Everybody to Harry, all the time: "You have your mother's eyes!" Filmmakers: * cast a brown-eyed woman as the mother to blue-eyed Harry * Audience: "You had ONE job!"
God I love everyone arguing about accuracy to the books in the comments of a video where he clearly says we should separate the book continuity from the movie continuity. I really get a kick out of the “everything has to be book accurate or else it sucks” kind of people. Y’all are why I left the fandom 😂
@Jazzy Wolf Yeah and apparently they tried to simulate that, but Daniel Radcliffe had an allergic reaction to the color contacts they used. But when it comes down to that point I agree they couldv'e at least cast someone with Dan's eye-color, or made it look that way with editing. Because correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they say what color Lily's eyes are in the films, but they do make it clear that Harry has his mother's eyes, even especially in those scenes.
Whether Snape is a Hero or Villan? I think Allan Rickman actually said it best: when asked why he always plays villains he said 'I don't play villains, I play complex characters.' I don't think Snape could ever truly fit entirely in either category. He's a man who did very bad things, and very good things.
@Mr True. But I also think that being a villain is more than just asking bad choices, or even doing bad things. Sometimes people just get.... Lost. We see in the movies that as a teen Snape was a loner and bullied. The one person that ever showed him kindness and love fell for one of his tormentors. And, just like kids who join gangs to find a sense of belonging, of family, it can take you down a bad road. A dark one that you may not actually want to be on. He definitely wasn't a hero, but I also don't think he was a villain. (In movies at least, since they're the topic) He doesn't take joy in the cruelty of Voldemort, he doesn't want to kill Dumbledore, he risks-and ultimately-loses his life protecting Harry. And he protects Harry, not because he likes Harry-I think he reminds him too much of James-but he does it because he loves Lily and so is going to do what he can you protect her son. I think you're right about good not canceling out the bad, but I think 'villianhood' is more than just doing bad things. Sorry this was so long, kind of rambled.
The most evil things ever done are more evil than the greatest goods that have ever been done, are good. Bad erases your good. Snape is a villain at the end of the day. Maybe one with a redemption but still one nonetheless
I honestly didn't like Snape in the books because he was a total horse's butt. In the movies, I see him more as a very complex and complicated character.
Also, the patronis thing is something so important most people usually gloss over. Its pretty much saying Lilly is still, to this day, Snapes only good memory.
I think Snape saying “you have your mother’s eyes” was so impactful, especially to Harry. Everyone has told Harry that he has his mother’s eyes, but everyone else who said it was closer to his father and said it as kinda a way of saying “oh you’re just like your father but different eyes”, this was the first time someone said to Harry “You’re just like your mother and she was loved too. Not just for being James’ wife, but because she was a wonderful and impactful person who was loved.”
@ondine grimm First words spoken about Snape by any character in the books "Who is that teacher talking to Professor Quirrel?" Last words spoken about Snape by any character in the books "One of them was a Slytherin, and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew " It's very interesting that the Fandom seems to have eternally granted Snape his dying wish "Look...at....me" . I bet that discussions and controversy around Snape's morality will be one of the few things keeping the Harry Potter saga relevant 200 years from now.
Yes. Lily was quite popular and yet no old friends of her reach to Harry. I would love a friend talking about Lilly and Petunia when they were kid. Supposedly, Lilly invited friends over the summer, so is totally possible to have that testimony.
@Mélanie Or it could also be interpreted as Snape wanting Harry to see him (not just in a physical way, but in a "see who I am under the masks/your version of who I am" kinda way) and not just as Snape wanting to see Lily's eyes. And even if the later is true, how is that stealing? Can't a dying man (because he sacrificed himself) have one bit of comfort before death without being made into a bad person for it? He asked Harry to look at him, he didn't force him.
Drunk, violent and muggle. In top of that they were probably poor, as Petunia and Bellatrix reaction suggests when they find out where he lives (yes, he still lives at his dead parents' house. Metaphor for being trapped in his past traumas?)
They still bullied him. The broken family background just adds another layer to his tragic backstory. That's actually why Snape called himself the Halfblood Prince because his mother's maiden name was Prince and he wanted to distance himself from his father
@Urja Vyas How did you came to this conclusion? Yes Harry's dad and his friends bullied him. In Pottermore, it's stated that Sirius and James "bullied him relentlessly" and that Snape's dad often used the belt on Snape. But even without Pottermore, the bullying is explicit in the books.
The Snape vs McGonagol battle in the films shows whose side he’s on - he never fights back, and when he knows it’s time to flee he makes sure the last deflected spells take out the death eaters behind him so that she doesn’t have to fight them too
@blackdragoness21 I was too young to read beyond the narrative but that shielding scene, like a hen to it's chicks, sold me that he's secretly caring and loving Harry (and actually a good wizard despite the usual persona).
@Monique Smith I first noticed that during the third movie. When the werewolf tried to attack, Snape tried to shield the children from it. I don't remember if that was in the book, but I thought that was an interesting addition in the movie.
He also says in the books that he's been trying to save as many random people from Voldemort & the Death Eaters as possible w out revealing his position.
@Kota Mundaca He’s probably from a family with similarly extreme values to Black. The parents of Narcissa found him worthy of marrying her, so it’s probable
@LotGH well, as a big HP fan I have to say...Rowling doesn't seem to be a nuanced person herself. I don't think her narcissism takes well to justified criticism. The older I grow the more problematic stuff I see in all of here writing. The fatshaming, the hidden transphobia, the subtle or not so subtle ("Cho Chang") racism and antisemitism (goblins/Gringotts), the treatment of the house elves (slavery) and so many more super weird plot points- like Merope drugging Tom and basically raping him but we're supposed to see her as the victim and him as the horrible father...the list seriously goes on.
@Damián Garrido Arias just because you think doesn’t mean it’s true lol in BOH L&N we’re running WANDLESS around screaming for Draco to make sure he’s okay.
To me Snape is just the physical reincarnation of what a bitter emotions built up over time represents. It can change but it ultimately was structually built on the foundations of negative emotions. He's just a deep person.
Snape was a half blood child. His mother was from an old magical family, the Princes. A sacred 28 family. His father was an abusive muggle who hated magic. He went to muggle primary school before going to Hogwarts. His mother died when he was just a boy. Lily lived in his neighborhood.
One of my dearest friends was considered the best Snape cosplayer on the east coast, and as I loved both my friend and Snape’s movie persona, it was like a punch in the gut when Alan Rickman died, followed by my friend’s losing his battle with cancer. I will never not cry when I hear Always.
That's so sad, I'm sorry you had to go through it. If you want to inflict more tears... There's a song called 'Always' by Beth Crowley that is about Lily and Snape. It's beautiful,if you we want to check it out. 🤗
Yes and no, he did a great job portraying movie Snape. But is is very far off from the book Snape that has very few redeeming qualities, the movies really polished him up and took away his nasty and pettiness. Rickman is brilliant, much better then the character itself deserves.
Snape finally seeing the Lily side of Harry is even more heart-breaking because Harry was more like her than James in the first place (kind, compassionate,etc), but Snape just couldn't get past that that was James' son.
@normanpsycho this is exactly it. HP fans love to immediately forget the part where it's emphasised by multiple characters that James became a very different person after the memories in the pensive
@Chris Lyons this is a big stretch. Literally everything in the books suggests that as an adult, James was a very caring and loving man, and Lily had an amazing relationship with him. They were very happy (look at literally any memory of another character of them, or the letter Lily sends Sirius). Snape, on the other hand, became a death eater, called her a mudblood, and did unspeakable things to innocent people under Voldemort's name. It's not really even comparable.
@Chris Lyons not really, it is said that while james was a trashy person lily really didn't care about him, but by his last year in hogwarts james had become a gentle and caring person, while snape being in slytherin began being more racist, that's why he calls lily mudblood, since then lily decided to cut ties with him, snape became more sour, and his love became a toxic obsession, snape joined the deatheaters, shared ideals with them, it is not until he loses lily that he defies voldemort, i see snape as a human character, but people crucify james for being a bully during his teenage years, ignoring his change, he grew out of that, what snape had originally was love, but after their split, it becomes apparent that snapes innocent love turned into toxic obsession
@Teddy Flowers not even. It was just that Lily didn't want to put herself in the position that a relationship with Sev would have done. James was the lesser of two evils.
On retrospect, it makes sense for Snape to insult Harry about James, but NEVER about Lily. You wouldn't think too fondly over someone who bullied you, but you would over someone who had been a genuine friend.
@Andreu Martínez He targeted Neville, a pure-blood from a long line of pure-bloods. And then there's "Headmaster they are camping in the forest of Dean, the mudblood-" Phineas Nigellus Black "Do not use that word!" - Snape
@Fleet Skipper Not disagreeing with you, but Lily was reckless too. JKR has confirmed in interviews, that Petunia was not lying when she said Lily would cause mischief with magic outside of school back in PS. Also, jumping/floating off the swing set despite being told not too in DH. Also in DH, in the photo sent to Sirius, it is James who is chasing after Harry while Lily is laughing on the floor.
@Lunar Butterfly I hate to disagree, but I think that Harry had a lot of the same personality traits that his father did. He is reckless and impulsive and does things that put himself and sometimes other people in danger, although his intentions are not evil.
I think what it is about Alan Rickman, is he has an amazing ability to express what needs to be said with his micro-expressions. He knows whatever his character is supposed to be thinking and feeling and it really comes through in his fleeting micros, and his dramatic well timed dramatic pauses.
Growing up, I had a childhood best friend. She and I were "soulmates" from the day we sat next to each other on the bus. My darling best friend was murdered at 20 years old. The 20th anniversary of the day her body was found was April 19th of this year. All day, I was stuck in flashbacks of getting the call and hearing my own voice scream crying, wailing. The pain that only those who have loved deeply and lost, know. The editing for the film captured beautifully that feeling. A lifetime of memories, years of love and pain, and knowing that love will never die, never lessen.
I’m sorry you had to go through that 💔 I reacted that same way when I got the call about my dad. That scene hits so much harder now, and it was painfully raw to begin with. It’s a wonderfully crafted scene.
@kilderok Kilderok, I am so sorry. I know that feeling all too well. Remember, your best friend would also have said the same for you. She would want you to live for the both of you. Whether you go somewhere new or to the places you used to go together, think of her. Imagine her cheering you on, telling you how proud she is of you.
I always thought that Snape hung on to his love for Lily not only because of her kindness but also in penance for his part in her death. I feel that the only way he could go on required him not only to remain a double agent secretly loyal to the Order, and to do it without being recognized for it (hence him telling Dumbledore not to tell anyone his role), but also by remaining faithful to Lily's memory and never allowing himself to love again.
I ALWAYS cry with Snape's death. Alan made an amazing job in that one (in all of them but that one just breaks my heart all the time). I miss him so much
This ONE scene at the ponsieve completely redefined Dumbledore. It turned him into one of the coldest, most calculating characters in the entire series. The guy who would do ANYTHING for the greater good.
@MatthiasTheWanderer That may be but he didn't try to defend one of his best Order members? He didn't want him to have a trial. And whether he suspected he was guilty or not, it worked out really well for Dumbledore that Harry's godfather was no longer in the picture to raise Harry like he would have, therefore, Dumbledore was free to have the Dursleys raise him. How convenient.
The one thing that keeps Snape's issue from devolving into obsession is the fact that he NEVER ONCE tried to split up James and Lily, he allowed them to go about their lives without fucking things up for them. granted having a constant voyeuristic aspect to it is really creepy and it's actually painful to think about how he NEVER moved on....we see the shit like Fatal Attraction and Sleeping with the Enemy where the dumped lover actually tries to destroy your life just because you didn't pick them, and the fact that Snape had the resources to do so as a double agent who could have gone rogue made that a VERY dark possibility that he never once thought about taking advantage of. His behavior is still toxic, don't get me wrong. I mean hell, he was a complete asshole to Harry his entire life because he had unresolved issues with James that he never got to confront, but he takes it out on this kid who is literally sucked into an apocalyptic war that he never signed up for. He was protecting the embodiment and the offspring of the guy who relentlessly bullied him in school, and he exploited every moment he could to make sure Harry knew he's being treated this way because his dad was an asshole. He had unresolved issues that boiled over and he never got a chance to resolve them. I also think he did this because he didn't want to get too attached to Harry because in the end of all of this, it was a VERY real possibility that everyone fighting Voldemort could end up dead. In Snape's Case, that was true, which is why he made sure that in his dying moments, Harry had the resources to learn the truth, and got one last look at his "mother's eyes". In conclusion, he could have gone the way of a rejected stalker with magic and a cult of murderers at his back, but he didn't. Does that make him a hero? No, but it definitely makes sure that he cannot be called a monster. Just because someone has toxic traits, doesn't make them a bad person. Just means they need help and accountability. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Indeed. Severus Snape, in the films at the very least, was a good person who happened into a terrible life, had clear emotional issues without any way to get help with them, and ended up being groomed into a murderous cult. In spite of that, he carried hsi first love in his heart for the entirety of his life, never betraying her or her memory. He definitely mistreated Harry for being James's son, but also surely protected him and grew to care for him, as he knew deep down that he was very much like his mother, the only love Snape ever knew. Snape is a tragic character. Certainly not a pure villain or hero, but likely could be considered an anti-hero. He did terrible things, many times, but did evil for the greater good, in the end. Many heroes fall into inaction so as to not do evil deeds, since they don't generally see the ends as justification for the means. Anti-heroes like Snape certainly will consider the means being worth it for the ends. It's really painful knowing that he basically only seemed to care for 3 people, and 2 of him died directly because of him. Lily died because of him, and he had to kill the only friend he'd ever had afterward in order to protect Draco. At the very least, he got the chance to sorta redeem himself to Harry a bit in his dying moments. Alan Rickman is also a large part of why the character, at least in the movies, is so good. He absolutely *nailed* every delivery of lines and every single expression in acute detail. RIP Severus Snape, and RIP Alan Rickman. You and your character will be remembered forever.
This really changed my perspective of Snape. I grew up reading and rereading the books all the time, and couldn't understand why so many people completely forgave Snape just because he loved Lily. He was horrendous not only to Harry but Neville and anyone else he could pick on, and showed favoritism to everyone in his house. Him loving Lily never justified any of his horrible behavior to me. Watching this now, I realize I was looking so hard at the book Snape that I didn't realize how different the movie Snape was made to be, and it seems as though thats the portrayal that everyone sympathized with and forgave. Very interesting to see
@HBIC Olenna and about James. Its fully in Snape's character to not mess around they relationship with Lily. Snape's has bullied by James and when Lily starts to go out with James and ignore Snape because his "f" up. So only thing he can do is wait and hope James be bad with Lily. When this didn't happen, he goes full on to the dark side to compensate his hurt. With more power he would be able to defeat James if it would need, and he bothered himself with thing he can do and some company. Yeah, bad thing and bad company, but when you lost only one person that was interact with you, and that person is loved one, he would try to full the gap with any company. And bad companies is very good in finding broken young and kinda (stupid/not mature minds?) lost people. So i dont see how Snape could try to break their relationship being in character. So i wouldn't say that this was a martyrdom thing. He just doesn't know have to break them. That all. And he definitely knew that if he try, he will 100%(ish) will lost Lilly forever. He didn't have skill, but have intelligence to understand that. So he went to boost his skill.
