hey tony, just wanted to thank you for getting me involved in a field where i am now working in machining! nothing better than turning raw stock into scrap metal
The other side of that coin is the owner's issues. I had a friend who owned a high-tech shop, (some parts they made were for astronaut space suits) and when business was slow they would take on work at a loss rather than lay off highly-skilled employees. She said it was like wrapping a $20 bill around every part before shipping. (This was over 30-years ago.)
As a 10+ year machinist with college training, machining is my ideal career. The skills translate into so many other fields, it helps you understand mechanics of engines and mechanical features better, and is a heckuva lot of fun to use when making projects at home. If you're good at machining and you learn drafting, you're a stone's throw from engineering your own stuff, which is a fun and rewarding experience
My current job is as an accountant for a manufacturer. I don't step anywhere near a metal fabrication shop. You just explained to me why the collets my machinists are purchasing are so expensive. Thank you Tony!
i wish i had office people like you ... our guys don't even think about speeds and feeds and end up in shock when we tell them we almost caught the machine on fire (cnc routing wood)
I must have re-watched his entire catalogue at least 5 times. Best machining channel on the interwebs. Love the sense of humour and next level editing and subtle SUBSCRIBE plugs. Outstanding
@Bigjobs69 i figured it out .. A collet normaly clips in ... But mine didnt ... So it did never worked as it should .... My 5 milimeter collet had a (blade) saw cut that wasnt totally trough the metal ... So it did wanne bend in the way it should .... That made a rimm in the collet head ... So other collets also did not fit in the collets head ... They did not click in ...... But after when i took some material of the rill the collets start to fit .... Only the 5 milimeter collet not ... So then i figurd out that was the problem all the way and probably also of the owners before me .... Haha .. Glad i have my hardhead... Because some real pro's told me i had the wrong collets for this mill holder. ( pro's who build a massy fergyson 35 with a rolls royce v8 engine .. Who can go over 200 kilometers per hour ) haha crazy pro's
Thank you. I discovered your channel back when I had just started school for machining. I owe a lot of my grades and successes in school and since to learning the basics on your channel. I am now a machinist cutting graphite electrodes holding 0.0002 tolerance and would not have made it here as quickly without your channel
Haha i would double upvote if i could. Its another instant classic. You are like this cool, weird uncle i never had that knows all about his profession. Thanks for teaching stuff in a funny, easy understandable way. You are an idol and i admire you. Keep up the work, you are fantastic!
You and Abom are held in a really high place to me as far as machining goes, with that being said I really would've love to see you boar those collet into true center on the lath just as much as I wanted to see abom split those breaks calipers without using that funky vise
I love your videos. Your humor makes learning about the most mundane thing machine related is much appreciated. I don’t even machine, I find your channel quite educational. Great content! I’m a fan! 🤟🏼
My general tool purchasing philosophy has long been: When I buy a new tool for the first time I buy the cheap tool, then use it till that one breaks or fails (ostensibly because it either turned out to be too crude for my needs or I’ve used it enough for it to wear out and break.) But then when I replace the broken tool; I cough up the money and try to buy something I hope will last a lifetime.
While I might dream of genuine Rego collets, the sad fact is if I bought the originals, I would have spent so much that I could not afford much else. Caveat emptor. Maybe I can’t afford the dog.
Cleaning the burs from my set indeed did wonders to it, don't forget to check the inside too. That had the worst of them. It's always good to remember that these cheap things aren't a product but more of a kit of parts thing. Assume that you'll need to put in quite some effort in finishing them in order to get decent performance out of whatever you bought cheaply
Hi Tony, thanks for throwing some light on this murky subject. We foolish hobby machinists are always looking for a "good" deal, but there are some areas where it is too deadly to compromise. Can't tell you what a revelation I had when I finally got a decent milling vise and suitable parallels - things actually turn out square and true!
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I have no affiliation with metalworking or any actual interest in doing it myself, but every time you post a video I smile and put the kettle on. Always a great watch, and I'm sure this one will be too.
I’ve worked with many very talented electronics engineers in my career. Fortunately, some have the knowledge, talent, and compassion that can explain even the most complicated project to make another person be able to contribute to the project team. They can explain in many ways what you need to know. TOT is among those type of people. Cheers to TOT 👍
Me too. I just stumbled on this channel maybe a couple months ago and I find myself daily watching 6 year old videos. I heard Adam Savage mention TOT a few days ago. Makers enjoy makers I guess. Doesn't matter the discipline.
My use of collets begins and ends with my dremel, on soft materials, and I don't know the width of a human hair, but I was fascinated for the entire video. My rule of thumb has always been that it's ok to be cheap on things that aren't important and don't pose a safety hazard, but never be cheap on things that spin very fast, are sharp, can explode, or in any other way can do serious harm if something breaks. So no cheap collets for me.
I work in a profession that has absolutely nothing to do with machining (or manual labour for that matter), but thanks to Tony, I can impress my machinist father with my knowledge every now and then 👍
Coming from woodworking as a hobby I now know how I can even spend more on tools: do metalworking instead. So maybe I stick with the thing I can barely afford a little bit longer. But your videos are a joy to watch and I can learn something about I may never use, but the heck, they are funny and so well made! Would even watch you unboxing and using cheap tools with death runout of doom, as long as you wear the heavy duty security flip flops. Please don´t stop making videos.
I'm not a machinist and I'll never be buying collets but you've just described why buying a good quality tool actually saves you in the long run. Longevity for one. I have some tools my dad got 60+ years ago that are still better than some you can get today (wrenches and sockets) Blackhawk (well before it was bought by Proto in the 80s) for instance. Anyhow. Very interesting and amazing that what you buy isn't always what you get as far as tolerances etc. and how it can lead to very expensive frustration. You are an excellent and amazing teacher. Thank you.
Hey Tony, I want to thank you for putting me down this hobby path to help with my hobby racecar. Between the cost of the mill and lathe, tooling, time, learning, wasted stock and frustration…ahhhh it really is fun and rewarding. Thanks!
Your sense of humour never fails 🤣 I'm not a machinist myself, but I work in engineering research and I must say, being a regular viewer of your videos taught me a lot and has made me look much more experienced at work than I really am 🤣I'll owe some of my next raise to you !
As a retired electrical design engineer, a trip to the techs and some of the other disciplines that apply, early in design phases, can make you look a bit smarter, too. For me it was packaging guys, dynamicists, thermal, etc. as an electrical design engineer. Frequently I got asked where I was in the process from them, and I said 'not far', and they just looked at me funny. They were used to getting contacted when the shit had already hit the fan, in test and integration, where changes, at least in the military aerospace world, were far more expensive. I worked with some scientific/engineering researcher types a few times, and was usually in awe. One guy was designing materials from a molecular level, pretty much before that was a thing, and he could predict properties with fairly amazing accuracy, most of the time. The problem was he was BRILLIANT at that, and CLUELESS about how to make any of it producible. He was making materials that could be used in soft contact lenses that would sit out on a table for days without drying out. It's been a long time, but IIRC that was both a materials problem, and some surface geometry for further improvement. This was several decades ago. Now I'm sure it's SOP, at a much higher level. Did you see the moldable transparent plastic that was developed recently, with something like 12X the strength to weight of steel, INCREDIBLY impact resistant, very low porosity (small molecule, high pressure distribution systems), etc? Supposedly easily scalable to large production, with relatively minor process changes, and they predict uses all the way from STRUCTURAL building components (can you imagine looking into some skyscraper support structure and being able to see through it?), to space station windows (now VERY expensive and easily scratched sapphire, I think), to cars, to a LOT of things. If you saw the Star Trek movie, with Scotty giving out the transparent aluminum formula, they just demolished every aspect of that material. As often happens, Star Trek got it VERY close. :-) I am really hoping this tech is not another 'eternal technology of the future', like practical fusion power generation (so far, and for the immediate future, almost certainly). Oh yeah, the plastic gets those properties from a process developed for 3D lattice connections between layers, which apparently was doable before, but only for very short distances, until the process collapsed. Now they can just make sheets of it, apparently, or soon anyway, I can't keep up with anything, anymore, makes my eyes cross and my hair hurt, what's left of it, at my age. Truly amazing, and in every field you can think of, and more. Sometimes I am thankful for the back door of death coming in probably 20 years or so, and other times I think it would be cool to see the future, even though much of Fl won't be habitable for more than aquatic life, and other such problems, and relatively soon. Wow, that got off topic. My brain does that, and my filters have apparently all stopped functioning.
