The point that he turns down being an avenger and the spider suit Tony made for him, is the moment, you can see it in Tony's eyes, that Tony chooses Peter to get the glasses at the beginning of far from home. Him choosing to be what he knows he's good at, instead of rushing to get in over his head and figure it out later is exactly the thing Tony has spent 3 or more movies learning. Tony starts off being ironman by literally falling out of the sky, twice. He runs before he can walk. He is warned by Jarvis that a flight is a bad idea and does it anyway. He nearly gets shot down by the US military cause he goes off on his own. He ends up disabled by Stain because he confronts him without a plan. In the second movie he is being poisoned by the reactor that he has been amping up without considering what the increased volatility of the isotopes required will do to his blood. Again running before thinking. In the 3rd movie he taunts a bad guy and nearly gets himself and pepper killed. In the second avengers film he accidentally creates ultron by unleashing a rogue AI on the world without thinking about the consequences. Tony has learned that a little foresight goes a long way, and learned it the hard way. Now hes standing there giving this brilliant kid the chance to run before he really has the hang of walking, and the kid has the foresight and maturity to turn it down. That impresses Tony beyond all, and its the moment he chooses that kid to succeed him.
I love your channel and messages but accepting a sponsorship from better help feels very unethical and contradictory to everything you guys have been saying, considering all the current and past controversies of betterhelp Better help doesn’t protect the privacy of their clients nor do they care about the quality or even qualifications of who they are hiring as “therapists”, plus the current controversy of stealing information from therapists? Please address these issues because there are a lot of potential harm that could come from promoting betterhelp
I would argue there is a difference between being respectful to someone vs respecting them. I think being respectful is on you and the respect you have for them is on them.
@B1ak N3ss You don't demand respect. That is called entitlement. It is earned from others by your own actions and character. You don't give respect either in the way you are thinking.
The scene in Homecoming when he’s trapped in the rubble and having a panic attack made me cry, it was so well acted. It felt so real and drove it home that he was just a kid who was scared. So well done.
I'm glad somebody brought it up. I love that it's a gut wrenching reminder that he's still a kid. We tend to forget that since spiderman is a superhero.
same here, he is alone, he is a kid, and he is freaking terrified...so he makes the move, he is brave, and acts like an Adult. This is really a story about a Boy, a Spider-Boy, becoming a Man, a *Spider-man*
tom holland should win an award just for that scene. not many scenes can make me want to run in and pull rubble off of a movie character...thats actually never happened it was hard to watch at first but it was so rewarding
One thing they should've talked about when talking about his mentors is how in NWH, Doctor Strange doesn't act like one, he acts like a colleague, and respects Peter as such, even when he's mad at him he's not paternalizing, but rather pissed off by his flaws. Strange is that one grown up that sees us as grown ups when we start to fly out of our nests, let it be a college teacher, a boss or simply a friend.
@lstarsabb that’s because Dr. Strange has a savior complex. It’s a point they hammered home in every Dr. Strange movies and even the 1 episode in What If. If he sees a thing he can fix, he will. It has to be him and he refuses compromises. Fixing his hands? He wanted himself as the doctor. Saving the love of his life even though it causes paradox? He has to fix the paradox. If Peter bring up a problem, Strange will fix it. He’s a hero as much as he’s a villain in many other universes. He doesn’t have Peter moral compass. The thing that differentiate the Strange we know and the other Strange, is purely circumstantial. People praise him for treating Peter as a colleague, but I don’t think he did it because he thought Peter matured. He did it because of Peter’s power and intelligence. Strange constantly belittle doctors that aren’t as talented as him and, although with great effect, uses condescending as humor. He’s not a bad person by any mean, but he has a very strong definition of self and who he is as a person. His great fault is that he never uses his tremendous intellect to reflect on himself until life hit him in the face and forces him to.
Yet this was ultimately a mistake. It's not something to be glorified, but it is reflective of adult/child dynamics in 2022. Kids teach adults as much as adults teach kids today, which is stupid. It ultimately led to disaster in the film. Good lesson
@Wesley Wallace you've got some great points there and I agree with you but I think part of the reason that Dr Strange didn't question Peter is just because of his own track record. Dr. Strange seems to have a habit of getting himself into situations that have major consequences.
@twistedyogert No teenager is confident, it's something that's built. It's not surprising total-nerd-geek-teenager-scientist- has an actual secret identity with a lot on the line if anyone finds out- Peter Parker has very little confidence compared to playboy-philanthropist-billionare-adult with no real secret identity Tony Stark
I personally love Tom as Spider-Man. He truly brings that teenager feeling to the character. I also love that Tom Holland is like Peter Parker in real life. If you watch interviews with him and the rest of the Avengers cast, he has that same sort of goofy, out-of-his-league energy with all these older, more experienced actors. And I personally love that him and RDJ have that same dynamic as they do in the movies. I think Tom is just the best Spider-Man and has the most growth in the series.
I know it’s minor but something I’ve always loved about Peter and Tony’s dynamic is that for all Peter thinks his messages and reports are being ignored Tony casually mentions that he is genuinely paying attention to the, to the extent that he knows what clubs Peter is a part of
@Serena Leahy-Higgins good point. All nice, can be very tempting from the inside, but it means something missing. And movies have trained us: the overly nice boss/authority/mentor is a baddie
i didnt like beck because he was "too perfect" it set off red flags in my brain cause he was so effortless and so quick to help and in my experience it felt off because he just...he was too kind i dont know how to explain it but i could see through it so quick. he was nice but it was such a thin veil. no real emotion behind the niceness. it was so...surface level with tony and happy and others it was deeper than just "oh i can give you x advice" it was i am gonna give you advice cause i care about you not cause youre young and naive and could use it
@Felicity Scardino yep, that phrase always fell a bit sour, sometimes the smartest person in the room don't think other people problems matter, which is exactly why it is a bad advice specifically for spider-man, of all the heroes he is the one that cares about the villains the most and most of his villains are villains because they are the smarter person in the room but also self centered, which peter isn't, which is why he never tried to become rich using science if you are the smarter person in the room and someone thinks you are wrong, maybe they know something you don't know and i think Peter is at his best when he is working together with people smarter than him on their field so they can share their knowledge, like Banner, Tony and Reed sometimes even villains like Kurt Connors and Octopus which coming from mysterio is hypocritical, there is an entire room of geniuses helping him, so he can get the glory, people smarter than him are apologizing to him all the time
@Raven’s Divine Catalyst to be fair, Pete never did. He had an infodump moment and was embarrassed by it. When Tony said it it was in arrogance. When Pete hears it, it was validation. That is embarrassment over a natural impulse, one that can be hard to suppress (ask anyone on the spectrum or with ADHD about one of their favourite topics. Or their latest hyperfocus). So in effect he was getting an "you are okay as you are, don't mask". Or at the worst an "it isn't bad to know or think more about something than other people in the room do".
I think Andrew was probably the closest "Spider-man". Tobey basically embodied Adult Peter Parker. And Tom Holland was the perfect iteration of Young Peter and Spiderman. Each of them brought a different energy to the roles, and all three of them killed it as their respective iterations. I love it, honestly.
Tom Holland's spiderman is exactly what I had imagined him to be. A teen hero with flaws imperfection. A little silly and very emotional teenager who has gone through more trauma and heartbreak than he deserves. He is not perfect he makes poor choice but that's what sells the story well. He is young he learning he is bound to make mistakes. However, his heart is always in the right place.
That entire scene with Peter being stopped from killing Green Goblin by Peter 2...that just had so much character from both of them. What an amazing coming of age story, this trilogy!
@Connie Bailey Tobey's Spiderman isn't exactly guilt free from that. He killed a guy the first movie, and took pleasure in trying to kill Sandman that May had to tell him that Spiderman never kills people.
@Connie Bailey Tobey's look was "I know how you feel. I nearly killed him too after he tried to kill Mary Jane, my Aunt May and a tram full of kids but he's insane and can't help himself."
I agree, but I also feel it took agency away from Holland's Spidey. Stopping him from killing isn't the same as him deciding not to kill... if you follow me.
I still like Andrew as spidey the most, but every time we are reminded that Tom's spidey is a teenager and very out of his depth, he sells it so heartbreakingly well.
@Amber S I completely agree with everything you said and those are my opinions as well, I'd add on tho Miles has probably the best origin story out of all of them. He never felt sidelined in his own origin story even when the movie was mostly about multiverse shenanigans, which is a phenomenal feat. Usually in a lot of multiverse or crossover movies, the main character gets sidelined or a side character gets too much of a spotlight, but that didn't happen here and they fleshed out his character, and redid his character completely from his kinda botched comic origins.
@Amber S YES, somehow you said all my opinions. Add in that Miles x Spider-Gwen is awesome (not Andrew's spidey romance awesome but still) [also I know nothing about the comics here, and really don't care if it is true to the comics if it is still good], and that Miles and Tom's movies had working plots unlike Tobey's and Andrew's (not the actors fault but still).
@Npc I'm knot Tom's Peter is not popular lol. He's bullied by multiple people. He's surprised to be invited to a party. Literally no other student is directly nice to him aside from Ned, MJ, Liz and I guess Betty? That's it. What you're experiencing in the new movies is how high schools actually are. Not the cliche cliques and stereotypes form the Maguire and Garfield movies. Those don't actually exist and really never did aside from in the media, where they work fine, but still, don't exist. The non-popular kids of today are Tom's Peter. Majority of people interact with them fine, they have a couple of friends, but other than that, they sort of just exist. If you've seen Ms. Marvel, it's another great example of a modern day high school. No bullies slamming kids against lockers. No over the top stereotypes. No "mean girls" crew. The "popular girl" being self absorbed and a little clueless but not outright mean or even intentionally rude? Chef's kiss. Perfect. A true outcast in modern-day high school, while unfortunate, almost always chooses to be that way. It's not the same thing as a socially awkward introvert. I should know. I was one. And heck, I became good friends with that popular girl. Thankfully not self absorbed or clueless in my case.
He won me over within a few moments ss a good and decent kid. Spiderman adjacent at the least but not yet fully convinced. Butwhen in homecoming he was looking in through the skylight at the pre-contest party his classmates were having... That was the quintessential highschool PP experience, perfectly distilled. That one little doubting double take was perfect body-acting to sell the conflict...
Congratulations Cinema Therapy, it’s been a long journey. As a guys that’s been here for a while, I’m so glad to see you hit one million. Excited for the future for you guys.
At least with the 2018 video game, I'm not sure how much of the comics it really follows, but there is an aside in I think May's office where Peter says, "My parents were government agents, but no one can ever know."
I didn't realize how much Andrew was MY Spiderman until he caught MJ and I teared up in the theater. The pain and relief on his face was heartbreaking.
I just love what this movie did with Andrew and his Spider-Man. Given how devastated he was about how his tenure as the webslinger ended, this truly felt like a second chance for the actor too to come back and set the record straight. And by God, he made every second count. Andrew is such a talented performer.
I love how in the end, he's broke, he's alone, but it's not a sad ending. The music as he swings in the night is beautiful, epic, and the script says "Peter Parker is no more, but Spider-Man lives on". Brings tears to my eyes to know how beautiful life can be when we do our best to help others.
@SHADE _Zz But is it actually going to be brought up by him in anyway in next movie though? Or is he gonna act like this is the way things have always, because as far as the MCU as a whole is concerned he's basically been completely rebooted as a character. We'll have to see in the next movie he's in cause it's kinda confusing what the spell means for characters' relationship to Spiderman. Happy apparently still met May making it seem like memories intertwined between the identities has remained and it's just Peter's face and name that's gone but in Doctor Strange's case it apparently affected his respect and fondness for him because he seems to have a very indifferent uninterested opinion on him now.