@HBIC Olenna i see lots of things in Snape's actions that i would never do in his place. But if i ended up lost my loved one, i would definitely didn't care (if it's not treating their lives) about Harry or anyone else. Yeah, crying baby is not good, but what should Snape do when he find Lily dead, especially because of him? He lost only one person in his life he truly cares about. So in that moment its logical that crying Harry for him is just background noise that doesn't even bother him. I cant see that he calmly goes to Harry to calm him down. And that scene didn't mean that he is not love Lily. It shows that he is. And his love have nothing to do with Harry at that point. It may be bad towards Harry, but definitely realistic showcase. And that scene definitely isn't illustrates that he is Not loving her.
@HBIC Olenna word "love" can be described very different and meaning depends on who you ask. For example, i would describe (short version) that word "love" means extremely deep care about another person. And that fillings "clicks" because of my personal definition of "perfect person" + of course sexual attraction matters. And true, real love is permanent for rest of my life. No question. Of course i understand that the person that i love isn't perfect. But after that "click" it doesn't matter at all. I just want that person was save and happy. And I don't care about anything else. If ill manage to end up be with loved one, i would be happy. Of i wouldn't, ok. I would be 2 step's behind and help when i needed. But i know for sure that its impossible to "move on". I will not even try. For my own mental health, and more importantly, for another person, who can like me, or even develope deep filings (or "love" in more "standard" meaning, or in worst scenario in my definition of "love") towards me. In the end, i would just broke someone heart, coz i would never truly care about. I can imitate. And im sure that my imitation can last decades and i would be batter that majority of people, seeing and knowing how bad in relationship they are. But i would never can be able to tell from the bottom of my heart to someone "i love you" And personally i can "feel" "fake" fillings towards me. And it such bad experience. I didn't want to do it others, especially if they would have fillings towards me. So with honest look, and probably most of the people will agree, that my definition of "love" ±= "obsession". But in my case i didn't consider it bad. I fully aware of my fillings and im responsible toward all people. And this "obsession", imho, is much more batter for all, then mess around with myself and others trying "move on" like most people recommend. Definitely will not work for me.
@theEumenidesAgreed on him not loving Lily. He clearly felt something for her, but I don’t think it was love. The point about him not trying to sabotage her relationship with James was interesting, but to me it almost looks like a martyrdom thing. It might have the same end result, but the possibility that he let her go because it was ingrained in his world view that life is unfair and everyone is terrible woe is me feels more likely than “I truly love her and I want her to be happy.” Or, if I entertain the idea that he did love her for the sake of argument, what I’m left with is that his hatred for James was more important to him than his love for Lily. It’s the only way to explain how he treats Harry. And the scene where he cradles her body while Harry cries in the background? Yes, we are seeing that they both lost her. It makes sense that Snape is grieving and gutted by her death. But we’re also seeing him completely ignore a terrified, crying child and that’s always bothered me. I’ve joked that Snape’s biggest redeeming quality is being portrayed by Alan Rickman so yep on that too.
I enjoyed this episode so much! When Jonathan started explaining how an unhealthy obsession is when you try to sabotage a relationship or force someone (in this case, Lily) to make a choice, I was instantly reminded of James behavior. In Chapter 28: Snape's Worst Memory (HP and the Order of The Phoenix) he bullies Snape and uses him to force Lily to go out with him (Quote: "Go on... go out with me and I'll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again" page 597, line 24-25). I think it's a very interesting contrast considering that many people (Snape-haters especially) say that Snape had an unhealthy obsession with Lily, yet never seem to see a problem with James' behavior. If you ask me, I would say that it's James who seems to be more obsessed with Lily. When Severus lashes out at Lily and calls her a slur due to the pressure and humiliation of being turned upside down for everyone to see his underwear, he then goes to apologize to her later. And when Lily says she doesn't want to be friends with him anymore (which is fair), he backs off and never bothers her again. Which AGAIN, is a very interesting contrast to James, who doesn't leave Lily alone despite how she multiple times rejects him. I just think it's funny how no one talks about James' toxic behavior, yet have no problem bashing Snape. Just to be clear, I am not excusing any of Snape's other behaviors/problems (just as I'm not excusing James for what he has done). Neither of them are saints, and I guess that's what makes them both such interesting characters. Also, as a person interested in psychology, I am so curious about James and how he got from being a bully to becoming a decent person (if you trust what his friends say - we do not know if they're biased and/or painting James in a better light). Snape is also so interesting to analyze and he's definitely one of my favorite characters of all time!
@darknessknows1235 Even JKR admits that putting Peter in Gryffindor was a mistake. The other three treated him as a joke -- and I'm not saying he didn't give them ample reason -- the whole time they were in school. As usual, James thought he knew everything. His life and that of his family were at stake and he still smugly assumed that little rodent would protect them. In addition, I fail to understand how an author who had been a victim of domestic violence could let off with a casual remark about how he shrunk his head a bit a boy who tried to blackmail a girl into dating him by beating one of her friends. She needed to show -- not just tell -- James engaging in the sort of bravery as an auror that she credits him with. And since when is pointing our the situation created by occlumency/legillimency just a cover for "spite"? Also, if you think James Potter was such a hero, why are you crediting Snape with seeing that Harry "wasn't his father"? I understand how people don't like Snape, but canonizing James Potter is absurd.
@Linda Marion calling James out for the untrustworthy Peter is pretty shitty tho. First off, he comes off as no more untrustworthy than any of the other marauders at the time(which is obviously how he went under the radar). If anything it shows the faith he had in Peter that he wouldn't accidentally slip out the secret(since Sirius was meant to take the attention). Also, let's not defend Snape with the argument of fooling Voldemort. We know for a fact that he was too spiteful to see Harry wasn't his father.
@blah blahblah In the 6th book after harrys sectumsempra Snape has harry go through old disciplinary reports. A lot of them having to do with James and Sirius getting in trouble for jinxing or bullying other classmates. It was definitely not a snape only thing.
I'm glad to see this stated here so clearly! James tried to bully and blackmail Lily into dating him, among other questionable personality traits which were passed off as being cured when he "shrunk his head a little". He then proceeded to appoint the obviously untrustworthy Peter as his secret keeper. (Severus, on the other hand, would have died to protect Lily and by extension Harry and James.) Consequently James got himself and his wife and very nearly his son killed. Rowling also erred in not including scenes showing the later version of James being a brave Auror, so we have to take her word. But Severus, driven by grief and guilt over his own failings, committed totally to avenging Lily and protecting Harry, which required the most stringent self-discipline. He couldn't have shown affection for Harry even if he was so inclined, as it would have quickly given him away to Voldemort. That's what makes him heroic. Whether a man is a hero or just "obsessed" is not determined by whether or not you like his personality.
I totally read Dumbledore's "Please!" as kill me please in the books. He was in tremendous pain and he know that he was about to die from drinking the potion.
I remember the moment I heard Alan Rickman had died. I was at school. I just sat there and sobbed in public. There was just something irreplaceable about him. He was incredible in everything he did. I love him as Captain Brandon in Sense and Sensibility. He was not the way the character was described but I think Jane Austen herself couldn't have picked a better actor for the role.
I do feel like you're giving Dumbledore a huuuuge pass. It's more obvious to me in the books, but Dumbledore is horribly manipulative towards Snape. Yes, Dumbledore defends Snape, but it's only to the extent that he can use him. Dumbledore extracts a promise of service from Snape (in return for something Dumbledore doesn't even deliver!) and from there, Snape, together with Harry, is his strongest weapon against Voldemort. He is the only inside man in Voldemort's organisation that Dumbledore has ever had. The relationship between Snape and Dumbledore is appallingly one-sided, with Snape as a giver and Dumbledore as a taker. Dumbledore at one point explains to Harry that he didn't want to get attached to him, and with Harry Dumbledore doesn't succeed - he is too fond of Harry. With Snape he does succeed. There is no sympathy there, at all. Dumbledore and Snape have a working relationship and share an aim, and Dumbledore treats Snape like a means to an end. Snape, meanwhile, seems to genuinely care about Dumbledore (and in the books is forever angling for his approval, which he never gets). I used to adore Dumbledore, but - argh, his treatment of Snape is abominable. I loved what Alan Rickman did with what he was given in the films, but I'll forever be sad about how much Snape's character was reduced in the movies. The books have many flaws, but Snape is one of my favourite characters in all of literature. He is a person who could have turned out quite differently if he had had any kind of support, but he didn't have that: he comes from a disadvantaged background, his father was abusive, his mother wasn't strong enough to protect him, he is very badly bullied at school and neither teachers nor headmaster interfere. All he has is one friend of his own age, who can't be expected to deal with all that social and emotional baggage. He lashes out once in a moment of total humiliation and loses his only friend. For the rest of his life he just gets used, by Voldemort and by Dumbledore, and he never gets to realise his great magical potential. And then he gets killed in the line of duty before he's 40 - and thinking he has sent Lily's son to his death. Out of everyone in the story, he gets the rawest deal of all.
@SilverForMonsters Yes, but Dumbledore should have at least asked to have a trial for him. He was also accused of murdering the 12 muggles too, but Sirius was in the Order. Dumbledore should have stood by him. He really didn't want baby Harry to go live with his godfather Sirius. He wanted him to stay with the Dursleys. I think that's what motivated him to not help Sirius. He helped Snape get a trial and stood by him because he needed him to be a double agent. Ofc I'm glad he did in that case, but Dumbledore really used people... Harry included
I think Dumbledore knew Snape the best. Even when he did really brave things he where an absulutely asshole to all Gryffindor students. There are many fans who critizise Dumbledore for letting Snape teach. But i think this was Dumbledores try to give Snape a home. To let him do what he is good in. (and he can teach otherwise his schoolbook wouldn be helpful in Harry 6th year, or nobody would pass the exam) But Snape chosed to be cruel. I´m sure Dumbledore und Snape had many fights about this topic in the off. But i think there was no other choice to keep an eye on snape and actually help him (stay away from the deatheaters, so they cant twist ihm again; having a ... mission? duty? something he feels like his life have a "worth") The way he did it is for both sides shit. For those who thinks snape is a dramatic hero and for those who think hes a crazy asshole who should stay away from teenagers. So actually i think he chose the best: the middle. And why i think Dumbledore knew Snape the best: i think what u missed is, that Snape had never turned away from Voldemort, if he didnt killed Lilly. In the book version maybe he even wouldve turned in a creep, who tries to sneak on lilly, after her husband und son died. Cause he actually begged Voldemort not to kill Lilly, only Harry and James. Voldemort was even ready to do this, but Lilly didnt let voldemort a choice. So... i dont think hes a hero in the book. In the movie a little bit more...
The line that solidifies Dumbledores manipulation of Snape is when he’s convincing Snape to look out for Harry by telling him ‘he has his mothers eyes, you remember her eyes’ (or something similar) He essentially guilts Snape into looking out for Harry because it’s the only thing he can hang onto
The "after all this time?" "Always." gets me every time. I know that's a stereotypical thing but, man, it just makes me feel all the feelings. I think it's the combo of that and the scene of him holding Lily and weeping that makes it so touching.
Everything about Snape has been said to death. I will only say it doesn't matter how you feel about Snape, his movie death scene will still hit because it was Alan Rickman and he was a genius. I miss you, Alan.
I've never been emotionally invested in the lives of Hollywood actors. I don't feel a need to pry into their lives etc, but I will say that when Alan Rickman passed away, I felt it deeply. My heart ached over his loss because I have always loved his acting. He was such a great actor; it didn't matter if he played truly terrible characters, or funny characters, you bought into it because he made it real. I am still sad that he is gone and he's been gone for over 6 years now. Again, I don't know anything about his personal life, he was just such a favorite of mine to see on screen and I'm sad that we won't ever see him again in something new.
One main theme of the books is Harry's heroes being flawed and wrong and having made giant mistakes. Hagrid was foolish, Sirius was impulsive and reckless and sometimes mean, James was arrogant, Lupin was week and unreliable, Dumbledore was ambitious and manipulative. Harry has to acknowledge that, and forgive them. Snape is the opposite, the perfect balance. He is someone Harry hated, he was cruel and malicious, and Harry has to also see the good things he did. He has to see Snape the abuser, as a human, who was hurt, who loved, and who was very very brave.
@Abdirahman Warsame As a disclaimer, Lupin is my favourite character in the series, and probably one of my favourite fictional characters of all time. But the examples that others have pointed out -- of him withdrawing or not taking action where he knows there's a very clear right and wrong -- ultimately do stem from a lack of courage. I agree that this is 100% driven by his tragic condition and the traumatic life he's had, and I think that's what why we can sympathize with him, but it's very likely that other characters would have reacted more boldly or defiantly in those instances, were they in his position. Even JKR herself has referred to this as "his old flaw", writing on Pottermore that "His desperate desire to belong and to be liked meant that he was neither as brave nor as honest as he ought to have been" (specifically referring to him not proactively offering Dumbledore any info on Sirius after his Azkaban breakout). But she also goes on to describe him as "a brave, kind man who did the best he could in very difficult circumstances and who helped many more than he ever realised"... Ultimately Lupin is a hero, but an imperfect one, and it is wonderful and human and it's why we love him the way we do.
@ondine grimm But that cowardliness was driven by his shunning by wizarding society. He didn't stand up to his friends much or tell dumbeldore about Sirius because they were the few people not disgusted with his condition. When it came to fighting and risking death for the order, he did it without problem. So his cowardice was not characteristic.
God….. just….. that scene where Harry’s parents are killed and Snape just cradling lily’s body gets me sobbing every time I watch it, and now it actually hits a lot harder since my dad is now in the hospital from a brain bleed this morning, god it still hurts my heart 😭 the acting in that specific movie was just an absolute masterpiece
No one understood Severus more than Alan Rickman and he talked about the character and his thoughts in an interview and that made me straight up sobbed, I reread all the books keeping Alan Rickman's image in my head and I'm telling you this, it was a experience, I recommend potterheads to do it because you'll find so many layers and perspective doing this and you'll not regret doing it
I can't help but wonder what would have happened to Snape and Harry's relationship if Dumbledore hadn't forced Snape to continue spying. The thought that they could have helped heal each other and they never got the chance always seemed so sad to me.
Here's my thoughts on the baby Harry and Snape crying over Lily scene.... obviously, it's super sad, but what's saddest to me is not just the fact that they both lost her, but that neither one of them will be comforted. Baby Harry, because nobody's holding him and making him feel safe, and Snape because he refuses to share his grief with Harry.
Shape’s death scene is a beautiful testament to both characters. Despite Harry’s feelings towards Severus, he tries to help him. And Severus seems like he’s apologetic in his last moments for not seeing Harry’s capacity for kindness.
When I read the books, I hated Snape until the end of the last book. In the movies I felt for him, Rickman brought a whole new dimension to the character and made him so much more than just a villain.
At one point, the filmmakers were trying to fit Daniel with "green contact lenses" but he was having allergic reactions, so the producers went to Rowling and said, "How important is it that he has Green eyes?" Rowling's answer was, "Well, the IMPORTANT thing is that the eyes look like his mother's, so whomever you cast as Lily, if there's a resemblance, that should be fine."
