshing to listen to her. ❤
One of the best lessons I learned in my journey to wholeness is: it’s not my responsibility to rescue, heal or correct others. God can use me in their journey to healing if they are serious about seeking healing. If not, then we respectfully move along and pray for them. ❤ I stayed in an unhealthy marriage for 32 years! Finally broken and realizing I needed to escape for my own survival mentally, I left. Going no contact unless it was about the children was vital. Be blessed everyone, it’s a tough road🙏🏻♥️
@Doodlebug Be strengthened and encouraged my sister! God never abandoned us throughout our journey . I am realizing how more common this is then not. We can only move onward and upward.
Amen Dorothy!!! When I met my gorgeous husband, he was quiet, reserved and charming! I had never heard of a Narc, let alone knew how he would destroy me! We were married for 35 years, but I didn't notice him "showing his true colors" til we were married for 5 years. By then we had 3 children! And he just got worse every year, blaming everything on me, even tho I had nothing to do with it! I was so devastated, until I learned that I am an Empath, and the only way I could cope was to pull away from him. He said I HAD to work, so I got a 3rd shift job in one town, while he worked a 1st shift in another town! THAT is the only way I kept my sanity! I prayed to God to either save him, or take him out of our marriage...and within 3 months, I received a call that he had passed away!!
Posted before I finished ....anyhow 16 yrs I stayed, the silence from him, shutting me out, not letting me into his heart just about killed me. I am just at the present learning not to engage, not react, it's difficult as we own property together and all the money I had was invested in this off grid property he built of course to show off all that he does...it is all about appearance with him.He thrives at having people see what an amazing man he is but I lived with him for 16 yrs and he is incapable of having any empathy, any intimate relationship with his own wife, called me his soul mate, his mates, but never treated me as such. I lost my identity, broke down mentally, physically and spiritually. He is clueless, has no emotion, incapable of reciprocating on any level ...just so sad and devastating. I am still questioning the existence of God and why this all happened ??? There are no answers.
I came to a point where I no longer will read the Bible because I witnessed my supposedly believer reading the Bible, had made vows to me before God which he never kept true to...I thought I married a Godly man, a man of faith, a man whom I fell in love with and thought I finally met a man who fell madly in love with me..... Well I was deceived, fooled and lied to. First big red flag the night of our wedding...I was in shock....tried to make sense of it all....when I tried to talk to him about what had happened there was nothing, silence, stone walling I now understand it to be...because of the faith aspect I could not make sense of any of it....this is a man who w
"You get there when you get there" Well said. After a therapist asked me who in my family was narcissistic (that I ended up with one) it still took me 6 years to realize it was my mother. Thank you Dr Ramani we love you!!! ❤️ ❤️❤️
Narcs never change. Take my word. Live your own life and let them live theirs. Distance yourself. Trust me they would NEVER change. You'll harm yourself more, mentally if you try to even have a conversation with them . Forget breaking down. So take of yourself. Always be by your side. You don't need anyone. You're enough!
I’m 20 and my ex is 42, and I just ended it, so exhausted after dealing with him. This resonates with me so much. And the worst part is I still feel like everything is my fault. 😢
I always thought there was something wrong with me. I'm still stuck in a 46 year marriage, but I now grey stone and can no longer be reduced to tears. Thank God for Dr. Ramadi.
I am really grateful for this episode, I have been a huge fan of both Dr Ramani and Jay Shetti and to see them in this podcast was very insightful. I really appreciate how the topic of narcissism is being discussed but at the same time, it does scare me in a way because some narcissist are well-informed and will use terms like "gaslight" or "project" and it can become really tricky. It is as if with time, as we get informed about narcissism they get better and better at hiding. My mother is a narcissist and I have been in many narcissistic relationships and I am still healing and it terrifies me to know you cannot avoid them. At the end of the day they are really wounded individuals and they too deserve compassion but it should never be at your expense
This is my life as well. My mother, sibling and current partner, as well as all past partners are and have all been narcissists. I didn’t fully understand it at all until started watching dr.Romani literally yesterday. I’m resolved to train myself to better see it and understand it but at the same time refuse to allow these toxic people to take me down a peg. I’m worthy being loved in a real way. I’m worthy of being treated as an equal and with respect. So are you. Do not give up, I know I won’t.
While I know emotional abuse is really awful, being abused both physically AND emotionally is worse. I say this because when you are being emotionally and physically abused, you CANNOT call out the emotional abuse at ALL for fear of being killed. It's terrifying. Also, when the physical boundary is broken, it feels like the last frontier has been breached.
Bella nova I have been there! Got out and hope you have or will too!🙏💚 Emotional and mental abuse was much worse for me personally from my mother in childhood and later in a relationship x
@Bella Nova the point she was making is that emotional abuse only has the same effect as physical abuse, or both. I also thought that emotional abuse was not as bad as physical. This led me to think that I could "handle" just emotional abuse, and that it would not have the same impact on me as just physical. This was a common way of thinking. I was emotionally and physically abused at home, and when I was with a partner who was also a narcissist, the emotional abuse was far more prevalent. I suffered more from the emotional abuse. And partly because I thought I could handle it, because the physical abuse was not constant, although the threat of it was always there. I thought I could handle it, and as a result I endured far more abuse than I ever should have. Most guys don't come out of the gates swinging. First they chip away at mental health for a while. The impact of emotional abuse, she's saying, causes the same trauma that physical abuse does. This is what the research has shown. When I left my narcissist ex, his aunt said to me, "I never saw any bruises," this was a denial of abuse, because many people still think that if they are not getting beaten then they are not really getting abused. This however is not true. Constant stress will ruin someone's health to the point of death. Words can carry a threat and create immense fear. Abuse is abuse, and if we think that because the physical barrier has not been breached that we are better off or it's easier we are lying to ourselves, and potentially putting ourselves at risk for getting into another abusive relationship, and gaslighting ourselves that we can deal with it because it's not physical. That's why it's important to recognize. It not to take away the impact and severity of the abuse you went through. It to understand and protect yourself from going through it again with another partner, and enduring it because it's not as bad, only to find that the stress of being with someone emotionally abusing us has the same effect as physical and emotional. Something that is ignored in the shelter system is head injury and concussion. Women who go to the shelters often are suffering from concussions and Ling term effects of this. But they are expected to behave as if they are not traumatized and not concussed. There is not recognition of this, and no drs referrals for this. Imo there should be a Dr available to do examination to help with DV victims especially at shelters. You have my empathy, we have gone through the same types of abuse, and I wish you a good recovery from your trauma and pain. You have my support and I hope you are staying on your side and taking good care of yourself. You deserve this.
@Bella Nova I am a DV survivor myself. Not underplaying physical violence at all. Physical violence comes with all the others is more what my point was. Unprogramming the mindset from receiving abuse was and sometimes still is the most difficult part of healing. I am 25+ years out.
@Nicole Besser I think you missed my point. It's not that verbal abuse isn't bad--if someone's physically abusing you, the verbal stuff is happening too. Also some physical injuries don't heal. I've got a TBI from being hit so many times and my brain hemorrhaging. Emotional is bad, of course. But both together are next level, cuz again, you know when you're being verbally accosted, you CAN'T talk back without the risk of getting murdered. And you can't heal from being dead.
Dr. Ramani helped to educate me in narcissism and helped me leave and never go back so I owe her greatly. I had no idea what it really was. I started seeing repetitive negative, toxic behavior, devaluing, criticism, habitual liar, cheater, no accountability the list just goes on and on. It is like being in a Hell! I am moving forward at peace now.
yep 100% agree it's that behaviour with that pattern to it no matter what you do - I'm so glad people are seeing and and talking about it there is more awareness now, I'm also in some face book groups like 'my red flags is a really good one when I'm struggling with old feelings or patterning hanging around' Blessings for you to keep growing blooming and healing from those past years and living through that I'm really happy to see you get out from it I wish my mum had managed to! I'm keeping my space but it's tricky when it's in the family stick to what you know is right no matter what other people say or try to convince you to do I can tell that I have been conditioned very heavily so the challenge is getting away and staying free from it happening again, Strength to You!
Every single manipulation tactic all but implies the use of the lying tactic and the gaslighting tactic. I actually dislike it a little calling out gaslighting as a manipulation tactic as it's actually an effect. All manipulation tactics will contribute to it by nature of what manipulation is. Some tactics however certainly take the gaslighting effect to a whole different level. Blatant lies that are so bad they insult your intelligence is one of them. That kind of shit will make you feel like you are in the twilight zone after a while. Here are some of the reasons they do this: To test their control. To feel superior and/or entertainment. This proves to themselves how much control they have over you. In the end, you will give up and you will not leave (trauma bonded). In the process of getting to the giving up stage, you will go through some pretty nasty emotional states ending in massive amounts of cognitive dissonance to swallow all of that. Cognitive dissonance is a trauma defense mechanism where you essentially lie to yourself in various ways so that you can bring back some semblance of equilibrium to the insanity you find yourself unable to escape from. As part of the ‘backing you into an emotional corner’ tactic. This is a tactic where you are manipulated into being emotionally unstable inevitably leading to you losing your shit. This gives the narcissist a big dopamine burst, they feel powerful and superior having so deftly controlled you and manipulated into this emotional state. To finish the little game they play, they make sure to point out how unhinged and unstable you are and suggest that perhaps you need help or medication. Of course, you will internalize all that shame and guilt and the million other raging emotions they have created and swallow all that essentially allowing them to scapegoat their blame and accountability onto you. Bring on some more cognitive dissonance and gaslighting effects. To condition you to expect less respect, and ultimately put up with more abuse. You will tire of the inevitable circular argument trying to convince the narcissist of the blatantly obvious lie and eventually find yourself challenging them less and less as you subconsciously accept the fact that if you do it will just make your life and emotional state more miserable and you will be denied the satisfaction of any kind of ‘win’ even if it is easy to disprove. This is part of the domination process and makes sure all the power in the relationship ends up with them by the end. To turn your mind to mush as the gaslighting effect takes hold more and more over time. This makes you even easier to control. Many times while easy to disprove it requires some kind of concession of some obvious truth that the narcissist can just doggedly refuse to agree with or remember (‘the intentional forgetting’ tactic and the ‘feigned confusion or ignorance’ tactics are often employed for this). So, in fact, it is not so easy to prove when the narcissist refuses to correctly remember what happened 10 min ago or accept sound logic or reasoning. You will just turn blue in the face trying. Of course, in some cases it is indisputable. A phone log or something. My experience is when this kind of stuff happens it wasn’t their intention typically, although sometimes it was. But in these scenarios, you will typically get some sort of angry ‘invalidating’ tactic, with some good old ‘manufactured rage’ and ‘intimidation’ tactics to ‘put you on the defensive’ and get you more susceptible to further manipulation. Maybe something like: “Get over yourself already” followed up by some ‘blame-shifting’ tactics with some good old ‘guilt’ and ‘shame’ tactics, like “Why the hell are you spying on my phone records anyway? What kind of relationship is this? I don’t have any privacy? I don’t know if I can do this anymore! You have major jealousy issues! You need help!” You will walk away as the loser either way. There are resistance tactics that can be used but this is a very difficult tactic to deal with and it is one of their favorites. I won’t get into the counter-tactics here though. The only way to really win in a relationship with a narcissist is to leave them and go no contact. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com,,
She is absolutely awesome. I am from Belgium and grew up with a narcissistic mother. Later my brother and sister became too. I suffered too much because of them and not understanding their behaviour. Now i also realize we are living in a narcissistic societies. Dr ramami you are a life saver. These video's bring awareness they help us victims to understand why we have low self esteem doubt our instincts etc..
