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Duramax vs Cummins: The Ram 2500 And Chevy Silverado 2500 Take On The World's Toughest Towing Test!
Does the Ram Cummins Diesel Crush a Ford F-150 Lightning On The World's Toughest Towing Test?
- Жарияланды 2022 ж. 6 Шіл.
- Автокөліктер мен көлік құралдары
Пікірлер • 1 810
I would be interested in seeing the same F-150 retested in 2 years to see how the batteries degrade over time.
Not really. Testing the ram too 5,000 miles into no oil change and also 80,000 miles into the gearbox, then you can have a fair test, good luck.
@Ron Tr the cold does effect them greatly. Send another video not towing and at 35 degree the truck lost 36% range according to owner. Losing that much with a load is great since you have none anyways
@Beentheredonethat Originals I think the EPA of original Nissan Leaf was around 80 miles, so that give it about 50-60 miles of range, but I have heard as bad as 30 miles. It's usage today is around town for those people I see have it still. My cars have a range of 250 miles but I mostly do home charging, charging stations is more for long distance travel and long distance travel with an old Nissan Leaf would be a science experiment of patience or a very good excuse to not reach you destination. "Sorry mother-in-law, the range just don't hold up, we have to turn around. Maybe next week, year" ;) A lot of wrong things were done with the first Nissan Leaf battery, so that it still working 12 years later is a bit of proof to me that future batteries wont be a problem. Though a bit early to say, but the new standard of degradation on a lot of old cars seems to be a lot better then the early Nissan Leaf, so only losses of 10-20% and some as low as 5%.
@Jordan Kennedy yes indeed the problem of recycling is a problem. Even having adequate materials to make new batteries is going to be a problem.
I believe we have the ability to figure these issues out in time, reusing some components and recycling others and of course inventing new technology that will improve capacity and utilize materials that are less damaging both to mine and refine.
One thing is certain, we cannot just stop fossil fuels and start using green energy in a haphazard manner like so many are trying to do now, look at Europe and the problems it faces. It has to be phased out with care and we need energy in place BEFORE we just turn oil production off.
@Beentheredonethat Originals well I’m glad sombody agrees I’m just curious as to where these will be recycled because I know normal batteries is a pain and they aren’t near as toxic let alone explosive. It’s a tricky material to recycle infact it seems to be proving impossible at an efficient rate. 😂 I drive a duramax lb7 prior to emissions. Extremely clean running Diesel engine with great mileage for its weight. I’ve been researching and I honestly if we’re going to transfer to renewable I’ve honestly done some research on hydrogen and it seems to be much easier to renew harvest and contain and produce than electricity. Even air power for that matter. Still not 100 percent on board there either but that seems like the better option if they’re going to try to limit diesel everywhere anyways.
No matter what we all think or drive……tip of the hat to the TFL crew for the info & video so we can use the info to make an educated decision on a purchase. No dealer would allow a test drive like this before a purchase…..and for that m grateful!
Yes , good to know that unless your cruising or towing around the city , don’t waste your money on electric. Especially if you live in a mountainous area that gets very cold in the winter .
@Blake Thomas Good luck even ordering one at MSRP. I think you’ll see a lot of them on the market used pretty quickly once the owners realize the range limitations towing and right now the charging infrastructure is not that great many of the available chargers don’t even work. Then you have the long charge times especially when you can’t DC fast charge. Those really fast DC chargers cost $150,000 each. Also the original owner gets the $7500 federal tax.I’m sure many owners who pre-ordered will sell at a profit and then have that $7500 on top of it so there’s a good reason to sell it if you’re not really happy with it.
Totally back this comment! Yes sir yes sir!!
For sure. Great group of guys making great videos.
This EV truck is like someone who can sprint 1 mile as fast as possible and then gas out vs a marathon runner that can run for miles.
@Car Geeks Anonymousall you gotta do is pour your Jerry can of diesel into the tank every morning too. Both will cost you money to do so, the only difference is if yours electricity bill or a gas pump who gets that cash lol
@TheManhu01 u can only do fast 1 hour charge once or twice in a row .. then you have to do an 8 hour normal charge or ur batteries will go kaput
@Frank M there is some technology in the future .. some technology which may or maynot arrive .. still waiting for teh some technoogy
oh shit you done infuriated the tesla fanbois with facts .. run and hide trolls incoming ..
This is hands down my favorite truck channel. Im not interested in EVs at all, but you guys really made the comparison interesting and most importantly, informative.
@law man no way close to the power of the 6.7 ford MADE BY FORD not someone else if ram dodge Chrysler jeep could build a transmission that would last 50 thousand miles if not less then yea might have something to talk about there junk or ram Chrysler dodge jeep having a 4 %reliability rating then yea might have something to talk about if you Wana talk about best selling truck for over 40 years hit me up
@Dave Lyon A wrench and 20,000 dollars
@Cletus McRoofus Yes, they are expensive, but batteries are usually not like a transmission or engine. They don't die all at once. Even after 15 years they will likely have 70% of their range left. This gives them a high trade in value which helps offset the cost. Or, if less range works for the owner, they don't have to be replaced yet.
@Dave Lyon expensive is the key word
@Wes Johnson Yea, I can see where replacing a battery after 15 years or so would be very difficult if you don't know how a wrench works.
Since many of us have the range tests, I consider the electric truck is basically the opposite of a diesel. One of the main advantages of the diesel is range at max load, and they can do that at elevation. As is, the EV trucks are a passenger vehicle or tow vehicle for very short trips. Again, opposite of a diesel that are not very efficient for short trips, and have maximum range.
@Siff of Neden I agree negativity is counter productive. But people aren't "scared" of change. This is an obvious buzzword meant to cheapen the conversation just as bad as negativity.
And I also love the technology but it just isn't there yet for trucks. I have solar panels and an off grid 3K system I use for experiments with LiFeP04 48V system so I know quite a bit about the technology, and it WILL challenge my 1 ton diesel one day, but that's a long way off, and at a price tag of 80 to 140K it won't be affordable for most folks.
I remember watching the Pikes Peak race with an all electric drive train years ago. They are impressive motors.
@Evelyn Walker yes I watched a Rivian vs F150 hybrid towing test and you really pay a premium for staying connected to high speed charging stations. In fact had the price of diesel been 4 bucks rather than 6 like now it actually would have been much cheaper to use diesel. Plus charging takes a very long time (ugh)
@Roger Phelps I'm not referring to regular capacitors. These are double-layered super/ultra capacitors. They are used in Chinese buses that are now also being used in Norway and beginning further used in other European cities . They charge at every stop with overhead chargers as passengers embark and disembark. And no, their energy density is nowhere near a battery's, but are in a whole different league than the regular capacitors that you might be thinking of. These buses can go for quite a few miles with just these super/ultra capacitors. Transistors and other advances are used to control their release of energy and several banks are further used to increase their range. So yes, they will be used to compliment batteries in pickup trucks and semis, and even some sports EVs. They are used is some formula 1 cars now.