It was hella sad and sobering. It was one of the best coming of age endings ever. It literally broke my heart, and that's what Peter Parker's all about. He does the right thing, at a great cost.
@Cory Morrow it’s not needlessly sad. It’s necessary. In all 3 movies, Peter has to learn to incrementally sacrifice more and more of his life and happiness to stay true to who he is. This the same theme explored in Spider-Man 2 where Toby flunked his classes and misses MJ’s date because of his responsibility as Spider-Man. This ending is one step further, because it makes sense. Tom’s Spider-Man know that the only reason why his friends got hurt because they know who he is and they will want to help. That’s why when MJ turned around in the coffee show, the band-aid is in the middle of the screen. He can’t overlook the physical harm that happened because of him. He love them, so he has to keep them safe. All the other sacrifices he gave up so far wasn’t his choice. This one is, because he’s ready to take on the pain and the responsibility.
I am so unbelievably excited to see where they take his character in the next 2-3 movies. I really hope the next movie is him and Daredevil taking on Kingpin and Tombstone. His arc could be him discovering that new york is riddled with evil, rotten people but when he's spider-man, he gets to be the best he can be and save all the good people and the people that matter to him. Kingpin and Tombstone are such evil, awful people and them both being crime bosses actively seeking to make NYC worse would be so interesting to see Peter go up against them with Daredevil- and maybe he would even be reluctant to trust him given everything he's gone through before, but he'd learn to trust him after Matt saves him despite Matt being in mortal danger. I think Matt Murdock and Peter's friendship in the comics is one of the sweetest things and so fun to read.
Spiderman always gets me man, I grew up with Toby but absolutely loved both Garfield and Holland as spiderman, they both brought different stuff to the character.. But seeing spiderman be alone at the end of the movie absolutely broke my heart, he's still just a kid you know..
I was one of those that instantly loved the more teenage Spider-Man in Civil War. It was just so much more fun than the other portrayals for me; like Alan said, he's Spider-Man but he's still just a kid who's had his powers for less than a year. And that felt like a true Spider-Man to me. A lot of people that were leaving my theater the night I saw it were audibly complaining about the "childish" portrayal of their favorite hero, and I'm not a comics person, but from what I understand, that's quite literally the story. A teenager, a kid, gains powers and then has to learn how to be an adult pretty damn fast. The other two iterations didn't feel like that, at least for me. Love to Tobey and Andrew for their portrayals and ESPECIALLY their work in No Way Home, but Tom's is the one I love most.
Idk if anyones mentioned it yet but that moment where Andrew stops them with “I love you guys” it wasn’t scripted and that’s why they look so shocked. Just love that moment 🥰
I love that in the closed captions when they both speak, it identifies the speakers as "Internet Dads". These two are amazing and the conversations you have about mental health, healing, and filmmaking just make my whole day.
Jono, when you said, "We don't treat people with respect because of who they are. We treat people with respect because of who we are." That really got me. Probably because that's who I try to be every day.
This. At my previous job a coworker was always rude, I sometimes wanted to be rude back, but I didn't want him to change me, so I kept being respectful.
I want to remember that. Especially, when I see some jerk acting like an a$$hole to someone, and justifying their behavior with "Respect is something you need to earn" 😑
It goes very well with a good line I've memorized: Respect, like trust, is a _verb._ It's an action you take, not a currency to be earned, a prize to be won, or a gift to be handed out. It's something you do, _a choice you make._
KZclip recommended this channel to me yesterday and I have since been binge watching your videos. It's so fascinating to listen to such in depth discussions about your favourite characters. This channel is so unique. Great work, guys. Thanks a lot. Much love from India ♥️
As a teen myself, Peter Parker has definitely got to be one of the most relatable superheros. Purely because he's a young, naive, teenager who's trying to do good in the world. A world with adults who, unfortunately, might try to put him down or hurt him.
What an absolutely refreshing take on Spider-Man. Spider-Man has been my favorite superhero all my life and I have heard all sort of people break down great moments but all sort start to sound the same after awhile and this video took such as nice angle on it. Just want to say great work and keep it up. Thank you.
"You can't be a friendly neighborhood spiderman if there's no neighborhood." That line still reminds me of something Batman says in the first couple episodes of Justice League: Unlimited. Green Arrow just wants to look out for the little guy and leave the giant monsters to people like Superman, but Batman tells him that the little guys Arrow is trying to protect tend to get squished by giant monsters.
While I understand how he's growing into adulthood by not telling his friends what happened, I think it shows how adulthood can go too far. Independence is important, but so is the ability to know when you need to ask for help. To know that it's okay to need people in your life you can rely on
@Dakota Vanleer not really, friendships are not decided by a single party or any relationship for that manner. The truth is that Peter already has all the baggage in the form of knowledge of the past and what has been, lost and he is the one who will have to relive that past if he decided to to tell them as he promised. Even if he told them, that wouldn't bring them back to the same spot, it would Peter having the responsibility, with no guarantee of success What if after telling them, the friendships don't blossom in the same way and Peter and MJ don't get together? You would then have Peter being around with the love of his life and having to settle; god forbid MJ date someone else.
Tom Holland’s Peter Parker is one of my favorite teenage characters ever. There is always this weird portrayal of teens in media being inherently selfish, over-emotional, and self-destructive. And yeah, that can be true for a teen (even Peter in some aspects) but that’s also true for adults as well. But teenagers have a lot of idealism and hope that a lot of us lose overtime. Peter is an extremely compassionate person who can be selfish and irresponsible, but like most teenagers he wants to do GOOD. He wants simple things like to hang out with his girlfriend or ask his crush to Homecoming. He wants to please his mentor, but also look out for the little guy. He wants to minimize his responsibilities because it’s so much pressure and he doesn’t believe in his own abilities. Teenagers struggle so much because growing up and making sacrifices is so hard. Like other teens, Peter had to learn in the end that responsibilities are inevitable and constantly changing. There is always more work to do.
@The Rizzler again, I’m not referring to bullying which people seem to think is the only way people can be negative to others. I keep saying it’s not always that overt. You really haven’t read my comments have you. My view isn’t pessimistic it’s reality. Humans have a long and storied history of treating those who aren’t like them as odd. It’s not bullying that’s targeted and overt, it’s as simple as shutting out the odd kid or talking about them behind their back (everyone does it). I’ve seen it every time where someone is weird or odd but nice and people just sort of smile and nod while they’re around and then Talk about them behind their back. You really need to open your eyes to reality. If you think people are generally good then you aren’t paying attention.
@Ian Corral You mean The Seven? And no. Not at all. You're in these comments acting like everyone is so horrible and terrible, but that's just not the case. I'm sorry that you've lived such an unfortunate life to where you think that, but even as someone who was bullied relentlessly for years, I know people aren't black and white. Most teen bullies don't grow up to be bad people. It's just how the brain develops. I'm not saying bullying is right, but it doesn't make them awful people. A lot of people don't like those who are different. That doesn't mean they wish them genuine harm. That's just not the case. If you truly believe everything you're saying, I recommend therapy. Your worldly view isn't realistic. It's pessimistic. There's a huge difference
@Durhandoni80 His history is literally on Wikipedia, dude had a smooth childhood and passed his exams at age 16. All that really happened is his family had to sell their business and move to Italy. So you’re still wrong dude, especially with the research that children that undergo hardships end up stunted as adults either through relationships or depression and anxiety. It’s you who doesn’t know anything about the dude. Not to mention Einstein is an outlier. You can’t really compare the population to him. Just shut up and quit trying to peddle this “forged in fire” nonsense.
One thing I loved about Pete and him being ‘neighborhood friendly Spider-Man’ was that he had this perspective of helping people, the little guy, that some of the other heroes seem to forget sometimes. Not like they are bad heroes or anything! Just when you are saving the world or a whole nation, it’s hard to imagine everyone. To see the effect their work has on a personal level. Spidey always had that with New York. Like New York City is a character in Spidey’s story. I don’t know how else to say it. Spider-Man was always my favorite hero because he always felt like a person just doing their best. Like the rest of us.
My favorite part of the end scene with MJ is that, even when it's painfully obvious she has no idea who Peter Parker is, he has every intention of pushing through the awkwardness to keep his promise and "explain everything." It's only when he sees MJ is genuinely optimistic about her future for the first time and notices the bandaid over the cut on her forehead that he realizes how much bringing her back into the Spiderverse would cost her. She and Ned sacrificed their future helping him, and now that there's no memory of them as FOS, they're free to go to MIT and do whatever they want. When MJ tells Peter, *"It doesn't really hurt anymore"* he reads that as *"losing you as my friend/boyfriend doesn't hurt anymore."* So he can finally be at peace that Ned and MJ will be happy living his dream, step back, and thank MJ for everything that she's done. Peter might stop by every few weeks as a casual customer (and might even ask MJ what she and "her friend" want to study at MIT), but he won't get any closer to keep them safe. In order for Spider-Man to live on, Peter Parker must disappear.
Watching this is... surprisingly healing. I grew up with parents who wanted me to be independent, yet didn't like it that I had my own opinions, my own interests, and wanted to do things differently. I wanted to go to uni, but not the course they wanted. I wanted to learn to cook, just not their dishes. I'm still being scolded even now in my late 20s, for trying new things. I don't know how to deal with my parents. But its good to hear again that I have the right to just, do things. There were a lot of expectations for me to succeed in life. But I fell flat in uni. Because I didn't know how to manage my emotions, I wasn't taught to do that. My parents have invalidated me, so I thought I just shouldn't have emotions and have no right to feel negative feelings towards them. I now know that I can release it by finding support groups, renting spaces, talking to my parents about them etc. I'm preparing myself for the longer road ahead.
Honestly I love how everything that Quinton Beck does around Spiderman is a lesson for him. He teaches him exactly what he needs to succeed in the future of his superhero career whether he intended to or not. This includes the reveal of his identity to the public as it shows how he has to keep his identities as Peter Parker and Spiderman separate from each other because if he doesn't then that means that those who he loves will get hurt. Beck is amazing at teaching superheroes lessons despite being a supervillain even if it's just Peter Parker that he teaches.
“Don’t be in a rush for adulthood.” Reminds me of that C.S. Lewis quote about putting away childish things. “When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
@manny maker both: I don't wanna grow up. Jeff. There were so many silly things we liked to do. Fred: Yes. Jeff: Then we started growing up and now they're through. Fred:YES! Jeff: Being responsible is hard to do. Fred: YES!!! Jeff: I liked it more when it was just me and you. A billy and Mandy song
Dude, we need Spiderverse up in here. Not only because it's set in winter, came out around Christmas, and is getting a well deserved sequel next year, but because it's a damn fine movie.
It still blows my mind that they even got the other 2 legacy actors in No Way Home to do the things was such a cinematic joy and did everything I ever wanted. So good.
I love these movies because of small details like Peter having a building collapse on him and insticlualy cry out for help because he's just a kid, the little therapy session with Happy where he finally has a safe space to get out everything that he was worried about, and the interactions between Peter and MJ in No Way Home because you can tell that they love and care for each other. I love that last thing I mentioned because it feels genuine in a way we haven't seen with any previous version of this character in film. In the Rami trilogy, it feels more like a "Will they; Won't they" thing, in the TASM movies, it gets better, but it's closer to Hollywood love and care for each other. The MCU films are the only place that I feel these connections between Tom's Spidey and any other character in this universe, and I think I like them so much because it feels like how I would talk to these characters if they were real. These movies have helped me so much in my high school life and as embarassing as it is to say, Spider-Man helped me get through my freshmen year and most of my sophomore year so far. This character will always mean so much to me, especially the MCU's take on this character.