I recently had a 7 year long friendship end with someone who was very narcissistic. Our relationship became rocky the moment I started setting boundaries and they pulled the “you don’t like me anymore” card. In the end, they took little to no accountability and they made me feel like everything was my fault. I live very close to this person and I still have to see them out in public and I’m trying to find a new normal on the other side. I still feel wounded and am trying to figure myself out after feeling so much self doubt, but I’m trying. I’m hoping I can find a decent therapist soon and heal past my situation
Which one of your prime caregivers was narcissistic ? Both maybe? Heal those mother or father wounds - often, it's about seeking the validation and attention of the father or the mother figure which WE seek in our partners. Grieve it and become the woman you Always wanted to be. Sending you light
After going from one narcissistic relationship to the next and the next, 20 yrs of these relationships and finally I found you! Thank you Dr Ramani you have changed my life, I’ve been trauma bonded to men my entire life not knowing this all stemmed from my relationships with my parents. Please keep doing what you do, you are changing lives ❤
"How he gets into your head" is an excellent book. It explains how abusers target their victims. The # 1 rule is not to tell men your traumatic experiences or past relationship issues until you can absolutely trust them. Information is earned. These awful people are out here looking for victims, and vulnerability is your Achilles heel.
Been a fan of Doctor Ramani for some time now. I think the whole Indian subcontinent can benefit from awareness on narcissism in Hindi. Most cultures around the world confuse it with good leadership and strong personality. I really think the world will change and visibly so when narcissism starts getting exposed in different languages around the world.
I think everyone should listen to this show if they want to have a healthy relationship. Narcs are so deceiving that it requires an expert breaking it down for you. Thank you both for a great informative session.
As always, Dr. Ramini is absolutely outstanding! She has helped me, and continues to help me heal. It's taking me years, but I'm getting there - thanks to Dr Ramini. I've never found a therapist who could help me the way she has. Thank you, Jay, for having her on your show.
This woman doesn't know me but she knows exactly what i suffered People who have suffered due to a narcissistic abuse, may god reduce your pain and give you more power, happiness and people who love the real you 🙏🏼
Dr Ramani's two books and KZclip channel have completely changed my life for the better. No matter how many times I hear her speak, I still learn something. Some of these concepts really need to be re-learned over and over again for those of us who have spent our entire lives under the thumb of abusive people. I am so grateful for this beautiful human 🙏♡
It's difficult when you realize you weren't properly nurtured. We have to self nurture now. There is a Rumi quote [ paraphrasing] Your heart has to break and break and break until it finally opens.
My Mother and also my daughter have narcissistic behaviours, I have felt so depleted in the past and these youtube videos by dr Ramani have set me on the right course to deal and recover after a whole lifetime of struggle. Amazing, thank you 🙏
Every one of Dr. Ramani's discussions brings me closer to freedom. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Ramani. The tools you share along with your genuine care is turning my life around. Finally knowing my narcissistic partner is incapable of changing is giving me the incentive I need to practice 'radical acceptance'. I accept his incapacity to have a healthy relationship, so I will no longer waste my time, energy, and life suffering through pain, confusion, hurt, and anger. After almost 40 years while raising 3 children, I lived under the influence of an antagonistic husband, I am finally taking my own justice by living my best, healthy life to the fullest without bothering to "feed" the narcissistic ego anymore. In the past, I kept excusing his behavior, thinking it must be due to a 'cultural' difference. (He's Asian Indian, and I'm Italian American.) I should have realized long ago that narcissistic, antagonistic, and angry behavior has no 'culture." Now, from Dr. Ramani I learned how to soul-distance myself, and it feels so empowering. I am experiencing that as I soul-distance from the dysfunction, I am getting closer to my own 'soul', and being myself. Her concept of 'existential justice' is helping me to become free from the terrible and uncomfortable anger I feel toward him. Understanding that he is in a constant state of fear of losing control is a life sentence of bad karma and suffering for him that I now realize I need no longer share or be subjected to. I can move beyond it. There is a part of me that is beginning to feel sorry for him, but I am still vulnerable and must protect myself. I will continue to 'grey rock' while wishing him well without the real me, from a soul distance. I cannot thank you enough for the knowledge and concern you share with us so clearly and expertly.
@blackbriarwolf we know our own story. We are not blaming, just taking our responsibility back for our own lives instead of allowing another person to control it. Man or woman need not lose themselves to another. In a healthy relationship there is mutual respect for each other. God created Man and women to compliment each other not control or degrade each other in blame and shame. Some Women lie, some tell the truth like dr Armani. some men lie, some tell the truth like dr les carter. We all would do well to listen to them.
@susan hawkes yes I find that soul distancing protects our soul. Such a valuable tool. It helps us to take responsibility for our own lives and live our healthy best
Why don’t you take responsibility instead of blaming your husband for everything. We don’t know the whole story just from your point of view. Women lie A LOT.
That's my relationship. It pays pretty well & I have soul-distanced for nearly a decade. He knows if he ever strikes me again, he will go to jail. I was raised (abused) by a narc mother, so this is familiar. My eyes are now open & I have made my choice to not run away.
I was married to a narcissist borderline. We went to 7 different therapist that all told us the same thing but he would just want to change counselors when he was diagnosed and told me it was all my fault or that I must have spoken to them and told them to say that. He was terribly abusive and almost stole my joy. I am thankful every day to have escaped. Thank you for this so I won’t make same mistake. I love you guys! Btw my counselor told me that one of my mistakes that I was making was always trying to fix him or explain mutuality. She said that he only understands control and if he wasn’t controlling me than he thinks I’m in control and that’s when I paid the price. 😢 the problem was he didn’t want to admit he had a problem so he wouldn’t seek professional help. So it seems in these cases there is no hope and men like him will just keep abusing more. Right? Unfortunately I haven’t dated much since.
Can you expand on some of the signs he had both narcissism and borderline? I've been interested in how both would present in someone even though I know other factors go into the final presentation...it still fascinates me so much
I now know what I have been going through in my life. I have been married for 44 years this year and never realize I have been married to a narcissist. Thank you Doctor Ramani. You have helped me more then you know.
Dr. Ramani, you're wonderful! The word validated sings to my heart! I'm in a serious narcissistic relationship that I've finally been able to end as we speak. People outside the home don't see it at all. Being invalidated has been one of the most difficult parts of the abuse. Thank you for all your work.😅
I cry whenever I hear Dr. Ramani. She's telling my story, my Moms story. The sad thing is I can't help my Mom through her anymore because my Mom passed away. I'm benefitting though and realizing the work is me. What a treasure Dr. Ramani is; she needs to be cloned, but ok, through books and podcasts. I'm so grateful!
I wish I found you in 2004. I was getting out of an extremely toxic relationship then and learned years later about narcissists. It opened my eyes. Listening to this makes me want to cry and scream! This was my ex 100%!! Everything you say was him. I remember telling him there is no way I can be wrong on everything! Wow. So crazy.
When i first got started my psych degree back in 2004 i was especially focused on mental disorders and narcissism as i realized my family was deeply enmeshed and varying degree narcs and i was the family scapegoat. Dr Ramani over the years of videos and talks have truly helped me to help heal myself and deal with all these repercussions of these awful relationships i endured (which is why i went into psych in the first place) narcs also HATE psych, self help, anything that that makes you have self awareness, they will fight you till the end. Then you learn how to work solely on yourself and go on your own quest. they come back in with old antics, they attack more and harder bc their antics are no longer working on you. The separation abuse is some of the worst parts, just like with domestic violence. I'm extremely grateful for dr ramani, she's likely saved my life
47 years, then I watched videos on narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder and narcissistic abuse. I don’t think it matters if they have narcissistic traits or narcissistic personality disorder, it’s the measure of destruction it leaves in their wake. All I know is I thank the Lord for the enlightenment and turning my back on their bitter legacy. I didn’t inherit from my father: financially nor his toxicity. I delighted in learning through therapy I had bundles of empathy, but not always because I can fall short in many aspects of life but I am good enough in most of the things that matter. I find animal cruelty really upsetting, I lover opera, am disengaged from politics and I just cannot find the energy to get that engaged about climate change at 50, but I am okay to be passionate about the things that mean something more to me. It’s gratifying to know that that I am not the only family scapegoat, the only victim of narcissistic abuse. There’s too many of us but we’ are becoming more aware. The beauty of knowledge sharing is that I think there are more and more “I finally realised the truth” stories against the backdrop of “what is wrong with me or this is normal” stories. The most amazing thing about narcissism for me is that many victims actually come out of abuse asking the question am I a narcissist? I swear if I was the devil, and I wanted to cause widespread misery and destruction, I’d ditch the serial killer, psychopath model and invent the narcissist. The collateral damage is brutal and far greater collectively than the psychopaths. You can be this way and be a worshipped celebrity or media personality. It’s seductive if you are unaware because it’s packaged in a way that we advertise products: essentially, you are lacking if you haven’t got this product, or you’re not like this high achieving wealthy, celebrated person. What I learned by walking away, is that I lost an inheritance of millions from a highly successful father, but I’m free and have very little but it’s a better life. Best decision I ever made as hard as it is sometimes. I write far too long comments on KZclip. It’s okay. So what.
LOL. Had to laugh at the “too long comments” remark because i do that too on FB or in messages. After not being heard, being silenced for so long sometimes it takes practice and opportunity, to rebalance, to hear ourselves out loud. If raised by someone with narcissism, as i was, for first 7 years then in foster system I feel i am often learning now what could have at 5 had the conditions been not so confining and oppressive. It’s cute when 5 year olds are learning …the world is far less tolerant of learning later though in the end loves a life long learner. Being in safe places, around people who care and understand while we practice, while we catch up is a vital support for hearing ourselves. Besides the depth Dr. Ramani speaks of isn’t often expressed in sound bytes well. And with age and wisdom you have more to say…spot on: “It’s seductive if you are unaware because it’s packaged in a way that we advertise products”…a systemic condition.
The best thing a parent can teach their child for survival in the matrix is to listen to their own intuition and higher self. All a person really has in this world is themselves, you want your child to be independent and to think for themselves and to be strong on their own. Teach your child to do the right thing and to be a good, kind, helpful person to others and to all living thongs and this planet. Teach them empathy for others. Teach them to think and feel beyond themselves.
I really hope & pray each day that our Canadian therapists hone in on Narcissism and help to heal from narcissistic abuse.. 7 years of searching through therapists to only end up without. Thank you Dr. Ramani for opening my eyes to what I was living with for so long. Sooo thankful I got out and away from the narcisissits. I probably would have died trying to deal with the angst and anxiety I felt. I thought I was going crazy. Thank you Jay Shetty for your daily encouraging words & posts.
SO GLAD this is FINALLY being brought to the forefront!! Narcissists are EVERYWHERE and education is KEY!! Still want to manifest an interview as a Narcissistic Abuse survivor. #DreamBig
I shared this with some friends and it sparked such a wonderful conversation that none of us ever expected to have. Thank you both for this episode, tremendously appreciative.
I totally agree "im tired of seeing the loss of potential of the people who get caught in these relationships" the light is dimmed , they become an aspect of themselves and shut down vitality spontaneity and life force , often fearing the unknown yet the unknown can often be way better than the known-blessings and light to anyone watching this
Dr. Ramani's work and words are life-changing. It took me 2 years of marriage to see the patterns in my husband's behavior (ie. arrogant, unempathetic, entitled yet cowardly, complainy, easily angered, talks down about others to make himself feel better, etc.) Our relationship is a rollercoaster. I also spent years as the peacemaker while my husband walked all over me, but once we had our firstborn I stopped enabling him. I now hold my husband accountable for his words and actions, and he is expected to do all things I can do (even if it's just out of habit and not empathy). My children are now my priority, and my husband will prove to me that he can be a better dad than his own father was to him.