Hey Tony, there are 2 parts to your videos, the content which is always amazing. Then there is all the post video graphics, modelling and general make the video ‘super interesting to watch’, ‘stuff’. For all that sir, we truly thank you. PS Your tee sharts (as you know who would say😉) are washing and wearing very well. Kindest regards from Bonnie Scotland. Joe.
May I also say Find And view CEE " Cutting Edge Engineering " Australian Engineering You Tube Channel Australian Young Guy , His Wife , Their Dog .... Milling , making , Fabrication , Fixing , Welding ..... Big machinery , Parts , .... etc Worth the Viewing Thanks for reading " What man makes , He Destorys , then Refabricates " Thank you ToT
I love how these videos are from mistakes or failures, makes me know how important it is to learn how to fix problems and think about problems. It’s ok to be wrong if tony can be wrong ❤
I'm almost graduating mechanical engineering and your videos, besides being entertaining, have helped me in some topics. I've even referred you to one of my doctors because I learned so much about manufacturing processes from you ;)
I feel like I've learned a valuable lesson about how much time machinists think about sphincters. Really funny video, and even though I've never touched a mill in my life I feel like I've learned something fundamental about the trade. Thanks!
This is the video I needed, but not the video I deserve. I bought Chinesium collets knowing they were crap, and that better ones existed. I was oblivious to the issue (by choice/laziness), but you've convinced me. I also learned that it's much easier to just buy the clock measure as opposed to actually using it and dealing with reality 🙈
Hi Tony, I am a retired fitter and turner and worked for Seco Tools for 28 years here in New Zealand and we made a range of different collets and chucks etc. Tool run out is so important as you have explained and it really doesn't matter what size cutter you are using, unbalanced tool wear will show up. Its the same old question/answer, when you buy cheap you get cheap, no matter what it is. Side lock holders are the cheaper way to go where the tool run out is minimal and good for most applications. Many older machinist who have been around for a while will remember when Clarkson released their range of FC3 cutters. FC3 cutters were small HSS cutters up to 1/4 inch or 6 mm and were held in a side lock holder. They worked well. Hope this helps. Cheers Ian
I stopped buying Starrett hair gel when I lost my hair a couple of decades ago. I was suddenly flush with cash and able to purchase quality collets. Thanks for this video Tony. The level of quality(price) is always part of the equation and sometimes regrettable sacrifices are made.
I'm not a machinist, not even on a hobby level. Although I do like to tinker. Anyway, I watch all your stuff This Old Tony, not just for the cool stuff you make, but also for the wisdom you drop and the general good vibes! Thank you for all the great content!
I just checked checked some expensive ER collets. Royals I bought years ago. The 125 was out 7 thou. The shars one was 3. I checked them in High end collet chucks too. I was making some small mechanical parts That needed close tolerance holes. I made it through the job. Seems like even the most accurate machines have been the ones to fail me most often. It's a serious and I have seen scrap barrels full up parts for just this reason. You definitely made a great point. We get complacent sometimes and assume things. Haha
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Your videos are really a gem in the internet. Teaching and fun to watch at the same time. Greetings from a, now a little less frustrated, hobbyist in germany
I've been a machinist for 3 years now. Seeing that correlation between chip load and run out explains so much when it comes to some of our smaller endmills snapping seemingly at random. I might have to make it a point to do away with some of our old worn out collets. I am in charge of our tooling.
Replacing tooling that has tiny amounts of runout is a really hard concept to sell to management and or bean counters. It's maddening trying to explain that they are expending thousands in man hours to save hundreds. Sometimes the best course of action is to treat a tool like it only has a single flute regardless of actual flute count when setting up feed rate. We hate to do it but it's the world we live in sometimes.
@Mark Anonza I've been pretending to be a machinist for over 20 years now, somehow I've managed to repair and build all kinds of things, and people like to bring me things for me to pretend to be working on and paid for too. Not everyone has to deal with tenths of a thousandth or use CNC equipment, but what they can do is still better than what many others cannot...
I've heard of run out before, but I never thought it'd be an issue besides ending up with the wrong dimensions afterwards. I also miss the times when the price was an indicator for quality. These days there's once in a blue moon a high quality piece for a bargain, but more often than not, you get cheap junk for top money...
I would actually love to see the videos you spend a lot of time editing then trash, even hours long videos with no clear goal or set topic. I love your sense of humor and the way you explain things is extremely enjoyable and easy to understand. That aside it’s always great to see a new ToT video, keep up the great work
Always love your vids Tony. Entertaining, informative, clean hands....sometimes and always interesting. As a timber worker I don't watch em all 😶🌫️ but this one caught me. Had a similar problem which is weird considering I'm working with timber. Took me forever to find out....was more going on in my case but just know you aren't alone my friend. I've dragged my ugly face across the floor before. If only I had a smarter wife!
I found your channel a couple weeks ago and have been binge watching ever since. I gotta say, your videos are beautiful. They've really inspired me to -spend lots and lots of money- have a bit more fun with the videos I make. Thanks Old Tony
"Let's assume we're the sort of machinists who doesn't get hung up on exact dimensions" - That was the joke that pushed me over the edge on this one, well done sir!
ME student here - just finished our unit on fatigue analysis and couldn't figure out why the runout diagram looked so familiar. Then it clicked. So cool to see something so abstract made concrete!
One thing you didn't address was the collet inside taper, which many times get warped or cracked by someone overtightening the collet nut, or sometimes being wrecked. Ive seen it a zillion times. The collets I normally buy new are at least 25 to 35 bucks apiece. Cheap isn't better, especially when you are paying the bills.
Thank you, Tony. I wait impatiently for each new video. Ithink I have watched most of your back catalog (that's still up on YT) and I have even being workin through AvE's back catalog to get a fix (I mean, AvE's great, but there are definitely differences in style and tone). I could imaging you and AvE switching workshops and both going insane from it.
Your writing always gives me the chuckles but it's the editing that really makes me pause the video to laugh. No one has better placed, harder cuts than this particular old Tony
We use Rego-Fix collets at work. They are pricey but you don't really have to worry about runout. We also use torque wrenches wherever possible. I'm running a Swiss lathe so it's not always possible to use a torque wrench.
I use the solid 1/8 ones with set screws. They cost 80$ each, but you can micro tweak out all the runout. 75 parts vs 1000 parts in a production setting. I also used paint markers or dots of antiseize on the taper in a pinch. I feel your pain.
Really useful video, thanks! I invested in a couple of Nikkon collets after advice from a friend and they're superb but I could easily have seen myself making the mistake of buying cheap and getting frustrated if nobody had told me.
I bought a couple 1/4 collets last year (2x for $5 i think) and i just double checked em (visually). They are impressively clean. A pretty high grit perfectly straight sanding pattern (maybe 1500+ grit) around them and in 1 direction over both holes. 0 burrs. Really surprisingly cleanly made. Way better looking than your bits. I guess it varries a lot between batches / budget brands. I just wanted to add that some may be great based on the appearance of mine.