@Paul Capacitors can take only a few seconds worth of energy. They are OK for high performance short bursts of rapid acceleration or deceleration but are absolutely unnecessary in most applications.
@Jeff You were probably getting 600 miles per tank fill out of your diesel SUV. Was it a GLK?
That was an amazing downhill run with the Lightning. Maybe, if you had measured the temp of the trailer wheel hubs, you might have gotten an indication of how much downhill brake [if any] was being applied by the trailer. I'm sold on the electric drive train for towing but I think it will be a long time before I'm sold on the battery technology to power it. Range and charge time are still way too much of a negative for me to move to the Lightning
I don't think it will be bev for long haul... I think it will be a hydrogen fuel cell generator and small battery as the solution..
I agree that’s the real world test not how much it can tow.
Thats the problem alot of people are having. Electric drivetrains have been around since pretty much electricity was invented.... but the same issues that killed the battery off back the, are going to kill it off again. Battery electric cars are a stop gap at best.
@Cody Showalter About 5000 miles of it.
An electrical engineer could fill that bed with range
I retired 7 years ago as a transit bus driver. I drove for 25 years. The first buses I drove were 2 stroke Cat powered, next 4 stroke Detroit's then Hybrids with Cummins pick up truck engines. When I retired the district was making a gradual change from Diesel/electric Gillig buses to all electric buses. My experience was that the Gillig's ran all day (16+ hrs. with two or more driver changes) on one tank of fuel. the electrics had to recharge every time they pulled into the downtown bus station. It did not matter if you were running late or not you had to recharge. That could take up to 15 minutes.
I would take the diesel/electrics over the all electrics all day any day!
With the hybrid you had the best of both worlds, big torque numbers from those 900 vac motors and the range of a diesel.
One other thing: To PG&E, you can take your push for high engine ware, low powered, lousy fuel mileage CNG buses and stick it were I can't mention.
Mark Bauer I’m starting to see more and more often now, the lightning is failing big time, big time on any towing test
@D.S.Steele distraction in my eyes! Glad to see some people have common sense in this world!
@A&A: You and I are on the same page about using CNG to power vehicles. It's a feel good political ploy not a practical answer.
@D.S.Steele yeah I understand that part of it. But isn’t that why we invested billions and billions on exhaust fillers and DEF
@A&A: I agree but a lot of transit districts and other fleet operations are using CNG powered vehicles all in the name of "cleaner air".
Great tests, thanks for showing this to the public. Something the manufacturers would never show. Well, maybe the diesel guys would! The regenerative ability in the Ford Lightning is surprising. It gained like 8% going downhill, used 16% uphill, so the net is only 8% used to go both ways! Interesting!
No…that doesn’t cancel itself out… EVs are damned to have a lower towing range
I have an F150 Lightning on order its amazing for sure. Won't sell my gas vehicle tho.
@David Demarest they get hot all the time though.
@Kalepsis but did you ever see what happens to a lithium battery that gets hot just once it is called battery do you degradation
And also, there's not a diesel truck in existence that will spontaneously add fuel to the tank when you're going downhill.
Thanks for the thorough overview TFL. I've done a flat tow test with the Payload pkg Lightning towing 3200 kgs (Cdn). The range was cut in half towing at 100 kph or 60 mph. Exceeding the speed limit will use exponentially more power. As comfortable as it was, its cost ($122k Cdn) and its cantankerous charging requirements to feed. its limited range and also its power, had me compare it more to the compromise an old school resto mod pickup with a gas guzzling high compression big block than the ECO boost F150 i currently drive that hauls that 3200kg at less than 15l per 100kms with a towing range over 750kms. or about 3 times the range of the Lightning with almost identical conditions. Love the tech. but its not good enough yet. Period.
Pretty impressed with the engineering behind this truck. Sure the range isn’t the best yet. That’s a limitation of physics, we haven’t figured out how to cram more electrons into a battery that fits in a truck yet. However, everything else was good. It didn’t overheat anything, it was stable, and confident. Great job ford.
They better figure that out soon if the whole "ban ICE" thing pans out, otherwise things won't turn out so well.
And the cost to replace them. Several thousand dollars and the average American doesn’t have that kind of money.
@carholic1336 and less towing capacity due to toal weight
@Glazed DoughNut Edison motors is doing that soon
Power a smaller battery pack with a diesel generator and you have a truckers dream
I bet the Cummins Ram towed the loaded trailer to the start point and back to the garage very nicely while the electric Ford was empty! 😃
Not a Dodge story then. Cummins can take credit. Enjoy wearing the front tires in a front end collision with the Ram.
Excellent work guys. Have run the same route with my 20,000 lb 5th wheel and my RAM HO 3500 Dually. (30k lbs total) Went slower downhill, as the momentum with the load was higher than I was comfortable. Going up, I was able to keep at least a 50 mph speed, except for the tight corners. Excellent test. Love your commentary. Keep it up.
I think a EV with a range extending small ICE would be the ideal combination from a performance and usability standpoint. From what it sounds like that is what Ram Trucks may be working on. I think if you tow anything more than around town that would be the only practical solution until battery capacity/charging technology makes a major leap.
Electric motor with hydrogen fuel cell producing electricity seems the best
@T Cash not really. It's a little different. Look up range extender
That's called a hybrid lol
@John Smith fuel cells are only around 50 percent efficient. That's the whole problem with them. You have to put in twice the energy you are going to use.
FCEV ... fuel cell electric vehicle hybrid. That's going to be the future. Much smaller batteries required and much longer range.
Now do a 300 miles test using the same vehicles with the two travel trailers you used in another video and calculate the amount of time it takes to cover the 300 miles. The results will be eye-opening. Electrics are the future but they're really not ready for towing for travel yet. Hopefully, in the next 5 years, a solid solution will come forward to address that issue.
@Operator 801 yeah, that’s a valid comparison. 🙄
How about a refueling test, where the EV drives home at the end of a work day and plugs in to top-up overnight, while the ICV leaves work, goes to a gas station, waits in line, fuels up, then drives home, wasting about a half-hour?
A half-hour isn't much until you realize it's once or twice a week, every week, for maybe 15 years... that's right around 35 to 45 hours a year, just dealing with fuel.
Not a complete game-changer at all, but it's definitely a benefit, especially if you don't haul trailers from state to state.