For me, Tobey, Andrew and Tom represent different aspects of Spider-Man Tobey: Peter Parker Andrew: The suit/Spider-Man himself Tom: The balance between both of his identities. Of course this is just how I see it🤷♂ All of them did fantastic in their roles and I like them all. Hopefully we get to see more in the future!
2:50 Fun fact about this line: Tom was supposed to move his leg but he forgot the blocking for the scene, so RDJ corrected him in the most Tony Stark way. Everyone loved it so much more than the original blocking, so they kept it in the final cut
I always tell people the reason I love Tom Holland as Spidey IS that scene of him trapped under the rubble. Because that one scene more than anything really made me think of him not just as a superhero but as a kid.
I remember that scene in the first MCU spidey movie where Peter is stuck under the rubble and in that moment, Toms acting was so good my heart genuinely broke for Peter - in that moment I saw him as just a young boy
22:30 I took it as that Peter didn’t find a new mentor with the other peters but he found a new mentor in himself thus why at the end he’s alone because he can do it
One of the things that really interested my about Tony in Civil War is that, while being at war with Cap, Tony essentially adopts... Cap. Spiderman is another of those kids with that instinctive, innocent morality. (One major difference, of course, is that Peter is naive and sometimes has stunningly poor judgment and planning skills.)
The title "No Way Home", is extremely symbolic at the end, knowing that Peter has nobody, including MJ, Ned and Aunt May, who knows his secret. He literally and figuratively has no home to go back to.
@Pillars of Snow I wouldn’t even say Peter Parker is fate’s bitch. He chooses to tackle responsibilities and a consequence that means he has to acquire more power, which helps him procure higher level responsibilities without forgetting his past ones. It’s a feedback loop which has him standing in the middle of the hurricane. “When you choose to stand in the centre of the hurricane you can’t complain about the rain.” Jonathan Hickman’s Spider-Man
@Juci Shockwave I agree but also sometimes we just don’t get the things we want even after we put 110%. I’ve had moments like that where I put that much into doing good, and sometimes never got what I worked for. Here - Tom Holland’s Peter is just a great example of what hope and I think resilience can bring to everyone.
@Ribotto Studios That is why Toms' Spidey is my favorite. He shows the reality of life. Even adults can relate to him. Despite the character being a teenager, an adult can relate to "sh!t happens and you just have to find another way around to it". Even if you get your diploma and work hard and demonstrate all of your abilities, the reality is everything will always be given to someone else who never worked truly a day in his/her life and everything always given him/her because of nepotism or other bureaucratic BS!
@Leif Eriksen oh I KNOW I was like "he had such a bright future, and it was just all torn away THIS SUCKS!" but it's Peter. He'll figure his way around the world.
I absolutely love your analysis! I've been a Spider-Man fan since I was tiny, and despite the love and obsession there is for Spider-Man, there's for little appreciation for what he is and represents. Tom Holland is my favorite Spider-Man for all of the reasons you guys mentioned. Spider-Man was such a huge part of my life, and I am so so happy with how he's represented, and how Tom portrayed Peter. I kind of got to grow up as a teenager with Tom's Spider-Man, and I think that helped me a lot.
I get why Peter looks up to Tony so much but it was always funny to me that he does since his ideals line up so much better with Cap. Like legit I think Tony saw so much of him and Steve in Peter and thought he could be better than both of them with a little help. Too bad Cap couldn't have been there for Peter more. Edit: man now I really wanna see Bucky and Peter working together.
We see Peter cry in every one of his solo movies. We haven't seen that from any other Marvel character. I think it's an incredible look into Peter's growth as a person and a hero. This situations are meaningful to him. He's scared. He's regretful. He's learning. He's grieving. Becoming a hero is hard. Becoming an adult is harder. What a great character for kids to look up to.
I recently rewatched NWH, and I took issue with that scene in the donut shop at the end. MJ explicitly told him to not leave her behind before the memory wipe, and he essentially disregarded her wishes.
@Erik Kemeey Right, I understand that. It was terribly obvious. That doesn't change the fact that he decided by himself what's best for her contrary to what she asked of him.
I grew up w Toby but LOVED Andrew since he was the closest to how spiderman is in the comics but Tom has that actual teen energy and u really FEEL that merging into his adulthood and watching him grow and mature. Spidermans perseverance and morality of everything is awe-inspiring Thank u for doing this and can't wait for the spiderverse video!😄😄
"Come on, Spiderman!" "When you can do the things I can do, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you." My favourite lines by Peter.
One of my favorite things is noticing Tobey helping Holland through the grief, like when he noticed he didn't want to work on the goblin cure or just knowing to say that getting what you want won't make you feel better always.
Fun fact: The moment where Tony says "I'm going to sit here so you move the leg" was unscripted. Tom Holland missed his mark, so RDJ just threw that in so he'd scoot over and he could sit.
The scene where he decides not to tell his friends pivots really cleverly on a small moment. When MJ first cut her head and Peter asked if she was okay, she said "It doesn't hurt". When he asks her at the cafe, she says "It doesn't hurt any more". Maybe he's just remembering she was hurt through helping him, or maybe also realises she'd lied to him so he wouldn't stop to look after her. His life hurts those around him, but his friends won't stop that happening because what he does is too important. Like with Aunt May, they'll tell him everything is okay even when it isn't, so the only chance to make sure they're actually okay is to keep them far away from him.
She does mention that if he doesn’t tell her, that she would find out anyway. There’s an implication that MJ may still learn his identity and renew the relationship
@Brook_55 Except he really did intend to do it up until that moment. He'd written a speech, gone to the cafe and was all set to introduce himself, and then changed his mind. I agree it sucks, but he made an honest promise, started to follow through on it and then found out new information that made him change his mind.
@Robbie Smith If the moment is just him remembering she got hurt then I totally agree that he was taking that choice back from her and it's an ironically selfish decision. If he was realising she'd been hiding her pain from him, it makes a lot more sense and is less selfish as he was making a new decision based on new information that she'd hidden from him. She's still getting no say in the matter, so I agree it's not fair, but it was the better choice and it was not possible to ask her again without making it so there was no way to take it back.
"When you do the things I do, and you don't, the fault is on you." As someone in a sort of Encanto family, this hit home. I want to help but idk how to utilize my skills and both me and the person I want to help suffers. also this episode is so timely since I am also a kid moving into college, and independence, and young adulthood. I relate to Peter's pain and trying so hard to grow up, since I also did that and fucked up many times. This episode made me believe in my skills and just do things, even if I fuck it up, so I learn from it and be better. Thank you so much, Internet Dads😭
15:08 "Some people might not deserve respect, but we treat them with respect not because of who they are but because of who WE are." THIS IS WHY I WATCH THIS CHANNEL!!!!!!
I love the hero and villain breakdowns you guys do. They’re some of my faves. If you guys are taking suggestions, I’d love to see a villain therapy for Draco Malfoy. I think there’d be a lot of interesting points to go over for him.
Spider-Man as a character has always been so fascinating to me psychologically. Each of the actors play the character so differently but so well for what they were trying to convey. I loved this analysis so much!! One movie I would absolutely LOVE to see on the channel is "Monsters University"! The film really captures the pressures of young adulthood, family expectations, doing your best with what you're given, and it's just so heartbreaking in the best way. I think it could make a great analysis and video! This channel has taught me so much in the fairly short time I've been watching. From dealing with my PTSD to grief to abusive parents to isolating to self-image, I have learned so much about not only myself but also how to better myself and be good to others. I've also learned a crap ton about the movie making process and as a writer who dreams of turning one of my pieces into some sort of film, that has been equally as informative and helpful and fun to learn about! So Jonathan and Alan, Thank you both so much for all that you do! We appreciate it so much!!
i really appreciate this episode as someone who's right in the middle of that transition period out of adolescence into adulthood. i feel like this period of life is hardly discussed in detail (at least in my life) so it's so nice to have a professional talking about it. it's really comforting.
Tom’s Spider-Man is the most underrated due to the fact that his struggles isn’t what “fans” go through. People forget that he is a teenager and as a teen myself his problems apply to my generation. The older generation hates this Spider-Man cause simply they don’t get it. They think we have everything, we have the technology, and everything is laid out for us but it’s not that easy. We go through the pressure of having to be successful to the point we lose ourselves trying to reach a standard that adults set for us. We are just kids but are expected to change the world. Sometimes transitioning into adulthood ain’t easy, it may take sacrifice of your youthful innocence but it’s life, and MCU Spider-Man is the one that gets this the most.
@Serena Leahy-Higgins - Your feelings of dread are nothing to scoff at nor are they feelings that weren't shared by many who came before you. I was born in 1975 and I knew, before I hit puberty, that there was no way I was bringing children into this world, a world I was already witnessing degrading before my eyes. Some adults and others of my generation couldn't understand why I felt as I did. By the time I was in my 20s, the knowing had crystalized and I was adamant that NO, I would absolutely NOT bring children into this degradation. My marriage ended because my partner wanted children and I didn't. He couldn't understand why I was adamantly against it, but he hadn't been me as a child, a child who'd been watching closely as the birds and butterflies dwindled to the point that they're a rarity in most places. Oceans and rivers grew bogged down with plastic and toxic refuse, and whole swathes of forests disappeared. When I fly from the U.S. to Europe, I never fail to see the landscape that used to be the purest shade of white, from snow cover, grow mottled and a patchy dirty brown. I don't reserve window seats anymore, because it's too distressing to look at the landscape. Many want to say there's nothing more wrong now than there's ever been. Those people.... Well, there are times I wish I was like them and could choose to not see or genuinely not perceive the truth at all. You're not alone in your feelings of dread. Yes, your generation's had a far more difficult time ignoring the truth, due to how very evident it is now, but please know that there have been others before you who also carried that dread with them and still do. I live my life and help where I can, and I do my best to not add to the trauma.
as someone whos turning twenty in 2 days yeah...especialy when i think about the really logn term. i remember as a middles schooler feeling like my generation has to be the one to fix the mistakes of the past because were so far gone were losing our ability to survive ont he planet everythign is starting to fall apart and i still have night of no sleep cause of that existential dread of will there be a world in 40 years. i tell this to someone whose been through vietnam and the cold war and they scoff but its scary for me. im worried about whether or not i should have kids cause i dont know if theyll live a full life or if a really bad things gonna happen in 20 years. the pandemic and the past 2 years hasnt helped..the future is terrifying. people hail gen z as one of the most empathetic generations. they say millenials walked so we could run and im terrified that its too late...this is turning into a vent so i apologize but adults in their "infinite wisdom" often forget how big a picture teens and young adults can see. adults tend to get lost in the job and the day to day. ive been looking ahead since i was much younger than this...
@B 127 - "people who say he isn't relatable and are older shouldn't really have a say." Truly? If you honestly hold such an opinion, you've invalidated your own right to have a say in the matter.
One day, my oldest son (6 years old at that time) asked me "What it is to be a grown up?". And I didn't want to get into the dull part, like talking about taxes and boring, impossible to understand things like that for a child so young... So, I just said "Being a grown up... is making choices and living with the consequences." To this day, I still know adults (people who aged above 18) that are still not "grown up" if we take that sentence as a reference. I don't know how much this answer will help my son in his life. I just hope I said it right. But, honestly, being an adult sucks. I'm just happy we get movies like the spideman's to entertain us while teaching us such valuable life's lessons. 💖
The “We treat people with respect not because of who they are, but because of who we are.” hit hard right in the feels. I finally feel seen and understood. I take this as encouragement to keep doing this. Thank you internet dad Jono! Much appreciated encouragement. 🙏🏻😌
Tom is my favorite Spider-Man~ So glad you’re covering him. I feel like a lot people forget how young he is and just how much trauma he’s been through.