During the dramatic buildup to the runout reveal question coming from Mrs. Old Tony, I was screaming, "Torque! You over tightened them! The endmills are under too much stress and snapped!" Obviously...I was wrong, but what do you think over-torqueing on a tool might do? Should one always just torque down to the German torque spec of "good-n-tight"? ☺
You could relegate the worse tool holders for tools that you only use for softer materials, I suppose. For example only for woodworking stuff, if you have enough need for that. By the way, I wanted to say, as some others have commented this as well: I'm currently in my last semester for a metal tech trade education and have been watching you since before I entered this program. Despite you being a colonial and sometimes using the wrong measurements (without translating them as you have done in this video - thanks!), you've been a source of inspiration, especially at times where the education was more boring than useful. God willing, in five years I'll be on my way to my Master title, and in ten, I'll have my own little workshop to mess around with, and my own nagging wife and children that break things.
I have had decent success with Amazon ER collets! While I haven't had a run out issue, even on small endmills, I have worn a few out running them hard in my VMC. Great video! I'm looking forward to the next one!
collet quality aside, the proper torque values are really important. It is especially easy to over-torque small collets which can cause them to skew or warp slightly
@Beam Trading I would expect your ER wrench to be a standard imperial or metric size. I have a "hobby grade" CNC with a huanyang spindle and ER20 collets. The wrenches I use are 23mm and 30mm. You should be able to find a suitable crow's foot.
@John Zitterkopf Torque for a given collet will always be the same regardless of manufacturer simply because of the geometry of the collet. What changes torque values more than anything is using different types of collet nuts.
I wondered why I would occasionally break bits doing the same CNC operation that had worked before. After watching this video, I checked one of my collets and sure enough, out by over 3 thou. I'm sure the rest are just as bad. Not sure if I feel better now that I know or not. LOL thanks Tony.
Oh my goodness what a timely video!! I've been cutting some parts recently and am repeatedly breaking the small endmills. Nothing I tried was making it work. Came across this video and decided it was worth a try. Replaced my 1/8" collet today and the machine has been running flawlessly for a couple hours now. THANK YOU!
Holy shit, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a KZclipr with a better sense of humor than this man. Never did I think I’d find THE internet funny man in a machining video of all places
Also, in a production environment, your tool changer cannot have chip intrusion of any kind. This is a huge plus for multi spindle machines. Swiss lathes are great for this, or the fuancy mills designed to stay clean. Most likely the only solution might be to suck it up and pause the machine at those tool changes to clean the taper. May quotes have been sent to low leaving grown men in a puddle of tears because of this. :(
Another rock solid video TOT! As a non-machinist who aspires to do more with this hobby I totally understand the conflict. The "how much of this hobby am I doing to justify the higher price tool" dilemma is real. Lots to think about and thanks a ton for sharing. BTW @14:03 I was sure you where going to cut to kids hands for the "kid in me" part like the old Frosted Mini-Wheats commercials.
@Richard Allsebrook That's also been my approach with learning to play the bass. At my level I can't tell the difference between a $200 and $2000 guitar while fumbling through major scales and Seven Nation Army
Your progress through the hobby dictates it. As you get better, you need better tools. And with better tools, you can move on to bigger and better builds... I'm a scale modeller for example. You start with cheap paints and brushes, get to the point where you can't improve your models because your brushes and paints are now the limiting factor - so you upgrade...
Tony is like the old head in the shop that has already done all the expensive mistakes in the shop and tries to impart some knowledge in us to stop our growing bitterness towards the world
I've always suggested that buying tools is a balance; you have to put some kind of monetary value on your time, and work out if the time it takes to work around is going to be more cost-effective than buying the right tool and doing it in less time (looking at you circlip pliers), and that you've also got the tool for next time. it pretty much applies to matching the flaws in tool holders, if the time it takes to match it up is of less value than the difference in the cost of better quality tools, then fine, keep doing it. if you're a hobbyist and you're doing it for 'fun' your time probably has a low monetary value, and matching tooling might even be part of the fun.
I know you won't see this (or at least, you better not, as KZclip comments are on the 7th level of hell), but Tony, you make me legit cry with laughter sometimes. You are something so important in this modern era we find ourselves. Thanks so very much for being you, and don't stop doing it.
6:44 I was not expecting that. And I'm an internet expert on machining, having watched most of yours and everyone else's extremely informative KZclip videos. Haven't touched so much as a drill press since high school... but I like to believe the internet taught me well.
At my former place of work, we used a five thou diameter end mill on one of our processes in stainless. Five thou! .005! You could break the thing by looking at it funny. Sometimes I'd spend upwards of 20 minutes just dialing in the runout to a tenth or less. During that, I'd swap out collects, knock the collet around with a mallet, swap, measure, swap, measure. You learn pretty quickly that some collets are just wildly better than others. And some tools holders are just not up to the task. Cheers, thanks for the video.
it's got to be 45 years since I used a milling machine, but this was strangely need to know. At least you mentioned a Dremel collet ;) Enjoyable content.
Very enlightening. Thanks brother. I use ER32 collets to hold the chamber reamers for barrels. Sure enough, Chinesium collet has runout. Stoned the burs like you mentioned then used a smaller collet in the set to drill it concentric on my lathe centers. Collet on my tailstock. Laser engraved an idex mark. Presto.... perfect inline solid reamer holder!
Just how many out of spec chambers did you cut with a crooked reamer? Seems like you should have been using quality tools from the beginning when you're doing work for customers.
Hi Tony Just noticed 1 more thing that will mess your runout up,at 16:51 when you unscrew your colletnut you can see that the collet is twisted,if you check the slits in the collet they are not all the same size and they should be,the collet is not slipping in the nut and holder at the same rate when you tighten it. Just to add more complexity to the sphincterholding of tools ;).
I don't machine, but I love watching machining videos, which is how I stumbled upon your channel. I do however have a cnc router for wood and soft metals, and have struggled at times with breaking smaller bits with no explanation. I too bought the el-cheapo ER20 collets because I didn't think it mattered, but now thanks to this video I can't wait to get home and check the run out on them. If I find that the run out is minimal and couldn't be the problem, then I guess I have to accept the fact that the reason for the failures could only mean that I am idiot. Either way, you have shown me the light. Awesome content, good sir. I am subscribed.
Believe the last collet is a TG series collet. Came in different sizes also like the ER. I find that a single taper ETS collet(ER collet w a flat top) is far superior to any of the ER collet for concentric and holding
Hi Tony! I would have liked to see you measure runout in the collet holders, and swap bad collet for good in the good and bad holders to try and detect if the problem was the holder or the collet, maybe after de-burring the chinesium collet.
Tried to make my wife watch this gem with me to explain why I'm sinking a ton of holding into my tool fund. She's still giggling about the sphincter joke, so we're not done yet.
Also, I got a laugh out of breaking out the big book. Reminding me of college (mine required buying all textbooks new) and having to pay for Eshbach which we referred to as Esh”brick”. It was going to be a bad study night if you had to open it.
Tony, as always, a wonderful video. humor is present, it's great! everything you said is absolutely true. I support all that has been said. I, your long-time subscriber, have one small request - add metric values to all imperial values. this makes it incredibly easier to perceive your slo
Imagine my excitement when, out of the KZclip chatter, I saw another ER collet runout vid... But wait, it's from This Old Tony. I missed a breakfast date but I'm sure I can find someone who can understand my excitement over a new TOT post. Thank you for the work you put into making videos and for making my day a fair bit better.
true words... "used" tools or reselled ones at flea markets after closure of factories are sometimes better than new ones... I bought myself all the drill bits for the lathe in any dimension at a ridiculous price even if they were new and branded !!! I have even reselled some of those bits ahahah
this entire video has been a learning experience to me i knew literally nothing about milling, collets, or even run outs. your videos are really well done and easy to follow along with, one of the best 19 minutes of youtube i've watched keep up the stellar work my friend
Wow. Well then, you're in for a treat. He slices, he dices, and his one-inch punch cuts steel like butter. Just avoid the control panel labeled "Time Machine".