I always love that y’all take these scenarios that manufactures put out there and test them in real world applications. I personally will drive gas power till the Good Lord calls me home.
I always knew Electric motors had amazing torque, but the acceleration with nearly 10,000 pounds attached to it is impressive. I can only imagine how unstoppable the truck would be with a diesel generator on the back. you'd have immense power with long range capability it'd basically be a small train at that point.
@HardShell_Tacoma Correct, but it does significantly reduce emissions. The end to end efficiency of EV's is significantly higher than ICE vehicles as generating the energy at a massive power plant is just way more efficient than in a small engine. Not zero emissions but significantly reduced emissions. And hey, maybe you could also get a solar system to charge at home from too.
With the price of a BIG TRAIN
@Aiden Pommee Electric vehicles are far from ZERO EMISSIONS!
@French onion hahahaha
@Jala769 Even people are not good for the environment. Imagine how much methane 7 billion people release every day just from farting. Last night i made enough to run a bbq for a family of 4
Tommy and Andre execute the best tests! Great comparison - gold-standard diesel against newbie electric! I think I can hear some folks' heads explode - the ones that claim an electric can't handle weight... lol
We know they can handle weight, it’s the lack of range when hauling, time of charging and overall cost of these EV’s that doesn’t make sense.
@Docile Hillbilly starting at 63% charge. still low but you would probably have "at least" 160miles.
not weight, but distance
Aerodynamics are more critical to highway range than weight. Several channels have shown that. And, physics!
It can handle weight for about 80 miles…which is where the problems start.
I just realized... I watched a truck maintain 60mph over 8 miles, waiting for the results of the elapsed time 😁 Was it going to be anything other than 8 minutes?? What did I expect?
It's magic! :)
I’d also like to see timing tests incorporated in the the downhill portion, since the faster it reaches the bottom the worse it performed. This is also reflected in the braking application, but would be interesting to see if some trucks with the same number of applications still spent more time at faster (less safe) speeds then other trucks, shown by reaching the bottom in less time.
The timing portion is becoming less relavent with nearly all trucks maintaining 60; I’d like to see a new challenge incorporated, like slowing to 30 at the beginning of the steepest part, then seeing how long to get back to 60 on that steep incline higher up in elevation. Might start to show more differences between vehicles then just hitting 60 in the flatter beginning then maintaining it the rest of the way.
@Sudeepta Ghosh That wasn't what I meant. I'm saying I had a moment of stupidity, because I watched a truck drive 60 for 8 miles and was wondering "so, how long did it take THIS time?" --- as if it could be possibly be anything other than 8 minutes 😁 Just having a chuckle at myself
Not all trucks could do it at wide open throttle and at that higher up the mountain
The electric truck isn't going to be a contender for real-world long haul towing until batteries reach 500kW capacity with 30 minute charge times.
@Thomas Madigan why 5 minutes?
try 5 minute charge time
Very interesting in performance. But in amount of energy it displaced is concerning. This is very small sample size in controlled situation. Each has there strengths but for power the lightning is impressive. As range can’t beat the combustion engine in ease of use. The lighting is a complex it programming complicated. That’s we’re there no comparison. Each truck has a best scenario purpose really depends how you use it. But if going on vacation cross country don’t think lighting would be time efficient
Want see real word test let’s say 1000 miles test
@Ryan Crawford there are teslas with over 600k miles and over 85% range. That isn't that bad with current battery tech.
The thing about Electric Trucks out working and towing is this. Lots of people get new phones and when we get those new phones the charge seems like it never runs out of power but as the more we use the phone the more we have to recharge our once brand new right out of the factory phones. So if it’s 101 miles on 65% charge what’s it going to be when the electric truck is 10 years old because that’s seems like the average vehicle age for vehicle owner in America
According to an MPGe converter the Ford's overall consumption of 1.4 mi/kWh is equivalent to roughly 47 MPG while the Ram's 10.9 MPG is equivalent to 0.32 mi/kWh.
@Ronald Bussard 75%? we are not in the 80's anymore...
@Ronald Bussard I live in Seattle electricity is 11 cents per Kwh so that would be $3.70 for electricity
And gas is $4.89-$5.79 and diesel is over $6 dollars a gallon.
Helluva cost savings and then take into account all the maintenance you are not doing on the electric
@Mike Oleary lol. b.s.
I think the economics and convenience of electric cars and trucks will get better in next 2-3 years. Tesla is adding hundreds of super chargers per month as well as other networks. And the price of fossil fuels long term will only go up while battery costs go down and charging speeds increase.
@Mr T it's a full standalone setup from fueltech. I have a friend who works there he mapped it himself. It hold 6 tunes I have 2 so far. 1 fuel eff 2 pull baby pull. working on some safe high hp tunes to fill the rest and Still has full dpf and factory turbo
Would be interesting to see if you can get actual numbers over OBD2 to go with those gauges. Gauges are often are Go/No-Go where the gauge stays in the middle until there's an issue, i.e. Ford oil pressure(even has an "analog gauge" but it just sits in the middle of there's the minimum needed pressure)
I love driving our Bolt EV. Watching this video and all the setup fiddling they went through to tow with the F150 EV made me appreciate the simplicity using my 2000 F350 7.3 DRW 6-speed to tow my camper. I'm slow and diesel is expensive but so simple... Although, that Cummins was awesome and the engine brake looks liek a great idea.
Pretty sure the only reason to input all the trailer data is for more accurate range estimates. Once you have that info saved, you don't have to go through the input process for that trailer again.
I had an Uber driver take me to the airport in a Bolt EV, he had 376K miles on it, and all he’s done is tires and struts. He’s one of the last Uber drivers in my area who will do long trips. Hold onto it bud!
Range needs to be added to this test as Electric keeps moving in to the market. Just to show how bad the ranges are while towing. That was 16 miles up and down and used a ton of energy
I would be interested in a cost per mile based on diesel and gas vs electric and what it is like filling up with power from your home vs a charger. The lightning has a pretty small total range in comparison to the other trucks but should cost a lot less to fill
Ford's first attempt at an electric truck did just as well as the gold standard on the world's toughest towing test while using less energy. Then people still find things to complain about even though this is not a range test and that was already done. As a first attempt, things will only improve. Anyway, I appreciate the many informative videos.