I am so thankful and grateful for this AMAZING interview!!! Two of my absolute favorite people in this world collaborated on a topic/experience that I have unfortunately been through 3 times. If it weren't for both of you, I most likely wouldn't have the awareness or the capacity to recognize these behaviors/signs/recognize what was going on. Dr. Ramani and Jay Shetty, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Here's to making wisdom go viral! xo
WOW this has been so incredibly valuable, thank you so much to you both. Last year I called and spoke to the police as I had received a highly abusive text message from my bullying sibling (for no reason). It trashed me as a human being, made horrible and distressing false accusations and was an attempt to destroy my very being. I was told by police it was a malicious communication that was sent to cause harm, therefore could be classified a crime. A few days later I wrote to my sibling and notified them of my actions and that if they ever did anything so vicious again I would take legal action. Not ideal, but it was time. After 60 years I now feel much safer. I believe in standing up to bully's.
Thank you so much for this great interview! Still half an hour to watch and I've already cried several times. I just came out of a narcissistic relationship and only realised it in the end, actually not until afterwards. I found myself in so many of her words and feel understood/seen, can take the blame off me. 💜
Thank you for inviting Dr. Ramani to your podcast. I really admire her for all the research she does on this issue about narcissism. Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing your wisdom and knowledge! I have watched every single episode in your KZclip channel, and I need to say that you literally saved me from a very toxic relationship.
I’m speechless. I want to say thank you at the core of my heart to both of you, I really needed to hear all of this, that is helping me in my healing journey because I recently had a breakup with a narcissist, it didn’t last long but it is true that you loose yourself while and after being with someone like that. Thank you Jay, I love your podcast since always ❤
Don't argue with a fool for they will hurt you The best that you can do is step away Don't tie yourself to children, they'll desert you Fools and children live as if there's just today Much contention causes losses and estrangement Isolation is a sickness unto death Loss of love is a sure pathway to derangement So make peace within our soul with every breath Don't get angry if you're called the worst of many Don't withdraw your hands from all that they can do Those who would deny your love do not have any For the best of folks will see the best in you
I’ve read both of Dr. Ramani’s books and regularly listen to her channel and interviews. This by far has been my favorite interview she’s given. Something was extra special about her examples and explanations in this one ❤
Her begining statements of how mental healthcare ignored what was going on and laying blame on the victim are absolutely correct. Usually done in the form of saying the victim wasn't rising to the relationship somehow. I was told the things I was bringing to therapy were me just complaining. Yet I had a spouse who was emotionally immature, emotionally distant, didn't communicate, was vindictive, was emotionally cruel, twisted all of my communication, motives, and intent into something I had not said or done, could not communicate without instantly twisting conversation to be about themselves, waited years into the marriage to express chauvinistic beliefs and expectations of me, demanded my focus 24/7, did not care about me or the children, expected things of me that they weren't willing to do, say or be, believed they were superior to me, believed they had rights of lordship over me and my time, expected special considerations from me and the children, did not grow or mature, was cold hearted and uncaring, always tried to turn the rooms focus onto themselves, could not relate to or participate in social or family situations of emotional crisis or grief, refused all responsibilities or ownership, didn't have normal or mature social skills, no common sense, didn't connect with comedic situations, blamed me and others for everything they didn't like, want, or expect, dismissed things I liked, and exploited both emotional and physical circumstances to take advantage of, or revenge on me. Plus his mother is also twisted in behavior, thought, and manipulates all her children while treating them like children. Yet according to the therapist I was missreading everything. Then the psych testing we had done turned up severe narcissism, and other significsnt dysfunctional traits in ex and no abnormal dysfunctions of me. That was the end of that psychologist/therapist and ex.
@Krystal Mtn oh wow! i pretty much did exact same experience! i did too call her back and asked to meet her.. i needed to say things how they were, i both 'thanked' her for what she had brought positive (which wasn't much, tbh.. i went OUT of her cabinet in a way worst state than i entered) but clearly expressed how i felt she had missed the point entirely.. with no surprise, those classic 'cabinets' struggle admitting they may have failed you.. totally get you. !
@Artemis Tarot Readings Amen too that! I actually made contact with the Psy about 4yrs later and she refused to speak to me, along with refused to release the records and her notes. By the time I got done she knew she had royally screwed up but clearly doesn't understand the depths of what she did.
yep. i also stumbled on an incompetent psy. The aftermath of not being heard almost led me to suicide. Those matters are serious. I'm so glad you went out of the rabbit hole.. just like i did.
@Krystal Mtn WOW! That is just insane! Thank God for your dog, and that you are out of this crazy madness! Dealing with these people is so dangerous to our physical, emotional, and mental well-being. I am drained. I am on survival mode.
Thank you for your work and experience for us to learn from. I left a terrible relationship five years ago to work on and grow myself;best decision after decades of abuse. I am learning to meet my needs of love, respect, appreciation, safety and boundaries. So much joy and peace to be me. I pray the same for all abused persons that want relief.🥰
Appreciative of you both and your content. The intent, momentum, and energy of this conversation was validating, clarifying/informative, and constructive towards moving forward from feeling stuck in these relationship dynamics.
The gaslighting started with, ‘that’s strange how we experienced totally different things’ to ‘you’re confused,-need therapy, -don’t know what your talking about, -etc.’ I got to a point where I couldn’t tell my dreams from reality. To pulled myself out by journaling (sometimes 2-3 times a day) everything and literally recorded every conversation using my phone. To this day he does not know about the recordings. But I would listen to them so that I would know ‘my reality’ was Reality. Eventually, I came out on the other side so, alone, because so many others are falling for his deception, but I prefer to be alone and sane then Gaslite on a near daily basis in ways that were petty and pointless except to drive me crazy. He seemed literally incapable of knowing and telling the truth about anything. No longer my problem.
I follow Dr. Ramani. She moved me from survivor to thriver, and now I am working on being a warrior. She is one of the most beautiful human beings I have ever seen. She affects eternity - she will never know where her influence ends. Can't say enough, can't feel enough good things, can't wish enough happiness for Dr. Ramani. Thank you for hosting her.
Thirty years ago when I married the narcissist I was totally baffled, we are so lucky to have Dr Ramani explain to us how the narcissist operates and I might add so on point. Every time I watch her videos she describes my life for the last thirty years.
This is such an important lesson we all need to hear. I am an adult daughter of a narcissistic mother (the scapegoat) also the ex wife of a narcissistic psychopath (diagnosed by a therapist) but I am a now healed and empowered Empath. So, I feel that there are many Empaths who need healing, then watch out narcissistic people, we will slay!
I think that in a relationship there should be always empathy and understanding of each other, when things like not showing up to appointments or not answering your messages happen, even though they might look like small details, it means this person lacks empathy towards you. To me it made a difference when I thought "would I have done the same thing? would I have left them with no answer if I received my message expressing the way I feel and think?" and the answer was no, I would have thought of what I could say, how I could explain myself and what to say to make this less hurtful, I wouldn't have left them without answer. "would I have promised to call or show up and then disappear without explanation?" again, really not. That's when I saw I was caring and they were not. Sad to see but true. And hard to accept too. Also because, as said in the podcast, some people know very well how to mix positive and negative moments, so there will be that day in which they do give an explanation for not coming, but stay assured that next time you won't even receive a text. So you start thinking, well maybe this time they didn't have time... if this happens over and over it means something, and that something is that they have a problem and can't behave normally and have empathy for others' feelings. They know how to leave you in doubt so that you are never sure whether you should keep them in your life or not. Again, if I put myself in their shoes, I wouldn't want anyone in my life to feel doubtful about the way I feel about them or if they are worth my time or not, I want people to know I care, not to be in constant doubt, just shows how much they don't care about other's well-being. Sorry for the long comment, my thoughts keep running!!
That's exactly how my situation turned out I started noticing once I was in it. At 1st I said he had narcissistic tendencies. It wasn't clear that he was truly narcissistic until I left him. Took me 2yrs Too long... Stayed longer because I ended up having a child with him & like most tried to make things work. Until it was Clear what kind of person I was dealing with. I chose my Child & Self!!! Walking away was the Best thing I could of done.
Narcs never change. Take my word. Live your own life and let them live theirs. Distance yourself. Trust me they would NEVER change. You'll harm yourself more, mentally if you try to even have a conversation with them . Forget breaking down. So take of yourself. Always be by your side. You don't need anyone. You're enough!
A healthy relationship is reciprocating. In a relationship with a NPD, they want their partner to carry the weight. Like, the partner always apologizes; they pick up the tab more than they should; they’re the better planner in things that matter. A lot of times the NPD needs a 3rd attraction (called Triangulation) from their partner, like another partner, a best friend, the waitress when you two are in a restaurant, a pet...
I started my research on this subject 8 yrs ago. This is, by far, the very best podcast ever. And thank you, I have come farther than I thought. S0 good!
Kudos for this fantastic, comprehensive, & uplifting interview. At least, that was my takeaway. Jay Shetty, my compliments for your thoughtful, well-timed questions and your ability to know when to speak and when to listen. Dr. Ramani, I've learned and continue to learn so much from your words. It is an honor to have a ring-side seat as you evolve, fine-tune your work, and spread wisdom.
I found meditation helped me a lot ..,when you can have a sense of self mastery and gratitude for everything in your life you start to see what you truly value and the value you hold as a human being and once you have that permeated deep within you ride the waves safely to the shore you find land you can stand in you roots with confidence it’s a process but it all starts with knowing thy self and choosing to believe you are worthy of respect of self respect when you have it you do t need to get outside of you you’re all good 😊
Thank you Jay! I’m interested in knowing more about how to manage having an actual narcissist as a dad but he wasn’t in the household. There’s a whole bunch of people who experience real narcissistic parents and also abandonment but there’s not that much information on how to heal when the parent was in and out of your life. If anyone has resources, I’d appreciate that! When my dad is around, it’s very hurtful to experience his personality. I know people use the term narcissist a lot but he actually is. Not as an exaggeration. All resources welcome 🧡✨
Aside from Dr. Ramani, I also love Patrick Teahan and Darren McGee's channels. They're all excellent licensed therapists who articulate the effects of narcissism in such a helpful way.
At risk of being chastised or blocked, I wanted to respond to your post. Dr Ramani does have both books and her own YT channel about narcissism. But I also find the following variety of teachers on the subject very helpful. The books and YT channels of Dana Morningstar, and Angie Atkinson both have been teaching on this subject for 20yrs and started YT channels back in 2015 when no one else was focusing on the subject. So they have considerable libraries of videos. Also The Little Shaman YT channel. Christine Louise de Canonville has a couple of free downlaodable books and an international teaching practice about family relational narcissism with siblings and parents. Like Dr Ramani, all of the above have both clinical and personal experience with narcissistic relationships. Angie Atkinson (recently passed in Nov 2022) has insights from being raised by a narcissistic parent and how that altered her childhood existence, into adulthood, and into the study and hesling from narcissistic relationships. When looking for clinical insights I like both Dr Linda Martinez's healing from narcissist relationships YT channel and books. Or Dr Les Carter YT channel and books. Plus he has weekly live streams where you might get personal questions answered. Angie Atkinson's business partner Lisa Colucci has continued Angie's weekly live streams where you can also ask questions. Both those channels have their old live streams in their library so questions others may have asked can offer others insight. Also the live chat's of those live streams offer personal insights between narcissist abuse survivors.
Thank you Dr Ramani for your knowledge and wisdom. I've been able to connect the traumas in my childhood to my adult relationships. Being the scapegoat, invalidated, not acknowledged; sent me into toxic relationships. Though I understand more now, the confusion and pain are still present, and the healing and reality of it all is difficult and overwhelming. This video and others have helped me tremendously.
This is so incredibly spot on that it's scary. 😪 Thank you both so much. This episode was incredibly insightful and strangely comforting, to help me realize that I'm not "crazy."