Wow, just checked my import ER32 collet set, and sure enough, my imperial collets are not that imperial. Also, they measured .0006" T.I.R., which is probably ok for what I do. However, I bought a ER32 collet from Frank M, that is actually imperial sized, and it measures .0003" T.I.R. as advertised. I may get these at least for my smaller diameter cutters. Thanks for posting that video clueing me in to that potential issue!
I once thought I would take up duck hunting. Until I figured with armor, ammo, camouflage,boat and fines for being colorblind and losing all my stuff to the game warden. the bottom line is the first duck would be tens of thousands of dollars. I have been buying tool since I was 10. It really irritates me to find out I was trying to save money to buy an illusion of a tool or a broom or whatever I purchased. But I sometimes still buy cheap tools because I can’t justify spending ten times the money for something I need for a week. The problem is that it doesn’t last the week. Somewhere along the way we outsourced quality, integrity and the American way. Duck hunting and machining are much the same for me. It is often cheaper for some else to cook me a duck. Thanks for your content, humor and dedication to machinists everywhere.
Great, now I'm going to have to check the runout on ALL of my ER32 collets. I tend to only break end mills when I either try to hog out too much material, or set my feeds and speeds wrong. When I [eventually] get a CNC mill, I'm going to be damned sure to get a name brand/quality set from the start. The old "buy once, cry once" model. That being said, I LOVE using the ER32 to R8 holder I have mounted in my manual mill. I bought a set of small increment collets so that I could use off sized drill bits in the setup (for drilling/reaming smaller holes).
Would it be possible to remachine the bore of the collet? A little larger than spec but not so large that it won't cinch down on the tool. Maybe with a little media blasting with like a silica powder to get in the small nooks and and crannies to deburr the part?
My hobby is woodworking, but some of the same rules apply. My Dad taught me to buy quality tools. I don’t have enough money to buy the cheap stuff. “Buy once, cry once”, is so accurate. Thanks for a great video!
I still believe in "buy cheap, if it breaks, buy expensive" because there are actually a handful of tools that I literally used just once, then there are others that were cheap but are surprisingly good. I saved money by buying cheap stuff for those. Only some things where I know I'm gonna use it a ton, I bought the good things right away, like with my table saw.
@Will Swift Potentially, but that entire time you're also working with tools that don't perform as well. I also generally prefer to spend money with the people who try to do a good job with what they manufacture rather than hoping to sell you 10 of the same flawed thing when the others break.
I hate it when I'm working on something and my drill dies, then I gotta hold the trigger in and spin around the bench. It's worse when it happens while I m hanging drywall...
Your not alone as a automotive tech. New parts suck! New isn’t always good. Which is just mind blowing. Yes a lot of the times we do oem. But not everyone can afford oem. And unfortunately they both suck about the same. Now granted I always say money buys. A lot of products that are expensive don’t get purchased so often so they have to have high prices. Kinda what I realized lately. Thanks for the great video tony!
What an amazing video, great job! There will be a "Watching KZclip with Mom" learning adventure for myself and my 17 year old son happening in our house this evening 🤣
Hey TOT i know I'm a little late to the show here but I'm curious if you could machine the collet and and collet chuck to be Concentric with each other? ... though I can't think of a way to fixture the collet. Anyway always good to see you explain something new even if it sends you in to madness from time to time
4:09 Shots fired! I wish I could find a 1/2" collet for my very discontinued Freud router, but in my searches, it appears my only hope is if someone is selling parts from theirs. It must have been a very proprietary collet. I bought the unit used and it only came with the 1/4", which is kind of hilarious for a 3.25hp unit.
Almost like having a bad chuck, same but different. You know the one chuck that someone chucked something at the very end of the jaws and cheater pipe handled it close; forever springing the chuck body. Such a chuck that will never properly hold round stock again. Those collets were possibly ground such to exhibit the same issue described here with the chuck. Grabbing the back but still loose at the nose. Thanks for the video, good subject. Cheers!
Hi Tony, another great video. Yes I have a set of chinese ER32 collets and yes they have run out, I found loads of swarf left in the slots when I inspected them, stops them closing up equally. I cleaned them up somewhat and this helped. Another trick I found which helped was to rework the collet by putting it in the collet chuck on the lathe without a piece of work and close them right up and dress them with some tool steel rod and abrasive paste. That helped and I now have a set of fairly acurate ER32 collets. I tried the same trick with ER11 though and they are just junk, even after remachining the collet. I must keep my eyes open for some 2nd hand decent ones. Thanks you for all you video's Tony, I look forward to each of your productions.
![[CHOREOGRAPHY] 지민 (Jimin) 'Like Crazy' Dance Practice](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uatW2Phormk/mqdefault.jpg)
hey tony, just wanted to thank you for getting me involved in a field where i am now working in machining! nothing better than turning raw stock into scrap metal
The other side of that coin is the owner's issues. I had a friend who owned a high-tech shop, (some parts they made were for astronaut space suits) and when business was slow they would take on work at a loss rather than lay off highly-skilled employees. She said it was like wrapping a $20 bill around every part before shipping. (This was over 30-years ago.)
I loved when the guys at my last job would talk about making chips. The quality of the chips, the amount of chips.
I'm clowning in here with a degree in Criminology. Big sad.
As a 10+ year machinist with college training, machining is my ideal career. The skills translate into so many other fields, it helps you understand mechanics of engines and mechanical features better, and is a heckuva lot of fun to use when making projects at home. If you're good at machining and you learn drafting, you're a stone's throw from engineering your own stuff, which is a fun and rewarding experience
My current job is as an accountant for a manufacturer. I don't step anywhere near a metal fabrication shop. You just explained to me why the collets my machinists are purchasing are so expensive. Thank you Tony!
@brendan wakeley yes haha
@Mark M most people don't realize how hot things get when you cut them lol.
I’m devastated you’re not actually a gaming scientist.
@Mirko1891 lmfao at the bean counters thinking wood is fireproof.
i wish i had office people like you ... our guys don't even think about speeds and feeds and end up in shock when we tell them we almost caught the machine on fire (cnc routing wood)
Oh it’s great to see ToT again! Anybody else just go back and rewatch his other videos because no other machinist channels hit the spot like he does?
I agree completely. I like the way he explains things.
I must have re-watched his entire catalogue at least 5 times. Best machining channel on the interwebs. Love the sense of humour and next level editing and subtle SUBSCRIBE plugs. Outstanding
@Bigjobs69 i figured it out .. A collet normaly clips in ... But mine didnt ... So it did never worked as it should .... My 5 milimeter collet had a (blade) saw cut that wasnt totally trough the metal ... So it did wanne bend in the way it should .... That made a rimm in the collet head ... So other collets also did not fit in the collets head ... They did not click in ...... But after when i took some material of the rill the collets start to fit .... Only the 5 milimeter collet not ... So then i figurd out that was the problem all the way and probably also of the owners before me .... Haha .. Glad i have my hardhead... Because some real pro's told me i had the wrong collets for this mill holder. ( pro's who build a massy fergyson 35 with a rolls royce v8 engine .. Who can go over 200 kilometers per hour ) haha crazy pro's
@Rene De Jong Try cleaning all the oil and grease off and lubricating with graphite powder.
%100
Thank you. I discovered your channel back when I had just started school for machining. I owe a lot of my grades and successes in school and since to learning the basics on your channel. I am now a machinist cutting graphite electrodes holding 0.0002 tolerance and would not have made it here as quickly without your channel
Haha i would double upvote if i could. Its another instant classic.