Hydrogen fuel cell is better at storing energy than batteries
@fastfed f kind of like making bigger engines with larger gas tanks
@MaxInThePoole It got ~90 miles in the towing range test. That's using a full charge which degrades the battery and isn't recommended. Ford recommend 20-80%. Follow that and you get around 50 miles. An hour is probably optimistic. Put that in your pipe and smoke it lol
@MaxInThePoole It got ~90 miles in the towing range test. That's using a full charge which degrades the battery and isn't recommended. Ford recommend 20-80%. Follow that and you get around 50 miles. An hour is probably optimistic. Put that in your pipe and smoke it lol
@arnaldo35 tf you mean having to stop every hour? If this man is driving 200 to 300 mph I want some of what he's smoking
Absolutely love your content!!! Thank you so much for always posting a real life and unbiased performance test!!!
I think a range test would be most interesting including the ike. Do something like a 75% loaded trailer, and factor charging stations in to the test. Do it over a real distance like someone might be towing a camper 400-500 miles.
My understanding is they don't currently have a camper to do a long distance like that. And Campers are usually tall so they would have to get a tall enclosed trailer to mimic a camper. The wind resistance is what I am guessing is really hampering the range. A flatbed with the same weight but a lower profile might be able to be towed a lot further. Which would also be an interesting test.
Great and very informative video! But, the real-life scene would be towing with a fully loaded payload and max towing capacity. I wonder how these diesel, gasoline, and electric trucks would do in the IKE gauntlet?
I was floored with the acceleration of the Ford lighting with 10K lbs of capacity and a wheel slip, oh man! This truck should be in the towing competition! Kudos to Ford for making it this far!
You guys honestly put together the best automotive videos & comparisons available.
Stay blessed guys
TFL, great test run. Really enjoy your reviews. Suggestion for testing the Lighting applying trailer brakes, make up a breakout cable connector between the truck and trailer where you could measure voltage and current going to trailer brakes without inferring with the trailer brake functions or having to cut into truck or trailer wire harnesses. I would like to see how much the trailer brakes were applied on the downhill portion of the test.
Would have liked to see how much of a process it would've been just getting the Lighting to the Ike with the trailer.
@Xyler here’s why… do you want to go xxxx miles to xxxx (within range)? Sure!!!! Do you want to go xxxx miles to xxxx (outside of range)? No, sorry, I spent almost $100k on a truck and can’t make it there…
@Marko343 though for most peoples use cases they could get a hybrid Maverick for less than half the price and have the range and flexibility. Though obviously not the towing capacity.
@Emd=mc^2 right on.
@Emd=mc^2 exactly. I tow almost every weekend from May to October. The Lighting will not do the job, unless I'm 10 min down the road, which happens. It will not work as a daily commuter either. It will not fill the void of long distance travel, as it has the same range that my wife's EcoSport has, while my f350 6.7 is good for 1100+ km.
Stopping 3x on a 9 hr trip for a minimum of 30 to 45 min just doesn't make sense.
I love how everyone races to the fact that most people don't tow 10,000 pounds 300+ miles on a regular basis... Well, most people don't have $81,000 to spend on an electric truck either.
I'm sorry, but for the money that these electric trucks go for, people will expect a lot, even if they have no practical use for it all.
I tell ya'll what, these electric truck comparisons you are making are not just informative but meaningful. You're making real-world comparing and contrasting videos about one of the most significant shifts in automotive history. Keep it up, ya'll.
Nice comparison. Maybe the Ford 150 will have a chance with gas generators to help them stay charged!
Two important questions what’s the range of distance before recharging and how much do batteries cost for replacement?
Love how thurough you guys are. Makes me glad I choose the 8cyl instead of the EV.
Not bad. I want to see this test in The winter at -30C. Dumping all that tq towing in winter conditions will be interesting. And my guess is battery life will be a lot worse with heaters going etc. All in all I was mildly impressed lol
Yeah the batteries don't last as long in super cold weather either. LiFePO4 batteries won't even charge if they are below 32 Fahrenheit, so you'd have to use heating circuits. To be fair I have an oil reservoir heater, block heater, and dual battery heaters on my 1 ton diesel because I work in Wyoming and North Dakota at times. Or I used to anyway. Still have some diesel 911 floating around here some place.
The insight regarding regen and trailer braking is brilliant. Never occurred to me. Great test guys, thanks!
The F150 seems to be the most "truck like" of all the electric trucks. Nice to know that it is capable enough so that some idiot won't kill everybody on the road when they try to tow something. That said, limited range and long recharge times are the Achilles Heel of electric vehicles when hauling / towing heavy loads. I'm also looking at all the technology crammed into these vehicles and thinking "What's it going to cost to get this thing worked on and is there enough talent out there to support maintenance?"
@Car Geeks Anonymous I have an f150 for a driver. I like the tech and the ability to backfeed a house and power a small jobsite with the lightning but I would need more range and quicker charge time.
@jwristen24 then why would you be interested in a half ton pick up?
There's barely any talent to support maintenance on non-ev vehicles lol
@Lon Smith Wesson I have my 1 ton for work mostly. Which I'm towing 3 times a week an excavator, well over 12000 lbs. Traveling 300-400 miles sometimes more. Also have an 11,000 lbs RV that I use very frequently. So, I need my 1 ton. And electric novelty truck won't work for. I like the idea but need at least 500 mile range and 20 minute charge time. Also, I have an 80 gallon auxiliary tank on my 3500 so I can carry 110 gallons total to fill up the truck and excavator. There's no way I'm getting away from diesel even if I wanted to.
@jwristen24 At nearly 10,000 lbs, slightly more than my 16ft aluminum boat weighing 900lbs or my 3,000lbs pontoon that travels 15 miles lake to storage, you said it only goes camping 15 miles away. It may not pull your 10,000lb camper that you have a 1ton diesel to pull 200 miles once a year and drive daily 50 miles to and from work. Maybe rent a moter home and drive daily in a computer vehicle, better option?
The really useful conclusion here I think is that electric motors are capable of very strong towing. Efficiency will improve over time, and energy sources will likely improve as well from storage capacity of batteries to hydrogen fuel cells, but the electric motor as a towing propulsion system looks super promising. Thanks for the awesome video!
@Tony the motors themselves are efficient but if you knew anything about EV drive systems it's not the motor where most of the loss is. I listed numerous places where efficiency has been and will be improved. You further demonstrated your ignorance when noting Lucid as a Chinese manufacturer, they are based in the US, and that example is far from the only example of an EV with better range than 2013. I agree aero improves range, because it improves miles/kwh, also known as efficiency... Plenty of places to improve efficiency to improve range on EVs.
@Nick Dinser longer range is due to bigger batteries not more efficiency
And is because Electric motor efficiency Is already very high, the margin of further improvment is very slim, just few extra point at best, because there's something called physics and not even electricty can escape from that rule.
Lucid air? Like any chinese EV Company in order to boost brand new range over long term battery healt, the gross capacity Is the same as the usable one, so much quicker battery wear occurs if you regulary reach low battery % before charging.