My mom is a narcissist and I coparent with my ex who is a narcissist. As I am working on my trauma healing, I’ve tried to learn as much as I can about narcissism because I am so afraid of continuing to put myself into the hands of narcissistic people.
This podcast is so important! I was completely engrossed in every word and learnt so much … will be listening to it a few more times … it was so informative and relatable and articulately put ❤
Today I watched this . I shared this on my FB page . I am investing this information in my life and I will grow . In all aspects of my life . I am so grateful to be open to receive this . Thank you . I feel so empowered to make change where I can , to have the ability to choose. This is amazing for ME and my children.
Phenomenal information. You've explained the issues so in depth. Thank you. I work with DV survivors and will definitely offer this video to them to watch.... Thanks again.
Thank you so so much for this.... It started making me feel like I am always wrong. The constant blame started to affect my mind, and I became to lose myself in a way that I started to compromise on anything just to make him happy. Very sad love story, unfortunately. Thank you for sharing this.
Thank you Jay for this brilliant session!! I have been following Dr.Ramani for the past 2 years and her directions and guidance have helped me understand my own traumas so much!! I was thrilled when I saw her as the guest on your show today!!! I have had my stint with narcissism for close to 3 decades(first with my mother followed by my husband) and could relate to the part which spoke about the impact it has on the survivors. I took a decision to move away from the relationship 10 years back and started working on myself. Today, I feel a lot better (a special shoutout to your Genius group 😊) however, the process is long and it needs a lot to be so patient with myself. I absolutely loved the idea of having an internal security guard!!! Today I know I am at a much better place and it gives me so much of pleasure to know that I am my own best buddy! It's a great feeling!!! Thank you so so much for showing us the way!!! Also, could you please have another session with her and elaborate a little bit more on the tools that the survivors can use to regain their trust in mankind? Thank you so much once again!!! 😊
I’ve never been more grateful for anything than having run into my narc ex fiance. It was a gift of a lesson. I was fortunate and only did two years though. Some deal with this with parents and longer relationships and aren’t so lucky. The longer you’re exposed the harder it can be to go through and get through all that. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone it absolutely shatters you as a person. But, you can get through it and learn from it and take back your life and mind.
Wonderful interview. I cannot tell you how eye-opening this conversation was for me. I already ordered the books. Thank you for lifting off a huge weight from me. Much grateful 🙏🏻❤️
Jay Shetty and Dr Ramani, two people coming together, what can be better than this! Two people whom I have religiously been following, two people who have been helping me (and several hundreds) survive, grow and heal sit together in this podcast and create magic! Thank you for creating this content. Dr. Ramani's expertise in this subject is evident in how each word that she speaks is so coherent with what one experiences. Hope Dr Ramani, you find a way to heal the narcissist. And Jay, lovely sweatshirt!
One of the most tell/tell signs you're dealing with a Narc, is finding yourself explaining normal life things to a grown person. Like telling them how to treat you, or others, time & time again and seeing no real changes or none at all.
Thank you, this podcast helped me so much. A year ago I was gaslighted,but didn't know how to name that situation. I thought less of myself and was afraid of the next interaction with those people, who are my relatives. But now I know that they are just those people, and I now know that I am good and I don't want to communicate with them.
I remember when I was still living with my narc ex husband that I felt a dark spiritual cloud over my head, and all I could think was, "I need to get back to being me." When I filed my restraining order and moved out, that's when I began to heal.
I have seen Dr Ramani's youtube videos on narcissism and I finally realized what my mother had and still is doing to me. I thank you doctor for helping me make sense of narcissism. Despite keeping a distance, she will still call me and nag about things that would annoy me and blame my husband for my keeping distance with her. It is tough when family member is a narcissist and the rest are her flying monkies. I pray I could have more sane and healthy people in my life.
Thank you so much Dr Ramani and Jay .This podcast has been so very enlightening , balanced and positively life affirming , giving creedence and support without jugement .
WONDERFUL video!!! I sought out therapy to help me leave the narcissist and stay away! I lost count of how many times I tried to leave and would get sucked right back in. My excellent therapist made me focus on myself and ONLY myself and what I wanted my life to be moving forward. It took about 6-7 sessions before I could stop focusing on HIM. When you're under the spell of a narcissist, you forget that you're a separate person from the narcissist and you have to relearn to be autonomous.
Thank You Dr. Ramani & Jay for your compassionate efforts at making us all aware of the need for attention to red flags, implimentation of serious boundaries, and self preservations. Peace and whole health to all!! 💕💪
My first husband was a narcissist and I was a true co-dependent. He finally left me when he found someone who reinforced his needs more than I did. Sadly the narcissist/codependent relationship pattern continued with my adult son and he assumed narcissistic tendencies as well. As an adult in his thirties, (notably at the same age his father left), he cut me off after I told him I could no longer afford to provide him with significant financial support once I retired and that I wanted to downsize and move to a retirement community. This broke my heart but also made me recognize the pattern in my life. I am only just learning now through therapy and research how to break my co-dependent patterns and set clear boundaries. It's very sad but I am growing and trying to learn from it. I love my son deeply but the pattern is damaging for both of us.
I worked in newborn nursery . One baby girl had the calmest sweetest look on her face . She appeared to be glad to be here. I sometimes wonder how she was as an older person. 🙂
I can't express in words that how this beautiful lady is working hard day and night and helping out people out there to get out of narcissistic relationships and all that toxic stuff people have been surrounded with for so long.... She is truly an angel in the form of human... And all the people helping people out are just amazing.... Lots of love and respect to you beautiful lady May God bless you both with happiness and success ❤️
57:20 tiger's cage 1:00:07 you become you - accepting to not bring the full of you in the unhealthy relationships (they don't get to see all of me, because they are not able to hold me safe) - neutral conversations topics 1:10:00 your story: the hope has to be in oneself
Im going thru it now knowing I was being gaslighted every time for my feelings my reaction. The disrespect or discomfort was always my fault was draining to feel like I had to apologize and they didn’t. I reached out to apologize for something they did broke a boundary I had and it was my fault in the end. I let go and im struggling so much even tho I know it wasn’t my fault 💔
I scored a 7 on the ACES intake evaluation when I started treatment. I need to ask my mom what I was like as a baby and toddler. Can’t believe I never have asked her. I have report cards that show some difficulty. I posted a comment on another video. Looking back over my past. I definitely had at the very least some narcissistic episodes.
![Quando Rondo - Where Would I Be [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PDDVzUvmZaA/mqdefault.jpg)
I made the mistake of taking my narcissistic dad to therapy sessions - and mentioned gaslighting. The next session he came in and proudly proclaimed how much he researched the term, read the definition to me, and was dumbfounded as to how I could feel the way that I did. - Don't take your narcissistic parents to therapy. It's not worth it. They'll never change or accept accountability. Live your life, just get help for yourself instead. You're better off without them in your life.
Congrats on breaking free from narcissism. Mostly likely you are the black sheep 🧬 Be proud you are different from your fam. Those that dont support you, walk away with no regrets including fam & so called friends. Take it from one who knows. I walked away from it all and I have NO REGRETS. One MUST surround yourself with like minded people. You can break free of narcissism whether you are the narcissist or if one is in relationship with a narcissism. You will be amazed your so called friends that are narcissists. I never saw that side until recently… they cant help it. Love from a distant or they will try to shame you & lower your vibration. Know your audience/circle of people. We are learning. 💜☀️🧬🙏🏻🛡
Mine wouldn't even go... She was like you need therapy not me , probably for the best.... ur right 🤣🤣🤣
@vidhisha mulye yea but when u have a child together! They are still committed to destroy anything in your life that they can get a hold of or touch. Relationships especially.
If anything, they will just get more tools and more reasons to abuse you!
That’s because you honestly believed there was something worth saving. That you had compassion and the belief that perhaps he could change. You are right that it was a mistake. But never forget that the belief came from a place of compassion and love, a noble quality in you. You learnt not to waste your compassion on someone who would weaponise it against you. You probably now have stronger boundaries. And I bet my bottom dollar your ability for compassion is still intact which is a beautiful thing. I always say, it could be far worse. I could be like them. Who would want to be that?
When I feel negative emotions stirring in me from narc abuse, I "step back", narrow my eyes and say to myself "You don't get to make me cry. You don't get to do that. I get to chose how I feel." Works for me.
This was helpful thanks
It’s exactly what I do daily I had to live this to come to understand I dealt with Narc Abuse something I knew nothing about I’m still fighting my trauma wow this caught me off guard but I knew something was off that Narc ex
Thank you, I'll use this now onwards.
Thank you for this
I have reached the same stage with a narc husband. I thought I was the bad person for 46 years of marriage. He doesn't get me in tears anymore.
I love this woman. I sent her channel to my mother because my grandmother is a narcissist and I recognized how my mother has severe psychological burns from her. She helped my mother recognize the gaslighting and rage episodes.. Thank you so much, Doctor ❤
@Amjaad Jad 😊
😮 what my Grandmother is or aswell. This is why she was thrown out and lives in old people's home
@mireilleelassal978 I'm deeply greatful and happy for you ❤️❤️❤️ I feel you ❤️❤️ I'm proud of your mom too ❤️
I sent her channel to my mother too, because my grandfather was a violent physically and emotionally abusive narcissist! She was his skapegoat, and I'm proud of her effort to stop people pleasing, and actually setting boundaries for the first time at 53 years old! Doctor Ramani is amazing..
Yes,my mom and ex husband r the same and both r gaslighting me
That comment about loss of Innocence and empathy fatigue really resonates with me. My experience with someone who was possibly borderline personality disordered and definitely showed malignant narcissistic traits truly did me in. To realize that someone who supposedly loved me would utilize deliberate techniques to hurt me just to feed their demons was very eye-opening.
Somebody who is in a position of trust, who is supposed to be a therapist, have, empathy, and ethics! And use all of this to get you to put your defenses down faster… Somebody that looks just like a human, and yet actually gets off on causing other people pain. So mind boggling.
Sick, all of it. The need to feed knows no boundary. All the long while and entirely in individual cell blocks unbeknown to me or each one used…. Reins in his charmed prince, indeed as very knight in his shining armor white horse n all.
Same! 😢 It took me about 10 years to get out of the grips of this person. Never again.
A previous boyfriend years ago appeared like a friendly kitten initially. A few months later, he appeared more like a grown tiger. I was quite confused why he was so mean. Years later, I'm understanding that the mistreatment towards me wasn't my fault. Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing your knowledge with good people like me. I like myself again.
@Erica G not true lol most women can’t take accountability
100%
How people treat your is a reflection of them, not you. Even if people treat me like crap I don't change how I treat people, I'm a nice person.
of course not, it couldn't have been anything you did... it was the evil monster
50:50 Don’t Go DEEP:
🚫 Don't Defend
🚫 Don't Engage
🚫 Don't Explain
🚫 Don't Personalize
Yanno, this is so true and I just learned about Gaslighting a year ago, I
Don’t say or do ANYTHING THEN…WHAT BULLSH-!
I was married to a man who had narcissistic personality disorder, but didn’t know that until after we had children well after we had all of our children, and I just figured damn he is a selfish man always offended blaming me for every wrong. He was never wrong. I was the problem, and as long as I stayed focused on him, and only him life was fine because he was the center of the universe and demanded the most respect the most time the most love, the most everything money, and time or his he was a control freak he had to have an image that made him look good, he was allowed to be critical but you were never allowed to be he made you feel shameful and like a horrible person even when he did something horrible. After 29 years it was a relief to be divorced. It took 10 years of a lot of learning and a lot of therapy to get healthy and now all of my children have narcissistic personality traits, but I am praying God delivers them out of because I can’t change them and they have created chaos just like their dad nonstop.
@Scott Black is absolutely very true. I honestly feel like we end up with PTSD.