You are like this cool, weird uncle i never had that knows all about his profession. Thanks for teaching stuff in a funny, easy understandable way. You are an idol and i admire you.
Keep up the work, you are fantastic!
I’ve definitely used the indexing method for compensating for run out in a collet, 9 out of 10 times it does the trick! Thanks Old Tony!
I don’t think I’m ever going to see a collet again and not think of “the sphincters of the machine world”. Thanks Tony.
hahah I know, I'm scarred for life!
Mwahahahah! Me too!
@Richard Allsebrook 'dirty spine' LOL
@evracer Hahahaha brilliant.
@Mr. Shankly I heard "Cut off a piece of dirty spine" the other day - I think it's from Viz :D
You and Abom are held in a really high place to me as far as machining goes, with that being said I really would've love to see you boar those collet into true center on the lath just as much as I wanted to see abom split those breaks calipers without using that funky vise
I love your videos. Your humor makes learning about the most mundane thing machine related is much appreciated. I don’t even machine, I find your channel quite educational. Great content! I’m a fan! 🤟🏼
My general tool purchasing philosophy has long been:
When I buy a new tool for the first time I buy the cheap tool, then use it till that one breaks or fails (ostensibly because it either turned out to be too crude for my needs or I’ve used it enough for it to wear out and break.)
But then when I replace the broken tool; I cough up the money and try to buy something I hope will last a lifetime.
While I might dream of genuine Rego collets, the sad fact is if I bought the originals, I would have spent so much that I could not afford much else. Caveat emptor. Maybe I can’t afford the dog.
Cleaning the burs from my set indeed did wonders to it, don't forget to check the inside too. That had the worst of them. It's always good to remember that these cheap things aren't a product but more of a kit of parts thing. Assume that you'll need to put in quite some effort in finishing them in order to get decent performance out of whatever you bought cheaply
Hi Tony, thanks for throwing some light on this murky subject. We foolish hobby machinists are always looking for a "good" deal, but there are some areas where it is too deadly to compromise. Can't tell you what a revelation I had when I finally got a decent milling vise and suitable parallels - things actually turn out square and true!
I've said it before and I'll say it again - I have no affiliation with metalworking or any actual interest in doing it myself, but every time you post a video I smile and put the kettle on. Always a great watch, and I'm sure this one will be too.
I’ve worked with many very talented electronics engineers in my career.
Fortunately, some have the knowledge, talent, and compassion that can explain even the most complicated project to make another person be able to contribute to the project team. They can explain in many ways what you need to know.
TOT is among those type of people. Cheers to TOT 👍
@Brah, Trumpwon,bigly ong i never even knew what machining was but once i got like 30 minutes on a lathe it was over for me
Me too. I just stumbled on this channel maybe a couple months ago and I find myself daily watching 6 year old videos. I heard Adam Savage mention TOT a few days ago. Makers enjoy makers I guess. Doesn't matter the discipline.
I've tried wearing kettles, now I just stick with T-shirts.
I’ve always had just some hand tools but I’m hopelessly addicted to machining. Maybe breaking my own endmills could cure me?
My use of collets begins and ends with my dremel, on soft materials, and I don't know the width of a human hair, but I was fascinated for the entire video.
My rule of thumb has always been that it's ok to be cheap on things that aren't important and don't pose a safety hazard, but never be cheap on things that spin very fast, are sharp, can explode, or in any other way can do serious harm if something breaks. So no cheap collets for me.
I work in a profession that has absolutely nothing to do with machining (or manual labour for that matter), but thanks to Tony, I can impress my machinist father with my knowledge every now and then 👍
Coming from woodworking as a hobby I now know how I can even spend more on tools: do metalworking instead. So maybe I stick with the thing I can barely afford a little bit longer. But your videos are a joy to watch and I can learn something about I may never use, but the heck, they are funny and so well made! Would even watch you unboxing and using cheap tools with death runout of doom, as long as you wear the heavy duty security flip flops. Please don´t stop making videos.
I'm not a machinist and I'll never be buying collets but you've just described why buying a good quality tool actually saves you in the long run. Longevity for one. I have some tools my dad got 60+ years ago that are still better than some you can get today (wrenches and sockets) Blackhawk (well before it was bought by Proto in the 80s) for instance.
Anyhow. Very interesting and amazing that what you buy isn't always what you get as far as tolerances etc. and how it can lead to very expensive frustration.
You are an excellent and amazing teacher.
Thank you.
Hey Tony, I want to thank you for putting me down this hobby path to help with my hobby racecar. Between the cost of the mill and lathe, tooling, time, learning, wasted stock and frustration…ahhhh it really is fun and rewarding. Thanks!
Your sense of humour never fails 🤣 I'm not a machinist myself, but I work in engineering research and I must say, being a regular viewer of your videos taught me a lot and has made me look much more experienced at work than I really am 🤣I'll owe some of my next raise to you !
As a retired electrical design engineer, a trip to the techs and some of the other disciplines that apply, early in design phases, can make you look a bit smarter, too. For me it was packaging guys, dynamicists, thermal, etc. as an electrical design engineer. Frequently I got asked where I was in the process from them, and I said 'not far', and they just looked at me funny. They were used to getting contacted when the shit had already hit the fan, in test and integration, where changes, at least in the military aerospace world, were far more expensive.
I worked with some scientific/engineering researcher types a few times, and was usually in awe. One guy was designing materials from a molecular level, pretty much before that was a thing, and he could predict properties with fairly amazing accuracy, most of the time. The problem was he was BRILLIANT at that, and CLUELESS about how to make any of it producible. He was making materials that could be used in soft contact lenses that would sit out on a table for days without drying out. It's been a long time, but IIRC that was both a materials problem, and some surface geometry for further improvement. This was several decades ago. Now I'm sure it's SOP, at a much higher level.
Did you see the moldable transparent plastic that was developed recently, with something like 12X the strength to weight of steel, INCREDIBLY impact resistant, very low porosity (small molecule, high pressure distribution systems), etc? Supposedly easily scalable to large production, with relatively minor process changes, and they predict uses all the way from STRUCTURAL building components (can you imagine looking into some skyscraper support structure and being able to see through it?), to space station windows (now VERY expensive and easily scratched sapphire, I think), to cars, to a LOT of things. If you saw the Star Trek movie, with Scotty giving out the transparent aluminum formula, they just demolished every aspect of that material. As often happens, Star Trek got it VERY close. :-) I am really hoping this tech is not another 'eternal technology of the future', like practical fusion power generation (so far, and for the immediate future, almost certainly). Oh yeah, the plastic gets those properties from a process developed for 3D lattice connections between layers, which apparently was doable before, but only for very short distances, until the process collapsed. Now they can just make sheets of it, apparently, or soon anyway, I can't keep up with anything, anymore, makes my eyes cross and my hair hurt, what's left of it, at my age. Truly amazing, and in every field you can think of, and more.
Sometimes I am thankful for the back door of death coming in probably 20 years or so, and other times I think it would be cool to see the future, even though much of Fl won't be habitable for more than aquatic life, and other such problems, and relatively soon. Wow, that got off topic. My brain does that, and my filters have apparently all stopped functioning.
Hey Tony, there are 2 parts to your videos, the content which is always amazing. Then there is all the post video graphics, modelling and general make the video ‘super interesting to watch’, ‘stuff’. For all that sir, we truly thank you. PS Your tee sharts (as you know who would say😉) are washing and wearing very well. Kindest regards from Bonnie Scotland. Joe.
May I also say
Find And view
CEE " Cutting Edge Engineering "
Australian Engineering
You Tube Channel
Australian Young Guy , His Wife , Their Dog ....