I would love to see you guys do commentary on the film Labyrinth (1986)! It would be really interesting to see how you deconstruct each relationship along with Sarah's coming-of-age journey as well as delve into either the real-life implications of that reality or the imaginary -- if Sarah is in fact imagining all the events of the film! It's my favourite film and think it would be great!! (Another amazing favourite of mine is the film Peter Pan (2003) in which Wendy's father, Mr. Darling, (Jason Issacs) also plays Captain Hook... I'm sure you guys would have a lot to say on that front!)
i think what's so poignant about Snape's death in the film is that his last words are "you have your mother's eyes"-the entire series, that's been one of the first things people address. To me, in that moment, it really felt like an apology. Like a "i see so much of your mother in you" but also "you see so much of the world the way she did."
I just realized, Snape didn’t just have Lily’s patronus because he loved her, it was probably because his only happy memories were of her. Excuse me I’ll just be in the corner sobbing!😭
I love how Snape has a very brief look of hope and love when he gazes into Harry's eyes. Where his face relaxes and his mouth agapes in awe as he realizes Lily still lives on within Harry. Alan Rickman absolutely nailed this scene.
I feel like when he says to Harry “you have your mother’s eyes” he’s not just saying goodbye to Harry, he’s saying Goodbye to Lily and is finally letting go of the struggle he’s endured his entire life
@sabina Poulsen Exackty. In hindsight it’s clear that Dumbledore could have prevented Harry’s near death scenarios in the first 5 books, although 4 and 5 went a bit farther than he planned I think. I mean he very clearly baited Harry into the sorcerer’s stone thing first year, Gilderoy Lockhart was not necessary second year and how the actual fuck do all the teachers at Hogwarts along with a better DADA teacher overlook asking Myrtle, third year I have to admit it seems Dumbledore’s tried and idk how he could’ve prevented some of Harry’s near deaths but he didn’t have to send them on a dangerous time travel quest as well like Dumbledore these are children, 4th year he could’ve had Harry sit on the field or wade in the water with a floatation charm during games if the goblet’s oath was that important, and 5th year he just had to tell Harry hey, voldy might send fake images in your brain now since you saving Arthur would’ve alerted him to that possibility, you are taking occlumency classes to prevent that but until then don’t trust any of your dreams unless you’ve checked in with everyone involved and it’s still plausible. Also not to mention, there are plenty of people well trained enough to protect Harry with or without his mother’s sacrifice, there is no need for him to stay at the Dursley’s.
@sabina Poulsen Yes! Its sort of rare to find, to be honest. As for the movies and books, I think the order of the phoenix did a good job with *adding* some stuff and changing some stuff. Personally, it was a nice touch to have Luna introduce Harry to the thestrals, instead of Hagrid; to have Harry's possession scene (after Dumbledore and Voldemort's duel) last longer, and have him break out of it using all of the loving memories of him and his friends, by remembering that the ability to love was the main reason why they were so different from one another. He realized that all of the heartfelt moments he had ever been through revolved around love and that Voldemort could never have that. It became his greatest source of strength, as it highlighted how they are NOT alike.
@Yo momma so fat thanos had to snap twice Oh I am totally on the same wavelength as you there! I love both versions. There are parts of the books that were better than the movies and parts of the movies that were better than the books. But just because we love something doesn't mean we can't critique it when due. Same, I prefer stories centered around strong bonds that go beyond sex and romance, especially when it comes to deep platonic love like the bond between the trio.
I always watch things at 2x speed because I'm just impatient, and even without the same pacing, the "always" sequence made me tear up. It's a very special thing to have that happen without expecting it, it doesn't work as well if you're consciously thinking about it as it happens.
I was an early supporter of Snape as a kid (same age as Harry). I was laughed at by other kids for liking him. I began with the books, then the movies. This will be shared with my therapist. Take my tears.
Whether he is a villain or a hero, I'm glad we can all agree that Alan Rickman's acting is just unbelievably good. He really makes Snape even more of an interesting character that stands out, even when he has only a few scenes.
Snape was the most dynamic character written in the Harry Potter series. I think it was the mild disgust JK had for the character that made him the one with the most depth. I remembered being so upset at how little Snape showed up in the last book. Exaggerating, but it was like 300 pages of whiny teenagers in a tent doing nothing, but only a few lines of Snape at the very end. I almost wished after he looked at the pensive that the portrait of Snape stared at him and said, "Now you know." Snape bullying Harry was misplaced retribution from the times Harry's father bullied him. In truth, James was probably jealous of all the time Lily spent with Snape, that resulted in him being bullied by James. For Snape, he probably though it was looks or half-blood status. It was pain he never worked through. At the same time, it was probably torture to see Lily's eyes each day and relive every memory he had of her whenever their eyes met. The Lily of his heart was perfect, kind, and loving. She was placed on a pedastal in his heart and he couldn't really hate Harry, but he loathed Harry's father. The part of Harry that was his father was like a perversion of his perfect Lily, a black spot he wanted to rub out. Yet, he could not and would not betray Lily, ever. The meaness was a shield to keep his heart safe, the boy at a distance, and do the job he swore to do. To protect the last part of Lily that existed in the world. He could not save her, but he would save her son maybe not out of love for Harry, but love by proxy of Lily. Regarding Dumbledore, I think he had loyal compatriots, but I don't think he actually ever had friends. He did favors, earned unwavering loyalty, but the one person he did love was lost to darkness. I think like Horus Slugborn, Dumbledore was a collector of people he found useful. Snape was the only one to truly know Dumbledore's other side because they both had secrets on each other. We never know what Snape did as a Death Eater before turning and we still don't know the dark steps Dumblebore may have taken to in his past to take down darkness.
I so agree that Snape Should have fuckin played a far bigger role and taken far bigger space in the whole story, ffs! He was the depth of the series, their heart and what made them a series for adults. More so in the movies , having an actor like Rickman, it's outrageous seeing him only for 10 minutes in the whole
What always gets me in the movie version pensieve memories is the part where Lily says "Harry, Mama loves you... Dada loves you..." That was the last time anyone told that kid they loved him for at least 10-13 years. The Dursleys hate him, kids don't always recognize when a friend needs to hear that in so many words, so at the earliest it might have come from Sirius or Mrs Weasley. A heartbreaking but brilliant choice by the scriptwriter.
That scene also kills me bc lily heard james die. She probably heard the spell hit, heard his body hit the floor, and known the love of her life was gone. And she was next.
@Kitty Good catch! Maybe Harry's own suppressed memories got mixed into it at that point or something. He clearly has impressions of that night in his subconscious which surface when he meets dementors…
@Kitty 1. Magic. (Maybe a Mirror like the one from Sirius) 2. maybe Dumbledore sended Snape to rescue Harry. 3. Memories are not objectively. They are safed like the brain thinks it' real. Maby Snape found Lilis tear🤓
@Nicole Andromidas Similarly, when my son was 8-months-old I had a health crisis and literally thought I was dying (I’m mostly fine now, and my kid is almost a teen). As I lay there on the table, in the most unimaginable pain, and drifting in and out of consciousness, my main thought was that I wanted my baby so I could tell him I loved him. I wanted to be able to talk so I could tell someone my last thought was how much I loved my baby. And now I try to avoid that scene because every time it just makes me sob my eyes out because it makes me think of that day.
So i havent watched the harry potter films but this one line at 14:42 from dumbledore "he has her eyes" which mirrors the last thing snape says really has me interested in watching them. Its such a small yet so impactful moment that when i look back at snapes death scene i interpret as Snape realizing that Dumbledore was right all those years ago and that Lily lives on in/with Harry
God, I was balling my eyes out the entire video... the music, the scenes.... I haven't seen or read HP for years, but I have read fanfiction, which means that I have gotten more background of characters from obsessive Potterheads and read things that they have said, to the end of me feeling closer and loving these characters more than I would if I had just watched the movies or read the books. So the music, the scenes the histories that I have collected on every single one of these characters... I have learned to love them all in some ways, so... especially as I am a musician as well... this is all just so... heartbreaking, and painful and at the same time beautiful... I can't. I was crying the entire time...
I think Alan Rickman's portrayal of Snape was closer to what Rhowling intended, but she missed the mark in the books. She made him too mean early in the story, and focused too much on his relationship with Lily during the big reveal instead of focusing on his relationship with Harry.
Look at Snapes posture when he arrives Potter House (15:00) this dude is absoluty willed to bring the fight, in order to protect Lilly. In his dying scene he is always holding eye contact with Harry and as Harry watched away, he pleased him to watch him. Like he he wants to prevent Lilly from turning away in the face of his death. Snape is my favorite character in Potter world. Way to less screen time.
I think Snape is the most heroic and beautiful character of the Harry Potter series. When Harry and co. are doing something "heroic", they are only protecting there friends and family : I would say it's natural but not heroic. However when Snape protects them, he is saving the lives of the ones that are bullying him, that don't trust him and hate him : this is heroic. The beauty of Snape is that he would have all the reasons to join Voldemort and fight the ones that hates him, but he chooses to not follow the logic path, and rather to do what he thinks Lilly would have done. His love toward her is selfless and so deep that she continues to inspire him and make him a hero years after her death.
Personally I think Snape is simply a great character in cinema and wouldn’t want to label him villain nor hero. Can you guys please do psychology of a hero: Captain Jack Sparrow? 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
It’s always felt incredibly sad to me that Snape’s patronus is a doe. It represents Lily, but only because James was represented by a stag. Even that part of her is not detached from the love she and James had for each other and that has to be crushing for Snape
Even though Harry didn’t like Snape the whole time he still showed compassion to him as he was dying. Snape really cared for Harry for the love of his mother always
I wouldn't call it obsession as much as one sided love. Anyone thats ever been in that position knows how hard it is, especially when that person is so special to you.
Growing up in a toxic, abusive environment, it's hard to love any other way than toxic, even if you don't mean it that way. Snape never got the tools to love the right way, but he did love, is how I see it.
I think Snape is one of the most “real” characters… he’s villainous and also heroic. People are always a mixture of traits and behaviours - most of us are capable of being villainous and heroic.
Yes. Everyone is a little bit of both. If they ever expand into TV shows, they should analyze Cobra Kai, since everyone is morally gray regardless of which dojo they're in.
I think every character in HP is somewhat of a grey character because you can see the darkeness or in some cases goodness inside them peek through every now and then
harry very much sees the world as black and white, good vs evil, and snape is such a good example of a gray character. he isnt good but he isn't necessarily evil either
Snape's death scene was, in my opinion, the best of the best out of the entire movie series for Alan and Daniel. It felt so much deeper than just a death scene. It felt like everything they went through in all those years of filming together tied them together in a way that was beyond just acting.
The books made me believe that it was obsession, one the infamous “i wont let you” line and two is how he asks voldemort to spare lily, kill james and harry. Like broooo do you think after that youd have a chance. Anyways i was never able to see it as romantic after i read the books (i didint even knew how to read as i watched first the movies as a kid)
@Paola Rodriguez And you know why so many defend Snape, warts and all? Besides the fact that he is a well-written character (easily the best written in the series), he is the _only_ character who is a redemption arc that you get to see in full. You only really see Dumbledore after his, James before his, and Malfoy has the weakest redemption arc I have ever seen. Only with Snape do you see the remorse, and what he did with that remorse.
@Paola Rodriguez Anything he did to kids was necessary in order to do the things possible to set Voldemort up for failure later. He knew that he could never let the mask slip at any moment in order to accomplish what he did. And, yes, he knew what he had to do before Voldemort returned. While he may not have known the full extent of what Quirrell was doing for The Dark Lord, several knew that he would return. If Hagrid knew it, Snape knew it, too. Why else.do you think that he couldn't let anyone know the best of himself?
@ondine grimm I don’t think Dumbledore is a saint just like a Snape he’s a grey character, regulus joined a Terrorist group and like you said before only turned because of Kretcher not because muggles and muffle borns were tortured and killed so even though he made a great sacrifice he still hold his discriminatory belief not making him a good person, my point was is that Snape’s character shouldn’t be worshipped as much as he is because even though the order wouldn’t have made it without him he still bullied kids specially Harry over the fact that he looks like his father and favored Slytherins whom he knows many Slytherins have family ties with death eaters, he’s an amazing character and a very interesting one but not a good person
@Paola Rodriguez And Dumbledore only stopped his plan of subduing the muggles because his sister was killed, and Regulus only turned on Voldemort because his house elf was hurt, and so on. Almost every character's motivations for fighting on their side could be reduce to a form of selfishness. What's matter is that it's not all there is to it and that it doesn't change the good they're doing. So, what's your point? And we don't know that Lily's death wasn't the last straw. And, if it was his initial reason, it doesn't mean he didn't end up renouncing his ex-views for real afterwards, as exemplified by "lastly, only those I couldn't save" and his disgust for the word "mudblood".
Hey, I found this channel recently and I love it! 🤩 The friendship between you two in is brilliant ☺️ I would be interested to see Johnathan's therapists analysis of the relationship between Harry and Dumbledore, because it's both very unusual and I think, rather odd for a teacher/student relationship.
@Fifi :3 Just because Harry wasn't physically abused doesn't mean he wasn't abused. He was starved and never given one ounce of kindness from the Dursleys. He also had no friends growing up. Both he and Snape had friends at Hogwarts. But not once did Harry ever bully or hurt others because of how he was treated like Snape did. I'll excuse Snape's behavior in school because, like James he was immature, and probably misguided, but there is no way in hell I am excusing his behavior as a teacher for any reason. He was an adult bullying children because he enjoyed it
@bookworm598 harry came from a NEGLECTFUL home, it is heavily implied that Snape was beaten. snape also had no friends, no weasleys, no godfather, no knowledge that his parents had loved him. not to mention people respond differently to trauma. just wanted to mention that.
Harry came from an abusive home as well, wore dudley's old, oversized clothing, was starved and locked under the stairs as punishment. I don't think Snape gets to use this as an excuse for bullying 11 year olds
@Maricon Llavanes Yes, and in the books, when Lily first met Snape, Snape was wearing something over-sized and inappropriate for a boy, unlike the well-fitted shirt and pants in the movie. It's obviously his parents did not take good care for him and did not provide appropriate clothing for him.
Seeing the pain Snape felt made me cry unexpected. I would neither consider him a hero or a villain because he has actions in both. What most of all takes him away from being a villain is his good love for Lily and his feelings for Dumbledore. On the other hand he is a mean ass guy, but most of all probably out of bad life experience.
I've watched Snape's memory several times, and every single one of them made me cry. Even when it's played in this video. I can't believe that the Harry Potter franchise never won an Oscar.
Love this! Alan Rickman’s portrayal of Snape is by far my favorite Harry Potter character because he is so complex and loyal. In the end he does what’s right and the movie is flipped on its head. He spends his whole life dedicated to serving others regardless of if he wants to or not. Regardless of anyone knowing or acknowledging his acts of selflessness. While his bullying of Harry is not excusable, and may have been a mask. It was yet another masterful description. He is not good he is not evil, he is grey. To me, he is a hero. Always. Even heroes are human. Alan Rickman did a phenomenal job bringing Snape’s complexities and turmoil of harbored emotions to life.
I’m team love. Not all people who love are good inherently, but he never controlled her, never abused her. You can love without expectation of return. Well told. The best of these stories are teaching children how three dimensional people can be.