Tobey, Andrew & now Tom have all done a fantastic job as Peter Parker/Spiderman but Tom just took Spiderman & enhanced him just like Michelle Pfeiffer did with Catwoman I'm looking forward as to what they'll do with Miles Morales. On top of that you really feel the father/son relationship between Peter & Tony.
I like that Peter chooses not to tell MJ and Ned who he really is at the end. So many innocent people, such as Aunt May, have died because they know that he's Spiderman, so ultimately they're better off not knowing him, sad to say.
@Amber Yes. It's pretty patronizing to make that call FOR her. And by doing so he strips so much of her personal development from her too. That's actually taking away some of her personhood!
@M A. honestly I thought it would have been good if he wrote on her. arm his name or something. and she wakes up confused but let fate bring thrm back together. again, most of thr time when there is a memory wipe.. the person will be mad asf. especially when u made promises. but it brings up good conflict and story.... if they decide to bring in something like that.
@Tariq Thomas haha ya. like if those themes were explored that would be deep. cause it is kinda a theme in anime. what gi es u the right to say u will protect us, u remember but we can't. to protect us? is that not a selfish sacrifice es.. good intentions but you take away someone's ability to make their own decisions.. cool deep stuff.
I've seen all three different Spideys, and honestly ... Tom's my favorite. I'm an 80s kid who grew up watching the 90s Spider-Man series and yet I liked Spectacular Spider-Man FAR better. I love Tom's Spider-Man and I love Tom's Peter Parker. It's perfect to me, it was absolutely perfect casting, and I absolutely love him in everything he's in. I also love how much of a goober he is in real life xD
Andrew is still my favourite as spiderman, Tom as Peter. The strangest thing about the last film was how easy it was to tell the difference between the three of them in the suit. They're so completely different.
Toby will always have a special place in my heart, being the Spider-Man of my childhood. I definitely think Tom plays both parts (Peter and Spider-Man) the best, but no way him was the first true Spider-Man film, and I hope we get at least one true solo Spider-Man film with Tom Holland before passing the torch (meaning don’t introduce miles in the next movie, unless it’s a brief meeting to set up another movie). I also do like Andrew, especially how he does Spider-Man. Him and Emma Stone also had great chemistry. Gwen is still my favorite love interest.
Tom's Spider Man is my favorite MCU Character. The movie came out shortly after my dad died and although I always liked Tom's Spidey, the last movie hit me pretty hard. I was angry at the world and wanted someone to pay for my father's death, for the pain it caused me. Although, of course, I knew that my father allowed me (wish) to have a nice and good young life. This film gives me so much and is extremely important and significant to me when I am threatening to arrive from MY path.
No Way Home had me crying uncontrollably in the theaters. The ending hurts but I love and respect the decision he has to make. I just hate that he loses everyone he loves.
@The Rizzler Precisely, he should have never asked her for her opinion if at the end of the day he was just gonna do whatever he wanted. Don't make promises you will not keep. If you make a goddamn promise you keep it or do not make it at all. I sure hope in later movies he does not get another love interest. And if he comes back to MJ i hope she rejects him. Because otherwise that would be a terrible lesson for girls.
@manny maker Well, it's his life too and if he doesn't want people knowing HIS secret, they don't get to know. He thought he could handle the weight. Now, he knows he can't. That's character development
@The Rizzler I disagree. She has the autonomy to decide whether she wants to risk her life. it's her life, not his. If he cannot handle the weight of that he should have stated that he would NOT respect her wishes before he made everyone forget about him.
@manny maker It's either that or risk her life. She also told him it didn't hurt when they made the promise. He then got new information when she said "It doesn't hurt anymore." He made the right decision
it will be a mistake that will get Pete a slap in the face. with great power comes with great responsibility. but u have no right to make these types of promises and decisions for others. mj will hate Pete for a while when she realizes he lied. he claimed to do it for thrm when they explicitly said- make us remember. find us. no different than the dad saying I'll be back and never coming back home after his pack of cigarettes and then years later sees his kids and say it was for thr best.
When Peter is about to remind MJ who he is, and then she says, "It doesn't really hurt anymore"... that line gets me every time. It hits hard with the double meaning that only Peter is aware of. That sudden realization that *he* brings pain to the people he loves, so he has to walk away to keep them safe and happy... ugh, gut wrenching! Also, I am *so excited* that you're doing Spider-Verse next, as it's my favorite movie of all time! (Most recently tied with Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.)
Part of me is so upset that we'll never get to see those three together in a movie again. I wanna see them be spiderbros more. The other part of me is so happy that No Way Home did happen.
It's not absolutely impossible. There's a low chance that they'll be referenced in a future MCU film and a significantly higher chance that the Spider-Verse sequel will show them on-screen or at least mention them.
I hope he stays on for more spider man stuff because he's really grown into this role and his acting is by far my favorite in that movie. When I saw it for the first time I could not stop thinking about it for days. No way home gave me so many emotions
When Tom Holland's Spider-Man had to forge his own way at the end of "No Way Home" living in a dingy apartment, applying to get his GED, sewing his own suit, and making the sacrifice saving everyone, but everyone forgetting him... that is when his character began for me. I am excited for what his future in the MCU will be, especially if they stay true to the comics and have him mentored by Matt Murdock.
This is why Tom is my favorite. I love seeing Peter grow from a kid to a fresh adult. Even tho he lost everything he still got back up, he still does the responsible thing.
I was so happy they made Mysterio a villian. I knew even in the trailers where they were showing him "saving the day" that this was all a front because I know Mysterio from the shows and games. There was no way they were going to make him a wholesome mentor with no strings attached and I felt so justified when it was revealed to be all a grand illusion.
Another thing love about this movie is how it shows proper respect to the previous two Spider-Man especially my favorite Andrew Garfield and I also love how this movie also gives some level of closure with Andrew's Peter Parker arc cause he gets a chance to redeem the one big failure that haunted him in his movies and that's the death of Gwen Stacy by saving Tom Holland's MJ. That scene still to this day makes me cry cause he gets the resolution and redemption he was seeking and it the cherry on top is MJ asking Peter If he is ok. Which with his response makes me feel his mindset I was that I wasn't able to save the woman I loved but I saved you I saved you so this doesn't have to happen to another Spider-Man.
"When you lose people, there's always more people who can be there to help you" 22:42 True. I have from my own life, noticed, that when one friend goes away, there is someone else to help. I am never left alone for long.
One of my favorite descriptions of the Spideys is that Tobey is the best Peter Parker, Andrew is the best Spider-Man, and Tom is the best of both. Regardless of which is your favorite, I think all three brought forth a different aspect of Spidey and did incredible justice to the character. Lots of love for all the boys
I had no idea how much I needed all three Peters together in one movie. Andrew and Toby are amazing - I will give them the props they deserve. My favorite is hands down Tom Holland. He's just.... everything Spiderman. That guy IS Spiderman.
9:20 I know they don't typically talk about the comics, but this scene is a homage to one of the most iconic and formative moments for Peter in the comics and it would have added so much to their discussion of it if they had known.
I really love the scene right after happy’s speech where Peter is in the mobile lab jamming to AC/DC and you see it in happy’s eyes, pride for Peter growing up and learning the best from tony, becoming better than him in some ways
I really love your psychology of a hero series! It's really interesting to watch. One character that would be awesome to see you do would be Hawkeye as he always seemed to have a different mindset then the rest of the Avengers.
When I saw No Way Home it hit me so hard. I cried during the movie like everyone but when it got to the end and the credits started to roll, I started crying the hardest I had throughout the whole movie that I kind of freaked out my boyfriend. Spiderman/Peter Parker as a character means so much to me and even though he was meant to end up where he did as all iterations of Spiderman do, it just made me feel so sad because Spiderman is always losing what he loves most. He keeps going forward as Jono and Alan said in the video but it's so hard to watch sometimes. I know all stories don't have happy endings but I truly want to be able to see a happy ending for Spiderman where he gets to be with the ones he loves and not be alone anymore. It was a perfect ending for that film but I look forward to seeing this Spiderman find his way to happiness.
The scene where Peter is trapped underneath the cinderblock and he’s crying for help about being trapped and crying out “somebody help me” gets me every freaking time 😭
![[MV] 마마무+ '나쁜놈 (Aniri ver.) (Feat. 김준수)'](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bHW_k6bIUeU/mqdefault.jpg)
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The point that he turns down being an avenger and the spider suit Tony made for him, is the moment, you can see it in Tony's eyes, that Tony chooses Peter to get the glasses at the beginning of far from home. Him choosing to be what he knows he's good at, instead of rushing to get in over his head and figure it out later is exactly the thing Tony has spent 3 or more movies learning. Tony starts off being ironman by literally falling out of the sky, twice. He runs before he can walk. He is warned by Jarvis that a flight is a bad idea and does it anyway. He nearly gets shot down by the US military cause he goes off on his own. He ends up disabled by Stain because he confronts him without a plan. In the second movie he is being poisoned by the reactor that he has been amping up without considering what the increased volatility of the isotopes required will do to his blood. Again running before thinking. In the 3rd movie he taunts a bad guy and nearly gets himself and pepper killed. In the second avengers film he accidentally creates ultron by unleashing a rogue AI on the world without thinking about the consequences. Tony has learned that a little foresight goes a long way, and learned it the hard way. Now hes standing there giving this brilliant kid the chance to run before he really has the hang of walking, and the kid has the foresight and maturity to turn it down. That impresses Tony beyond all, and its the moment he chooses that kid to succeed him.
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Hey im a new to your channel but I absolutely love it!!! Can you guys please do arcane from Netflix!!!
"We treat people with respect not because of who they are but because of who we are" is such a simple but powerful message.
Who said that??? Please
I would argue there is a difference between being respectful to someone vs respecting them. I think being respectful is on you and the respect you have for them is on them.
@Ron Petersen yep
@B1ak N3ss You don't demand respect. That is called entitlement. It is earned from others by your own actions and character. You don't give respect either in the way you are thinking.
People frequently mistake respect with common courtesy. Respect is earned ... it is never automatic.
The scene in Homecoming when he’s trapped in the rubble and having a panic attack made me cry, it was so well acted. It felt so real and drove it home that he was just a kid who was scared. So well done.
I'm glad somebody brought it up. I love that it's a gut wrenching reminder that he's still a kid. We tend to forget that since spiderman is a superhero.
for real
same here, he is alone, he is a kid, and he is freaking terrified...so he makes the move, he is brave, and acts like an Adult. This is really a story about a Boy, a Spider-Boy, becoming a Man, a *Spider-man*
It brought the sheer weight of that “I’m free” comic panel to life. It was a great homage
tom holland should win an award just for that scene. not many scenes can make me want to run in and pull rubble off of a movie character...thats actually never happened it was hard to watch at first but it was so rewarding
One thing they should've talked about when talking about his mentors is how in NWH, Doctor Strange doesn't act like one, he acts like a colleague, and respects Peter as such, even when he's mad at him he's not paternalizing, but rather pissed off by his flaws. Strange is that one grown up that sees us as grown ups when we start to fly out of our nests, let it be a college teacher, a boss or simply a friend.