Milling , making , Fabrication , Fixing , Welding ..... Big machinery , Parts , .... etc
Worth the Viewing
Thanks for reading
" What man makes ,
He Destorys , then Refabricates "
Thank you ToT
tell your supervisor This Old Tony said you deserve a raise.
I love how these videos are from mistakes or failures, makes me know how important it is to learn how to fix problems and think about problems. It’s ok to be wrong if tony can be wrong ❤
I'm almost graduating mechanical engineering and your videos, besides being entertaining, have helped me in some topics. I've even referred you to one of my doctors because I learned so much about manufacturing processes from you ;)
I feel like I've learned a valuable lesson about how much time machinists think about sphincters.
Really funny video, and even though I've never touched a mill in my life I feel like I've learned something fundamental about the trade. Thanks!
A lot of machinists do tend to be anal about their stuff.
This is the video I needed, but not the video I deserve. I bought Chinesium collets knowing they were crap, and that better ones existed. I was oblivious to the issue (by choice/laziness), but you've convinced me. I also learned that it's much easier to just buy the clock measure as opposed to actually using it and dealing with reality 🙈
Hi Tony, I am a retired fitter and turner and worked for Seco Tools for 28 years here in New Zealand and we made a range of different collets and chucks etc. Tool run out is so important as you have explained and it really doesn't matter what size cutter you are using, unbalanced tool wear will show up. Its the same old question/answer, when you buy cheap you get cheap, no matter what it is. Side lock holders are the cheaper way to go where the tool run out is minimal and good for most applications. Many older machinist who have been around for a while will remember when Clarkson released their range of FC3 cutters. FC3 cutters were small HSS cutters up to 1/4 inch or 6 mm and were held in a side lock holder. They worked well. Hope this helps. Cheers Ian
I stopped buying Starrett hair gel when I lost my hair a couple of decades ago. I was suddenly flush with cash and able to purchase quality collets.
Thanks for this video Tony. The level of quality(price) is always part of the equation and sometimes regrettable sacrifices are made.
Starrett also makes shaving gel and aftershave. Nothing turns on women like a man smelling of sulfated cutting oil!
@Brilliant Design! or he was pulling it all out due to runnout from the cheep collets :p
Lost your hair? I suspect it is because you were buying the cheap, chinese knock-off hair gel in the counterfeit Starrett box.
Hair or Quality collets? 🙆♂
👱♂ Well that's an easy choice.🗜
You never cease to give me a good couple of laughs in each video. Golden as always
Yeah buddy! Great to see ya again. Always good laughs, and such great learnings from the struggles we have as makers of scrap metal.
I'm not a machinist, not even on a hobby level. Although I do like to tinker.
Anyway, I watch all your stuff This Old Tony, not just for the cool stuff you make, but also for the wisdom you drop and the general good vibes!
Thank you for all the great content!
I just checked checked some expensive ER collets. Royals I bought years ago. The 125 was out 7 thou. The shars one was 3. I checked them in High end collet chucks too. I was making some small mechanical parts That needed close tolerance holes. I made it through the job. Seems like even the most accurate machines have been the ones to fail me most often. It's a serious and I have seen scrap barrels full up parts for just this reason. You definitely made a great point. We get complacent sometimes and assume things. Haha
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Your videos are really a gem in the internet. Teaching and fun to watch at the same time. Greetings from a, now a little less frustrated, hobbyist in germany
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I've been a machinist for 3 years now. Seeing that correlation between chip load and run out explains so much when it comes to some of our smaller endmills snapping seemingly at random. I might have to make it a point to do away with some of our old worn out collets. I am in charge of our tooling.
Replacing tooling that has tiny amounts of runout is a really hard concept to sell to management and or bean counters. It's maddening trying to explain that they are expending thousands in man hours to save hundreds. Sometimes the best course of action is to treat a tool like it only has a single flute regardless of actual flute count when setting up feed rate. We hate to do it but it's the world we live in sometimes.
@Mark Anonza I've been pretending to be a machinist for over 20 years now, somehow I've managed to repair and build all kinds of things, and people like to bring me things for me to pretend to be working on and paid for too. Not everyone has to deal with tenths of a thousandth or use CNC equipment, but what they can do is still better than what many others cannot...
@hxhdfj ifzir st c I'm a semi pretend machinist and will happily take any of those trash destined tools off anyones hands ;)
@Gottenhimfella that's where a good set of precision ground pins comes in
I've heard of run out before, but I never thought it'd be an issue besides ending up with the wrong dimensions afterwards.
I also miss the times when the price was an indicator for quality. These days there's once in a blue moon a high quality piece for a bargain, but more often than not, you get cheap junk for top money...
I would actually love to see the videos you spend a lot of time editing then trash, even hours long videos with no clear goal or set topic. I love your sense of humor and the way you explain things is extremely enjoyable and easy to understand. That aside it’s always great to see a new ToT video, keep up the great work
Always love your vids Tony. Entertaining, informative, clean hands....sometimes and always interesting. As a timber worker I don't watch em all 😶🌫️ but this one caught me. Had a similar problem which is weird considering I'm working with timber. Took me forever to find out....was more going on in my case but just know you aren't alone my friend. I've dragged my ugly face across the floor before. If only I had a smarter wife!
As a long time runout advocate, thank you for bringing runout into the forefront of the public, even for people who have no idea.
I found your channel a couple weeks ago and have been binge watching ever since. I gotta say, your videos are beautiful. They've really inspired me to -spend lots and lots of money- have a bit more fun with the videos I make. Thanks Old Tony
Aren't they just the best. So cleverly edited and great sense of humour he has
"Let's assume we're the sort of machinists who doesn't get hung up on exact dimensions" - That was the joke that pushed me over the edge on this one, well done sir!
His dad jokes are so next-level, I do wonder how many kids he has out there
Impeccable deadpan delivery, I had to replay it, make sure I heard him right.
@1nvisible1 Professional pedicure? Are you sure it's not his wife's hands on camera? Maybe we've been lied to all these years. 🤣
*ToT, how do you keep your hands so clean?*
Pretty fuckin funny man.
ME student here - just finished our unit on fatigue analysis and couldn't figure out why the runout diagram looked so familiar. Then it clicked. So cool to see something so abstract made concrete!
One thing you didn't address was the collet inside taper, which many times get warped or cracked by someone overtightening the collet nut, or sometimes being wrecked. Ive seen it a zillion times. The collets I normally buy new are at least 25 to 35 bucks apiece. Cheap isn't better, especially when you are paying the bills.
Thank you, Tony. I wait impatiently for each new video. Ithink I have watched most of your back catalog (that's still up on YT) and I have even being workin through AvE's back catalog to get a fix (I mean, AvE's great, but there are definitely differences in style and tone). I could imaging you and AvE switching workshops and both going insane from it.
Thanks for watching
You won a prize 🎁👆👆👆👆
I could watch these vids all day long!!! Thank you for not being 5 microns off of being exceptionally entertaining! 😉
I love these videos, as a designer/drafter, i get alot of insight into machining and processing of steel.
Thanks for watching
You won a prize 🎁👆👆👆
Your writing always gives me the chuckles but it's the editing that really makes me pause the video to laugh. No one has better placed, harder cuts than this particular old Tony
Thanks ScottCalv [...]
Seamless editing every damn time. It's almost like they're done in 1 take.
We use Rego-Fix collets at work. They are pricey but you don't really have to worry about runout. We also use torque wrenches wherever possible. I'm running a Swiss lathe so it's not always possible to use a torque wrench.
Hilarious, and amazingly produced and executed content, what more could you ask for?
I use the solid 1/8 ones with set screws. They cost 80$ each, but you can micro tweak out all the runout. 75 parts vs 1000 parts in a production setting. I also used paint markers or dots of antiseize on the taper in a pinch. I feel your pain.