Snape didn‘t just bully the one kid. Even if you leave out all the times that he has bullied children in the books (like threatening to literally POISON Nevilles pet), you can still see in the movies, that Snape, a TEACHER, is the greatest fear of NEVILLE, a boy who‘s parents were tortured by deatheaters to the point where they barely even recognize him anymore. There‘s no excuse for making a child feel that way.
When he says, "Take it," is a great look into this character. He's dying, he can finally tell Potter everything, unburden his soul, but he does none of it. His first thought is for the mission.
@alarin612 There's also an issue of privacy here. Snape's love for Harry's mother was not something he wanted to share with anyone openly, including Harry. Especially Harry. Because of humiliation, loss, guilt, regret. Voldemort knew about it but could only be allowed to understand it as a motive for Snape hating James and then Harry. (In the book Snape tells Harry to look at him because he craves recognition, in the movie it's to focus Harry on his words, "You have your mother's eyes", as a clue that things have not been what they seem.
@Tiph JKR didn't like Snape even after she created him and realized his potential. It's not the first or last mistake she made in characterization but it still resulted in a brilliant character both in print and on screen.
@alarin612 oh true. Yeah I have a degree+diploma and speak two language my grammar in English has never been too well though, also Australian English is slightly different to American for example we don’t spell mom like “mom” we spell it like “mum” here
@helena Also, please take a grammar course or something. I'm getting tired of trying to sift through your poorly written comments to understand your point when you do things like write "mopping" instead of "moping" and write incomprehensible nonsense like "Which he didn't which second was to kill him." I'm trying to discuss this with you in good faith but your poor writing skills are making me sad.
I haven’t seen the HP films in a while and haven’t read the books since I was a kid, but I forgot just how gut wrenching this story is. I’m sitting here crying on the train! 😭
Favorite character of HP. Love that we can still debate and argue whether he earned redemption or was ever worth it at all. The sign of a great character
Snape is a logical human character. I too believe he grew up in a abusive home. With that comes a great self critical eye that makes him able to take great responsibilities. This is where it is logical that he does not like the pupils because seeing children feeling free and loved, that they does not even question their own existence as he very likely did has a boy is of course upsetting to him. When a person is used to traumas or hatred that person can take a whole lot more of it than a person who is used to a stable home because it is nothing strange to him, he must relearn to be able to fully believe in for instance Lillys love for him. Maybe he did not realize that she perhaps was interested in him and she took her second choice. To keep his emotions and wishes to himself and be able to lie to everyone is a self defensive move that a child used to threats has great ability to. He is a social strategic genius, and it is what he does best. His bullying can be seen as a vent for his frustration about where he finds himself. Why didn't I fight harder for Lilly?, why did i put my trust in Voldemort? oh i had a crappy childhood but why did i deserve that?
Imagine Snape’s relief when Harry walked in. He was probably laying there thinking he’d failed. He hadn’t told Harry and he was going to die unable to finish everything he’d worked for, for 17 years. And then there Harry was. I think he probably died in absolute peace after that.
Snape is by far my favorite character in Harry Potter, books and movie. I think Alan Rickman did an amazing job with everything. I think like anyone else, Snape has both elements of light and dark in him. I think a lot about the scene where Snape calls Lily mudblood, causing her to end their friendship, but I believe based on their following conversation in the book when he is begging forgiveness that there had been little things pushing them apart for a long time before then. I would also like to note, that while Snape doesnt seem to care about Harry (and I can certainly imagine how horrible it would be to see Harry, as someone you believe should have been your child had Lily chosen differently), but much of the time Snape ends up challenging Harry to do better, to be better than even Harry thinks he can be, and importantly to be better than James was. It was important to Snape that Harry try to follow school rules better, learn occlumency to protect himself (after Snape has killed Dumbledore this is obvious), and even protects him and his friends and allies at various times. Snape is just a very real character. It is just sad that he was abused by his father, used abused and manipulated by voldemort, and used and manipulated by Dumbledore. The fact that he could even love at all, and love so deeply and truly, selflessly, is remarkable.
Personally, the one thing that can't redeem him is his treatment of Neville in both the books and the movies. That a student's worst fear is a teacher is simply terrible
@Tribrachidium heraldicum Brilliant answer. But there's just one problem. I don't take Harry Potter seriously. Looking at a characters actions in a story and then saying what they are isn't taking something seriously. All it is is basic reading reading comprehension.
@Tribrachidium heraldicum In a normal school I would agree with you but in a school with literal manifestation of depression, having your parents tortured to insanity, a Forrest with all manners of horrors, a world where actually most of the fears we had as a kid exist in some way or another,.... In a world like this I simply don't think a teacher is the worst fear and it's implied that Snape is as much as an unlikeable git as he is in the books
i LOVED the Snape interpretation from the movies. He's the untold hero- the man who was behind it all. It has this beauty in his acceptance of Harry that makes his whole history click. Snape was the "hidden hero" arch done so well.
When i read the death scene of Dumbledore i found it hard to imagine a Dumbledore that would plead for his life with a please. That the please could mean two different things was obvious to me and the fact that Snape hesitates, his character does not hesitate in most scenes.
I love Alan Rickman. He's serious, he's funny, he's cruel. It's very easy to make people like you as an actor and be a good person but it's hard to make the audience hate you as an actor and still be a good person
I realyyyyyy need more HP content by Cinema Therapy. I wish this episode was longer... So great!! It was very good comments and reflections. And LOVED the impersonating of Snape by the end. Thank you so much for all this amazing job. I'm using you guys as a relaxing time and good company at the end of a exausting work day. (Yes, my social baterry is low and I don't want to go outside talking with anyone... Instead I can hear hours and hours of CT!! But I do therapy to get better. Don't worry. Thanks!!).
I can't believe you left out talking about the scene where Snape fights McGonnagal and redirects the spell onto the two bully teachers behind his back to knock them out and then when flying off he stops by both of them to take their wands so that they can't cause harm anymore. That's like the best thing in the film to show him to be more heroic and actually protective, which wasn't in the book.
@aexious not just that... He actually had to. He had to be cruel to specific children and kind to others or they would've reported it to their death eater families, and Voldemort would've not only questioned Snape's loyalty, but may have felt specific students regarded as a threat were not suffering enough for his taste.
My theory is that he was under orders by dumbledore to portray the most mustache twirling villain so that the kids would think hes a loyal death eater still
@Queeni someone in another comment said he wanted DADA *because* it would force him out after a year... He really didn't have a way out and I could understand him wanting one... Being there probably held a lot of truly sad and unpleasant memories... It's easy to dwell on the past when you literal live in it
Did Snape love Lily? He loved her enough to let her go and be happy with someone he hated. Her happiness meant more to him than his own. Yes, he loved her, deeply.
I think that Dumbledore’s death in the book also mainly viewed from Harry’s perspective. I know it’s written in 3rd person but we are meant to see things from Harry’s eyes, so Snape killing Dumbledore looks cold and heartless. In the film, we get to see more from Snape. Difference in mediums
After reading the Novels, then watching the series, it’s hard not to react with “ this is dog shit” constantly. Rick is an absolute excellent actor, that’s about all…
This channel has helped me appreciate films more and take the time to really enjoy them and see everything that has been put into them. Thank you so much for that it’s like a whole new world for me.
And the other part of the reason is in Spinner's End with him at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince. Amazing how Alan Rickman could pull off cold contempt masked as idle indifference with a paper flip, three words, some hesitation, and a flick of the wand. *"Run along, Wormtail"* (because you deliberately betrayed the only person I ever loved, you coward)
Snape's character and portrayal between the films and books was, like many film portrayals, quite different from the source material. But his is the rare sort where I really appreciated the differences for just the reasons you both described: it felt like he was working with a different mindset for his portrayal in the movies, but that was okay. I liked the type of character and motivations he had in the book AND the different way his character was in the movies. Different, but both were great. Very deep and complex and immensely emotional.
I think that it reads differently in the books, because it’s told from Harry’s point of view. He only sees someone he hates killing someone he loves. And he interprets “please” without giving it a second thought.
Honestly, I lost the love of my life at 22 years old. Alan Rickman's portrayal of the pain of finding Lily, ooon pooooint. When I found out my love had passed, I practically fell out of my car and just wept on the driveway, I couldn't even stand up. His pain feels so real in that scene.
@Eyden I'm so glad to hear you're on the right track! Proud of you for not giving up on life and finding help! We will find happiness again! You can do this! 💪🏽
@Powerpuff Avenger Thank you for sharing that!! I can definitely relate. ❤️ I just turned 33 so it's been about a decade, but I can completely relate to everything you explained having gone through. I also contemplated various ways to end myself, and then once I decided I couldn't, I started purposefully putting myself in danger hoping that life would take me out itself. I even drove for work at the time, and after 6 months of being a danger on the road, I quit. It took me some time to seek therapy, and tried a few different antidepressants before admitting that wasn't the way to go. ❤️ But, lots of time, some therapy, and lots of reflection, and lots of healing, things are definitely not so horrible anymore. Life has moved on, although he's kind of just become a part of me at this point.
I feel you. I was 21 when the love of my life committed suicide. I had a MASSIVE depression that lasted for a year or 2 or 3, I can't remember. I didn't have any psychological help, let alone medication. I just remember being numb and paralysed for most of the time, just sitting behind my laptop till the sun rose, wondering what would happen to my body if I jumped off my balcony or questioning what angle I'd have to stab myself in the chest to pierce my heart or how much force I needed to slit my own throat. I only found some solace in food and my body exploded with stretch marks and such. I begged for the universe to give me cancer so I could decline treatment or to just not wake up whenever I did go to bed, but I was too much of a hollow shell to do anything else. I could barely even cry most of the time. In 2 years time I tried to kill myself 3x, but I never managed, after 15 years (4 of which were after his suicide) I realised I hadn't been wanting to kill myself for quite some time. So from the age of 25, I declared myself free from dark thoughts, turning 30 this summer! I feel sorry for your loss, but I genuinely believe that, if it hasn't already, time can heal. Not cure (because that would mean erasing the problem altogether), but heal to help you process it and continue a life you want.
13:48 I've never noticed the de-aging. Also I always remember in the last book, he pleaded with Dumbledore to save Lilly only and even Dumbledore couldn't stand him.
I really struggle with Snape and Dumbledore's relationship, but my take on it is how two very traumatized and hurt men coexist. They do like each other a lot, they trust each other and have each other's backs, but they are so traumatized they don't know how to have a healthy friendship. Severus has no sense of boundaries or self esteem, he takes out his emotions on people who are under his authority, and he clings to the approval of those who he sees as his authority. (First Voldemort and then Dumbledore.) Dumbledore on the other hand tries to detach himself from everything and focus on the goal, because he is afraid of what happens to the people he loves. He believes that he ruins the lives of those he cares most about, causing them to go down dark paths, hurting them physically and emotionally, even killing them. We know he blames himself for his sisters death years and years after it happened. He feels that he hurts people most by getting close and opening up and bringing them into his personal life. Not a single person, book or movie actually knew Dumbledore, never went to his house, asked about his family, knew how he was when he was younger. No one knew anything because Dumbledore was afraid. That was his biggest weakness, he was afraid to be human, to have relationships, to let people in. Everything he did was to keep people at arms length and complete the goal. Now here comes Severus, a man he looks down on and yet also is intrigued and impressed by. He sees himself in Severus in the way that they have no one, no one that truly knows them or cares about who they really are underneath their power. I think he does really, honestly, deeply care about Severus, and it is because of that that he uses him and pushes him away. Because he doesn't want to have something with Severus and have his life torn apart because of it. Dumbledore is trying to save Severus from himself, and in the end hurts him all the same. Everything would have been so much better if they had truly opened up and actually built a relationship. But Dumbledore was afraid and Snape didn't respect himself enough to make a change.
What i do wanna remark, the Music all throughout the 7 Movies is also a getting more grand and Less Magical but more like a Legendary Story is told. This kinda also represents not only Harrys Growing, but also everyone else evolving and when it comes to Snape, there is never a very Threatening Music but also low key heroic and going from small to great. Most times silent, whenever he does horrible things or make Harry Uncomfortable. but Heroic in every other Scene, emphasizing his true Feelings and Morals.
![[CHOREOGRAPHY] 지민 (Jimin) ‘Set Me Free Pt.2’ Dance Practice](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ru78tYO_vJA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Toosii - Favorite Song (Unofficial Video) [Shot By @setwillfree]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UMIM5hJzJxI/mqdefault.jpg)
Everybody to Harry, all the time: "You have your mother's eyes!" Filmmakers: * cast a brown-eyed woman as the mother to blue-eyed Harry * Audience: "You had ONE job!"
@The Retrograde yeah fr Harry Potter is one of the most toxic fandoms out there. People need to get over themselves.
God I love everyone arguing about accuracy to the books in the comments of a video where he clearly says we should separate the book continuity from the movie continuity. I really get a kick out of the “everything has to be book accurate or else it sucks” kind of people. Y’all are why I left the fandom 😂
Also on a deper level saying a kid has a parents eyes it could mean the kindness or emotion that the eyes have inatitly, not just color.
@Jazzy Wolf Yeah and apparently they tried to simulate that, but Daniel Radcliffe had an allergic reaction to the color contacts they used. But when it comes down to that point I agree they couldv'e at least cast someone with Dan's eye-color, or made it look that way with editing. Because correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they say what color Lily's eyes are in the films, but they do make it clear that Harry has his mother's eyes, even especially in those scenes.
Hell, they could have made her wear blue contacts, but didn't. I can get those online for $40.
Whether Snape is a Hero or Villan? I think Allan Rickman actually said it best: when asked why he always plays villains he said 'I don't play villains, I play complex characters.' I don't think Snape could ever truly fit entirely in either category. He's a man who did very bad things, and very good things.
@Mr True. But I also think that being a villain is more than just asking bad choices, or even doing bad things. Sometimes people just get.... Lost. We see in the movies that as a teen Snape was a loner and bullied. The one person that ever showed him kindness and love fell for one of his tormentors. And, just like kids who join gangs to find a sense of belonging, of family, it can take you down a bad road. A dark one that you may not actually want to be on. He definitely wasn't a hero, but I also don't think he was a villain. (In movies at least, since they're the topic) He doesn't take joy in the cruelty of Voldemort, he doesn't want to kill Dumbledore, he risks-and ultimately-loses his life protecting Harry. And he protects Harry, not because he likes Harry-I think he reminds him too much of James-but he does it because he loves Lily and so is going to do what he can you protect her son. I think you're right about good not canceling out the bad, but I think 'villianhood' is more than just doing bad things. Sorry this was so long, kind of rambled.
The most evil things ever done are more evil than the greatest goods that have ever been done, are good. Bad erases your good. Snape is a villain at the end of the day. Maybe one with a redemption but still one nonetheless
I think that snape is the perfect example of just a "human character" good and evil dosent exist for him, he is just a man.
I honestly didn't like Snape in the books because he was a total horse's butt. In the movies, I see him more as a very complex and complicated character.
Also, the patronis thing is something so important most people usually gloss over. Its pretty much saying Lilly is still, to this day, Snapes only good memory.
This! It doesn't even mean that he still loves her, but that she was the only good/happy thing in his life.