@Massimo Berti
That is very personal my friend.
Speaking from some experience you are probably a nice guy attracting problematic people.
If I could suggest, try being kind and put yourself first.
She will do whatever she's going to do. 🙂
I love Dr.Ramani! My narcissistic experience began nearly 50 years ago with my ex but I had narcissistic parents as well. I feel like I needed Dr. Ramani all my life! Thank you for all the work you do!
Thanks for viewing and contributing,
Endeavor to reach out to me.
The narcissist in my life was a horrible experience. The most enjoyable loving person turned into a nightmare. It blew my mind. I still can’t believe I experienced the devastation that he brought into my life.
I feel you. He keeps telling me what a great person he is and how bad I make him feel. And I don’t even know what I did.
Same
But again he is like a nice person feelong sorry for what he did...should i believe him?. Will he change for future??
Omg this. Thank you. I cried watching this. The last piece that she shared 👌🏼🥺 I’ve been healing and recovering since Dec 2019 ❤
This is so relatable. Have been gaslighted by a family member and all these narcissistic behaviors are also so relatable as I have gone thru for 20 years and consistently put up with it until one day it became so unbearable that I decided to never see him again. I am in such a better place. But this was everything that I went thru because I was too nice and naive to understand.
I am planning on going to school at a college. I have a BA but it’s not enough to get me a good job. I do not plan on telling my parents soon. I have already applied, I just need to decide where to go. I am excited for my future away from the parents.
I know at least one of them is a narc maybe both. They just have to have their narrative though. They think I should be done with school so they can have more control. Planning a trip around college open houses of course they think I shouldn’t do it. I believe it will still happen. A psychiatrist will try to persuade me as well. I want to go as I want to get a feeling for them. A feeling I can’t get from looking online.
Narcs never change. Take my word. Live your own life and let them live theirs. Distance yourself. Trust me they would NEVER change. You'll harm yourself more, mentally if you try to even have a conversation with them . Forget breaking down. So take of yourself. Always be by your side. You don't need anyone. You're enough!
When your family does it to you, it’s hard to understand it’s abuse. You grow up and get involved with the likes of your family. So devastating!
I'm happy you are wiser and free now ❤
All the best to you!
Dr. Ramani is an INFJ which partially explains her gifts and talents. She’s wonderful! My mom was also an INFJ and a natural counselor and also gifted with understanding people although she never believed us when we’d tell her so. INFJs are very humble, seeing this work as a natural duty, not realizing how special they are. They even share some of the same mannerisms. They are a rare personality type that the world desperately needs. It’s so refreshing to listen to her. ❤
One of the best lessons I learned in my journey to wholeness is: it’s not my responsibility to rescue, heal or correct others. God can use me in their journey to healing if they are serious about seeking healing. If not, then we respectfully move along and pray for them. ❤
I stayed in an unhealthy marriage for 32 years! Finally broken and realizing I needed to escape for my own survival mentally, I left. Going no contact unless it was about the children was vital. Be blessed everyone, it’s a tough road🙏🏻♥️
@Doodlebug Be strengthened and encouraged my sister! God never abandoned us throughout our journey . I am realizing how more common this is then not. We can only move onward and upward.
I left two yr relationship. Was worse third time back. I regret meeting him as have children. He swore at both once.
Amen Dorothy!!! When I met my gorgeous husband, he was quiet, reserved and charming! I had never heard of a Narc, let alone knew how he would destroy me! We were married for 35 years, but I didn't notice him "showing his true colors" til we were married for 5 years. By then we had 3 children! And he just got worse every year, blaming everything on me, even tho I had nothing to do with it! I was so devastated, until I learned that I am an Empath, and the only way I could cope was to pull away from him. He said I HAD to work, so I got a 3rd shift job in one town, while he worked a 1st shift in another town! THAT is the only way I kept my sanity! I prayed to God to either save him, or take him out of our marriage...and within 3 months, I received a call that he had passed away!!
Posted before I finished ....anyhow 16 yrs I stayed, the silence from him, shutting me out, not letting me into his heart just about killed me. I am just at the present learning not to engage, not react, it's difficult as we own property together and all the money I had was invested in this off grid property he built of course to show off all that he does...it is all about appearance with him.He thrives at having people see what an amazing man he is but I lived with him for 16 yrs and he is incapable of having any empathy, any intimate relationship with his own wife, called me his soul mate, his mates, but never treated me as such. I lost my identity, broke down mentally, physically and spiritually. He is clueless, has no emotion, incapable of reciprocating on any level ...just so sad and devastating. I am still questioning the existence of God and why this all happened ??? There are no answers.
I came to a point where I no longer will read the Bible because I witnessed my supposedly believer reading the Bible, had made vows to me before God which
he never kept true to...I thought I married a Godly man, a man of faith, a man whom I fell in love with and thought I finally met a man who fell madly in love with me..... Well I was deceived, fooled and lied to. First big red flag the night of our wedding...I was in shock....tried to make sense of it all....when I tried to talk to him about what had happened there was nothing, silence, stone walling I now understand it to be...because of the faith aspect I could not make sense of any of it....this is a man who w
"You get there when you get there" Well said. After a therapist asked me who in my family was narcissistic (that I ended up with one) it still took me 6 years to realize it was my mother. Thank you Dr Ramani we love you!!! ❤️ ❤️❤️
Narcs never change. Take my word. Live your own life and let them live theirs. Distance yourself. Trust me they would NEVER change. You'll harm yourself more, mentally if you try to even have a conversation with them . Forget breaking down. So take of yourself. Always be by your side. You don't need anyone. You're enough!
Thanks for sharing ! our earliest wounds is always by those closest to us. Very tragic
I’m 20 and my ex is 42, and I just ended it, so exhausted after dealing with him. This resonates with me so much. And the worst part is I still feel like everything is my fault. 😢
I always thought there was something wrong with me. I'm still stuck in a 46 year marriage, but I now grey stone and can no longer be reduced to tears. Thank God for Dr. Ramadi.
Me to
Run away, save your life.
I am really grateful for this episode, I have been a huge fan of both Dr Ramani and Jay Shetti and to see them in this podcast was very insightful. I really appreciate how the topic of narcissism is being discussed but at the same time, it does scare me in a way because some narcissist are well-informed and will use terms like "gaslight" or "project" and it can become really tricky. It is as if with time, as we get informed about narcissism they get better and better at hiding. My mother is a narcissist and I have been in many narcissistic relationships and I am still healing and it terrifies me to know you cannot avoid them. At the end of the day they are really wounded individuals and they too deserve compassion but it should never be at your expense
This is my life as well. My mother, sibling and current partner, as well as all past partners are and have all been narcissists. I didn’t fully understand it at all until started watching dr.Romani literally yesterday. I’m resolved to train myself to better see it and understand it but at the same time refuse to allow these toxic people to take me down a peg. I’m worthy being loved in a real way. I’m worthy of being treated as an equal and with respect. So are you. Do not give up, I know I won’t.
They can be avoided by having good boundaries in each situation. They don't like boundaries and will stay away
I agree
@Deborah Huber I am so happy to hear that! Wishing you the very best, truly
While I know emotional abuse is really awful, being abused both physically AND emotionally is worse. I say this because when you are being emotionally and physically abused, you CANNOT call out the emotional abuse at ALL for fear of being killed. It's terrifying. Also, when the physical boundary is broken, it feels like the last frontier has been breached.
Bella nova I have been there! Got out and hope you have or will too!🙏💚
Emotional and mental abuse was much worse for me personally from my mother in childhood and later in a relationship x
@Bella Nova the point she was making is that emotional abuse only has the same effect as physical abuse, or both.
I also thought that emotional abuse was not as bad as physical. This led me to think that I could "handle" just emotional abuse, and that it would not have the same impact on me as just physical.
This was a common way of thinking.
I was emotionally and physically abused at home, and when I was with a partner who was also a narcissist, the emotional abuse was far more prevalent.
I suffered more from the emotional abuse. And partly because I thought I could handle it, because the physical abuse was not constant, although the threat of it was always there. I thought I could handle it, and as a result I endured far more abuse than I ever should have.
Most guys don't come out of the gates swinging. First they chip away at mental health for a while.
The impact of emotional abuse, she's saying, causes the same trauma that physical abuse does. This is what the research has shown.
When I left my narcissist ex, his aunt said to me, "I never saw any bruises," this was a denial of abuse, because many people still think that if they are not getting beaten then they are not really getting abused. This however is not true. Constant stress will ruin someone's health to the point of death. Words can carry a threat and create immense fear.
Abuse is abuse, and if we think that because the physical barrier has not been breached that we are better off or it's easier we are lying to ourselves, and potentially putting ourselves at risk for getting into another abusive relationship, and gaslighting ourselves that we can deal with it because it's not physical. That's why it's important to recognize.
It not to take away the impact and severity of the abuse you went through. It to understand and protect yourself from going through it again with another partner, and enduring it because it's not as bad, only to find that the stress of being with someone emotionally abusing us has the same effect as physical and emotional.
Something that is ignored in the shelter system is head injury and concussion. Women who go to the shelters often are suffering from concussions and Ling term effects of this. But they are expected to behave as if they are not traumatized and not concussed. There is not recognition of this, and no drs referrals for this. Imo there should be a Dr available to do examination to help with DV victims especially at shelters.
You have my empathy, we have gone through the same types of abuse, and I wish you a good recovery from your trauma and pain. You have my support and I hope you are staying on your side and taking good care of yourself. You deserve this.
@Bella Nova I am a DV survivor myself. Not underplaying physical violence at all. Physical violence comes with all the others is more what my point was. Unprogramming the mindset from receiving abuse was and sometimes still is the most difficult part of healing. I am 25+ years out.
@Nicole Besser I think you missed my point. It's not that verbal abuse isn't bad--if someone's physically abusing you, the verbal stuff is happening too. Also some physical injuries don't heal. I've got a TBI from being hit so many times and my brain hemorrhaging. Emotional is bad, of course. But both together are next level, cuz again, you know when you're being verbally accosted, you CAN'T talk back without the risk of getting murdered. And you can't heal from being dead.
Dr. Ramani helped to educate me in narcissism and helped me leave and never go back so I owe her greatly. I had no idea what it really was. I started seeing repetitive negative, toxic behavior, devaluing, criticism, habitual liar, cheater, no accountability the list just goes on and on. It is like being in a Hell! I am moving forward at peace now.
I get it. Same
yep 100% agree it's that behaviour with that pattern to it no matter what you do - I'm so glad people are seeing and and talking about it there is more awareness now, I'm also in some face book groups like 'my red flags is a really good one when I'm struggling with old feelings or patterning hanging around' Blessings for you to keep growing blooming and healing from those past years and living through that I'm really happy to see you get out from it I wish my mum had managed to! I'm keeping my space but it's tricky when it's in the family stick to what you know is right no matter what other people say or try to convince you to do I can tell that I have been conditioned very heavily so the challenge is getting away and staying free from it happening again, Strength to You!