Hi Tony , thanks again for your video. Question, how do you think they manage to machine the collect skew?
Really useful video, thanks! I invested in a couple of Nikkon collets after advice from a friend and they're superb but I could easily have seen myself making the mistake of buying cheap and getting frustrated if nobody had told me.
I am not a machinist. Don't even own a drill press, but I've enjoyed all your videos, Tony. Keep up the great work.
Do you own a file?
I bought a couple 1/4 collets last year (2x for $5 i think) and i just double checked em (visually). They are impressively clean. A pretty high grit perfectly straight sanding pattern (maybe 1500+ grit) around them and in 1 direction over both holes. 0 burrs. Really surprisingly cleanly made. Way better looking than your bits. I guess it varries a lot between batches / budget brands. I just wanted to add that some may be great based on the appearance of mine.
Thanks for watching
You won a prize 🎁👆👆👆
Your videos are fun and very informative. Never checked the run out on a mill in a collet. Your the man; keep it up. Thank you for your time.
During the dramatic buildup to the runout reveal question coming from Mrs. Old Tony, I was screaming, "Torque! You over tightened them! The endmills are under too much stress and snapped!" Obviously...I was wrong, but what do you think over-torqueing on a tool might do? Should one always just torque down to the German torque spec of "good-n-tight"? ☺
You could relegate the worse tool holders for tools that you only use for softer materials, I suppose. For example only for woodworking stuff, if you have enough need for that.
By the way, I wanted to say, as some others have commented this as well:
I'm currently in my last semester for a metal tech trade education and have been watching you since before I entered this program. Despite you being a colonial and sometimes using the wrong measurements (without translating them as you have done in this video - thanks!), you've been a source of inspiration, especially at times where the education was more boring than useful.
God willing, in five years I'll be on my way to my Master title, and in ten, I'll have my own little workshop to mess around with, and my own nagging wife and children that break things.
I have had decent success with Amazon ER collets!
While I haven't had a run out issue, even on small endmills, I have worn a few out running them hard in my VMC.
Great video! I'm looking forward to the next one!
collet quality aside, the proper torque values are really important. It is especially easy to over-torque small collets which can cause them to skew or warp slightly
@Beam Trading I would expect your ER wrench to be a standard imperial or metric size. I have a "hobby grade" CNC with a huanyang spindle and ER20 collets. The wrenches I use are 23mm and 30mm. You should be able to find a suitable crow's foot.
Can you get a crows foot ER wrench to fit a torque wrench?
@John Zitterkopf Torque for a given collet will always be the same regardless of manufacturer simply because of the geometry of the collet. What changes torque values more than anything is using different types of collet nuts.
Ah... but does the china crap come with a torque spec? Or are those specs baked into the "ER" good book?
very true!
I wondered why I would occasionally break bits doing the same CNC operation that had worked before. After watching this video, I checked one of my collets and sure enough, out by over 3 thou. I'm sure the rest are just as bad. Not sure if I feel better now that I know or not. LOL thanks Tony.
Oh my goodness what a timely video!! I've been cutting some parts recently and am repeatedly breaking the small endmills. Nothing I tried was making it work. Came across this video and decided it was worth a try. Replaced my 1/8" collet today and the machine has been running flawlessly for a couple hours now. THANK YOU!
Holy shit, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a KZclipr with a better sense of humor than this man. Never did I think I’d find THE internet funny man in a machining video of all places
Also, in a production environment, your tool changer cannot have chip intrusion of any kind. This is a huge plus for multi spindle machines. Swiss lathes are great for this, or the fuancy mills designed to stay clean. Most likely the only solution might be to suck it up and pause the machine at those tool changes to clean the taper. May quotes have been sent to low leaving grown men in a puddle of tears because of this. :(
Please make more videos, you and Ave are very much needed comic relief
Another rock solid video TOT! As a non-machinist who aspires to do more with this hobby I totally understand the conflict. The "how much of this hobby am I doing to justify the higher price tool" dilemma is real. Lots to think about and thanks a ton for sharing. BTW @14:03 I was sure you where going to cut to kids hands for the "kid in me" part like the old Frosted Mini-Wheats commercials.
@Richard Allsebrook That's also been my approach with learning to play the bass. At my level I can't tell the difference between a $200 and $2000 guitar while fumbling through major scales and Seven Nation Army
Your progress through the hobby dictates it. As you get better, you need better tools. And with better tools, you can move on to bigger and better builds...
I'm a scale modeller for example. You start with cheap paints and brushes, get to the point where you can't improve your models because your brushes and paints are now the limiting factor - so you upgrade...
Tony is like the old head in the shop that has already done all the expensive mistakes in the shop and tries to impart some knowledge in us to stop our growing bitterness towards the world
I've always suggested that buying tools is a balance; you have to put some kind of monetary value on your time, and work out if the time it takes to work around is going to be more cost-effective than buying the right tool and doing it in less time (looking at you circlip pliers), and that you've also got the tool for next time.
it pretty much applies to matching the flaws in tool holders, if the time it takes to match it up is of less value than the difference in the cost of better quality tools, then fine, keep doing it. if you're a hobbyist and you're doing it for 'fun' your time probably has a low monetary value, and matching tooling might even be part of the fun.
Surprised to see someone else fixes errors with errors. I call it offsetting the error. It can work very well sometimes. Liked your video.
I know you won't see this (or at least, you better not, as KZclip comments are on the 7th level of hell), but Tony, you make me legit cry with laughter sometimes. You are something so important in this modern era we find ourselves. Thanks so very much for being you, and don't stop doing it.
6:44 I was not expecting that.
And I'm an internet expert on machining, having watched most of yours and everyone else's extremely informative KZclip videos.
Haven't touched so much as a drill press since high school... but I like to believe the internet taught me well.
this is 18 minutes of pure pleasure! the story and the information is dipped in a jar of comedy served to us! i really wanna thank you Tony!
Glad to hear it Fille... since I cried the whole time. ;)
At my former place of work, we used a five thou diameter end mill on one of our processes in stainless. Five thou! .005! You could break the thing by looking at it funny.
Sometimes I'd spend upwards of 20 minutes just dialing in the runout to a tenth or less. During that, I'd swap out collects, knock the collet around with a mallet, swap, measure, swap, measure. You learn pretty quickly that some collets are just wildly better than others. And some tools holders are just not up to the task. Cheers, thanks for the video.
Thank you for sharing! I never realised just how significant the runout could be
it's got to be 45 years since I used a milling machine, but this was strangely need to know. At least you mentioned a Dremel collet ;) Enjoyable content.
Glad to see a new video, love your stuff. I think I've seen every one you have on here. Keep em coming and we'll keep on watching.
Very enlightening. Thanks brother. I use ER32 collets to hold the chamber reamers for barrels. Sure enough, Chinesium collet has runout. Stoned the burs like you mentioned then used a smaller collet in the set to drill it concentric on my lathe centers. Collet on my tailstock. Laser engraved an idex mark. Presto.... perfect inline solid reamer holder!
Just how many out of spec chambers did you cut with a crooked reamer? Seems like you should have been using quality tools from the beginning when you're doing work for customers.
Hi Tony
Just noticed 1 more thing that will mess your runout up,at 16:51 when you unscrew your colletnut you can see that the collet is twisted,if you check the slits in the collet they are not all the same size and they should be,the collet is not slipping in the nut and holder at the same rate when you tighten it. Just to add more complexity to the sphincterholding of tools ;).
I don't machine, but I love watching machining videos, which is how I stumbled upon your channel.
I do however have a cnc router for wood and soft metals, and have struggled at times with breaking smaller bits with no explanation.