I think Snape saying “you have your mother’s eyes” was so impactful, especially to Harry. Everyone has told Harry that he has his mother’s eyes, but everyone else who said it was closer to his father and said it as kinda a way of saying “oh you’re just like your father but different eyes”, this was the first time someone said to Harry “You’re just like your mother and she was loved too. Not just for being James’ wife, but because she was a wonderful and impactful person who was loved.”
@Spoons THIS IS MAKING ME CRY
@ondine grimm
First words spoken about Snape by any character in the books "Who is that teacher talking to Professor Quirrel?"
Last words spoken about Snape by any character in the books
"One of them was a Slytherin, and he was probably the bravest man I ever knew "
It's very interesting that the Fandom seems to have eternally granted Snape his dying wish "Look...at....me" .
I bet that discussions and controversy around Snape's morality will be one of the few things keeping the Harry Potter saga relevant 200 years from now.
Yes. Lily was quite popular and yet no old friends of her reach to Harry. I would love a friend talking about Lilly and Petunia when they were kid. Supposedly, Lilly invited friends over the summer, so is totally possible to have that testimony.
@Spoons That’s only a technical goof
@Mélanie Or it could also be interpreted as Snape wanting Harry to see him (not just in a physical way, but in a "see who I am under the masks/your version of who I am" kinda way) and not just as Snape wanting to see Lily's eyes. And even if the later is true, how is that stealing? Can't a dying man (because he sacrificed himself) have one bit of comfort before death without being made into a bad person for it? He asked Harry to look at him, he didn't force him.
In the books, it is revealed that Snape did indeed come from a broken home, with a drunk as a dad.
Drunk, violent and muggle. In top of that they were probably poor, as Petunia and Bellatrix reaction suggests when they find out where he lives (yes, he still lives at his dead parents' house. Metaphor for being trapped in his past traumas?)
@Urja Vyas no he did bully him.
They still bullied him. The broken family background just adds another layer to his tragic backstory. That's actually why Snape called himself the Halfblood Prince because his mother's maiden name was Prince and he wanted to distance himself from his father
@Urja Vyas How did you came to this conclusion? Yes Harry's dad and his friends bullied him. In Pottermore, it's stated that Sirius and James "bullied him relentlessly" and that Snape's dad often used the belt on Snape. But even without Pottermore, the bullying is explicit in the books.
The Snape vs McGonagol battle in the films shows whose side he’s on - he never fights back, and when he knows it’s time to flee he makes sure the last deflected spells take out the death eaters behind him so that she doesn’t have to fight them too
@blackdragoness21 I was too young to read beyond the narrative but that shielding scene, like a hen to it's chicks, sold me that he's secretly caring and loving Harry (and actually a good wizard despite the usual persona).
i just learned it from your commet. after all these years. wow
@Monique Smith I first noticed that during the third movie. When the werewolf tried to attack, Snape tried to shield the children from it. I don't remember if that was in the book, but I thought that was an interesting addition in the movie.
I wonder if McGonagall ever understood him after the war
He also says in the books that he's been trying to save as many random people from Voldemort & the Death Eaters as possible w out revealing his position.
I think the reason Snape is so soft towards Draco is because he sees how Lucius treats him. I think he identifies a bit with him.
@Kota Mundaca He’s probably from a family with similarly extreme values to Black. The parents of Narcissa found him worthy of marrying her, so it’s probable
Good point!
It’s unfortunate that so many of you think abuse is only physical
@LotGH well, as a big HP fan I have to say...Rowling doesn't seem to be a nuanced person herself. I don't think her narcissism takes well to justified criticism. The older I grow the more problematic stuff I see in all of here writing. The fatshaming, the hidden transphobia, the subtle or not so subtle ("Cho Chang") racism and antisemitism (goblins/Gringotts), the treatment of the house elves (slavery) and so many more super weird plot points- like Merope drugging Tom and basically raping him but we're supposed to see her as the victim and him as the horrible father...the list seriously goes on.
@Damián Garrido Arias just because you think doesn’t mean it’s true lol in BOH L&N we’re running WANDLESS around screaming for Draco to make sure he’s okay.
To me Snape is just the physical reincarnation of what a bitter emotions built up over time represents. It can change but it ultimately was structually built on the foundations of negative emotions. He's just a deep person.
aka the emo king.
Snape was a half blood child. His mother was from an old magical family, the Princes. A sacred 28 family. His father was an abusive muggle who hated magic. He went to muggle primary school before going to Hogwarts. His mother died when he was just a boy. Lily lived in his neighborhood.
'Prince' aren't part of the sacred 28.
One of my dearest friends was considered the best Snape cosplayer on the east coast, and as I loved both my friend and Snape’s movie persona, it was like a punch in the gut when Alan Rickman died, followed by my friend’s losing his battle with cancer. I will never not cry when I hear Always.
That's so sad, I'm sorry you had to go through it. If you want to inflict more tears... There's a song called 'Always' by Beth Crowley that is about Lily and Snape. It's beautiful,if you we want to check it out. 🤗
This is genuinely depressing to hear. I'm sorry for your loss.
Pretty sure I've met him at conventions, also a singer yes, quality human being the world's sadder without him.
That’s so sweet but sad, thank you for sharing.
Alan Rickman was the *PERFECT* casting choice for Severus Snape. No other person could have portrayed the character so well.
Yes and no, he did a great job portraying movie Snape.
But is is very far off from the book Snape that has very few redeeming qualities, the movies really polished him up and took away his nasty and pettiness.
Rickman is brilliant, much better then the character itself deserves.
Snape finally seeing the Lily side of Harry is even more heart-breaking because Harry was more like her than James in the first place (kind, compassionate,etc), but Snape just couldn't get past that that was James' son.
Harry is also said to be a clone of James but with Lily's eyes
@normanpsycho this is exactly it. HP fans love to immediately forget the part where it's emphasised by multiple characters that James became a very different person after the memories in the pensive
@Chris Lyons this is a big stretch. Literally everything in the books suggests that as an adult, James was a very caring and loving man, and Lily had an amazing relationship with him. They were very happy (look at literally any memory of another character of them, or the letter Lily sends Sirius). Snape, on the other hand, became a death eater, called her a mudblood, and did unspeakable things to innocent people under Voldemort's name. It's not really even comparable.
@Chris Lyons not really, it is said that while james was a trashy person lily really didn't care about him, but by his last year in hogwarts james had become a gentle and caring person, while snape being in slytherin began being more racist, that's why he calls lily mudblood, since then lily decided to cut ties with him, snape became more sour, and his love became a toxic obsession, snape joined the deatheaters, shared ideals with them, it is not until he loses lily that he defies voldemort, i see snape as a human character, but people crucify james for being a bully during his teenage years, ignoring his change, he grew out of that, what snape had originally was love, but after their split, it becomes apparent that snapes innocent love turned into toxic obsession
@Teddy Flowers not even. It was just that Lily didn't want to put herself in the position that a relationship with Sev would have done. James was the lesser of two evils.
On retrospect, it makes sense for Snape to insult Harry about James, but NEVER about Lily. You wouldn't think too fondly over someone who bullied you, but you would over someone who had been a genuine friend.
@Andreu Martínez You assume that what’s stated in the book is true unless there’s proof to say otherwise. Literature 101 lol
@Andreu Martínez He laughed at Hermione’s teeth AFTER Hermione set his bribes in fire and knocked him unconscious.
@Andreu Martínez He targeted Neville, a pure-blood from a long line of pure-bloods. And then there's
"Headmaster they are camping in the forest of Dean, the mudblood-" Phineas Nigellus Black
"Do not use that word!" - Snape
@Fleet Skipper Not disagreeing with you, but Lily was reckless too. JKR has confirmed in interviews, that Petunia was not lying when she said Lily would cause mischief with magic outside of school back in PS. Also, jumping/floating off the swing set despite being told not too in DH. Also in DH, in the photo sent to Sirius, it is James who is chasing after Harry while Lily is laughing on the floor.
@Lunar Butterfly I hate to disagree, but I think that Harry had a lot of the same personality traits that his father did. He is reckless and impulsive and does things that put himself and sometimes other people in danger, although his intentions are not evil.
I think what it is about Alan Rickman, is he has an amazing ability to express what needs to be said with his micro-expressions. He knows whatever his character is supposed to be thinking and feeling and it really comes through in his fleeting micros, and his dramatic well timed dramatic pauses.
RIP 😔
“You have your mother’s eyes”-it was the kindness in them not their shape or color…and in Snape’s final moments he saw that.
Growing up, I had a childhood best friend. She and I were "soulmates" from the day we sat next to each other on the bus. My darling best friend was murdered at 20 years old. The 20th anniversary of the day her body was found was April 19th of this year. All day, I was stuck in flashbacks of getting the call and hearing my own voice scream crying, wailing. The pain that only those who have loved deeply and lost, know.
The editing for the film captured beautifully that feeling. A lifetime of memories, years of love and pain, and knowing that love will never die, never lessen.
For Sev, his is even worse knowing that his actions led directly to Lily dying.
@Emma Pope I am so sorry for the loss of your father! ((hugs))
Preach my friend
I’m sorry you had to go through that 💔 I reacted that same way when I got the call about my dad. That scene hits so much harder now, and it was painfully raw to begin with. It’s a wonderfully crafted scene.
@kilderok Kilderok, I am so sorry. I know that feeling all too well. Remember, your best friend would also have said the same for you. She would want you to live for the both of you. Whether you go somewhere new or to the places you used to go together, think of her. Imagine her cheering you on, telling you how proud she is of you.
I always thought that Snape hung on to his love for Lily not only because of her kindness but also in penance for his part in her death. I feel that the only way he could go on required him not only to remain a double agent secretly loyal to the Order, and to do it without being recognized for it (hence him telling Dumbledore not to tell anyone his role), but also by remaining faithful to Lily's memory and never allowing himself to love again.
I ALWAYS cry with Snape's death. Alan made an amazing job in that one (in all of them but that one just breaks my heart all the time). I miss him so much
i cried at this video just thinking about it lol
Me too
This ONE scene at the ponsieve completely redefined Dumbledore. It turned him into one of the coldest, most calculating characters in the entire series. The guy who would do ANYTHING for the greater good.
I think dumbledore's alignment is chaotic good. no doubt about it
@Sara Sharick very thought provoking comment
@MatthiasTheWanderer That may be but he didn't try to defend one of his best Order members? He didn't want him to have a trial. And whether he suspected he was guilty or not, it worked out really well for Dumbledore that Harry's godfather was no longer in the picture to raise Harry like he would have, therefore, Dumbledore was free to have the Dursleys raise him. How convenient.
@Barbara Zirger There is exactly zero evidence that Dumbledore knew Sirius was innocent.
The one thing that keeps Snape's issue from devolving into obsession is the fact that he NEVER ONCE tried to split up James and Lily, he allowed them to go about their lives without fucking things up for them. granted having a constant voyeuristic aspect to it is really creepy and it's actually painful to think about how he NEVER moved on....we see the shit like Fatal Attraction and Sleeping with the Enemy where the dumped lover actually tries to destroy your life just because you didn't pick them, and the fact that Snape had the resources to do so as a double agent who could have gone rogue made that a VERY dark possibility that he never once thought about taking advantage of. His behavior is still toxic, don't get me wrong. I mean hell, he was a complete asshole to Harry his entire life because he had unresolved issues with James that he never got to confront, but he takes it out on this kid who is literally sucked into an apocalyptic war that he never signed up for. He was protecting the embodiment and the offspring of the guy who relentlessly bullied him in school, and he exploited every moment he could to make sure Harry knew he's being treated this way because his dad was an asshole. He had unresolved issues that boiled over and he never got a chance to resolve them. I also think he did this because he didn't want to get too attached to Harry because in the end of all of this, it was a VERY real possibility that everyone fighting Voldemort could end up dead. In Snape's Case, that was true, which is why he made sure that in his dying moments, Harry had the resources to learn the truth, and got one last look at his "mother's eyes". In conclusion, he could have gone the way of a rejected stalker with magic and a cult of murderers at his back, but he didn't. Does that make him a hero? No, but it definitely makes sure that he cannot be called a monster. Just because someone has toxic traits, doesn't make them a bad person. Just means they need help and accountability. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
Indeed. Severus Snape, in the films at the very least, was a good person who happened into a terrible life, had clear emotional issues without any way to get help with them, and ended up being groomed into a murderous cult.
In spite of that, he carried hsi first love in his heart for the entirety of his life, never betraying her or her memory. He definitely mistreated Harry for being James's son, but also surely protected him and grew to care for him, as he knew deep down that he was very much like his mother, the only love Snape ever knew.
Snape is a tragic character. Certainly not a pure villain or hero, but likely could be considered an anti-hero. He did terrible things, many times, but did evil for the greater good, in the end. Many heroes fall into inaction so as to not do evil deeds, since they don't generally see the ends as justification for the means. Anti-heroes like Snape certainly will consider the means being worth it for the ends.
It's really painful knowing that he basically only seemed to care for 3 people, and 2 of him died directly because of him. Lily died because of him, and he had to kill the only friend he'd ever had afterward in order to protect Draco.
At the very least, he got the chance to sorta redeem himself to Harry a bit in his dying moments.
Alan Rickman is also a large part of why the character, at least in the movies, is so good. He absolutely *nailed* every delivery of lines and every single expression in acute detail. RIP Severus Snape, and RIP Alan Rickman. You and your character will be remembered forever.
This really changed my perspective of Snape. I grew up reading and rereading the books all the time, and couldn't understand why so many people completely forgave Snape just because he loved Lily. He was horrendous not only to Harry but Neville and anyone else he could pick on, and showed favoritism to everyone in his house. Him loving Lily never justified any of his horrible behavior to me. Watching this now, I realize I was looking so hard at the book Snape that I didn't realize how different the movie Snape was made to be, and it seems as though thats the portrayal that everyone sympathized with and forgave. Very interesting to see
@HBIC Olenna and about James. Its fully in Snape's character to not mess around they relationship with Lily. Snape's has bullied by James and when Lily starts to go out with James and ignore Snape because his "f" up. So only thing he can do is wait and hope James be bad with Lily. When this didn't happen, he goes full on to the dark side to compensate his hurt. With more power he would be able to defeat James if it would need, and he bothered himself with thing he can do and some company. Yeah, bad thing and bad company, but when you lost only one person that was interact with you, and that person is loved one, he would try to full the gap with any company. And bad companies is very good in finding broken young and kinda (stupid/not mature minds?) lost people.
So i dont see how Snape could try to break their relationship being in character. So i wouldn't say that this was a martyrdom thing. He just doesn't know have to break them. That all. And he definitely knew that if he try, he will 100%(ish) will lost Lilly forever. He didn't have skill, but have intelligence to understand that. So he went to boost his skill.
@HBIC Olenna i see lots of things in Snape's actions that i would never do in his place. But if i ended up lost my loved one, i would definitely didn't care (if it's not treating their lives) about Harry or anyone else. Yeah, crying baby is not good, but what should Snape do when he find Lily dead, especially because of him? He lost only one person in his life he truly cares about. So in that moment its logical that crying Harry for him is just background noise that doesn't even bother him. I cant see that he calmly goes to Harry to calm him down. And that scene didn't mean that he is not love Lily. It shows that he is. And his love have nothing to do with Harry at that point. It may be bad towards Harry, but definitely realistic showcase. And that scene definitely isn't illustrates that he is Not loving her.