Every single manipulation tactic all but implies the use of the lying tactic and the gaslighting tactic. I actually dislike it a little calling out gaslighting as a manipulation tactic as it's actually an effect. All manipulation tactics will contribute to it by nature of what manipulation is. Some tactics however certainly take the gaslighting effect to a whole different level. Blatant lies that are so bad they insult your intelligence is one of them. That kind of shit will make you feel like you are in the twilight zone after a while. Here are some of the reasons they do this: To test their control. To feel superior and/or entertainment. This proves to themselves how much control they have over you. In the end, you will give up and you will not leave (trauma bonded). In the process of getting to the giving up stage, you will go through some pretty nasty emotional states ending in massive amounts of cognitive dissonance to swallow all of that. Cognitive dissonance is a trauma defense mechanism where you essentially lie to yourself in various ways so that you can bring back some semblance of equilibrium to the insanity you find yourself unable to escape from. As part of the ‘backing you into an emotional corner’ tactic. This is a tactic where you are manipulated into being emotionally unstable inevitably leading to you losing your shit. This gives the narcissist a big dopamine burst, they feel powerful and superior having so deftly controlled you and manipulated into this emotional state. To finish the little game they play, they make sure to point out how unhinged and unstable you are and suggest that perhaps you need help or medication. Of course, you will internalize all that shame and guilt and the million other raging emotions they have created and swallow all that essentially allowing them to scapegoat their blame and accountability onto you. Bring on some more cognitive dissonance and gaslighting effects. To condition you to expect less respect, and ultimately put up with more abuse. You will tire of the inevitable circular argument trying to convince the narcissist of the blatantly obvious lie and eventually find yourself challenging them less and less as you subconsciously accept the fact that if you do it will just make your life and emotional state more miserable and you will be denied the satisfaction of any kind of ‘win’ even if it is easy to disprove. This is part of the domination process and makes sure all the power in the relationship ends up with them by the end. To turn your mind to mush as the gaslighting effect takes hold more and more over time. This makes you even easier to control. Many times while easy to disprove it requires some kind of concession of some obvious truth that the narcissist can just doggedly refuse to agree with or remember (‘the intentional forgetting’ tactic and the ‘feigned confusion or ignorance’ tactics are often employed for this). So, in fact, it is not so easy to prove when the narcissist refuses to correctly remember what happened 10 min ago or accept sound logic or reasoning. You will just turn blue in the face trying. Of course, in some cases it is indisputable. A phone log or something. My experience is when this kind of stuff happens it wasn’t their intention typically, although sometimes it was. But in these scenarios, you will typically get some sort of angry ‘invalidating’ tactic, with some good old ‘manufactured rage’ and ‘intimidation’ tactics to ‘put you on the defensive’ and get you more susceptible to further manipulation. Maybe something like: “Get over yourself already” followed up by some ‘blame-shifting’ tactics with some good old ‘guilt’ and ‘shame’ tactics, like “Why the hell are you spying on my phone records anyway? What kind of relationship is this? I don’t have any privacy? I don’t know if I can do this anymore! You have major jealousy issues! You need help!” You will walk away as the loser either way. There are resistance tactics that can be used but this is a very difficult tactic to deal with and it is one of their favorites. I won’t get into the counter-tactics here though. The only way to really win in a relationship with a narcissist is to leave them and go no contact. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done Metaspyhub@gmail. com,,
She is absolutely awesome. I am from Belgium and grew up with a narcissistic mother. Later my brother and sister became too. I suffered too much because of them and not understanding their behaviour. Now i also realize we are living in a narcissistic societies. Dr ramami you are a life saver. These video's bring awareness they help us victims to understand why we have low self esteem doubt our instincts etc..
Same story
Spijt me dat te horen. Zelfde verhaal hier. Hopelijk gaat het nu beter met je.
I recently had a 7 year long friendship end with someone who was very narcissistic. Our relationship became rocky the moment I started setting boundaries and they pulled the “you don’t like me anymore” card. In the end, they took little to no accountability and they made me feel like everything was my fault. I live very close to this person and I still have to see them out in public and I’m trying to find a new normal on the other side. I still feel wounded and am trying to figure myself out after feeling so much self doubt, but I’m trying. I’m hoping I can find a decent therapist soon and heal past my situation
Which one of your prime caregivers was narcissistic ? Both maybe? Heal those mother or father wounds - often, it's about seeking the validation and attention of the father or the mother figure which WE seek in our partners.
Grieve it and become the woman you Always wanted to be. Sending you light
After going from one narcissistic relationship to the next and the next, 20 yrs of these relationships and finally I found you! Thank you Dr Ramani you have changed my life, I’ve been trauma bonded to men my entire life not knowing this all stemmed from my relationships with my parents. Please keep doing what you do, you are changing lives ❤
"How he gets into your head" is an excellent book. It explains how abusers target their victims. The # 1 rule is not to tell men your traumatic experiences or past relationship issues until you can absolutely trust them. Information is earned. These awful people are out here looking for victims, and vulnerability is your Achilles heel.
Absolutely. Going forward, I hope by now I have a grip on what red flags look like and that I will heed my intuition.
Totally
Been a fan of Doctor Ramani for some time now. I think the whole Indian subcontinent can benefit from awareness on narcissism in Hindi. Most cultures around the world confuse it with good leadership and strong personality. I really think the world will change and visibly so when narcissism starts getting exposed in different languages around the world.
@G mail close, Pakistan
Azhar where are you from? India? Hundred percent agree abt dominating people mistaken as leaders...
yes Indian family systems are the most toxic, it shows up and accepted in every aspect of culture , films , business , values
I think everyone should listen to this show if they want to have a healthy relationship. Narcs are so deceiving that it requires an expert breaking it down for you. Thank you both for a great informative session.
As always, Dr. Ramini is absolutely outstanding! She has helped me, and continues to help me heal. It's taking me years, but I'm getting there - thanks to Dr Ramini. I've never found a therapist who could help me the way she has. Thank you, Jay, for having her on your show.
Yessssssss!
This woman doesn't know me but she knows exactly what i suffered
People who have suffered due to a narcissistic abuse, may god reduce your pain and give you more power, happiness and people who love the real you 🙏🏼
Dr Ramani's two books and KZclip channel have completely changed my life for the better.
No matter how many times I hear her speak, I still learn something. Some of these concepts really need to be re-learned over and over again for those of us who have spent our entire lives under the thumb of abusive people.
I am so grateful for this beautiful human 🙏♡
Yesssssss!
And now I understand why I could never spread my wings- all thanks to my narcissistic mother. Thank you so very much ❤
It's difficult when you realize you weren't properly nurtured. We have to self nurture now. There is a Rumi quote [ paraphrasing] Your heart has to break and break and break until it finally opens.
Thank you
Fly now they’ve held back . Fly now 🕊️
My Mother and also my daughter have narcissistic behaviours, I have felt so depleted in the past and these youtube videos by dr Ramani have set me on the right course to deal and recover after a whole lifetime of struggle. Amazing, thank you 🙏
Every one of Dr. Ramani's discussions brings me closer to freedom. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Ramani. The tools you share along with your genuine care is turning my life around. Finally knowing my narcissistic partner is incapable of changing is giving me the incentive I need to practice 'radical acceptance'. I accept his incapacity to have a healthy relationship, so I will no longer waste my time, energy, and life suffering through pain, confusion, hurt, and anger. After almost 40 years while raising 3 children, I lived under the influence of an antagonistic husband, I am finally taking my own justice by living my best, healthy life to the fullest without bothering to "feed" the narcissistic ego anymore. In the past, I kept excusing his behavior, thinking it must be due to a 'cultural' difference. (He's Asian Indian, and I'm Italian American.) I should have realized long ago that narcissistic, antagonistic, and angry behavior has no 'culture." Now, from Dr. Ramani I learned how to soul-distance myself, and it feels so empowering. I am experiencing that as I soul-distance from the dysfunction, I am getting closer to my own 'soul', and being myself. Her concept of 'existential justice' is helping me to become free from the terrible and uncomfortable anger I feel toward him. Understanding that he is in a constant state of fear of losing control is a life sentence of bad karma and suffering for him that I now realize I need no longer share or be subjected to. I can move beyond it. There is a part of me that is beginning to feel sorry for him, but I am still vulnerable and must protect myself. I will continue to 'grey rock' while wishing him well without the real me, from a soul distance. I cannot thank you enough for the knowledge and concern you share with us so clearly and expertly.
Dr ramani
@blackbriarwolf we know our own story. We are not blaming, just taking our responsibility back for our own lives instead of allowing another person to control it. Man or woman need not lose themselves to another. In a healthy relationship there is mutual respect for each other. God created Man and women to compliment each other not control or degrade each other in blame and shame. Some Women lie, some tell the truth like dr Armani. some men lie, some tell the truth like dr les carter. We all would do well to listen to them.
@susan hawkes yes I find that soul distancing protects our soul. Such a valuable tool. It helps us to take responsibility for our own lives and live our healthy best
Why don’t you take responsibility instead of blaming your husband for everything. We don’t know the whole story just from your point of view. Women lie A LOT.
That's my relationship. It pays pretty well & I have soul-distanced for nearly a decade. He knows if he ever strikes me again, he will go to jail. I was raised (abused) by a narc mother, so this is familiar. My eyes are now open & I have made my choice to not run away.
I was married to a narcissist borderline. We went to 7 different therapist that all told us the same thing but he would just want to change counselors when he was diagnosed and told me it was all my fault or that I must have spoken to them and told them to say that. He was terribly abusive and almost stole my joy. I am thankful every day to have escaped. Thank you for this so I won’t make same mistake. I love you guys!
Btw my counselor told me that one of my mistakes that I was making was always trying to fix him or explain mutuality. She said that he only understands control and if he wasn’t controlling me than he thinks I’m in control and that’s when I paid the price. 😢 the problem was he didn’t want to admit he had a problem so he wouldn’t seek professional help. So it seems in these cases there is no hope and men like him will just keep abusing more. Right?
Unfortunately I haven’t dated much since.
Can you expand on some of the signs he had both narcissism and borderline? I've been interested in how both would present in someone even though I know other factors go into the final presentation...it still fascinates me so much
I now know what I have been going through in my life. I have been married for 44 years this year and never realize I have been married to a narcissist. Thank you Doctor Ramani. You have helped me more then you know.
Dr. Ramani, you're wonderful! The word validated sings to my heart! I'm in a serious narcissistic relationship that I've finally been able to end as we speak. People outside the home don't see it at all. Being invalidated has been one of the most difficult parts of the abuse.
Thank you for all your work.😅
I cry whenever I hear Dr. Ramani. She's telling my story, my Moms story. The sad thing is I can't help my Mom through her anymore because my Mom passed away. I'm benefitting though and realizing the work is me. What a treasure Dr. Ramani is; she needs to be cloned, but ok, through books and podcasts. I'm so grateful!
@K Par thank you for your sweet comment K Par, it means a lot 🙂
Your mom is very proud of you❤
Same!!
I wish I found you in 2004. I was getting out of an extremely toxic relationship then and learned years later about narcissists. It opened my eyes. Listening to this makes me want to cry and scream! This was my ex 100%!! Everything you say was him. I remember telling him there is no way I can be wrong on everything! Wow. So crazy.
When i first got started my psych degree back in 2004 i was especially focused on mental disorders and narcissism as i realized my family was deeply enmeshed and varying degree narcs and i was the family scapegoat. Dr Ramani over the years of videos and talks have truly helped me to help heal myself and deal with all these repercussions of these awful relationships i endured (which is why i went into psych in the first place) narcs also HATE psych, self help, anything that that makes you have self awareness, they will fight you till the end. Then you learn how to work solely on yourself and go on your own quest. they come back in with old antics, they attack more and harder bc their antics are no longer working on you. The separation abuse is some of the worst parts, just like with domestic violence. I'm extremely grateful for dr ramani, she's likely saved my life
She gives me a voice, she sees me. It's just so incredible to label what I went through for 39 years and say it out loud. Thank you Dr. Ramani.