@lstarsabb that’s because Dr. Strange has a savior complex. It’s a point they hammered home in every Dr. Strange movies and even the 1 episode in What If. If he sees a thing he can fix, he will. It has to be him and he refuses compromises. Fixing his hands? He wanted himself as the doctor. Saving the love of his life even though it causes paradox? He has to fix the paradox. If Peter bring up a problem, Strange will fix it. He’s a hero as much as he’s a villain in many other universes. He doesn’t have Peter moral compass. The thing that differentiate the Strange we know and the other Strange, is purely circumstantial. People praise him for treating Peter as a colleague, but I don’t think he did it because he thought Peter matured. He did it because of Peter’s power and intelligence. Strange constantly belittle doctors that aren’t as talented as him and, although with great effect, uses condescending as humor. He’s not a bad person by any mean, but he has a very strong definition of self and who he is as a person. His great fault is that he never uses his tremendous intellect to reflect on himself until life hit him in the face and forces him to.
@Hannah Stewart exactly that's what i respect the most about Dr. Strange he wasn't a hypocrite and didn't automatically " kid" him.
@fangiscool1 this isn't a 2022 thing, the old Adage of the teacher learning as much as the student is a thing for a reason.
Yet this was ultimately a mistake. It's not something to be glorified, but it is reflective of adult/child dynamics in 2022. Kids teach adults as much as adults teach kids today, which is stupid. It ultimately led to disaster in the film. Good lesson
@Wesley Wallace you've got some great points there and I agree with you but I think part of the reason that Dr Strange didn't question Peter is just because of his own track record. Dr. Strange seems to have a habit of getting himself into situations that have major consequences.
In a lot of ways, Tom Holland's Peter Parker blends the best traits of Tony Stark with the best traits of Steve Rodgers.
@twistedyogert No teenager is confident, it's something that's built. It's not surprising total-nerd-geek-teenager-scientist- has an actual secret identity with a lot on the line if anyone finds out- Peter Parker has very little confidence compared to playboy-philanthropist-billionare-adult with no real secret identity Tony Stark
@No·-· Tony is more confident than Peter.
@MMZERO9 could you elaborate on that please?
That's so true. He's got the genius of Tony and the kind mentality of steve
Peter is everything Steve and Tony could never be. He can inspire people in ways they never could.
I personally love Tom as Spider-Man. He truly brings that teenager feeling to the character. I also love that Tom Holland is like Peter Parker in real life. If you watch interviews with him and the rest of the Avengers cast, he has that same sort of goofy, out-of-his-league energy with all these older, more experienced actors. And I personally love that him and RDJ have that same dynamic as they do in the movies. I think Tom is just the best Spider-Man and has the most growth in the series.
I know it’s minor but something I’ve always loved about Peter and Tony’s dynamic is that for all Peter thinks his messages and reports are being ignored Tony casually mentions that he is genuinely paying attention to the, to the extent that he knows what clubs Peter is a part of
"Never apologize for being the smartest person in the room." - The one piece of genuine advice Beck gives Peter in the whole movie.
He mainly says it out of hate for everyone not appreciating him.
@Serena Leahy-Higgins good point.
All nice, can be very tempting from the inside, but it means something missing.
And movies have trained us: the overly nice boss/authority/mentor is a baddie
i didnt like beck because he was "too perfect" it set off red flags in my brain cause he was so effortless and so quick to help and in my experience it felt off because he just...he was too kind i dont know how to explain it but i could see through it so quick. he was nice but it was such a thin veil. no real emotion behind the niceness. it was so...surface level with tony and happy and others it was deeper than just "oh i can give you x advice" it was i am gonna give you advice cause i care about you not cause youre young and naive and could use it
@Felicity Scardino yep, that phrase always fell a bit sour, sometimes the smartest person in the room don't think other people problems matter, which is exactly why it is a bad advice specifically for spider-man, of all the heroes he is the one that cares about the villains the most
and most of his villains are villains because they are the smarter person in the room but also self centered, which peter isn't, which is why he never tried to become rich using science
if you are the smarter person in the room and someone thinks you are wrong, maybe they know something you don't know
and i think Peter is at his best when he is working together with people smarter than him on their field so they can share their knowledge, like Banner, Tony and Reed sometimes even villains like Kurt Connors and Octopus
which coming from mysterio is hypocritical, there is an entire room of geniuses helping him, so he can get the glory, people smarter than him are apologizing to him all the time
@Raven’s Divine Catalyst to be fair, Pete never did. He had an infodump moment and was embarrassed by it. When Tony said it it was in arrogance. When Pete hears it, it was validation.
That is embarrassment over a natural impulse, one that can be hard to suppress (ask anyone on the spectrum or with ADHD about one of their favourite topics. Or their latest hyperfocus).
So in effect he was getting an "you are okay as you are, don't mask". Or at the worst an "it isn't bad to know or think more about something than other people in the room do".
I think Andrew was probably the closest "Spider-man". Tobey basically embodied Adult Peter Parker. And Tom Holland was the perfect iteration of Young Peter and Spiderman. Each of them brought a different energy to the roles, and all three of them killed it as their respective iterations. I love it, honestly.
Agreed!
I love that the "move the leg, I'm going to sit here" and the car hug exchange were impromptu RDJ shenanigans. He's phenomenal.
Tom Holland's spiderman is exactly what I had imagined him to be. A teen hero with flaws imperfection. A little silly and very emotional teenager who has gone through more trauma and heartbreak than he deserves. He is not perfect he makes poor choice but that's what sells the story well. He is young he learning he is bound to make mistakes. However, his heart is always in the right place.
Tom Holland's crying acting is just devastating. There's something so vulnerable about it.
That entire scene with Peter being stopped from killing Green Goblin by Peter 2...that just had so much character from both of them. What an amazing coming of age story, this trilogy!
@Connie Bailey Tobey's Spiderman isn't exactly guilt free from that.
He killed a guy the first movie, and took pleasure in trying to kill Sandman that May had to tell him that Spiderman never kills people.
@Connie Bailey Tobey's look was "I know how you feel. I nearly killed him too after he tried to kill Mary Jane, my Aunt May and a tram full of kids but he's insane and can't help himself."
@Connie Bailey to be fair, that was his lowest moment, there's nothing wrong with needing help from friends
I agree, but I also feel it took agency away from Holland's Spidey. Stopping him from killing isn't the same as him deciding not to kill... if you follow me.
Love when people say that tobey was amazing in that scene (not harping cause the scene was great), but his acting was basically just 😐
I still like Andrew as spidey the most, but every time we are reminded that Tom's spidey is a teenager and very out of his depth, he sells it so heartbreakingly well.
@Amber S I completely agree with everything you said and those are my opinions as well, I'd add on tho Miles has probably the best origin story out of all of them. He never felt sidelined in his own origin story even when the movie was mostly about multiverse shenanigans, which is a phenomenal feat. Usually in a lot of multiverse or crossover movies, the main character gets sidelined or a side character gets too much of a spotlight, but that didn't happen here and they fleshed out his character, and redid his character completely from his kinda botched comic origins.
@Amber S YES, somehow you said all my opinions. Add in that Miles x Spider-Gwen is awesome (not Andrew's spidey romance awesome but still) [also I know nothing about the comics here, and really don't care if it is true to the comics if it is still good], and that Miles and Tom's movies had working plots unlike Tobey's and Andrew's (not the actors fault but still).
@Amber S
@Npc I'm knot Tom's Peter is not popular lol. He's bullied by multiple people. He's surprised to be invited to a party. Literally no other student is directly nice to him aside from Ned, MJ, Liz and I guess Betty? That's it.
What you're experiencing in the new movies is how high schools actually are. Not the cliche cliques and stereotypes form the Maguire and Garfield movies. Those don't actually exist and really never did aside from in the media, where they work fine, but still, don't exist. The non-popular kids of today are Tom's Peter. Majority of people interact with them fine, they have a couple of friends, but other than that, they sort of just exist. If you've seen Ms. Marvel, it's another great example of a modern day high school. No bullies slamming kids against lockers. No over the top stereotypes. No "mean girls" crew. The "popular girl" being self absorbed and a little clueless but not outright mean or even intentionally rude? Chef's kiss. Perfect.
A true outcast in modern-day high school, while unfortunate, almost always chooses to be that way. It's not the same thing as a socially awkward introvert. I should know. I was one. And heck, I became good friends with that popular girl. Thankfully not self absorbed or clueless in my case.
He won me over within a few moments ss a good and decent kid. Spiderman adjacent at the least but not yet fully convinced. Butwhen in homecoming he was looking in through the skylight at the pre-contest party his classmates were having... That was the quintessential highschool PP experience, perfectly distilled. That one little doubting double take was perfect body-acting to sell the conflict...
Congratulations Cinema Therapy, it’s been a long journey. As a guys that’s been here for a while, I’m so glad to see you hit one million. Excited for the future for you guys.
That’s so sweet that you’ve been there since the beginning!
Thank you!
I love how freaking awkward and cute Tom Holland's spiderman is. And I've also loved seeing him grow. Tom and the writers are doing amazing
26:30 Don't forget-- he's obviously at some point lost his parents. We never see that loss, but we know he is a figure born into loss.
@Uncreative iirc, in the comics Peter's parents and Uncle Ben were, I think, S.H.I.E.L.D agents.
I always thought that, like in the Spectacular Spiderman series, that Peter’s parents died in some sort of accident, like a plane crash
@Uncreative I hope they never pursue that in the movie. (I know they toyed with it in Andrew Garfields movies) but it just doesn't fit with the vibe.
At least with the 2018 video game, I'm not sure how much of the comics it really follows, but there is an aside in I think May's office where Peter says, "My parents were government agents, but no one can ever know."
I just moved into college today, and this hit different for me. It was just what I needed. Thank you guys so much for what you do❤️
Welcome to college :)
Our pleasure!
I didn't realize how much Andrew was MY Spiderman until he caught MJ and I teared up in the theater. The pain and relief on his face was heartbreaking.
I just love what this movie did with Andrew and his Spider-Man. Given how devastated he was about how his tenure as the webslinger ended, this truly felt like a second chance for the actor too to come back and set the record straight. And by God, he made every second count. Andrew is such a talented performer.
@Kant Predict ah! I meant Zendaya, the actress who plays MJ.
@Mark Daniel who tf is Zoe? 😂
But yeah, Spidey 3 catching her to make up for his own failure. Good redemption
My entire theater erupted in cheers when he caught her, and I was bawling 😭😭
That scene wrecked me. Andrew (and Zendaya) absolutely nailed that scene. It was so beautiful and heartbreaking at the same time.
I love how in the end, he's broke, he's alone, but it's not a sad ending. The music as he swings in the night is beautiful, epic, and the script says "Peter Parker is no more, but Spider-Man lives on". Brings tears to my eyes to know how beautiful life can be when we do our best to help others.
@SHADE _Zz But is it actually going to be brought up by him in anyway in next movie though? Or is he gonna act like this is the way things have always, because as far as the MCU as a whole is concerned he's basically been completely rebooted as a character. We'll have to see in the next movie he's in cause it's kinda confusing what the spell means for characters' relationship to Spiderman. Happy apparently still met May making it seem like memories intertwined between the identities has remained and it's just Peter's face and name that's gone but in Doctor Strange's case it apparently affected his respect and fondness for him because he seems to have a very indifferent uninterested opinion on him now.
It was hella sad and sobering. It was one of the best coming of age endings ever. It literally broke my heart, and that's what Peter Parker's all about. He does the right thing, at a great cost.