@HBIC Olenna word "love" can be described very different and meaning depends on who you ask. For example, i would describe (short version) that word "love" means extremely deep care about another person. And that fillings "clicks" because of my personal definition of "perfect person" + of course sexual attraction matters. And true, real love is permanent for rest of my life. No question.
Of course i understand that the person that i love isn't perfect. But after that "click" it doesn't matter at all. I just want that person was save and happy. And I don't care about anything else. If ill manage to end up be with loved one, i would be happy. Of i wouldn't, ok. I would be 2 step's behind and help when i needed. But i know for sure that its impossible to "move on". I will not even try. For my own mental health, and more importantly, for another person, who can like me, or even develope deep filings (or "love" in more "standard" meaning, or in worst scenario in my definition of "love") towards me. In the end, i would just broke someone heart, coz i would never truly care about. I can imitate. And im sure that my imitation can last decades and i would be batter that majority of people, seeing and knowing how bad in relationship they are. But i would never can be able to tell from the bottom of my heart to someone "i love you" And personally i can "feel" "fake" fillings towards me. And it such bad experience. I didn't want to do it others, especially if they would have fillings towards me.
So with honest look, and probably most of the people will agree, that my definition of "love" ±= "obsession". But in my case i didn't consider it bad. I fully aware of my fillings and im responsible toward all people. And this "obsession", imho, is much more batter for all, then mess around with myself and others trying "move on" like most people recommend. Definitely will not work for me.
@theEumenidesAgreed on him not loving Lily. He clearly felt something for her, but I don’t think it was love. The point about him not trying to sabotage her relationship with James was interesting, but to me it almost looks like a martyrdom thing. It might have the same end result, but the possibility that he let her go because it was ingrained in his world view that life is unfair and everyone is terrible woe is me feels more likely than “I truly love her and I want her to be happy.”
Or, if I entertain the idea that he did love her for the sake of argument, what I’m left with is that his hatred for James was more important to him than his love for Lily. It’s the only way to explain how he treats Harry. And the scene where he cradles her body while Harry cries in the background? Yes, we are seeing that they both lost her. It makes sense that Snape is grieving and gutted by her death. But we’re also seeing him completely ignore a terrified, crying child and that’s always bothered me.
I’ve joked that Snape’s biggest redeeming quality is being portrayed by Alan Rickman so yep on that too.
I enjoyed this episode so much! When Jonathan started explaining how an unhealthy obsession is when you try to sabotage a relationship or force someone (in this case, Lily) to make a choice, I was instantly reminded of James behavior. In Chapter 28: Snape's Worst Memory (HP and the Order of The Phoenix) he bullies Snape and uses him to force Lily to go out with him (Quote: "Go on... go out with me and I'll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again" page 597, line 24-25). I think it's a very interesting contrast considering that many people (Snape-haters especially) say that Snape had an unhealthy obsession with Lily, yet never seem to see a problem with James' behavior. If you ask me, I would say that it's James who seems to be more obsessed with Lily. When Severus lashes out at Lily and calls her a slur due to the pressure and humiliation of being turned upside down for everyone to see his underwear, he then goes to apologize to her later. And when Lily says she doesn't want to be friends with him anymore (which is fair), he backs off and never bothers her again. Which AGAIN, is a very interesting contrast to James, who doesn't leave Lily alone despite how she multiple times rejects him.
I just think it's funny how no one talks about James' toxic behavior, yet have no problem bashing Snape. Just to be clear, I am not excusing any of Snape's other behaviors/problems (just as I'm not excusing James for what he has done). Neither of them are saints, and I guess that's what makes them both such interesting characters. Also, as a person interested in psychology, I am so curious about James and how he got from being a bully to becoming a decent person (if you trust what his friends say - we do not know if they're biased and/or painting James in a better light). Snape is also so interesting to analyze and he's definitely one of my favorite characters of all time!
@darknessknows1235 Even JKR admits that putting Peter in Gryffindor was a mistake. The other three treated him as a joke -- and I'm not saying he didn't give them ample reason -- the whole time they were in school. As usual, James thought he knew everything. His life and that of his family were at stake and he still smugly assumed that little rodent would protect them.
In addition, I fail to understand how an author who had been a victim of domestic violence could let off with a casual remark about how he shrunk his head a bit a boy who tried to blackmail a girl into dating him by beating one of her friends. She needed to show -- not just tell -- James engaging in the sort of bravery as an auror that she credits him with. And since when is pointing our the situation created by occlumency/legillimency just a cover for "spite"? Also, if you think James Potter was such a hero, why are you crediting Snape with seeing that Harry "wasn't his father"? I understand how people don't like Snape, but canonizing James Potter is absurd.
@Linda Marion calling James out for the untrustworthy Peter is pretty shitty tho. First off, he comes off as no more untrustworthy than any of the other marauders at the time(which is obviously how he went under the radar). If anything it shows the faith he had in Peter that he wouldn't accidentally slip out the secret(since Sirius was meant to take the attention).
Also, let's not defend Snape with the argument of fooling Voldemort. We know for a fact that he was too spiteful to see Harry wasn't his father.
@blah blahblah In the 6th book after harrys sectumsempra Snape has harry go through old disciplinary reports. A lot of them having to do with James and Sirius getting in trouble for jinxing or bullying other classmates. It was definitely not a snape only thing.
I'm glad to see this stated here so clearly! James tried to bully and blackmail Lily into dating him, among other questionable personality traits which were passed off as being cured when he "shrunk his head a little". He then proceeded to appoint the obviously untrustworthy Peter as his secret keeper. (Severus, on the other hand, would have died to protect Lily and by extension Harry and James.) Consequently James got himself and his wife and very nearly his son killed.
Rowling also erred in not including scenes showing the later version of James being a brave Auror, so we have to take her word. But Severus, driven by grief and guilt over his own failings, committed totally to avenging Lily and protecting Harry, which required the most stringent self-discipline. He couldn't have shown affection for Harry even if he was so inclined, as it would have quickly given him away to Voldemort. That's what makes him heroic. Whether a man is a hero or just "obsessed" is not determined by whether or not you like his personality.
Finally someone said this. THANK-YOU!
I totally read Dumbledore's "Please!" as kill me please in the books. He was in tremendous pain and he know that he was about to die from drinking the potion.
Yeah when i read it i had the feeling it was something more to those words.
I remember the moment I heard Alan Rickman had died. I was at school. I just sat there and sobbed in public. There was just something irreplaceable about him. He was incredible in everything he did. I love him as Captain Brandon in Sense and Sensibility. He was not the way the character was described but I think Jane Austen herself couldn't have picked a better actor for the role.
Amen!!!
I do feel like you're giving Dumbledore a huuuuge pass. It's more obvious to me in the books, but Dumbledore is horribly manipulative towards Snape. Yes, Dumbledore defends Snape, but it's only to the extent that he can use him. Dumbledore extracts a promise of service from Snape (in return for something Dumbledore doesn't even deliver!) and from there, Snape, together with Harry, is his strongest weapon against Voldemort. He is the only inside man in Voldemort's organisation that Dumbledore has ever had. The relationship between Snape and Dumbledore is appallingly one-sided, with Snape as a giver and Dumbledore as a taker. Dumbledore at one point explains to Harry that he didn't want to get attached to him, and with Harry Dumbledore doesn't succeed - he is too fond of Harry. With Snape he does succeed. There is no sympathy there, at all. Dumbledore and Snape have a working relationship and share an aim, and Dumbledore treats Snape like a means to an end. Snape, meanwhile, seems to genuinely care about Dumbledore (and in the books is forever angling for his approval, which he never gets).
I used to adore Dumbledore, but - argh, his treatment of Snape is abominable.
I loved what Alan Rickman did with what he was given in the films, but I'll forever be sad about how much Snape's character was reduced in the movies. The books have many flaws, but Snape is one of my favourite characters in all of literature. He is a person who could have turned out quite differently if he had had any kind of support, but he didn't have that: he comes from a disadvantaged background, his father was abusive, his mother wasn't strong enough to protect him, he is very badly bullied at school and neither teachers nor headmaster interfere. All he has is one friend of his own age, who can't be expected to deal with all that social and emotional baggage. He lashes out once in a moment of total humiliation and loses his only friend. For the rest of his life he just gets used, by Voldemort and by Dumbledore, and he never gets to realise his great magical potential. And then he gets killed in the line of duty before he's 40 - and thinking he has sent Lily's son to his death. Out of everyone in the story, he gets the rawest deal of all.
@SilverForMonsters Yes, but Dumbledore should have at least asked to have a trial for him. He was also accused of murdering the 12 muggles too, but Sirius was in the Order. Dumbledore should have stood by him. He really didn't want baby Harry to go live with his godfather Sirius. He wanted him to stay with the Dursleys. I think that's what motivated him to not help Sirius. He helped Snape get a trial and stood by him because he needed him to be a double agent. Ofc I'm glad he did in that case, but Dumbledore really used people... Harry included
@Barbara Zirgerwasn't Sirius sent to Azkaban because he was believed to have betrayed the Potters to Lord Voldemort?
I think Dumbledore knew Snape the best. Even when he did really brave things he where an absulutely asshole to all Gryffindor students. There are many fans who critizise Dumbledore for letting Snape teach. But i think this was Dumbledores try to give Snape a home. To let him do what he is good in. (and he can teach otherwise his schoolbook wouldn be helpful in Harry 6th year, or nobody would pass the exam) But Snape chosed to be cruel. I´m sure Dumbledore und Snape had many fights about this topic in the off.
But i think there was no other choice to keep an eye on snape and actually help him (stay away from the deatheaters, so they cant twist ihm again; having a ... mission? duty? something he feels like his life have a "worth")
The way he did it is for both sides shit. For those who thinks snape is a dramatic hero and for those who think hes a crazy asshole who should stay away from teenagers. So actually i think he chose the best: the middle.
And why i think Dumbledore knew Snape the best: i think what u missed is, that Snape had never turned away from Voldemort, if he didnt killed Lilly. In the book version maybe he even wouldve turned in a creep, who tries to sneak on lilly, after her husband und son died. Cause he actually begged Voldemort not to kill Lilly, only Harry and James. Voldemort was even ready to do this, but Lilly didnt let voldemort a choice.
So... i dont think hes a hero in the book. In the movie a little bit more...
The line that solidifies Dumbledores manipulation of Snape is when he’s convincing Snape to look out for Harry by telling him ‘he has his mothers eyes, you remember her eyes’ (or something similar)
He essentially guilts Snape into looking out for Harry because it’s the only thing he can hang onto
Yeah, Dumbledore collects people that are useful to him. :/
I love that Snape is so hard to categorise and it's delightful that he can be both under Villain Therapy and Psychology of a Hero
The "after all this time?" "Always." gets me every time. I know that's a stereotypical thing but, man, it just makes me feel all the feelings. I think it's the combo of that and the scene of him holding Lily and weeping that makes it so touching.
Everything about Snape has been said to death. I will only say it doesn't matter how you feel about Snape, his movie death scene will still hit because it was Alan Rickman and he was a genius. I miss you, Alan.
In his very last moments, he got to look into Lily’s eyes.
I've never been emotionally invested in the lives of Hollywood actors. I don't feel a need to pry into their lives etc, but I will say that when Alan Rickman passed away, I felt it deeply. My heart ached over his loss because I have always loved his acting. He was such a great actor; it didn't matter if he played truly terrible characters, or funny characters, you bought into it because he made it real. I am still sad that he is gone and he's been gone for over 6 years now. Again, I don't know anything about his personal life, he was just such a favorite of mine to see on screen and I'm sad that we won't ever see him again in something new.
🌹RIP A.Rickman
One main theme of the books is Harry's heroes being flawed and wrong and having made giant mistakes. Hagrid was foolish, Sirius was impulsive and reckless and sometimes mean, James was arrogant, Lupin was week and unreliable, Dumbledore was ambitious and manipulative. Harry has to acknowledge that, and forgive them. Snape is the opposite, the perfect balance. He is someone Harry hated, he was cruel and malicious, and Harry has to also see the good things he did. He has to see Snape the abuser, as a human, who was hurt, who loved, and who was very very brave.
Agreed, well said and great analysis.
@Noble Skywalker 100000%
@Sheida A well said
@Abdirahman Warsame As a disclaimer, Lupin is my favourite character in the series, and probably one of my favourite fictional characters of all time. But the examples that others have pointed out -- of him withdrawing or not taking action where he knows there's a very clear right and wrong -- ultimately do stem from a lack of courage. I agree that this is 100% driven by his tragic condition and the traumatic life he's had, and I think that's what why we can sympathize with him, but it's very likely that other characters would have reacted more boldly or defiantly in those instances, were they in his position.
Even JKR herself has referred to this as "his old flaw", writing on Pottermore that "His desperate desire to belong and to be liked meant that he was neither as brave nor as honest as he ought to have been" (specifically referring to him not proactively offering Dumbledore any info on Sirius after his Azkaban breakout). But she also goes on to describe him as "a brave, kind man who did the best he could in very difficult circumstances and who helped many more than he ever realised"... Ultimately Lupin is a hero, but an imperfect one, and it is wonderful and human and it's why we love him the way we do.
@ondine grimm But that cowardliness was driven by his shunning by wizarding society. He didn't stand up to his friends much or tell dumbeldore about Sirius because they were the few people not disgusted with his condition. When it came to fighting and risking death for the order, he did it without problem. So his cowardice was not characteristic.
God….. just….. that scene where Harry’s parents are killed and Snape just cradling lily’s body gets me sobbing every time I watch it, and now it actually hits a lot harder since my dad is now in the hospital from a brain bleed this morning, god it still hurts my heart 😭 the acting in that specific movie was just an absolute masterpiece
No one understood Severus more than Alan Rickman and he talked about the character and his thoughts in an interview and that made me straight up sobbed, I reread all the books keeping Alan Rickman's image in my head and I'm telling you this, it was a experience, I recommend potterheads to do it because you'll find so many layers and perspective doing this and you'll not regret doing it
I can't help but wonder what would have happened to Snape and Harry's relationship if Dumbledore hadn't forced Snape to continue spying. The thought that they could have helped heal each other and they never got the chance always seemed so sad to me.
Here's my thoughts on the baby Harry and Snape crying over Lily scene.... obviously, it's super sad, but what's saddest to me is not just the fact that they both lost her, but that neither one of them will be comforted. Baby Harry, because nobody's holding him and making him feel safe, and Snape because he refuses to share his grief with Harry.
Shape’s death scene is a beautiful testament to both characters.
Despite Harry’s feelings towards Severus, he tries to help him.
And Severus seems like he’s apologetic in his last moments for not seeing Harry’s capacity for kindness.
When I read the books, I hated Snape until the end of the last book. In the movies I felt for him, Rickman brought a whole new dimension to the character and made him so much more than just a villain.
@zerere
No he wasn't obsessed or creepy. Mentioned one from books 📖 I dare you
@محمد القحطاني in the books he’s vile, i would be worried for harry if he looked like lily
At one point, the filmmakers were trying to fit Daniel with "green contact lenses" but he was having allergic reactions, so the producers went to Rowling and said, "How important is it that he has Green eyes?"
Rowling's answer was, "Well, the IMPORTANT thing is that the eyes look like his mother's, so whomever you cast as Lily, if there's a resemblance, that should be fine."