Last but not least, aerodynamics greatly improve range but has nothing to do with electric components
@Tony sorry Tony it's not obvious to me... Why would efficiency of the motors themselves not improve? AC induction motors are only about 90% efficient. We also have very strong potential to see improvements from energy harvesting in regenerative braking, from tires, from onboard electronics power consumption, and from power control components such as MOSFETS, drivers, inductors, etc. All of which ignores the fact that battery tech is improving exponentially today. There is tons of room in this technology to increase range which, based on this review, is the main shortcoming. Don't take my word for it though, 10 years ago, the EV with the longest range was the top end model S, a sedan with 265 miles of range. Now, sedans like the lucid air exist that have double the range (520 miles).
for some obvious reason electric motors are basicaly already at 99% of their possible efficiency
so no, efficiency would NOT improve over time
Hopefully on your tests you do a drive across the country to see the time difference it would take while towing at max towing weight
Something that everyone has to remember, is that the F150 is a 1/2 ton rated truck. and RAM 2500 is a 3/4 ton rated truck. WOW the F150 squealed the tires and launched really hard. amazing especially with that much load. it will interesting what the range will be. but for short haul's as it stands it looks really impressive.
it appears that Ford has the F-150 pretty well designed. at least until such time as better battery technology can be achieved.
Well it takes me an average of 4 minutes to dump 25 gallons of diesel in my truck what I want to see is the charge time on that big pig of a battery that they have
Impressive results! Towing with the F-150 with that weight/trailer combo did appear to be a bit sketchy at times with no WDH/anti-sway, though. Maybe that was just driver, but it sure seemed to be a bit twitchy or unstable looking at the video coming from the trailer.
How do you guys handle when you have a left lane cruiser, or two semi trucks that block the whole road? It seems like a test that could take all day to accomplish potentially.
The Ram 3500 is available in both the SO and the HO. The SO on the 3500 is identical to the tested 2500 vehicle and the optional HO motor has the Aisin Transmission and the 1075ft/lbs torque. I have owned both in the 3500's and I do prefer the Aisin and the HO when towing, but i am a power junkie :-)
I thought this story was about comparing 2 trucks, not reading a bio about the trucks you have owned.
Allison way to go
Those transmissions are junk tho
seems like an easy solution to check trailer break usage would be to simply setup a camera on the trailer break lights and if you really want to go further, a volt meter connected to the break lights and cameras on both the break lights and volt meters.
The elevation of the “Ike Gauntlet” is a big deal for internal combustion engines-not so much for an electric drivetrain, at least at non-Arctic temperatures.
@McKeithan Smith III The oxygen content (varying by elevation level) does not affect electric like it does ICE, since nothing is converting it, but the temperature of the air/environment directly impacts it through both needing to cool the batteries on hot days and needing to heat the batteries on cold days. Technically, any medium with similar thermal conductivity as atmosphere will have a similar affect, so the battery EV will run equally well and be equally impacted in a chamber with an inert gas as it is at elevation. The major effect of elevation is primarily the change that elevation has on the temperature in the surrounding air and thermal conductivity of it being thinner, not the content of the oxygen.
Wouldn't electric engines NOT be affected by altitude because it does not require air for combustion to run? Forgive my ignorance on the subject matter. I know air temp makes a difference but ICE engines require air to run, electric motors do not only air for heating and cooling of the battery packs for efficiency, correct?
The batteries in the Lightning (and most EV’s) are thermally regulated, so they are heated to optimal temps in cold climates. That heating will cause a (likely minor with large batteries) hit to range, but will not affect power once at temp (the extra/supplemental heat/energy needed to maintain temp in a discharging battery is negligible compared to the energy needed to move he vehicle, even at 10 below (Fahrenheit). So while the range will suffer a bit since the drain is constant, the power will not since that drain rate is tiny.
Also, forced induction turbos, superchargers, etc) do not negate elevation, they simply supplement it; it can pull in extra air to restore authentic air/fuel mixture, but the power to do so comes from somewhere so it still causes a hit (either in HP, fuel efficiency, or both). It cannot make the air denser, it can only draw in more of the thin air, so it still won’t run the same as it would at sea level (this is why they can put out more power in cold winter air, as the turbo can now pull in more even denser air); of course, the actual power output is often limited by the tune to what the rest of the truck can handle, so that denser air usually just amounts to better mpg with the turbos not working as hard.
You can’t get something for nothing, and turbos are no exception, even if the majority of the energy is recaptured waste/heat energy from the exhaust; their is always a small amount needed that isn’t waste energy, and that means slightly more fuel burned at elevation to get it then the same turbo truck running at sea level.
Which also brings up the question; if the turbos restore the intended fuel/oxygen ratio, does this cause the turbo trucks to begin knocking like crazy and pulling timing when using the lower octane fuel intended for naturally aspirated trucks at elevation? I don’t hear a lot of conversation in videos about this, but to me this seems obvious as a major risk people don’t consider at elevation. Living at sea level, it has never affected me, but the few occasions I do go up higher I fuel with the same octane as sea level just to be consistent, so I have never been impacted by this potential phenomenon.
It's not just power, but it's lack of cooling too which definitely affects electric and turbo engines
@Menti Capti Right, but widespread use of turbos in gas light trucks, SUVs, etc. is a fairly recent phenomenon, even if they’re not new in aviation. This is, presumably, why TFL always pimps the altitude of their “Ike Gauntlet” test loop as part of what once made it a “toughest” test for NA vehicles. Forced induction, and now electrification, have rapidly removed altitude as a “challenge” to their test vehicles.
Great video guys, very interesting data on the lightning! Unbelievable to see a 1/2 ton, crew cab truck with trailering max weight ( shy of 10,000 lbs ) only using electric, shows how much science has moved the needle, Imagine having a 15kw solar inverter, and plugging in your electric truck for free ( paying your self vs the gas pump ) this is where this technology has great potential, only question will be with 2500, 3500, 2 ton and up / MAC trucks, on heavy towing / range with battery capacity, Really enjoy your videos on what's what with all the brands, your work is Awesome!
Yep. If the car manufacturers stay focused on innovation and technology then perhaps significant improvements on range will be realized. The internal combustion engine has been around for around 130 years. It's time to move forward with new technologies.
"we'll be doing more range testing on flat highways" For those of us using our trucks pulling an RV or horse trailer in Utah and Colorado our typical trip is not on flat highways, we go up and down the mountains. Our trucks ability to do this safely is the most important capability test. Range is also a big part of a working truck's capability, to ignore that is not realistic. Any vehicle can pull a trailer on flat ground for a short distance. Very few can safely tow heavy loads up and down mountains.