@Huy Tran it doesn't really make me like it, I get what ur saying but I still stand by my feelings towards it
@Cory Morrow it’s not needlessly sad. It’s necessary. In all 3 movies, Peter has to learn to incrementally sacrifice more and more of his life and happiness to stay true to who he is. This the same theme explored in Spider-Man 2 where Toby flunked his classes and misses MJ’s date because of his responsibility as Spider-Man. This ending is one step further, because it makes sense. Tom’s Spider-Man know that the only reason why his friends got hurt because they know who he is and they will want to help. That’s why when MJ turned around in the coffee show, the band-aid is in the middle of the screen. He can’t overlook the physical harm that happened because of him. He love them, so he has to keep them safe. All the other sacrifices he gave up so far wasn’t his choice. This one is, because he’s ready to take on the pain and the responsibility.
Yess, that hope and will to do good is still
Tom Holland's spiderman is one of the most emotionally riveting characters in cinema I've seen in a while. Can't wait to see what else he gets to do
I am so unbelievably excited to see where they take his character in the next 2-3 movies. I really hope the next movie is him and Daredevil taking on Kingpin and Tombstone. His arc could be him discovering that new york is riddled with evil, rotten people but when he's spider-man, he gets to be the best he can be and save all the good people and the people that matter to him. Kingpin and Tombstone are such evil, awful people and them both being crime bosses actively seeking to make NYC worse would be so interesting to see Peter go up against them with Daredevil- and maybe he would even be reluctant to trust him given everything he's gone through before, but he'd learn to trust him after Matt saves him despite Matt being in mortal danger. I think Matt Murdock and Peter's friendship in the comics is one of the sweetest things and so fun to read.
Spiderman always gets me man, I grew up with Toby but absolutely loved both Garfield and Holland as spiderman, they both brought different stuff to the character.. But seeing spiderman be alone at the end of the movie absolutely broke my heart, he's still just a kid you know..
I was one of those that instantly loved the more teenage Spider-Man in Civil War. It was just so much more fun than the other portrayals for me; like Alan said, he's Spider-Man but he's still just a kid who's had his powers for less than a year. And that felt like a true Spider-Man to me.
A lot of people that were leaving my theater the night I saw it were audibly complaining about the "childish" portrayal of their favorite hero, and I'm not a comics person, but from what I understand, that's quite literally the story. A teenager, a kid, gains powers and then has to learn how to be an adult pretty damn fast. The other two iterations didn't feel like that, at least for me.
Love to Tobey and Andrew for their portrayals and ESPECIALLY their work in No Way Home, but Tom's is the one I love most.
Idk if anyones mentioned it yet but that moment where Andrew stops them with “I love you guys” it wasn’t scripted and that’s why they look so shocked. Just love that moment 🥰
I love that in the closed captions when they both speak, it identifies the speakers as "Internet Dads". These two are amazing and the conversations you have about mental health, healing, and filmmaking just make my whole day.
Jono, when you said, "We don't treat people with respect because of who they are. We treat people with respect because of who we are." That really got me. Probably because that's who I try to be every day.
This. At my previous job a coworker was always rude, I sometimes wanted to be rude back, but I didn't want him to change me, so I kept being respectful.
I want to remember that.
Especially, when I see some jerk acting like an a$$hole to someone, and justifying their behavior with "Respect is something you need to earn" 😑
It goes very well with a good line I've memorized: Respect, like trust, is a _verb._ It's an action you take, not a currency to be earned, a prize to be won, or a gift to be handed out. It's something you do, _a choice you make._
@Sungirl800 Also what some adults call respect is not respect.
This was one of Jon's best lines ever. (and that's saying a lot.)
KZclip recommended this channel to me yesterday and I have since been binge watching your videos. It's so fascinating to listen to such in depth discussions about your favourite characters. This channel is so unique. Great work, guys. Thanks a lot. Much love from India ♥️
Welcome aboard! Thanks for watching!
As a teen myself, Peter Parker has definitely got to be one of the most relatable superheros. Purely because he's a young, naive, teenager who's trying to do good in the world. A world with adults who, unfortunately, might try to put him down or hurt him.
What an absolutely refreshing take on Spider-Man. Spider-Man has been my favorite superhero all my life and I have heard all sort of people break down great moments but all sort start to sound the same after awhile and this video took such as nice angle on it. Just want to say great work and keep it up. Thank you.
peter parker represents morality despite loss. thats my take on it. tom hollands peter did it so phenomenally well
YES. 100 times yes.
That means a lot. Thank you!
"You can't be a friendly neighborhood spiderman if there's no neighborhood."
That line still reminds me of something Batman says in the first couple episodes of Justice League: Unlimited. Green Arrow just wants to look out for the little guy and leave the giant monsters to people like Superman, but Batman tells him that the little guys Arrow is trying to protect tend to get squished by giant monsters.
While I understand how he's growing into adulthood by not telling his friends what happened, I think it shows how adulthood can go too far. Independence is important, but so is the ability to know when you need to ask for help. To know that it's okay to need people in your life you can rely on
I think that will be an important thing for him to learn in the next movies.
@Nathan Thom It's a complex thing in a way. This was brought up in Spider-Man 2 as well.
@Thando Mthembu That can and does become toxic. The Eastern Asians do it right.
This is more so an American concept bcoz alot of eastern countries are about community
@Dakota Vanleer not really, friendships are not decided by a single party or any relationship for that manner. The truth is that Peter already has all the baggage in the form of knowledge of the past and what has been, lost and he is the one who will have to relive that past if he decided to to tell them as he promised. Even if he told them, that wouldn't bring them back to the same spot, it would Peter having the responsibility, with no guarantee of success
What if after telling them, the friendships don't blossom in the same way and Peter and MJ don't get together? You would then have Peter being around with the love of his life and having to settle; god forbid MJ date someone else.
Tom Holland’s Peter Parker is one of my favorite teenage characters ever.
There is always this weird portrayal of teens in media being inherently selfish, over-emotional, and self-destructive. And yeah, that can be true for a teen (even Peter in some aspects) but that’s also true for adults as well.
But teenagers have a lot of idealism and hope that a lot of us lose overtime. Peter is an extremely compassionate person who can be selfish and irresponsible, but like most teenagers he wants to do GOOD. He wants simple things like to hang out with his girlfriend or ask his crush to Homecoming. He wants to please his mentor, but also look out for the little guy. He wants to minimize his responsibilities because it’s so much pressure and he doesn’t believe in his own abilities.
Teenagers struggle so much because growing up and making sacrifices is so hard. Like other teens, Peter had to learn in the end that responsibilities are inevitable and constantly changing. There is always more work to do.
@Leah Camilleri props to you for being respectful and patient on sharing and receiving people's opinions!
@The Rizzler again, I’m not referring to bullying which people seem to think is the only way people can be negative to others. I keep saying it’s not always that overt.
You really haven’t read my comments have you. My view isn’t pessimistic it’s reality. Humans have a long and storied history of treating those who aren’t like them as odd. It’s not bullying that’s targeted and overt, it’s as simple as shutting out the odd kid or talking about them behind their back (everyone does it). I’ve seen it every time where someone is weird or odd but nice and people just sort of smile and nod while they’re around and then Talk about them behind their back.
You really need to open your eyes to reality. If you think people are generally good then you aren’t paying attention.
@Ian Corral You mean The Seven? And no. Not at all. You're in these comments acting like everyone is so horrible and terrible, but that's just not the case. I'm sorry that you've lived such an unfortunate life to where you think that, but even as someone who was bullied relentlessly for years, I know people aren't black and white. Most teen bullies don't grow up to be bad people. It's just how the brain develops. I'm not saying bullying is right, but it doesn't make them awful people. A lot of people don't like those who are different. That doesn't mean they wish them genuine harm. That's just not the case. If you truly believe everything you're saying, I recommend therapy. Your worldly view isn't realistic. It's pessimistic. There's a huge difference
@Durhandoni80 His history is literally on Wikipedia, dude had a smooth childhood and passed his exams at age 16. All that really happened is his family had to sell their business and move to Italy. So you’re still wrong dude, especially with the research that children that undergo hardships end up stunted as adults either through relationships or depression and anxiety.
It’s you who doesn’t know anything about the dude. Not to mention Einstein is an outlier. You can’t really compare the population to him.
Just shut up and quit trying to peddle this “forged in fire” nonsense.
One thing I loved about Pete and him being ‘neighborhood friendly Spider-Man’ was that he had this perspective of helping people, the little guy, that some of the other heroes seem to forget sometimes. Not like they are bad heroes or anything! Just when you are saving the world or a whole nation, it’s hard to imagine everyone. To see the effect their work has on a personal level. Spidey always had that with New York. Like New York City is a character in Spidey’s story. I don’t know how else to say it. Spider-Man was always my favorite hero because he always felt like a person just doing their best. Like the rest of us.
You took the thoughts regarding Tom Holland out of my head and turned them into words, Alan. The other two were just not kid enough.
My favorite part of the end scene with MJ is that, even when it's painfully obvious she has no idea who Peter Parker is, he has every intention of pushing through the awkwardness to keep his promise and "explain everything." It's only when he sees MJ is genuinely optimistic about her future for the first time and notices the bandaid over the cut on her forehead that he realizes how much bringing her back into the Spiderverse would cost her. She and Ned sacrificed their future helping him, and now that there's no memory of them as FOS, they're free to go to MIT and do whatever they want.
When MJ tells Peter, *"It doesn't really hurt anymore"* he reads that as *"losing you as my friend/boyfriend doesn't hurt anymore."* So he can finally be at peace that Ned and MJ will be happy living his dream, step back, and thank MJ for everything that she's done. Peter might stop by every few weeks as a casual customer (and might even ask MJ what she and "her friend" want to study at MIT), but he won't get any closer to keep them safe. In order for Spider-Man to live on, Peter Parker must disappear.
Watching this is... surprisingly healing. I grew up with parents who wanted me to be independent, yet didn't like it that I had my own opinions, my own interests, and wanted to do things differently. I wanted to go to uni, but not the course they wanted. I wanted to learn to cook, just not their dishes. I'm still being scolded even now in my late 20s, for trying new things. I don't know how to deal with my parents. But its good to hear again that I have the right to just, do things.
There were a lot of expectations for me to succeed in life. But I fell flat in uni. Because I didn't know how to manage my emotions, I wasn't taught to do that. My parents have invalidated me, so I thought I just shouldn't have emotions and have no right to feel negative feelings towards them. I now know that I can release it by finding support groups, renting spaces, talking to my parents about them etc. I'm preparing myself for the longer road ahead.
Honestly I love how everything that Quinton Beck does around Spiderman is a lesson for him. He teaches him exactly what he needs to succeed in the future of his superhero career whether he intended to or not. This includes the reveal of his identity to the public as it shows how he has to keep his identities as Peter Parker and Spiderman separate from each other because if he doesn't then that means that those who he loves will get hurt. Beck is amazing at teaching superheroes lessons despite being a supervillain even if it's just Peter Parker that he teaches.
“Don’t be in a rush for adulthood.”
Reminds me of that C.S. Lewis quote about putting away childish things. “When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
@Durhandoni80 Considering the context and some of Paul's other writings, he was summing up Paul's overall view point on the subject.
@The Learner I’ll keep that one in mind. Thanks!
I like how Lewis put someting biblical into something acutally mildly meaningful.
Lewis and I are kindred spirits in so many ways. One thing on my to-do list after reaching Heaven is to find Jack and take him to lunch.
@manny maker
both: I don't wanna grow up.
Jeff. There were so many silly things we liked to do.
Fred: Yes.
Jeff: Then we started growing up and now they're through.
Fred:YES!
Jeff: Being responsible is hard to do.
Fred: YES!!!
Jeff: I liked it more when it was just me and you.
A billy and Mandy song
The line "We don't treat people with respect because of who they are. We treat people with respect because of who we are." That hit deep
Dude, we need Spiderverse up in here. Not only because it's set in winter, came out around Christmas, and is getting a well deserved sequel next year, but because it's a damn fine movie.