I would love to see you guys do commentary on the film Labyrinth (1986)! It would be really interesting to see how you deconstruct each relationship along with Sarah's coming-of-age journey as well as delve into either the real-life implications of that reality or the imaginary -- if Sarah is in fact imagining all the events of the film! It's my favourite film and think it would be great!! (Another amazing favourite of mine is the film Peter Pan (2003) in which Wendy's father, Mr. Darling, (Jason Issacs) also plays Captain Hook... I'm sure you guys would have a lot to say on that front!)
I watched Labyrinth the other day, it's kind of awful, TBH. I still love it tho.
David Bowie in those tights made me come of age too 🤣🤣🤣🐍
i think what's so poignant about Snape's death in the film is that his last words are "you have your mother's eyes"-the entire series, that's been one of the first things people address. To me, in that moment, it really felt like an apology. Like a "i see so much of your mother in you" but also "you see so much of the world the way she did."
I just realized, Snape didn’t just have Lily’s patronus because he loved her, it was probably because his only happy memories were of her. Excuse me I’ll just be in the corner sobbing!😭
I love how Snape has a very brief look of hope and love when he gazes into Harry's eyes. Where his face relaxes and his mouth agapes in awe as he realizes Lily still lives on within Harry. Alan Rickman absolutely nailed this scene.
I feel like when he says to Harry “you have your mother’s eyes” he’s not just saying goodbye to Harry, he’s saying Goodbye to Lily and is finally letting go of the struggle he’s endured his entire life
I think also he wanted the last thing he saw in life was Lily's beautiful eyes.
@Gabriella Schakett Yep... Dumbledore is calculating and manipulative AF
@sabina Poulsen Exackty. In hindsight it’s clear that Dumbledore could have prevented Harry’s near death scenarios in the first 5 books, although 4 and 5 went a bit farther than he planned I think. I mean he very clearly baited Harry into the sorcerer’s stone thing first year, Gilderoy Lockhart was not necessary second year and how the actual fuck do all the teachers at Hogwarts along with a better DADA teacher overlook asking Myrtle, third year I have to admit it seems Dumbledore’s tried and idk how he could’ve prevented some of Harry’s near deaths but he didn’t have to send them on a dangerous time travel quest as well like Dumbledore these are children, 4th year he could’ve had Harry sit on the field or wade in the water with a floatation charm during games if the goblet’s oath was that important, and 5th year he just had to tell Harry hey, voldy might send fake images in your brain now since you saving Arthur would’ve alerted him to that possibility, you are taking occlumency classes to prevent that but until then don’t trust any of your dreams unless you’ve checked in with everyone involved and it’s still plausible. Also not to mention, there are plenty of people well trained enough to protect Harry with or without his mother’s sacrifice, there is no need for him to stay at the Dursley’s.
@sabina Poulsen Yes! Its sort of rare to find, to be honest. As for the movies and books, I think the order of the phoenix did a good job with *adding* some stuff and changing some stuff. Personally, it was a nice touch to have Luna introduce Harry to the thestrals, instead of Hagrid; to have Harry's possession scene (after Dumbledore and Voldemort's duel) last longer, and have him break out of it using all of the loving memories of him and his friends, by remembering that the ability to love was the main reason why they were so different from one another. He realized that all of the heartfelt moments he had ever been through revolved around love and that Voldemort could never have that. It became his greatest source of strength, as it highlighted how they are NOT alike.
@Yo momma so fat thanos had to snap twice Oh I am totally on the same wavelength as you there!
I love both versions. There are parts of the books that were better than the movies and parts of the movies that were better than the books.
But just because we love something doesn't mean we can't critique it when due.
Same, I prefer stories centered around strong bonds that go beyond sex and romance, especially when it comes to deep platonic love like the bond between the trio.
I always watch things at 2x speed because I'm just impatient, and even without the same pacing, the "always" sequence made me tear up. It's a very special thing to have that happen without expecting it, it doesn't work as well if you're consciously thinking about it as it happens.
I was an early supporter of Snape as a kid (same age as Harry). I was laughed at by other kids for liking him. I began with the books, then the movies. This will be shared with my therapist. Take my tears.
Whether he is a villain or a hero, I'm glad we can all agree that Alan Rickman's acting is just unbelievably good. He really makes Snape even more of an interesting character that stands out, even when he has only a few scenes.
When Alan Rickman says: “Always….” It gets me every time….. AMAZING acting
what does he mean when he said that?
Snape was the most dynamic character written in the Harry Potter series. I think it was the mild disgust JK had for the character that made him the one with the most depth. I remembered being so upset at how little Snape showed up in the last book. Exaggerating, but it was like 300 pages of whiny teenagers in a tent doing nothing, but only a few lines of Snape at the very end. I almost wished after he looked at the pensive that the portrait of Snape stared at him and said, "Now you know." Snape bullying Harry was misplaced retribution from the times Harry's father bullied him. In truth, James was probably jealous of all the time Lily spent with Snape, that resulted in him being bullied by James. For Snape, he probably though it was looks or half-blood status. It was pain he never worked through. At the same time, it was probably torture to see Lily's eyes each day and relive every memory he had of her whenever their eyes met. The Lily of his heart was perfect, kind, and loving. She was placed on a pedastal in his heart and he couldn't really hate Harry, but he loathed Harry's father. The part of Harry that was his father was like a perversion of his perfect Lily, a black spot he wanted to rub out. Yet, he could not and would not betray Lily, ever. The meaness was a shield to keep his heart safe, the boy at a distance, and do the job he swore to do. To protect the last part of Lily that existed in the world. He could not save her, but he would save her son maybe not out of love for Harry, but love by proxy of Lily. Regarding Dumbledore, I think he had loyal compatriots, but I don't think he actually ever had friends. He did favors, earned unwavering loyalty, but the one person he did love was lost to darkness. I think like Horus Slugborn, Dumbledore was a collector of people he found useful. Snape was the only one to truly know Dumbledore's other side because they both had secrets on each other. We never know what Snape did as a Death Eater before turning and we still don't know the dark steps Dumblebore may have taken to in his past to take down darkness.
I so agree that Snape Should have fuckin played a far bigger role and taken far bigger space in the whole story, ffs! He was the depth of the series, their heart and what made them a series for adults. More so in the movies , having an actor like Rickman, it's outrageous seeing him only for 10 minutes in the whole
What always gets me in the movie version pensieve memories is the part where Lily says "Harry, Mama loves you... Dada loves you..." That was the last time anyone told that kid they loved him for at least 10-13 years. The Dursleys hate him, kids don't always recognize when a friend needs to hear that in so many words, so at the earliest it might have come from Sirius or Mrs Weasley. A heartbreaking but brilliant choice by the scriptwriter.
That scene also kills me bc lily heard james die. She probably heard the spell hit, heard his body hit the floor, and known the love of her life was gone. And she was next.
@Arosukir6 well heck, now I'm openly sobbing. BRB gonna go hug my loved ones extra tight
@Kitty Good catch! Maybe Harry's own suppressed memories got mixed into it at that point or something. He clearly has impressions of that night in his subconscious which surface when he meets dementors…
@Kitty 1. Magic. (Maybe a Mirror like the one from Sirius)
2. maybe Dumbledore sended Snape to rescue Harry.
3. Memories are not objectively. They are safed like the brain thinks it' real. Maby Snape found Lilis tear🤓
@Nicole Andromidas Similarly, when my son was 8-months-old I had a health crisis and literally thought I was dying (I’m mostly fine now, and my kid is almost a teen). As I lay there on the table, in the most unimaginable pain, and drifting in and out of consciousness, my main thought was that I wanted my baby so I could tell him I loved him. I wanted to be able to talk so I could tell someone my last thought was how much I loved my baby.
And now I try to avoid that scene because every time it just makes me sob my eyes out because it makes me think of that day.
So i havent watched the harry potter films but this one line at 14:42 from dumbledore "he has her eyes" which mirrors the last thing snape says really has me interested in watching them. Its such a small yet so impactful moment that when i look back at snapes death scene i interpret as Snape realizing that Dumbledore was right all those years ago and that Lily lives on in/with Harry
God, I was balling my eyes out the entire video... the music, the scenes.... I haven't seen or read HP for years, but I have read fanfiction, which means that I have gotten more background of characters from obsessive Potterheads and read things that they have said, to the end of me feeling closer and loving these characters more than I would if I had just watched the movies or read the books. So the music, the scenes the histories that I have collected on every single one of these characters... I have learned to love them all in some ways, so... especially as I am a musician as well... this is all just so... heartbreaking, and painful and at the same time beautiful... I can't. I was crying the entire time...
I think Alan Rickman's portrayal of Snape was closer to what Rhowling intended, but she missed the mark in the books. She made him too mean early in the story, and focused too much on his relationship with Lily during the big reveal instead of focusing on his relationship with Harry.
Look at Snapes posture when he arrives Potter House (15:00) this dude is absoluty willed to bring the fight, in order to protect Lilly.
In his dying scene he is always holding eye contact with Harry and as Harry watched away, he pleased him to watch him. Like he he wants to prevent Lilly from turning away in the face of his death.
Snape is my favorite character in Potter world. Way to less screen time.
I think Snape is the most heroic and beautiful character of the Harry Potter series. When Harry and co. are doing something "heroic", they are only protecting there friends and family : I would say it's natural but not heroic. However when Snape protects them, he is saving the lives of the ones that are bullying him, that don't trust him and hate him : this is heroic.
The beauty of Snape is that he would have all the reasons to join Voldemort and fight the ones that hates him, but he chooses to not follow the logic path, and rather to do what he thinks Lilly would have done. His love toward her is selfless and so deep that she continues to inspire him and make him a hero years after her death.
Personally I think Snape is simply a great character in cinema and wouldn’t want to label him villain nor hero. Can you guys please do psychology of a hero: Captain Jack Sparrow? 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
@Mikaela 明兰 his what now?!?!
I think joining the wizard nazis cuz you got rejected then abusing your bully's son for years is pretty villainous
@Cabamacadaf Jack is not crazy, he is just very smart and has built up a protective persona to help him survive amongst the lowest of the low.
Omg, yes!! Jack Sparrow is such a layered character!!
OMG Yes!! I'd love that!
It’s always felt incredibly sad to me that Snape’s patronus is a doe. It represents Lily, but only because James was represented by a stag. Even that part of her is not detached from the love she and James had for each other and that has to be crushing for Snape
Even though Harry didn’t like Snape the whole time he still showed compassion to him as he was dying. Snape really cared for Harry for the love of his mother always
It's so painful to realize what Snape went through, he has such traumatizing childhood
I wouldn't call it obsession as much as one sided love. Anyone thats ever been in that position knows how hard it is, especially when that person is so special to you.
Growing up in a toxic, abusive environment, it's hard to love any other way than toxic, even if you don't mean it that way. Snape never got the tools to love the right way, but he did love, is how I see it.
I think Snape is one of the most “real” characters… he’s villainous and also heroic. People are always a mixture of traits and behaviours - most of us are capable of being villainous and heroic.
I agree 10,000%.
Yes. Everyone is a little bit of both. If they ever expand into TV shows, they should analyze Cobra Kai, since everyone is morally gray regardless of which dojo they're in.
I think every character in HP is somewhat of a grey character because you can see the darkeness or in some cases goodness inside them peek through every now and then
harry very much sees the world as black and white, good vs evil, and snape is such a good example of a gray character. he isnt good but he isn't necessarily evil either
Snape's death scene was, in my opinion, the best of the best out of the entire movie series for Alan and Daniel. It felt so much deeper than just a death scene. It felt like everything they went through in all those years of filming together tied them together in a way that was beyond just acting.
The books made me believe that it was obsession, one the infamous “i wont let you” line and two is how he asks voldemort to spare lily, kill james and harry. Like broooo do you think after that youd have a chance. Anyways i was never able to see it as romantic after i read the books (i didint even knew how to read as i watched first the movies as a kid)
@Paola Rodriguez And you know why so many defend Snape, warts and all? Besides the fact that he is a well-written character (easily the best written in the series), he is the _only_ character who is a redemption arc that you get to see in full. You only really see Dumbledore after his, James before his, and Malfoy has the weakest redemption arc I have ever seen. Only with Snape do you see the remorse, and what he did with that remorse.
@Paola Rodriguez Anything he did to kids was necessary in order to do the things possible to set Voldemort up for failure later. He knew that he could never let the mask slip at any moment in order to accomplish what he did. And, yes, he knew what he had to do before Voldemort returned. While he may not have known the full extent of what Quirrell was doing for The Dark Lord, several knew that he would return. If Hagrid knew it, Snape knew it, too. Why else.do you think that he couldn't let anyone know the best of himself?
@ondine grimm I don’t think Dumbledore is a saint just like a Snape he’s a grey character, regulus joined a Terrorist group and like you said before only turned because of Kretcher not because muggles and muffle borns were tortured and killed so even though he made a great sacrifice he still hold his discriminatory belief not making him a good person, my point was is that Snape’s character shouldn’t be worshipped as much as he is because even though the order wouldn’t have made it without him he still bullied kids specially Harry over the fact that he looks like his father and favored Slytherins whom he knows many Slytherins have family ties with death eaters, he’s an amazing character and a very interesting one but not a good person
@Paola Rodriguez And Dumbledore only stopped his plan of subduing the muggles because his sister was killed, and Regulus only turned on Voldemort because his house elf was hurt, and so on. Almost every character's motivations for fighting on their side could be reduce to a form of selfishness. What's matter is that it's not all there is to it and that it doesn't change the good they're doing. So, what's your point?
And we don't know that Lily's death wasn't the last straw. And, if it was his initial reason, it doesn't mean he didn't end up renouncing his ex-views for real afterwards, as exemplified by "lastly, only those I couldn't save" and his disgust for the word "mudblood".
"he asks voldemort to spare lily, kill james and harry". He didn't ask Voldemort to kill James and Harry.
Hey, I found this channel recently and I love it! 🤩 The friendship between you two in is brilliant ☺️ I would be interested to see Johnathan's therapists analysis of the relationship between Harry and Dumbledore, because it's both very unusual and I think, rather odd for a teacher/student relationship.
Welcome aboard and thank you!
Would love to see one of these videos on Dumbledore. He was a much more complex character than the kindly old teacher he was initially portrayed as.
I have a question: If your feelings don't lead you to sabotage the other person but still prevent you from moving forward aren't they still unhealthy?
Snape being from an abusive home is canon.
Can’t remember details but they definitely reference it.
@turkoizdog whole reason why Half Blood Prince is my favourite book yet least favourite film
@Fifi :3 Just because Harry wasn't physically abused doesn't mean he wasn't abused. He was starved and never given one ounce of kindness from the Dursleys. He also had no friends growing up. Both he and Snape had friends at Hogwarts. But not once did Harry ever bully or hurt others because of how he was treated like Snape did. I'll excuse Snape's behavior in school because, like James he was immature, and probably misguided, but there is no way in hell I am excusing his behavior as a teacher for any reason. He was an adult bullying children because he enjoyed it
@bookworm598 harry came from a NEGLECTFUL home, it is heavily implied that Snape was beaten. snape also had no friends, no weasleys, no godfather, no knowledge that his parents had loved him. not to mention people respond differently to trauma. just wanted to mention that.