47 years, then I watched videos on narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder and narcissistic abuse. I don’t think it matters if they have narcissistic traits or narcissistic personality disorder, it’s the measure of destruction it leaves in their wake. All I know is I thank the Lord for the enlightenment and turning my back on their bitter legacy. I didn’t inherit from my father: financially nor his toxicity. I delighted in learning through therapy I had bundles of empathy, but not always because I can fall short in many aspects of life but I am good enough in most of the things that matter. I find animal cruelty really upsetting, I lover opera, am disengaged from politics and I just cannot find the energy to get that engaged about climate change at 50, but I am okay to be passionate about the things that mean something more to me. It’s gratifying to know that that I am not the only family scapegoat, the only victim of narcissistic abuse. There’s too many of us but we’ are becoming more aware. The beauty of knowledge sharing is that I think there are more and more “I finally realised the truth” stories against the backdrop of “what is wrong with me or this is normal” stories. The most amazing thing about narcissism for me is that many victims actually come out of abuse asking the question am I a narcissist? I swear if I was the devil, and I wanted to cause widespread misery and destruction, I’d ditch the serial killer, psychopath model and invent the narcissist. The collateral damage is brutal and far greater collectively than the psychopaths. You can be this way and be a worshipped celebrity or media personality. It’s seductive if you are unaware because it’s packaged in a way that we advertise products: essentially, you are lacking if you haven’t got this product, or you’re not like this high achieving wealthy, celebrated person. What I learned by walking away, is that I lost an inheritance of millions from a highly successful father, but I’m free and have very little but it’s a better life. Best decision I ever made as hard as it is sometimes.
I write far too long comments on KZclip. It’s okay. So what.
LOL. Had to laugh at the “too long comments” remark because i do that too on FB or in messages.
After not being heard, being silenced for so long sometimes it takes practice and opportunity, to rebalance, to hear ourselves out loud. If raised by someone with narcissism, as i was, for first 7 years then in foster system I feel i am often learning now what could have at 5 had the conditions been not so confining and oppressive. It’s cute when 5 year olds are learning …the world is far less tolerant of learning later though in the end loves a life long learner. Being in safe places, around people who care and understand while we practice, while we catch up is a vital support for hearing ourselves. Besides the depth Dr. Ramani speaks of isn’t often expressed in sound bytes well. And with age and wisdom you have more to say…spot on: “It’s seductive if you are unaware because it’s packaged in a way that we advertise products”…a systemic condition.
I believe you're far more rich than your father ever was. Blessings upon you 🙂
Btw, I loved your long post, please keep writing them!
The best thing a parent can teach their child for survival in the matrix is to listen to their own intuition and higher self. All a person really has in this world is themselves, you want your child to be independent and to think for themselves and to be strong on their own. Teach your child to do the right thing and to be a good, kind, helpful person to others and to all living thongs and this planet. Teach them empathy for others. Teach them to think and feel beyond themselves.
I really hope & pray each day that our Canadian therapists hone in on Narcissism and help to heal from narcissistic abuse.. 7 years of searching through therapists to only end up without. Thank you Dr. Ramani for opening my eyes to what I was living with for so long. Sooo thankful I got out and away from the narcisissits. I probably would have died trying to deal with the angst and anxiety I felt. I thought I was going crazy. Thank you Jay Shetty for your daily encouraging words & posts.
SO GLAD this is FINALLY being brought to the forefront!! Narcissists are EVERYWHERE and education is KEY!! Still want to manifest an interview as a Narcissistic Abuse survivor. #DreamBig
I shared this with some friends and it sparked such a wonderful conversation that none of us ever expected to have. Thank you both for this episode, tremendously appreciative.
I totally agree "im tired of seeing the loss of potential of the people who get caught in these relationships" the light is dimmed , they become an aspect of themselves and shut down vitality spontaneity and life force , often fearing the unknown yet the unknown can often be way better than the known-blessings and light to anyone watching this
Dr. Ramani's work and words are life-changing. It took me 2 years of marriage to see the patterns in my husband's behavior (ie. arrogant, unempathetic, entitled yet cowardly, complainy, easily angered, talks down about others to make himself feel better, etc.) Our relationship is a rollercoaster. I also spent years as the peacemaker while my husband walked all over me, but once we had our firstborn I stopped enabling him. I now hold my husband accountable for his words and actions, and he is expected to do all things I can do (even if it's just out of habit and not empathy). My children are now my priority, and my husband will prove to me that he can be a better dad than his own father was to him.
I am so thankful and grateful for this AMAZING interview!!! Two of my absolute favorite people in this world collaborated on a topic/experience that I have unfortunately been through 3 times. If it weren't for both of you, I most likely wouldn't have the awareness or the capacity to recognize these behaviors/signs/recognize what was going on. Dr. Ramani and Jay Shetty, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Here's to making wisdom go viral! xo
WOW this has been so incredibly valuable, thank you so much to you both. Last year I called and spoke to the police as I had received a highly abusive text message from my bullying sibling (for no reason). It trashed me as a human being, made horrible and distressing false accusations and was an attempt to destroy my very being. I was told by police it was a malicious communication that was sent to cause harm, therefore could be classified a crime. A few days later I wrote to my sibling and notified them of my actions and that if they ever did anything so vicious again I would take legal action. Not ideal, but it was time. After 60 years I now feel much safer. I believe in standing up to bully's.
Thank you so much for this great interview! Still half an hour to watch and I've already cried several times. I just came out of a narcissistic relationship and only realised it in the end, actually not until afterwards. I found myself in so many of her words and feel understood/seen, can take the blame off me.
💜
Thank you for inviting Dr. Ramani to your podcast. I really admire her for all the research she does on this issue about narcissism. Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing your wisdom and knowledge! I have watched every single episode in your KZclip channel, and I need to say that you literally saved me from a very toxic relationship.
I’m speechless. I want to say thank you at the core of my heart to both of you, I really needed to hear all of this, that is helping me in my healing journey because I recently had a breakup with a narcissist, it didn’t last long but it is true that you loose yourself while and after being with someone like that. Thank you Jay, I love your podcast since always ❤
“The loss of human potential”. That really sums it up. Thank you for all your work in this area ❣️❣️❣️
Don't argue with a fool for they will hurt you
The best that you can do is step away
Don't tie yourself to children, they'll desert you
Fools and children live as if there's just today
Much contention causes losses and estrangement
Isolation is a sickness unto death
Loss of love is a sure pathway to derangement
So make peace within our soul with every breath
Don't get angry if you're called the worst of many
Don't withdraw your hands from all that they can do
Those who would deny your love do not have any
For the best of folks will see the best in you
I’ve read both of Dr. Ramani’s books and regularly listen to her channel and interviews. This by far has been my favorite interview she’s given. Something was extra special about her examples and explanations in this one ❤
Totally agree - I ended up taking notes bc it helped so much
oh wow I should have a look at those books' I wasn't aware!
Her begining statements of how mental healthcare ignored what was going on and laying blame on the victim are absolutely correct. Usually done in the form of saying the victim wasn't rising to the relationship somehow. I was told the things I was bringing to therapy were me just complaining. Yet I had a spouse who was emotionally immature, emotionally distant, didn't communicate, was vindictive, was emotionally cruel, twisted all of my communication, motives, and intent into something I had not said or done, could not communicate without instantly twisting conversation to be about themselves, waited years into the marriage to express chauvinistic beliefs and expectations of me, demanded my focus 24/7, did not care about me or the children, expected things of me that they weren't willing to do, say or be, believed they were superior to me, believed they had rights of lordship over me and my time, expected special considerations from me and the children, did not grow or mature, was cold hearted and uncaring, always tried to turn the rooms focus onto themselves, could not relate to or participate in social or family situations of emotional crisis or grief, refused all responsibilities or ownership, didn't have normal or mature social skills, no common sense, didn't connect with comedic situations, blamed me and others for everything they didn't like, want, or expect, dismissed things I liked, and exploited both emotional and physical circumstances to take advantage of, or revenge on me. Plus his mother is also twisted in behavior, thought, and manipulates all her children while treating them like children. Yet according to the therapist I was missreading everything. Then the psych testing we had done turned up severe narcissism, and other significsnt dysfunctional traits in ex and no abnormal dysfunctions of me. That was the end of that psychologist/therapist and ex.
Same to same...sometimes it was also physical abuse ....
But sometimes more affection lovetalking care ...tight hugs n all
@Krystal Mtn oh wow! i pretty much did exact same experience! i did too call her back and asked to meet her.. i needed to say things how they were, i both 'thanked' her for what she had brought positive (which wasn't much, tbh.. i went OUT of her cabinet in a way worst state than i entered) but clearly expressed how i felt she had missed the point entirely.. with no surprise, those classic 'cabinets' struggle admitting they may have failed you.. totally get you. !
@Artemis Tarot Readings Amen too that! I actually made contact with the Psy about 4yrs later and she refused to speak to me, along with refused to release the records and her notes. By the time I got done she knew she had royally screwed up but clearly doesn't understand the depths of what she did.
yep. i also stumbled on an incompetent psy. The aftermath of not being heard almost led me to suicide. Those matters are serious. I'm so glad you went out of the rabbit hole.. just like i did.
@Krystal Mtn WOW! That is just insane! Thank God for your dog, and that you are out of this crazy madness! Dealing with these people is so dangerous to our physical, emotional, and mental well-being. I am drained. I am on survival mode.
Thank you for your work and experience for us to learn from. I left a terrible relationship five years ago to work on and grow myself;best decision after decades of abuse. I am learning to meet my needs of love, respect, appreciation, safety and boundaries. So much joy and peace to be me. I pray the same for all abused persons that want relief.🥰
Appreciative of you both and your content. The intent, momentum, and energy of this conversation was validating, clarifying/informative, and constructive towards moving forward from feeling stuck in these relationship dynamics.
The gaslighting started with, ‘that’s strange how we experienced totally different things’ to ‘you’re confused,-need therapy, -don’t know what your talking about, -etc.’ I got to a point where I couldn’t tell my dreams from reality. To pulled myself out by journaling (sometimes 2-3 times a day) everything and literally recorded every conversation using my phone. To this day he does not know about the recordings. But I would listen to them so that I would know ‘my reality’ was Reality. Eventually, I came out on the other side so, alone, because so many others are falling for his deception, but I prefer to be alone and sane then Gaslite on a near daily basis in ways that were petty and pointless except to drive me crazy. He seemed literally incapable of knowing and telling the truth about anything. No longer my problem.
I follow Dr. Ramani. She moved me from survivor to thriver, and now I am working on being a warrior. She is one of the most beautiful human beings I have ever seen. She affects eternity - she will never know where her influence ends. Can't say enough, can't feel enough good things, can't wish enough happiness for Dr. Ramani. Thank you for hosting her.
Thirty years ago when I married the narcissist I was totally baffled, we are so lucky to have Dr Ramani explain to us how the narcissist operates and I might add so on point. Every time I watch her videos she describes my life for the last thirty years.
This is such an important lesson we all need to hear. I am an adult daughter of a narcissistic mother (the scapegoat) also the ex wife of a narcissistic psychopath (diagnosed by a therapist) but I am a now healed and empowered Empath. So, I feel that there are many Empaths who need healing, then watch out narcissistic people, we will slay!
I think that in a relationship there should be always empathy and understanding of each other, when things like not showing up to appointments or not answering your messages happen, even though they might look like small details, it means this person lacks empathy towards you. To me it made a difference when I thought "would I have done the same thing? would I have left them with no answer if I received my message expressing the way I feel and think?" and the answer was no, I would have thought of what I could say, how I could explain myself and what to say to make this less hurtful, I wouldn't have left them without answer. "would I have promised to call or show up and then disappear without explanation?" again, really not. That's when I saw I was caring and they were not. Sad to see but true. And hard to accept too. Also because, as said in the podcast, some people know very well how to mix positive and negative moments, so there will be that day in which they do give an explanation for not coming, but stay assured that next time you won't even receive a text. So you start thinking, well maybe this time they didn't have time... if this happens over and over it means something, and that something is that they have a problem and can't behave normally and have empathy for others' feelings. They know how to leave you in doubt so that you are never sure whether you should keep them in your life or not. Again, if I put myself in their shoes, I wouldn't want anyone in my life to feel doubtful about the way I feel about them or if they are worth my time or not, I want people to know I care, not to be in constant doubt, just shows how much they don't care about other's well-being. Sorry for the long comment, my thoughts keep running!!