It still blows my mind that they even got the other 2 legacy actors in No Way Home to do the things was such a cinematic joy and did everything I ever wanted. So good.
Public service meets fanservice done correctly
I love these movies because of small details like Peter having a building collapse on him and insticlualy cry out for help because he's just a kid, the little therapy session with Happy where he finally has a safe space to get out everything that he was worried about, and the interactions between Peter and MJ in No Way Home because you can tell that they love and care for each other. I love that last thing I mentioned because it feels genuine in a way we haven't seen with any previous version of this character in film. In the Rami trilogy, it feels more like a "Will they; Won't they" thing, in the TASM movies, it gets better, but it's closer to Hollywood love and care for each other. The MCU films are the only place that I feel these connections between Tom's Spidey and any other character in this universe, and I think I like them so much because it feels like how I would talk to these characters if they were real. These movies have helped me so much in my high school life and as embarassing as it is to say, Spider-Man helped me get through my freshmen year and most of my sophomore year so far. This character will always mean so much to me, especially the MCU's take on this character.
For me, Tobey, Andrew and Tom represent different aspects of Spider-Man
Tobey: Peter Parker
Andrew: The suit/Spider-Man himself
Tom: The balance between both of his identities.
Of course this is just how I see it🤷♂
All of them did fantastic in their roles and I like them all. Hopefully we get to see more in the future!
2:50 Fun fact about this line: Tom was supposed to move his leg but he forgot the blocking for the scene, so RDJ corrected him in the most Tony Stark way. Everyone loved it so much more than the original blocking, so they kept it in the final cut
@Mr. Hanfblatt I think that was in the script, but the leg story was unscripted, they talked about it in multiple interviews.
wasnt the same situation in the car, where he thinks RDJ is going for a hug?
I always tell people the reason I love Tom Holland as Spidey IS that scene of him trapped under the rubble. Because that one scene more than anything really made me think of him not just as a superhero but as a kid.
Thank you, gets, for reminding me why I love Spider-Man. And thank you for reminding all of us why we should aspire to be kind and gracious.
"gents". Geez.
You're very welcome!
I remember that scene in the first MCU spidey movie where Peter is stuck under the rubble and in that moment, Toms acting was so good my heart genuinely broke for Peter - in that moment I saw him as just a young boy
22:30 I took it as that Peter didn’t find a new mentor with the other peters but he found a new mentor in himself thus why at the end he’s alone because he can do it
One of the things that really interested my about Tony in Civil War is that, while being at war with Cap, Tony essentially adopts... Cap. Spiderman is another of those kids with that instinctive, innocent morality. (One major difference, of course, is that Peter is naive and sometimes has stunningly poor judgment and planning skills.)
The title "No Way Home", is extremely symbolic at the end, knowing that Peter has nobody, including MJ, Ned and Aunt May, who knows his secret. He literally and figuratively has no home to go back to.
@Pillars of Snow I wouldn’t even say Peter Parker is fate’s bitch. He chooses to tackle responsibilities and a consequence that means he has to acquire more power, which helps him procure higher level responsibilities without forgetting his past ones. It’s a feedback loop which has him standing in the middle of the hurricane.
“When you choose to stand in the centre of the hurricane you can’t complain about the rain.”
Jonathan Hickman’s Spider-Man
@Ribotto Studios I like this quote to describe Peter’s life
“Harry Potter is second only to Peter Parker as fate’s bitch”
@Juci Shockwave I agree but also sometimes we just don’t get the things we want even after we put 110%. I’ve had moments like that where I put that much into doing good, and sometimes never got what I worked for. Here - Tom Holland’s Peter is just a great example of what hope and I think resilience can bring to everyone.
@Ribotto Studios That is why Toms' Spidey is my favorite. He shows the reality of life. Even adults can relate to him. Despite the character being a teenager, an adult can relate to "sh!t happens and you just have to find another way around to it". Even if you get your diploma and work hard and demonstrate all of your abilities, the reality is everything will always be given to someone else who never worked truly a day in his/her life and everything always given him/her because of nepotism or other bureaucratic BS!
@Leif Eriksen oh I KNOW I was like "he had such a bright future, and it was just all torn away THIS SUCKS!" but it's Peter. He'll figure his way around the world.
Every time I see that scene where they say “with great power comes great responsibility” I get chills
I absolutely love your analysis! I've been a Spider-Man fan since I was tiny, and despite the love and obsession there is for Spider-Man, there's for little appreciation for what he is and represents. Tom Holland is my favorite Spider-Man for all of the reasons you guys mentioned. Spider-Man was such a huge part of my life, and I am so so happy with how he's represented, and how Tom portrayed Peter. I kind of got to grow up as a teenager with Tom's Spider-Man, and I think that helped me a lot.
I get why Peter looks up to Tony so much but it was always funny to me that he does since his ideals line up so much better with Cap. Like legit I think Tony saw so much of him and Steve in Peter and thought he could be better than both of them with a little help. Too bad Cap couldn't have been there for Peter more.
Edit: man now I really wanna see Bucky and Peter working together.
We see Peter cry in every one of his solo movies. We haven't seen that from any other Marvel character. I think it's an incredible look into Peter's growth as a person and a hero. This situations are meaningful to him. He's scared. He's regretful. He's learning. He's grieving. Becoming a hero is hard. Becoming an adult is harder. What a great character for kids to look up to.
I recently rewatched NWH, and I took issue with that scene in the donut shop at the end. MJ explicitly told him to not leave her behind before the memory wipe, and he essentially disregarded her wishes.
@Erik Kemeey Irrelevant. He still disregarded her wishes.
@Erik Kemeey Right, I understand that. It was terribly obvious. That doesn't change the fact that he decided by himself what's best for her contrary to what she asked of him.
he saw the bruise on her head and wanted to keep her safe
I grew up w Toby but LOVED Andrew since he was the closest to how spiderman is in the comics but Tom has that actual teen energy and u really FEEL that merging into his adulthood and watching him grow and mature. Spidermans perseverance and morality of everything is awe-inspiring
Thank u for doing this and can't wait for the spiderverse video!😄😄
Yup! Nailed it
"Come on, Spiderman!"
"When you can do the things I can do, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you."
My favourite lines by Peter.
Andrew admitting him not holding back, and killing his oppents got to me. His emotion, his pain, made me cry
One of my favorite things is noticing Tobey helping Holland through the grief, like when he noticed he didn't want to work on the goblin cure or just knowing to say that getting what you want won't make you feel better always.
The scene in homecoming where Tony said I'd hope you'd be better always gets me
Fun fact: The moment where Tony says "I'm going to sit here so you move the leg" was unscripted. Tom Holland missed his mark, so RDJ just threw that in so he'd scoot over and he could sit.
The scene where he decides not to tell his friends pivots really cleverly on a small moment. When MJ first cut her head and Peter asked if she was okay, she said "It doesn't hurt". When he asks her at the cafe, she says "It doesn't hurt any more". Maybe he's just remembering she was hurt through helping him, or maybe also realises she'd lied to him so he wouldn't stop to look after her. His life hurts those around him, but his friends won't stop that happening because what he does is too important. Like with Aunt May, they'll tell him everything is okay even when it isn't, so the only chance to make sure they're actually okay is to keep them far away from him.
She does mention that if he doesn’t tell her, that she would find out anyway. There’s an implication that MJ may still learn his identity and renew the relationship
Still chose the better outcome though instead of getting em killed later on
Yeah true
@Brook_55 Except he really did intend to do it up until that moment. He'd written a speech, gone to the cafe and was all set to introduce himself, and then changed his mind. I agree it sucks, but he made an honest promise, started to follow through on it and then found out new information that made him change his mind.
@Robbie Smith If the moment is just him remembering she got hurt then I totally agree that he was taking that choice back from her and it's an ironically selfish decision. If he was realising she'd been hiding her pain from him, it makes a lot more sense and is less selfish as he was making a new decision based on new information that she'd hidden from him. She's still getting no say in the matter, so I agree it's not fair, but it was the better choice and it was not possible to ask her again without making it so there was no way to take it back.
"When you do the things I do, and you don't, the fault is on you." As someone in a sort of Encanto family, this hit home. I want to help but idk how to utilize my skills and both me and the person I want to help suffers.
also this episode is so timely since I am also a kid moving into college, and independence, and young adulthood. I relate to Peter's pain and trying so hard to grow up, since I also did that and fucked up many times. This episode made me believe in my skills and just do things, even if I fuck it up, so I learn from it and be better. Thank you so much, Internet Dads😭
You don't have to know what to do all the time. Sometimes the best way to help is to ask "How can I help?" and listen
15:08 "Some people might not deserve respect, but we treat them with respect not because of who they are but because of who WE are."
THIS IS WHY I WATCH THIS CHANNEL!!!!!!
I love the hero and villain breakdowns you guys do. They’re some of my faves. If you guys are taking suggestions, I’d love to see a villain therapy for Draco Malfoy. I think there’d be a lot of interesting points to go over for him.
Spider-Man as a character has always been so fascinating to me psychologically. Each of the actors play the character so differently but so well for what they were trying to convey. I loved this analysis so much!!
One movie I would absolutely LOVE to see on the channel is "Monsters University"! The film really captures the pressures of young adulthood, family expectations, doing your best with what you're given, and it's just so heartbreaking in the best way. I think it could make a great analysis and video!
This channel has taught me so much in the fairly short time I've been watching. From dealing with my PTSD to grief to abusive parents to isolating to self-image, I have learned so much about not only myself but also how to better myself and be good to others. I've also learned a crap ton about the movie making process and as a writer who dreams of turning one of my pieces into some sort of film, that has been equally as informative and helpful and fun to learn about! So Jonathan and Alan, Thank you both so much for all that you do! We appreciate it so much!!
i really appreciate this episode as someone who's right in the middle of that transition period out of adolescence into adulthood. i feel like this period of life is hardly discussed in detail (at least in my life) so it's so nice to have a professional talking about it. it's really comforting.
Tom’s Spider-Man is the most underrated due to the fact that his struggles isn’t what “fans” go through. People forget that he is a teenager and as a teen myself his problems apply to my generation. The older generation hates this Spider-Man cause simply they don’t get it. They think we have everything, we have the technology, and everything is laid out for us but it’s not that easy. We go through the pressure of having to be successful to the point we lose ourselves trying to reach a standard that adults set for us. We are just kids but are expected to change the world. Sometimes transitioning into adulthood ain’t easy, it may take sacrifice of your youthful innocence but it’s life, and MCU Spider-Man is the one that gets this the most.
@Serena Leahy-Higgins - Your feelings of dread are nothing to scoff at nor are they feelings that weren't shared by many who came before you.
I was born in 1975 and I knew, before I hit puberty, that there was no way I was bringing children into this world, a world I was already witnessing degrading before my eyes. Some adults and others of my generation couldn't understand why I felt as I did. By the time I was in my 20s, the knowing had crystalized and I was adamant that NO, I would absolutely NOT bring children into this degradation. My marriage ended because my partner wanted children and I didn't. He couldn't understand why I was adamantly against it, but he hadn't been me as a child, a child who'd been watching closely as the birds and butterflies dwindled to the point that they're a rarity in most places. Oceans and rivers grew bogged down with plastic and toxic refuse, and whole swathes of forests disappeared. When I fly from the U.S. to Europe, I never fail to see the landscape that used to be the purest shade of white, from snow cover, grow mottled and a patchy dirty brown. I don't reserve window seats anymore, because it's too distressing to look at the landscape.
Many want to say there's nothing more wrong now than there's ever been. Those people.... Well, there are times I wish I was like them and could choose to not see or genuinely not perceive the truth at all.