Harry came from an abusive home as well, wore dudley's old, oversized clothing, was starved and locked under the stairs as punishment. I don't think Snape gets to use this as an excuse for bullying 11 year olds
@Maricon Llavanes Yes, and in the books, when Lily first met Snape, Snape was wearing something over-sized and inappropriate for a boy, unlike the well-fitted shirt and pants in the movie. It's obviously his parents did not take good care for him and did not provide appropriate clothing for him.
Seeing the pain Snape felt made me cry unexpected. I would neither consider him a hero or a villain because he has actions in both. What most of all takes him away from being a villain is his good love for Lily and his feelings for Dumbledore. On the other hand he is a mean ass guy, but most of all probably out of bad life experience.
I've watched Snape's memory several times, and every single one of them made me cry. Even when it's played in this video. I can't believe that the Harry Potter franchise never won an Oscar.
Love this! Alan Rickman’s portrayal of Snape is by far my favorite Harry Potter character because he is so complex and loyal. In the end he does what’s right and the movie is flipped on its head. He spends his whole life dedicated to serving others regardless of if he wants to or not. Regardless of anyone knowing or acknowledging his acts of selflessness. While his bullying of Harry is not excusable, and may have been a mask. It was yet another masterful description. He is not good he is not evil, he is grey. To me, he is a hero. Always. Even heroes are human. Alan Rickman did a phenomenal job bringing Snape’s complexities and turmoil of harbored emotions to life.
Deception *** curse you auto correct!
I’m team love. Not all people who love are good inherently, but he never controlled her, never abused her. You can love without expectation of return. Well told. The best of these stories are teaching children how three dimensional people can be.
Snape didn‘t just bully the one kid. Even if you leave out all the times that he has bullied children in the books (like threatening to literally POISON Nevilles pet), you can still see in the movies, that Snape, a TEACHER, is the greatest fear of NEVILLE, a boy who‘s parents were tortured by deatheaters to the point where they barely even recognize him anymore. There‘s no excuse for making a child feel that way.
When he says, "Take it," is a great look into this character. He's dying, he can finally tell Potter everything, unburden his soul, but he does none of it. His first thought is for the mission.
@alarin612 There's also an issue of privacy here. Snape's love for Harry's mother was not something he wanted to share with anyone openly, including Harry. Especially Harry. Because of humiliation, loss, guilt, regret. Voldemort knew about it but could only be allowed to understand it as a motive for Snape hating James and then Harry. (In the book Snape tells Harry to look at him because he craves recognition, in the movie it's to focus Harry on his words, "You have your mother's eyes", as a clue that things have not been what they seem.
@Tiph JKR didn't like Snape even after she created him and realized his potential. It's not the first or last mistake she made in characterization but it still resulted in a brilliant character both in print and on screen.
@helena I wish you luck in your linguistic journey.
@alarin612 oh true.
Yeah I have a degree+diploma and speak two language my grammar in English has never been too well though,
also Australian English is slightly different to American for example we don’t spell mom like “mom” we spell it like “mum” here
@helena Also, please take a grammar course or something. I'm getting tired of trying to sift through your poorly written comments to understand your point when you do things like write "mopping" instead of "moping" and write incomprehensible nonsense like "Which he didn't which second was to kill him." I'm trying to discuss this with you in good faith but your poor writing skills are making me sad.
I haven’t seen the HP films in a while and haven’t read the books since I was a kid, but I forgot just how gut wrenching this story is. I’m sitting here crying on the train! 😭
Favorite character of HP.
Love that we can still debate and argue whether he earned redemption or was ever worth it at all.
The sign of a great character
Snape is a logical human character. I too believe he grew up in a abusive home. With that comes a great self critical eye that makes him able to take great responsibilities. This is where it is logical that he does not like the pupils because seeing children feeling free and loved, that they does not even question their own existence as he very likely did has a boy is of course upsetting to him. When a person is used to traumas or hatred that person can take a whole lot more of it than a person who is used to a stable home because it is nothing strange to him, he must relearn to be able to fully believe in for instance Lillys love for him. Maybe he did not realize that she perhaps was interested in him and she took her second choice. To keep his emotions and wishes to himself and be able to lie to everyone is a self defensive move that a child used to threats has great ability to. He is a social strategic genius, and it is what he does best. His bullying can be seen as a vent for his frustration about where he finds himself. Why didn't I fight harder for Lilly?, why did i put my trust in Voldemort? oh i had a crappy childhood but why did i deserve that?
Imagine Snape’s relief when Harry walked in. He was probably laying there thinking he’d failed. He hadn’t told Harry and he was going to die unable to finish everything he’d worked for, for 17 years. And then there Harry was. I think he probably died in absolute peace after that.
Snape is by far my favorite character in Harry Potter, books and movie. I think Alan Rickman did an amazing job with everything. I think like anyone else, Snape has both elements of light and dark in him. I think a lot about the scene where Snape calls Lily mudblood, causing her to end their friendship, but I believe based on their following conversation in the book when he is begging forgiveness that there had been little things pushing them apart for a long time before then.
I would also like to note, that while Snape doesnt seem to care about Harry (and I can certainly imagine how horrible it would be to see Harry, as someone you believe should have been your child had Lily chosen differently), but much of the time Snape ends up challenging Harry to do better, to be better than even Harry thinks he can be, and importantly to be better than James was. It was important to Snape that Harry try to follow school rules better, learn occlumency to protect himself (after Snape has killed Dumbledore this is obvious), and even protects him and his friends and allies at various times. Snape is just a very real character. It is just sad that he was abused by his father, used abused and manipulated by voldemort, and used and manipulated by Dumbledore. The fact that he could even love at all, and love so deeply and truly, selflessly, is remarkable.
Personally, the one thing that can't redeem him is his treatment of Neville in both the books and the movies. That a student's worst fear is a teacher is simply terrible
@Ahstia Summers But Snape loved Lily. She came from a non-wizarding family.
@Happy Llama Bullies are abusers, aren’t they?
@Tribrachidium heraldicum Brilliant answer. But there's just one problem. I don't take Harry Potter seriously. Looking at a characters actions in a story and then saying what they are isn't taking something seriously. All it is is basic reading reading comprehension.
@Books with Ike I call it applying real world logic to a fake thing and taking it too seriously. Lord.
@Tribrachidium heraldicum In a normal school I would agree with you but in a school with literal manifestation of depression, having your parents tortured to insanity, a Forrest with all manners of horrors, a world where actually most of the fears we had as a kid exist in some way or another,....
In a world like this I simply don't think a teacher is the worst fear and it's implied that Snape is as much as an unlikeable git as he is in the books
i LOVED the Snape interpretation from the movies. He's the untold hero- the man who was behind it all. It has this beauty in his acceptance of Harry that makes his whole history click. Snape was the "hidden hero" arch done so well.
When i read the death scene of Dumbledore i found it hard to imagine a Dumbledore that would plead for his life with a please. That the please could mean two different things was obvious to me and the fact that Snape hesitates, his character does not hesitate in most scenes.
I love Alan Rickman. He's serious, he's funny, he's cruel.
It's very easy to make people like you as an actor and be a good person but it's hard to make the audience hate you as an actor and still be a good person
I realyyyyyy need more HP content by Cinema Therapy. I wish this episode was longer... So great!! It was very good comments and reflections. And LOVED the impersonating of Snape by the end. Thank you so much for all this amazing job. I'm using you guys as a relaxing time and good company at the end of a exausting work day. (Yes, my social baterry is low and I don't want to go outside talking with anyone... Instead I can hear hours and hours of CT!! But I do therapy to get better. Don't worry. Thanks!!).
I can't believe you left out talking about the scene where Snape fights McGonnagal and redirects the spell onto the two bully teachers behind his back to knock them out and then when flying off he stops by both of them to take their wands so that they can't cause harm anymore. That's like the best thing in the film to show him to be more heroic and actually protective, which wasn't in the book.
I've always felt that Snape was a person who never liked children but was thrusted into a teaching position.
Mr Filch isn’t happy with your comment (bit about teaching excluded)
@Peter Parker I think the point was if Snape wanted to stay in the safety of Hogwarts, he had to work.
@aexious not just that... He actually had to. He had to be cruel to specific children and kind to others or they would've reported it to their death eater families, and Voldemort would've not only questioned Snape's loyalty, but may have felt specific students regarded as a threat were not suffering enough for his taste.
My theory is that he was under orders by dumbledore to portray the most mustache twirling villain so that the kids would think hes a loyal death eater still
@Queeni someone in another comment said he wanted DADA *because* it would force him out after a year... He really didn't have a way out and I could understand him wanting one... Being there probably held a lot of truly sad and unpleasant memories... It's easy to dwell on the past when you literal live in it
i just started bawling when i saw how moved alan got after he realized that snape sees lily in harry...
Did Snape love Lily? He loved her enough to let her go and be happy with someone he hated. Her happiness meant more to him than his own. Yes, he loved her, deeply.
I think that Dumbledore’s death in the book also mainly viewed from Harry’s perspective. I know it’s written in 3rd person but we are meant to see things from Harry’s eyes, so Snape killing Dumbledore looks cold and heartless. In the film, we get to see more from Snape. Difference in mediums
After reading the Novels, then watching the series, it’s hard not to react with “ this is dog shit” constantly. Rick is an absolute excellent actor, that’s about all…
This channel has helped me appreciate films more and take the time to really enjoy them and see everything that has been put into them. Thank you so much for that it’s like a whole new world for me.
It’s even worse when you realize that Snape feels like he’s at least part of the reason Lily’s dead because he told Voldemort the prophecy
@Victoria And the fact that he does makes him very human.
He IS part of the reason Lily’s dead and he should feel guilty.
Edit: He is punishing himself by punishing Harry. He wants to love Harry, but he can't let himself from his guilt. Snape is very complex.
And the other part of the reason is in Spinner's End with him at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince. Amazing how Alan Rickman could pull off cold contempt masked as idle indifference with a paper flip, three words, some hesitation, and a flick of the wand.
*"Run along, Wormtail"* (because you deliberately betrayed the only person I ever loved, you coward)
I've always felt that Rowling cheated us when she described Snape's face as wearing a mask of hatred when he killed Dumbledore.
Harry has heard “you have your mothers eyes” so many times, but when snaps says it it hits TOTALLY different
Snape's character and portrayal between the films and books was, like many film portrayals, quite different from the source material. But his is the rare sort where I really appreciated the differences for just the reasons you both described: it felt like he was working with a different mindset for his portrayal in the movies, but that was okay. I liked the type of character and motivations he had in the book AND the different way his character was in the movies. Different, but both were great. Very deep and complex and immensely emotional.
That duel against McGonagall where deflects the spells to kill the two death eaters is genius.
Dumbledore never struck me as someone who'd beg for his life. So even just in the books, it wasn't too hard to realize what was actually happening.
I think that it reads differently in the books, because it’s told from Harry’s point of view. He only sees someone he hates killing someone he loves. And he interprets “please” without giving it a second thought.
Honestly, I lost the love of my life at 22 years old.
Alan Rickman's portrayal of the pain of finding Lily, ooon pooooint.
When I found out my love had passed, I practically fell out of my car and just wept on the driveway, I couldn't even stand up.
His pain feels so real in that scene.
I'm sorry for your loss.
@Eyden I'm so glad to hear you're on the right track! Proud of you for not giving up on life and finding help! We will find happiness again! You can do this! 💪🏽
@Powerpuff Avenger Thank you for sharing that!! I can definitely relate. ❤️ I just turned 33 so it's been about a decade, but I can completely relate to everything you explained having gone through. I also contemplated various ways to end myself, and then once I decided I couldn't, I started purposefully putting myself in danger hoping that life would take me out itself.
I even drove for work at the time, and after 6 months of being a danger on the road, I quit. It took me some time to seek therapy, and tried a few different antidepressants before admitting that wasn't the way to go.
❤️
But, lots of time, some therapy, and lots of reflection, and lots of healing, things are definitely not so horrible anymore. Life has moved on, although he's kind of just become a part of me at this point.
I feel you. I was 21 when the love of my life committed suicide. I had a MASSIVE depression that lasted for a year or 2 or 3, I can't remember. I didn't have any psychological help, let alone medication. I just remember being numb and paralysed for most of the time, just sitting behind my laptop till the sun rose, wondering what would happen to my body if I jumped off my balcony or questioning what angle I'd have to stab myself in the chest to pierce my heart or how much force I needed to slit my own throat. I only found some solace in food and my body exploded with stretch marks and such. I begged for the universe to give me cancer so I could decline treatment or to just not wake up whenever I did go to bed, but I was too much of a hollow shell to do anything else. I could barely even cry most of the time. In 2 years time I tried to kill myself 3x, but I never managed, after 15 years (4 of which were after his suicide) I realised I hadn't been wanting to kill myself for quite some time. So from the age of 25, I declared myself free from dark thoughts, turning 30 this summer! I feel sorry for your loss, but I genuinely believe that, if it hasn't already, time can heal. Not cure (because that would mean erasing the problem altogether), but heal to help you process it and continue a life you want.
My heart ached reading this. No one should have to experience what you did.
13:48 I've never noticed the de-aging.
Also I always remember in the last book, he pleaded with Dumbledore to save Lilly only and even Dumbledore couldn't stand him.
I really struggle with Snape and Dumbledore's relationship, but my take on it is how two very traumatized and hurt men coexist. They do like each other a lot, they trust each other and have each other's backs, but they are so traumatized they don't know how to have a healthy friendship.
Severus has no sense of boundaries or self esteem, he takes out his emotions on people who are under his authority, and he clings to the approval of those who he sees as his authority. (First Voldemort and then Dumbledore.)
Dumbledore on the other hand tries to detach himself from everything and focus on the goal, because he is afraid of what happens to the people he loves. He believes that he ruins the lives of those he cares most about, causing them to go down dark paths, hurting them physically and emotionally, even killing them. We know he blames himself for his sisters death years and years after it happened. He feels that he hurts people most by getting close and opening up and bringing them into his personal life.
Not a single person, book or movie actually knew Dumbledore, never went to his house, asked about his family, knew how he was when he was younger. No one knew anything because Dumbledore was afraid. That was his biggest weakness, he was afraid to be human, to have relationships, to let people in. Everything he did was to keep people at arms length and complete the goal.
Now here comes Severus, a man he looks down on and yet also is intrigued and impressed by. He sees himself in Severus in the way that they have no one, no one that truly knows them or cares about who they really are underneath their power. I think he does really, honestly, deeply care about Severus, and it is because of that that he uses him and pushes him away. Because he doesn't want to have something with Severus and have his life torn apart because of it. Dumbledore is trying to save Severus from himself, and in the end hurts him all the same.
Everything would have been so much better if they had truly opened up and actually built a relationship. But Dumbledore was afraid and Snape didn't respect himself enough to make a change.
What i do wanna remark, the Music all throughout the 7 Movies is also a getting more grand and Less Magical but more like a Legendary Story is told. This kinda also represents not only Harrys Growing, but also everyone else evolving and when it comes to Snape, there is never a very Threatening Music but also low key heroic and going from small to great. Most times silent, whenever he does horrible things or make Harry Uncomfortable. but Heroic in every other Scene, emphasizing his true Feelings and Morals.