I too bought the el-cheapo ER20 collets because I didn't think it mattered, but now thanks to this video I can't wait to get home and check the run out on them.
If I find that the run out is minimal and couldn't be the problem, then I guess I have to accept the fact that the reason for the failures could only mean that I am idiot.
Either way, you have shown me the light.
Awesome content, good sir. I am subscribed.
Thanks for watching
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Damn, these videos just get better and better.
Thank you Tony!
Believe the last collet is a TG series collet. Came in different sizes also like the ER. I find that a single taper ETS collet(ER collet w a flat top) is far superior to any of the ER collet for concentric and holding
Hi Tony! I would have liked to see you measure runout in the collet holders, and swap bad collet for good in the good and bad holders to try and detect if the problem was the holder or the collet, maybe after de-burring the chinesium collet.
Never put your vids in the "trash" - they are all gold. I'm either learning something or having a good laugh. Thank you sir!
Tried to make my wife watch this gem with me to explain why I'm sinking a ton of holding into my tool fund. She's still giggling about the sphincter joke, so we're not done yet.
Also, I got a laugh out of breaking out the big book. Reminding me of college (mine required buying all textbooks new) and having to pay for Eshbach which we referred to as Esh”brick”. It was going to be a bad study night if you had to open it.
Tony, as always, a wonderful video. humor is present, it's great! everything you said is absolutely true. I support all that has been said. I, your long-time subscriber, have one small request - add metric values to all imperial values. this makes it incredibly easier to perceive your slo
Imagine my excitement when, out of the KZclip chatter, I saw another ER collet runout vid... But wait, it's from This Old Tony. I missed a breakfast date but I'm sure I can find someone who can understand my excitement over a new TOT post. Thank you for the work you put into making videos and for making my day a fair bit better.
true words... "used" tools or reselled ones at flea markets after closure of factories are sometimes better than new ones... I bought myself all the drill bits for the lathe in any dimension at a ridiculous price even if they were new and branded !!! I have even reselled some of those bits ahahah
실제 측정 데이터가 있어서 너무 좋은 자료 같아 :) 제품 카탈로그는 역시 잘 살펴야해
황삭 중삭 정밀 가공,초반 가공 용 콜릿은 구별하고 가공물의 살을 남겨 놓는 것을 계획 할 수 있다!
Thanks for watching
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this entire video has been a learning experience to me
i knew literally nothing about milling, collets, or even run outs.
your videos are really well done and easy to follow along with, one of the best 19 minutes of youtube i've watched
keep up the stellar work my friend
Wow. Well then, you're in for a treat.
He slices, he dices, and his one-inch punch cuts steel like butter.
Just avoid the control panel labeled "Time Machine".
Wow, just checked my import ER32 collet set, and sure enough, my imperial collets are not that imperial. Also, they measured .0006" T.I.R., which is probably ok for what I do. However, I bought a ER32 collet from Frank M, that is actually imperial sized, and it measures .0003" T.I.R. as advertised. I may get these at least for my smaller diameter cutters. Thanks for posting that video clueing me in to that potential issue!
I bought a set of cheap collets and spent some time carefully cleaning the dwarf out of them. They wound up being excellent tools.
I once thought I would take up duck hunting. Until I figured with armor, ammo, camouflage,boat and fines for being colorblind and losing all my stuff to the game warden. the bottom line is the first duck would be tens of thousands of dollars. I have been buying tool since I was 10. It really irritates me to find out I was trying to save money to buy an illusion of a tool or a broom or whatever I purchased. But I sometimes still buy cheap tools because I can’t justify spending ten times the money for something I need for a week. The problem is that it doesn’t last the week. Somewhere along the way we outsourced quality, integrity and the American way. Duck hunting and machining are much the same for me. It is often cheaper for some else to cook me a duck. Thanks for your content, humor and dedication to machinists everywhere.
Great, now I'm going to have to check the runout on ALL of my ER32 collets. I tend to only break end mills when I either try to hog out too much material, or set my feeds and speeds wrong. When I [eventually] get a CNC mill, I'm going to be damned sure to get a name brand/quality set from the start. The old "buy once, cry once" model.
That being said, I LOVE using the ER32 to R8 holder I have mounted in my manual mill. I bought a set of small increment collets so that I could use off sized drill bits in the setup (for drilling/reaming smaller holes).
Would it be possible to remachine the bore of the collet? A little larger than spec but not so large that it won't cinch down on the tool. Maybe with a little media blasting with like a silica powder to get in the small nooks and and crannies to deburr the part?
My hobby is woodworking, but some of the same rules apply. My Dad taught me to buy quality tools. I don’t have enough money to buy the cheap stuff. “Buy once, cry once”, is so accurate. Thanks for a great video!
I still believe in "buy cheap, if it breaks, buy expensive" because there are actually a handful of tools that I literally used just once, then there are others that were cheap but are surprisingly good. I saved money by buying cheap stuff for those. Only some things where I know I'm gonna use it a ton, I bought the good things right away, like with my table saw.
Some tools you can cheap out on. Others are definitely worth forking out for a higher quality, even if you don't use them very often.
@Will Swift Potentially, but that entire time you're also working with tools that don't perform as well. I also generally prefer to spend money with the people who try to do a good job with what they manufacture rather than hoping to sell you 10 of the same flawed thing when the others break.
Not entirely true though. You can buy maybe 10 of a cheap tool before getting to the price of the good one. That might be a lifetime.
I hate it when I'm working on something and my drill dies, then I gotta hold the trigger in and spin around the bench. It's worse when it happens while I m hanging drywall...
Your not alone as a automotive tech. New parts suck! New isn’t always good. Which is just mind blowing. Yes a lot of the times we do oem. But not everyone can afford oem. And unfortunately they both suck about the same. Now granted I always say money buys. A lot of products that are expensive don’t get purchased so often so they have to have high prices. Kinda what I realized lately. Thanks for the great video tony!
What an amazing video, great job! There will be a "Watching KZclip with Mom" learning adventure for myself and my 17 year old son happening in our house this evening 🤣
Hey TOT i know I'm a little late to the show here but I'm curious if you could machine the collet and and collet chuck to be Concentric with each other? ... though I can't think of a way to fixture the collet. Anyway always good to see you explain something new even if it sends you in to madness from time to time
4:09 Shots fired!
I wish I could find a 1/2" collet for my very discontinued Freud router, but in my searches, it appears my only hope is if someone is selling parts from theirs. It must have been a very proprietary collet. I bought the unit used and it only came with the 1/4", which is kind of hilarious for a 3.25hp unit.
Almost like having a bad chuck, same but different. You know the one chuck that someone chucked something at the very end of the jaws and cheater pipe handled it close; forever springing the chuck body. Such a chuck that will never properly hold round stock again. Those collets were possibly ground such to exhibit the same issue described here with the chuck. Grabbing the back but still loose at the nose. Thanks for the video, good subject. Cheers!
Hi Tony, another great video. Yes I have a set of chinese ER32 collets and yes they have run out, I found loads of swarf left in the slots when I inspected them, stops them closing up equally. I cleaned them up somewhat and this helped. Another trick I found which helped was to rework the collet by putting it in the collet chuck on the lathe without a piece of work and close them right up and dress them with some tool steel rod and abrasive paste. That helped and I now have a set of fairly acurate ER32 collets. I tried the same trick with ER11 though and they are just junk, even after remachining the collet. I must keep my eyes open for some 2nd hand decent ones. Thanks you for all you video's Tony, I look forward to each of your productions.
Thanks for posting. Even for a rant-video you manage to sneak information, jokes and high production value in.
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Brilliant combination af language, video and knowing.. You are an outstanding teacher.
This video was so useful, I've been milling with my Kitchen Aid for over a year now and the results have been mixed