That's exactly how my situation turned out I started noticing once I was in it. At 1st I said he had narcissistic tendencies. It wasn't clear that he was truly narcissistic until I left him. Took me 2yrs Too long... Stayed longer because I ended up having a child with him & like most tried to make things work. Until it was Clear what kind of person I was dealing with. I chose my Child & Self!!! Walking away was the Best thing I could of done.
Narcs never change. Take my word. Live your own life and let them live theirs. Distance yourself. Trust me they would NEVER change. You'll harm yourself more, mentally if you try to even have a conversation with them . Forget breaking down. So take of yourself. Always be by your side. You don't need anyone. You're enough!
A healthy relationship is reciprocating. In a relationship with a NPD, they want their partner to carry the weight. Like, the partner always apologizes; they pick up the tab more than they should; they’re the better planner in things that matter. A lot of times the NPD needs a 3rd attraction (called Triangulation) from their partner, like another partner, a best friend, the waitress when you two are in a restaurant, a pet...
Thank you Dr. Ramani for making sense of their suffering for so many ❤
I started my research on this subject 8 yrs ago. This is, by far, the very best podcast ever. And thank you, I have come farther than I thought. S0 good!
Kudos for this fantastic, comprehensive, & uplifting interview. At least, that was my takeaway. Jay Shetty, my compliments for your thoughtful, well-timed questions and your ability to know when to speak and when to listen. Dr. Ramani, I've learned and continue to learn so much from your words. It is an honor to have a ring-side seat as you evolve, fine-tune your work, and spread wisdom.
I found meditation helped me a lot ..,when you can have a sense of self mastery and gratitude for everything in your life you start to see what you truly value and the value you hold as a human being and once you have that permeated deep within you ride the waves safely to the shore you find land you can stand in you roots with confidence it’s a process but it all starts with knowing thy self and choosing to believe you are worthy of respect of self respect when you have it you do t need to get outside of you you’re all good 😊
I can’t tell you how much I loved this podcast - thank you!!! 💙
Thank you Jay! I’m interested in knowing more about how to manage having an actual narcissist as a dad but he wasn’t in the household. There’s a whole bunch of people who experience real narcissistic parents and also abandonment but there’s not that much information on how to heal when the parent was in and out of your life. If anyone has resources, I’d appreciate that! When my dad is around, it’s very hurtful to experience his personality. I know people use the term narcissist a lot but he actually is. Not as an exaggeration. All resources welcome 🧡✨
Dr Les Carter is also on tube and excellent!
@BI Biyr you are a saint!!! Thank youmuch for all this insight!!!
@thorn thank you so much!!!
Aside from Dr. Ramani, I also love Patrick Teahan and Darren McGee's channels. They're all excellent licensed therapists who articulate the effects of narcissism in such a helpful way.
At risk of being chastised or blocked, I wanted to respond to your post. Dr Ramani does have both books and her own YT channel about narcissism. But I also find the following variety of teachers on the subject very helpful. The books and YT channels of Dana Morningstar, and Angie Atkinson both have been teaching on this subject for 20yrs and started YT channels back in 2015 when no one else was focusing on the subject. So they have considerable libraries of videos. Also The Little Shaman YT channel. Christine Louise de Canonville has a couple of free downlaodable books and an international teaching practice about family relational narcissism with siblings and parents. Like Dr Ramani, all of the above have both clinical and personal experience with narcissistic relationships. Angie Atkinson (recently passed in Nov 2022) has insights from being raised by a narcissistic parent and how that altered her childhood existence, into adulthood, and into the study and hesling from narcissistic relationships. When looking for clinical insights I like both Dr Linda Martinez's healing from narcissist relationships YT channel and books. Or Dr Les Carter YT channel and books. Plus he has weekly live streams where you might get personal questions answered. Angie Atkinson's business partner Lisa Colucci has continued Angie's weekly live streams where you can also ask questions. Both those channels have their old live streams in their library so questions others may have asked can offer others insight. Also the live chat's of those live streams offer personal insights between narcissist abuse survivors.
Thank you Dr Ramani for your knowledge and wisdom. I've been able to connect the traumas in my childhood to my adult relationships. Being the scapegoat, invalidated, not acknowledged; sent me into toxic relationships. Though I understand more now, the confusion and pain are still present, and the healing and reality of it all is difficult and overwhelming. This video and others have helped me tremendously.
This is so incredibly spot on that it's scary. 😪 Thank you both so much. This episode was incredibly insightful and strangely comforting, to help me realize that I'm not "crazy."
I so love and appreciate Dr. Ramani. Her knowledgeable wisdom on how to navigate around and AWAY from toxic people is invaluable. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
My mom is a narcissist and I coparent with my ex who is a narcissist. As I am working on my trauma healing, I’ve tried to learn as much as I can about narcissism because I am so afraid of continuing to put myself into the hands of narcissistic people.
This podcast is so important! I was completely engrossed in every word and learnt so much … will be listening to it a few more times … it was so informative and relatable and articulately put ❤
Today I watched this . I shared this on my FB page . I am investing this information in my life and I will grow . In all aspects of my life . I am so grateful to be open to receive this . Thank you . I feel so empowered to make change where I can , to have the ability to choose. This is amazing for ME and my children.
Thank you Dr Ramani for enlightening most of us in this narcissistic relationship..
Phenomenal information. You've explained the issues so in depth. Thank you. I work with DV survivors and will definitely offer this video to them to watch.... Thanks again.
❤Dr. Ramani, you’re my favorite Phsychology!!! I can’t thank you enough for your time, help and give us clarity of what happened.
Thank you so so much for this.... It started making me feel like I am always wrong. The constant blame started to affect my mind, and I became to lose myself in a way that I started to compromise on anything just to make him happy. Very sad love story, unfortunately. Thank you for sharing this.
Thank you Jay for this brilliant session!! I have been following Dr.Ramani for the past 2 years and her directions and guidance have helped me understand my own traumas so much!! I was thrilled when I saw her as the guest on your show today!!! I have had my stint with narcissism for close to 3 decades(first with my mother followed by my husband) and could relate to the part which spoke about the impact it has on the survivors. I took a decision to move away from the relationship 10 years back and started working on myself. Today, I feel a lot better (a special shoutout to your Genius group 😊) however, the process is long and it needs a lot to be so patient with myself. I absolutely loved the idea of having an internal security guard!!! Today I know I am at a much better place and it gives me so much of pleasure to know that I am my own best buddy! It's a great feeling!!! Thank you so so much for showing us the way!!! Also, could you please have another session with her and elaborate a little bit more on the tools that the survivors can use to regain their trust in mankind? Thank you so much once again!!! 😊
I’ve never been more grateful for anything than having run into my narc ex fiance. It was a gift of a lesson. I was fortunate and only did two years though. Some deal with this with parents and longer relationships and aren’t so lucky. The longer you’re exposed the harder it can be to go through and get through all that. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone it absolutely shatters you as a person. But, you can get through it and learn from it and take back your life and mind.
Wonderful interview. I cannot tell you how eye-opening this conversation was for me. I already ordered the books. Thank you for lifting off a huge weight from me. Much grateful 🙏🏻❤️
Jay Shetty and Dr Ramani, two people coming together, what can be better than this! Two people whom I have religiously been following, two people who have been helping me (and several hundreds) survive, grow and heal sit together in this podcast and create magic! Thank you for creating this content. Dr. Ramani's expertise in this subject is evident in how each word that she speaks is so coherent with what one experiences.
Hope Dr Ramani, you find a way to heal the narcissist.
And Jay, lovely sweatshirt!
I agree 100% --Dr. Ramani's knowledge and wisdom on this topic is second to none.
One of the most tell/tell signs you're dealing with a Narc, is finding yourself explaining normal life things to a grown person. Like telling them how to treat you, or others, time & time again and seeing no real changes or none at all.
Thank you, this podcast helped me so much. A year ago I was gaslighted,but didn't know how to name that situation. I thought less of myself and was afraid of the next interaction with those people, who are my relatives. But now I know that they are just those people, and I now know that I am good and I don't want to communicate with them.
Thank you so much for all of your work 💜 Dr. Ramani! You're such a gift to the world.
I agree!
Hurting other people is a deadly sin and in the end the narcissists bitterness will prove to be their own destruction.
I remember when I was still living with my narc ex husband that I felt a dark spiritual cloud over my head, and all I could think was, "I need to get back to being me." When I filed my restraining order and moved out, that's when I began to heal.
I have seen Dr Ramani's youtube videos on narcissism and I finally realized what my mother had and still is doing to me. I thank you doctor for helping me make sense of narcissism. Despite keeping a distance, she will still call me and nag about things that would annoy me and blame my husband for my keeping distance with her. It is tough when family member is a narcissist and the rest are her flying monkies. I pray I could have more sane and healthy people in my life.
Love it - 'the hope needs to be in ones self, and the untold story in you ... and not in the relationship.'
Thank you so much Dr Ramani and Jay .This podcast has been so very enlightening , balanced and positively life affirming , giving creedence and support without jugement .
WONDERFUL video!!! I sought out therapy to help me leave the narcissist and stay away! I lost count of how many times I tried to leave and would get sucked right back in. My excellent therapist made me focus on myself and ONLY myself and what I wanted my life to be moving forward. It took about 6-7 sessions before I could stop focusing on HIM. When you're under the spell of a narcissist, you forget that you're a separate person from the narcissist and you have to relearn to be autonomous.
Thank You Dr. Ramani & Jay for your compassionate efforts at making us all aware of the need for attention to red flags, implimentation of serious boundaries, and self preservations. Peace and whole health to all!! 💕💪
My first husband was a narcissist and I was a true co-dependent. He finally left me when he found someone who reinforced his needs more than I did. Sadly the narcissist/codependent relationship pattern continued with my adult son and he assumed narcissistic tendencies as well. As an adult in his thirties, (notably at the same age his father left), he cut me off after I told him I could no longer afford to provide him with significant financial support once I retired and that I wanted to downsize and move to a retirement community. This broke my heart but also made me recognize the pattern in my life. I am only just learning now through therapy and research how to break my co-dependent patterns and set clear boundaries. It's very sad but I am growing and trying to learn from it. I love my son deeply but the pattern is damaging for both of us.
I worked in newborn nursery . One baby girl had the calmest sweetest look on her face . She appeared to be glad to be here. I sometimes wonder how she was as an older person. 🙂
I can't express in words that how this beautiful lady is working hard day and night and helping out people out there to get out of narcissistic relationships and all that toxic stuff people have been surrounded with for so long.... She is truly an angel in the form of human... And all the people helping people out are just amazing.... Lots of love and respect to you beautiful lady May God bless you both with happiness and success ❤️
This podcast has definitely brought to light a lot of situations that have been similar and may need more attention. Thank you for sharing!
57:20 tiger's cage
1:00:07 you become you - accepting to not bring the full of you in the unhealthy relationships (they don't get to see all of me, because they are not able to hold me safe) - neutral conversations topics
1:10:00 your story: the hope has to be in oneself
Im going thru it now knowing I was being gaslighted every time for my feelings my reaction. The disrespect or discomfort was always my fault was draining to feel like I had to apologize and they didn’t. I reached out to apologize for something they did broke a boundary I had and it was my fault in the end. I let go and im struggling so much even tho I know it wasn’t my fault 💔
Life saver! Healing from a toxic relationship with a narcissist.
I scored a 7 on the ACES intake evaluation when I started treatment. I need to ask my mom what I was like as a baby and toddler. Can’t believe I never have asked her. I have report cards that show some difficulty.
I posted a comment on another video. Looking back over my past. I definitely had at the very least some narcissistic episodes.