Pavement might be an equal playground. I would love to see these tested in the real world true off road use. Durability and pulling ability. I’m pretty sure the Ram would come out ahead! Let a farmer use the EV for a couple of growing seasons that would be a true test!
"Not a range test"... I wonder why? 🤔 lol
It has been proven they cannot pass this test! 🤷🏻♂️
@Josh Tavenner yeah the law should be neutral to both there’s no reason to subsidize or force financially EVs
@Hot Rod Hunk we don't live in cities.
Because we already know the answer?
That 2500HD Cummins will take you anywhere in the country and do it happily, couldn’t say the same about the lightning
I was a hotshot driver for a bit and I approve the shit outta this comment lol
@Vjotkr I have a Bolt with 108K and literally no maintenance, none, I get an email every month from the car telling me I don't have to do anything to it. I also have a 200 hp homemade EV that I designed and built 8 years ago and I drive every day, and guess what, no maintenance. I pulled the entire drivetrain (I mean every piece disassembled and reinstalled in 4 hours) cause my buddy wants to drag race it, and zero wear, just roasted tires and twisted driveshafts, but maintenance? Nope, not really a thing. Maintain what exactly?
@augsu someone fell for the "EVs don't require maintenance" meme
That Cummins will happily take you to the gas station, to the dealership, to the tuner shop...
Great video again fellas. The real world capabilities of the vehicles really help people make the best choices for there next purchases. 👍🏼✌🏼🇺🇸
I think what I'd really like to see if a smaller capacity battery with a smaller diesel hybrid. Use the motor(s) to assist with acceleration/towing and also use regenerative braking but leave the engine running the entire time since it would be the primary power source. You could move around empty running on the motor(s) only for short distances and recharge with a plug like a dedicated EV.
In my opinion a hybrid is what we should be going for because an EV does still fall short in some examples to an ICE. But eventually technology will advance enough where an EV surpasses in all examples. But we aren't there yet
Once again this shows that this truck makes a good commuter car not a working user truck. Great features on a truck not ready for prime time as a real truck. The show piece that doesn't get used as a truck, similar to most owners of Suburbans, for those that don't do real truck stuff with their trucks this will look awesome at the Country Club.
So when you recharge the Lightning and remove the trailer, does it reset your range to what it would normally be without a trailer? That would be helpful, since in an ICE truck, the range shows up as to what your average was while towing, and then slowly increases.
The range does adjust if you remove the trailer
Couple a small diesel with a electric drive motor similar to a TRAIN and your towing capacity would be epic.
@DOAUDI Funny that you are completely and utterly WRONG in your assumptions. My electricty for my cars comes from my own PV - about 25% and the rest from guaranteed sources of green energy in the country. It has to be guaranteed green otherwise i would not get state incentives. And rare earth materials are 1: Not Rare, they are just named that way, Not earth - they are mainly lantanoides also known as METAL - they are in your smartphone and Laptop as in every fossil car and only in SOME electric cars. Batteries e.g. do not use rare earth metals at all. Never have. I save a bunch of money every year by using only electric energy and no more fossil. A really great bunch of bucks…
I do not HATE fossil fuels. I HATE the wasting of fossil ressources. Burning of petrol, Diesel and breaking Uranium in extremly dangerous and most expensive atomistic reactors and finally destroying those. At the same time poisoning and polluting our environment. You may not be interested what your children and grand children have to eat and live in. I am.
Lightning would work fine for my usage style, only get a trailer every once in a while but don't go too far. Nevertheless it's going to be a while before I buy one because I buy older used trucks and I would certainly want a battery warranty of some sort. They really need to make these batteries replaceable by anyone with electrical knowledge and enough sense not to kill themselves by high voltage.
Appreciate the videos on the Lightning. I'll never get one but they are interesting to watch. its great the way you have standardized the tests for all your vehicles. cant wait till you post the videos on the way to Prudhoe Bay.
I'm very interested in the test without trailer breaks!
You can't ignore range. I don't care if the lightning tows it faster, I'll be long gone while it charges after one mountain
Imagine it being 10 years old after the after truck user in America
@Evelyn Walker imagine having to sit in your truck in -10 degree weather waiting on it to charge for hours because you have to keep your heat running so it's one step forwards 2 steps back
@Evelyn Walker that would show the real truth about where they are on Battery tech, and we can’t have that.
Imagine pulling a trailer in the winter with an EV.
45 miles range from q00% charge.
TFl managed to completely ignore range, like a top notch politician ignoring reality.
@Evelyn Walker your assumption that fossil fuels, which are not derived from fossils in the first place, will dry up is false. Scientists have been saying that for decades. Oil is renewable; it’s part of the normal carbon process.
Aside from electric consumption going uphill which no one’s gotten around yet, I don’t think Ford could’ve written a better TV commercial for their new F150 lightning. That thing was a beast.
If there is ever a way to get more range & FAR faster recharge, EVs are the way to go as far as all vehicles. It's just that right now technology isn't there to do those things.
I agree. Discussing it with friends, EVs will take off when they either has a 1000 mile range on a charge OR the charge time can be reduced to 10 minutes or less.
One thing that hasn’t been discussed is longevity and durability . How long will the EV drive chain last.
Great videos. You cover the questions consumers are asking about EV’s
I'd like to see you guys find a compromise; what would it take to make a Lightning practical. If you slowed down to say 60mph and towed a smaller camper like a popup, could you still get over 150 miles of range?
Yeah I want to see this too but it's less dramatic so it won't get the views. The fact is the Rivian is specifically being marketed as an outdoor lifestyle brand. So loaded with gear, overlanding, etc will be the requirement. With that, charging infrastructure and charging speed are still issues, but its not really an issue with the vehicles anymore, other than on price.
With the EV’s they should do the same test they did with the Rivian. Keep up the good work!
That revelation about the 8 kilowatt hours of energy is interesting, it reminds me of a mine that uses electric dump trucks, I believe they have an excess of energy they have to get rid of because the mine is higher than the quarry
With its limited range as demonstrated in your previous video the Ford is a in town vehicle. Great for a local contractor for their fleet and clearly the biggest, quickest commuter vehicle available. Replace diesel, not even close!
Diesel will still be replaced by range-extended electrics, meaning a smaller internal combustion generator and battery combo.
Yeah good ideal local contractors.. that was my thought to local no long distance work traveling.. as with most EVs
Guys it would be awesome if you could load up the Ford to max payload in the bed and give us feedback on how you like the independent suspension! I assume lots if us would appreciate your assessment on that parameter as well!
@Car Geeks Anonymous thanks!