You're not alone in your feelings of dread. Yes, your generation's had a far more difficult time ignoring the truth, due to how very evident it is now, but please know that there have been others before you who also carried that dread with them and still do. I live my life and help where I can, and I do my best to not add to the trauma.
as someone whos turning twenty in 2 days yeah...especialy when i think about the really logn term. i remember as a middles schooler feeling like my generation has to be the one to fix the mistakes of the past because were so far gone were losing our ability to survive ont he planet everythign is starting to fall apart and i still have night of no sleep cause of that existential dread of will there be a world in 40 years. i tell this to someone whose been through vietnam and the cold war and they scoff but its scary for me. im worried about whether or not i should have kids cause i dont know if theyll live a full life or if a really bad things gonna happen in 20 years. the pandemic and the past 2 years hasnt helped..the future is terrifying. people hail gen z as one of the most empathetic generations. they say millenials walked so we could run and im terrified that its too late...this is turning into a vent so i apologize but adults in their "infinite wisdom" often forget how big a picture teens and young adults can see. adults tend to get lost in the job and the day to day. ive been looking ahead since i was much younger than this...
@Maître Gino Hey. Hope you’re doing alright as well.
@Hop The Scorbunny Hey. Hope you’re doing alright.
@B 127 - "people who say he isn't relatable and are older shouldn't really have a say." Truly? If you honestly hold such an opinion, you've invalidated your own right to have a say in the matter.
One day, my oldest son (6 years old at that time) asked me "What it is to be a grown up?". And I didn't want to get into the dull part, like talking about taxes and boring, impossible to understand things like that for a child so young...
So, I just said "Being a grown up... is making choices and living with the consequences."
To this day, I still know adults (people who aged above 18) that are still not "grown up" if we take that sentence as a reference. I don't know how much this answer will help my son in his life. I just hope I said it right.
But, honestly, being an adult sucks. I'm just happy we get movies like the spideman's to entertain us while teaching us such valuable life's lessons. 💖
@Stephen Chin You think so? Thanks! I try my best, but, sometimes, it just feels so overwhelming.
You're a good parent
The “We treat people with respect not because of who they are, but because of who we are.” hit hard right in the feels. I finally feel seen and understood. I take this as encouragement to keep doing this.
Thank you internet dad Jono! Much appreciated encouragement. 🙏🏻😌
Tom is my favorite Spider-Man~
So glad you’re covering him. I feel like a lot people forget how young he is and just how much trauma he’s been through.
Tobey, Andrew & now Tom have all done a fantastic job as Peter Parker/Spiderman but Tom just took Spiderman & enhanced him just like Michelle Pfeiffer did with Catwoman I'm looking forward as to what they'll do with Miles Morales. On top of that you really feel the father/son relationship between Peter & Tony.
I love how every Cinema Therapy video I watch I learn something about myself.
I like that Peter chooses not to tell MJ and Ned who he really is at the end. So many innocent people, such as Aunt May, have died because they know that he's Spiderman, so ultimately they're better off not knowing him, sad to say.
@Amber Yes. It's pretty patronizing to make that call FOR her. And by doing so he strips so much of her personal development from her too. That's actually taking away some of her personhood!
@Npc I'm knot Exactly.
@HarlequinGnoll it should be there. if mcu doesn't f it up.
@M A. honestly I thought it would have been good if he wrote on her. arm his name or something. and she wakes up confused but let fate bring thrm back together. again, most of thr time when there is a memory wipe.. the person will be mad asf. especially when u made promises. but it brings up good conflict and story.... if they decide to bring in something like that.
@Tariq Thomas haha ya. like if those themes were explored that would be deep. cause it is kinda a theme in anime.
what gi es u the right to say u will protect us, u remember but we can't. to protect us? is that not a selfish sacrifice es.. good intentions but you take away someone's ability to make their own decisions.. cool deep stuff.
The quote at 15:14 is so good!!!!!!
“We treat people with respect not because of who they are, but because of who we are.”
I've seen all three different Spideys, and honestly ... Tom's my favorite. I'm an 80s kid who grew up watching the 90s Spider-Man series and yet I liked Spectacular Spider-Man FAR better. I love Tom's Spider-Man and I love Tom's Peter Parker. It's perfect to me, it was absolutely perfect casting, and I absolutely love him in everything he's in. I also love how much of a goober he is in real life xD
Andrew is still my favourite as spiderman, Tom as Peter. The strangest thing about the last film was how easy it was to tell the difference between the three of them in the suit. They're so completely different.
Toby will always have a special place in my heart, being the Spider-Man of my childhood. I definitely think Tom plays both parts (Peter and Spider-Man) the best, but no way him was the first true Spider-Man film, and I hope we get at least one true solo Spider-Man film with Tom Holland before passing the torch (meaning don’t introduce miles in the next movie, unless it’s a brief meeting to set up another movie).
I also do like Andrew, especially how he does Spider-Man. Him and Emma Stone also had great chemistry. Gwen is still my favorite love interest.
Tom's Spider Man is my favorite MCU Character. The movie came out shortly after my dad died and although I always liked Tom's Spidey, the last movie hit me pretty hard. I was angry at the world and wanted someone to pay for my father's death, for the pain it caused me. Although, of course, I knew that my father allowed me (wish) to have a nice and good young life.
This film gives me so much and is extremely important and significant to me when I am threatening to arrive from MY path.
No Way Home had me crying uncontrollably in the theaters. The ending hurts but I love and respect the decision he has to make. I just hate that he loses everyone he loves.
@The Rizzler Precisely, he should have never asked her for her opinion if at the end of the day he was just gonna do whatever he wanted. Don't make promises you will not keep. If you make a goddamn promise you keep it or do not make it at all. I sure hope in later movies he does not get another love interest. And if he comes back to MJ i hope she rejects him. Because otherwise that would be a terrible lesson for girls.
@manny maker Well, it's his life too and if he doesn't want people knowing HIS secret, they don't get to know. He thought he could handle the weight. Now, he knows he can't. That's character development
@The Rizzler I disagree. She has the autonomy to decide whether she wants to risk her life. it's her life, not his. If he cannot handle the weight of that he should have stated that he would NOT respect her wishes before he made everyone forget about him.
@manny maker It's either that or risk her life. She also told him it didn't hurt when they made the promise. He then got new information when she said "It doesn't hurt anymore." He made the right decision
it will be a mistake that will get Pete a slap in the face.
with great power comes with great responsibility.
but u have no right to make these types of promises and decisions for others. mj will hate Pete for a while when she realizes he lied. he claimed to do it for thrm when they explicitly said- make us remember. find us.
no different than the dad saying I'll be back and never coming back home after his pack of cigarettes and then years later sees his kids and say it was for thr best.
Definitely should have been a two-part episode. There's so much more!!
I cried when they all started swinging together i was like🥹 “they’re gonna make a multiplayer spiderman game”😭😭
When Peter is about to remind MJ who he is, and then she says, "It doesn't really hurt anymore"... that line gets me every time. It hits hard with the double meaning that only Peter is aware of. That sudden realization that *he* brings pain to the people he loves, so he has to walk away to keep them safe and happy... ugh, gut wrenching!
Also, I am *so excited* that you're doing Spider-Verse next, as it's my favorite movie of all time! (Most recently tied with Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.)
Part of me is so upset that we'll never get to see those three together in a movie again. I wanna see them be spiderbros more. The other part of me is so happy that No Way Home did happen.
It's not absolutely impossible. There's a low chance that they'll be referenced in a future MCU film and a significantly higher chance that the Spider-Verse sequel will show them on-screen or at least mention them.
I hope he stays on for more spider man stuff because he's really grown into this role and his acting is by far my favorite in that movie. When I saw it for the first time I could not stop thinking about it for days. No way home gave me so many emotions
When Tom Holland's Spider-Man had to forge his own way at the end of "No Way Home" living in a dingy apartment, applying to get his GED, sewing his own suit, and making the sacrifice saving everyone, but everyone forgetting him... that is when his character began for me.
I am excited for what his future in the MCU will be, especially if they stay true to the comics and have him mentored by Matt Murdock.
Now he's a proper Spider-Man rather than the Tony fanboy he was from Civil War to Far From Home.
I would say Daredevil in the comics isn't a mentor to Spider-man, more an equal
@Pocket Luna Oh yesss, Team Red and Midnight Sons are some teams I'm hopeful to see being adapted.
I would love some Team Red!
See that's Spiderman!
This channel is brilliant. Thank you guys. I always get a nice little mental lift after each episode :)
This is why Tom is my favorite. I love seeing Peter grow from a kid to a fresh adult. Even tho he lost everything he still got back up, he still does the responsible thing.
I was so happy they made Mysterio a villian. I knew even in the trailers where they were showing him "saving the day" that this was all a front because I know Mysterio from the shows and games. There was no way they were going to make him a wholesome mentor with no strings attached and I felt so justified when it was revealed to be all a grand illusion.
Another thing love about this movie is how it shows proper respect to the previous two Spider-Man especially my favorite Andrew Garfield and I also love how this movie also gives some level of closure with Andrew's Peter Parker arc cause he gets a chance to redeem the one big failure that haunted him in his movies and that's the death of Gwen Stacy by saving Tom Holland's MJ. That scene still to this day makes me cry cause he gets the resolution and redemption he was seeking and it the cherry on top is MJ asking Peter If he is ok. Which with his response makes me feel his mindset I was that I wasn't able to save the woman I loved but I saved you I saved you so this doesn't have to happen to another Spider-Man.
"We treat people with respect not because of who they are, but because of who we are " I will remember this
"When you lose people, there's always more people who can be there to help you" 22:42 True. I have from my own life, noticed, that when one friend goes away, there is someone else to help. I am never left alone for long.
One of my favorite descriptions of the Spideys is that Tobey is the best Peter Parker, Andrew is the best Spider-Man, and Tom is the best of both. Regardless of which is your favorite, I think all three brought forth a different aspect of Spidey and did incredible justice to the character. Lots of love for all the boys
I had no idea how much I needed all three Peters together in one movie.
Andrew and Toby are amazing - I will give them the props they deserve.
My favorite is hands down Tom Holland. He's just.... everything Spiderman. That guy IS Spiderman.
9:20 I know they don't typically talk about the comics, but this scene is a homage to one of the most iconic and formative moments for Peter in the comics and it would have added so much to their discussion of it if they had known.
I really love the scene right after happy’s speech where Peter is in the mobile lab jamming to AC/DC and you see it in happy’s eyes, pride for Peter growing up and learning the best from tony, becoming better than him in some ways
I really love your psychology of a hero series! It's really interesting to watch. One character that would be awesome to see you do would be Hawkeye as he always seemed to have a different mindset then the rest of the Avengers.
“We treat people with respect not because of who they are but because of who we are.” So profound and so true!
When I saw No Way Home it hit me so hard. I cried during the movie like everyone but when it got to the end and the credits started to roll, I started crying the hardest I had throughout the whole movie that I kind of freaked out my boyfriend. Spiderman/Peter Parker as a character means so much to me and even though he was meant to end up where he did as all iterations of Spiderman do, it just made me feel so sad because Spiderman is always losing what he loves most. He keeps going forward as Jono and Alan said in the video but it's so hard to watch sometimes. I know all stories don't have happy endings but I truly want to be able to see a happy ending for Spiderman where he gets to be with the ones he loves and not be alone anymore. It was a perfect ending for that film but I look forward to seeing this Spiderman find his way to happiness.
The scene where Peter is trapped underneath the cinderblock and he’s crying for help about being trapped and crying out “somebody help me” gets me every freaking time 😭