A semi-trailing arm suspension like in the Ford is more stable under load than it is when unloading the suspension due to bushing compliance and angles. Basically the tires are slightly toed-in which helps with stability but may become toed-out when lifting up the rear. I haven't heard any complaints of dangerous handling characteristics from anyone so far. BMW and Porsche used a similar set-up in the 80s on their GT cars.
The Ford was basically at max payload for this test, due to the trailer tongue weight, hitch and the two passengers.
Like the original, I see the Lightning as a Sport Truck. Has its place. This comparison, whilst interesting, isn’t Apples v Apples. A 911 is a great car. Not sure I’d use it to move house. Horses for courses.
I know some are fascinated by the tech. Some aren’t. Surely the fact that we all like trucks is the point.
@Car Geeks Anonymous I suppose if the numbers was what I based my opinion on you might have a good point. Though, the Ike can prove that capability often goes beyond the numbers.
It’s an $80k truck, covered in plastic, full of tech and has yet to establish its durability. In time, perhaps. For now, combined with the limited use case, it’s a sports truck.
Arguably a good one though. And there’s nothing wrong with a sports truck.
The power and payload might tend to disagree with this. The only thing it lacks is an endless supply of electrons onboard. Other than that, this sets the benchmark for half-tons by a mile.
It is a truck, it looks like a truck, it drives like a truck, it's a truck. It's just its range sucks for a useful sort of towing truck.
@Tyler Same for any sport truck or Ute. Down under our sedan based utes could tow enough and carry a fair bit - didn’t mean people saw them as fleet trucks.
The lightning can tow but it’s more suited to getting your tools to site or towing the boat to the lake, not being beat up hauling equipment and materials all day long.
And that’s ok. Imagine arguing that a city guy who likes mountain biking should buy a Heavy Duty.
It’s odd so many seem to want EVs to be everything to everyone. Nothing is.
Well except Brad Pitt I suppose. 😂
The F150 towed just as well as a heavy duty truck. I'm not sure I'd put this into the sport category when it can handle what the heavy duty truck did. The only issue now is range, but if someone is only towing short distances there's no reason to worry about the capability of the Lightning.
Great test , as mentioned before how the longevity of the batteries are in 3 years , an how it does in freezing temperatures like in Canada at -25 to-30 below 0 test would be nice . Test in great conditions are nice , try test in Canadian conditions will tell the true story if it is worth the money .
Interesting comparison. The weight of that half ton is very heavy so I can see the comparison to a diesel. More of the guy who tows often and needs the diesel for longevity like a land scraper or handy man construction. The problem I feel is still range. That one negative is so huge to overcome in my opinion. Even at 9 mpg in my diesel I can go 324 miles. I am confused why hybrid didn’t go like locomotives.
There really is nothing like driving the Ike Gauntlet in Colorado, crazy steep. I’ve been through it with my Silverado and Colorado Chevy trucks, never towing though.
I wouldn't buy an EV right now but I do appreciate Ford pushing this segment. From an affordable EV work truck, to an onboard generator to bringing LED lights to this segment. I truly think this segment would be way behind if not for Ford.
I love how they directly avoided answering which one was more efficient.
See recent "Car Wizard" episode on why he bought a used Ram V10 for short distance towing verses a newer diesel or an older Cummins equipped truck. He claims the newer ones suffer from reliability issues related to computer sensors and the older Cummins are so much in demand that the prices have skyrocketed. I found it informative as I do with TFL videos. Thank you, guys.
@Michael Crites it's brand spanking new bro,a lot of things go bad with time, not just mileage. It takes literal time (heat cycles, exposure to the elements etc.) To wear stuff out, even if it is high mileage. I'm a RAM guy all the way but I have no confidence in modern diesel emissions systems from any manufacturer. Hit me back in 5 years and I'm sure your story will be different.
@Michael Crites Some people get bad unreliable Toyotas too. It does happen. But you know...
Jerry, it's VERSUS not verses.
My 2020 Ram 3500 would like to tell car wizard he is wrong. She's currently sitting at 221,000+ miles with no major electrical, mechanical, or emission issues. I'm willing to send pics and back this
@Jay Richards not to need a large investment into numbing lubricants... but i guess that was asking to much.
So I tow boats which don't have electronic brakes. Wondering how the lightning would fair going down hill with the brake regen and no trailer brakes to help. Is there any worry with an EV of brake fade? The Cummins does an amazing job with the exhaust brake but wondered, as it seemed you did as well, as to how much the trailer was helping the lightning slow down the hill using trailer brakes.
TFL - I know with my Bolt, if I do not have "one pedal mode" on, the car will coast much more freely downhill, kind of like in a regular gas car with automatic transmission. If I engage the cruise control at a certain speed, when going downhill, the regen will control the car's speed and will not allow the car to coast as freely. It seems that the F-150 Lightning is similar, based on your observations of the speed variation going down the hill.
Use a laser heat gun to see if the trailer brakes heated up after Downhill ev coasting. Don’t need to disconnect, but hot brakes means they were used.
If I ever move to a new home that is 8 miles and a 7% grade away from my favorite campsite, I'd totally get a lightning. This whole video is a bit moot after the towing range video TFL has done showing how useless the lightning is unless you're staying in a 40 mile radius of home.
@Dave Hilling he said he had atleast a 40 min charge for lunch and a 30 min charge at a later time in the trip.
i find 220 miles hard to believe even under the best conditions. I get it that its mostly flat, but that seems suspect given their videos here on range.
@chase314 Exactly, and even 100 miles is extremely conservative. A buddy of mine drove a long range lightning from central AZ to CA with a 7k camping trailer and averaged 220 miles of useable range. Stopped to charge and made lunch in the trailer during the 40 min break, stopped to charge later and had a half hour conversation with a Rivian engineer at the charger. There are certainly people who need more range, I'll be keeping my Cummins for the foreseeable future so I can haul the 10 ton excavator and pick up equipment several hours away, but I'm stoked to get a lightning as a lighter duty work truck for site visits and even throwing the 7k mini ex behind it. I'm rarely driving over an hour (70 miles max) to a jobsite anyway.
Towing range of 100 miles isn't anything to sneeze at. That would be perfect for a light duty truck around our family farm (and I would have appreciated that amount of power trying to get up to speed pulling a cattle trailer). 50 amp outlets at every grain silo and in the machine shed make charging a no brainer.
Spot on comment. How well a truck tows is important....but if it won't actually go anywhere useful....who really cares?
Good information. I agree, the range and cost of ownership are also very important.
I would like to see a 1000 mile trip, cost per mile, total time on the road ,side by side test .
Will the F150 Lightning allow you to charge while driving? I would like to see how much range could be gained by charging the lightning with medium- large generator in the back of the pickup while driving.
@BW Put the fuel in the vehicle's tank where it belongs and get more miles than burning it a generator. EVs aren't magic energy saving devices and certainly not when powered by an internal combustion engine generator.
On most you can’t charge while driving
@M8Stealth What? Like range for example... It's literally how most plug-in hybrids work. Except with a much bigger battery. Toyota RAV4 prime... Electric only has 40 miles of range. If you need more it turns on gas generator and you can get up to 600 miles with a 14.5 gal tank.
Wouldn't be at all complicated for Ford to make a modular range extender that you can put in the bed, with its own small diesel/gas tank that does literally that. As a matter of fact I believe they already have a patent for it.
But alas, keep hating.
@trmeiers There's nothing to be gained running a generator on gasoline or diesel (or coal) to charge an EV.
@M8Stealth Just curious. I think that could be interesting in the future having a "reverse hybrid" pickup that had all the power numbers of the electric vehicle with the ability for the vehicle to regenerate some of the power on its own via small internal combustion engine, increasing range and the ability to regenerate some charge back into the battery so as not to be stranded. Also, I'm not against internal combustion engines at all and I think that the future is a mix between the two.
Both trucks did great... If you need to tow heavy but not very far or very often.. the Lightning is great, If your hauling heave and long distances.. get the Diesel.
Range is only relevant if you have no where to conveniently charge it or have the spare time. All vehicles have a predetermined range. But was a good review of over all average real world test.
So what we really need is a Lightning with a small Cummins Onan range extender diesel generator!
There are lots of situations where an ev makes good sense but I think it's fair to say, heavy towing isn't really one of them. The only heavy things these trucks should be towing are camping trailers, so you've somewhere comfortable to wait while the truck recharges.
I don't think the guys are planning to tow on the Alaska trip but it would have a huge impact on a trip like that. They haven't 𝒚𝒆𝒕 had a problem finding a charger but, once they get way up North, that will become more of an issue.
@trex31 Haha, thank you.
Surprised how far i scrolled to see a sensible comment.
I loved the comparison. If I had the money laying around I would probably buy a lightning as a second vehicle to my Ram 3500. But that will never happen. In fact I will probably never be able to afford to purchase a new vehicle again as prices have risen so much.
I am still puzzled that you guys are still operating the exhaust brake on the Cummins in my opinion incorrectly. As your target downhill speed is 50 mph you should be using the cruise control in conjunction with the exhaust brake automatic setting. I would also turn the tow haul mode off on the downhill run.
Of course on the uphill run I would have the cruise control off and may use the tow haul.
Also of note you took the time to knock the Ram’s mirrors. Why don’t you similarly knock the exhaust brakes on the Ford and GM products?
You know what no one mentions in these towing tests for electric trucks? The fact that in the future trailers will have their own, (thin -- just one cell deep) cheap LFP battery packs under them that will dramatically increase the towing range for EV trucks. The same will happens for large, 18 wheels semi-trucks. On the semi, the trailers will even have flexible solar panels on its roof, sides and even rear doors to help extend the range even further.
“The fact that in the future…”
Please tell me more!
What happens when you are in the red zone,when setting up your trailer, will the truck allow you to drive? Same thing with payload. If it measures slightly over the max payload will the truck allow you to drive or is there a safety interlock that keeps the truck from driving?
i think is save to say that the electric pickup has a way to go . a great work truck if you haul light and work within the range where you can plug in when you get home.
Last summer I moved my family over 300 miles and made 14 round trips of over 600 miles, half of those trips pulling a heavy trailer. I could make the 305 mile trip at 60-70 mph and AC on, with at least 100 miles to spare in my F150, Eco 3.5 and 36 gallon fuel tank. It was just over 5 hours one way, but pulling a trailer and having to stop for a recharge might have turned 5 hours into closer to 10. No thanks! I love my F150 as it is, though around town the Lightining would be fine for some uses. The toughest towing test has to include DISTANCE or it's not much of a test. Those 'tug of wars' and pulling diesel locomotive things are just a joke in the real world.
Incredible video. Still trying to justify the huge Ford price tag but this goes a long, long way for a first attempt!
I believe in EVs, I want an EV truck that is practical for my needs (not out yet), but growing up around diesel vehicles, I do wish the audio could have picked up the rumble.
I am wondering what was the difference in the cost of electricity and diesel in this trial. Which was cheaper to operate?
I like the Trunk on the lightning and I think it is a great idea if you only drive 50 miles at a time
What do you mean 50 miles a time worse case going 75 mph still gets 230 miles unless your towing but if you plan on towing 500 miles every weekend this isn't the truck for you its still early in the ev market truck back in the day say the 50s didn't have great range either right now no its not great for towing long distance but in time yes range will get better this is for the average city folk who go to home depot twice a year or help move there kids out of there basement not towing across the country unless your retired and have all the time to waste at the chargers for cheaper towing think the model t ford was able to drive across the country no it had a 50 mile range and gas stations weren't available every where like they are today in time it will get better but to compare 100 year refined ice vehicles with 17 years of ev is kinda moot
great comparison guys! Thank you so much for doing this!!
I mean a standard F150 is already faster than the Ram, speed isn’t everything when towing…. The Ram had bigger components to last longer while towing, will stay on the road for much more time, be safer in all kinds of weather, handling confidence and braking will be worlds better on a diesel heavy duty truck.
Exactly! The high torque of the F150 is great and all but I wouldnt be doing that all the time. That much weight and high torque isnt going to make for a long lasting drivetrain. Those CV shafts are going to wear fast
@Tyrell Adams Every pickup truck driver on the internet tows a house trailer 600 miles a day.
@Peter Puller This is where you are wrong. There are hundreds of work trucks that dont travel far and don't need to. Lots of work trucks in large metro areas would fall into this category. One example , general contractors. They even have onsite power, so they could charge at the work site.
@Tyrell Adams People will use any excuse to hate on new technologies. It's the Horse and Buggy conversation all over again.
@Peter Puller think about the mall crawler moms, and the home depot DIYers!
Seriously, alot of people will save enough money charging at home to justify the extra cost of an electric powertrain.
Long trips are and will be much less convenient until solid state batteries are availible in about 5 to 10 years from now.
Not a big truck guy but very impressed by the F150 Lightning.
The Ford Lightening numbers they should have focused on are: 63% charge at start of overall test, and 53% charge at end of overall test.
Should have had two different trailers. If you’re maxing out the Lightning than you should have maxed out the Cummins. But I suppose you can’t get two trailers there and still have enough battery in the Lightning to do the test.