I like that some stories maintain a sort of mystery about what things could be in their story. It allows for the reader to make up their own mind on what that specific thing is themselves which adds a personal touch for the reader. Since not a lot of information was given to us about the Arkenstone and how it was created, we get cool theories about what it could be. J.K Rowling ruined here books by trying to explain every little mystery which ended up with readers getting wizards that poop their pants or just defecate on the floor. It's great to keep something in a book unexplained as a gift to the reader's inquisitive and creative mind while making the experience of reading the book a lot more personalised to them.
Thranduil was a Sindar who lived in the First Age and most possibly saw the Silmaril of Beren. So when Bilbo showed the Arkenstone to him and Gandalf, he must have recognized if it were the Silmaril. If it truly were a Silmaril, Thranduil would have paid any cost for it to return to the Elves. Yet, he didn't.
That's a good theory. The sindarin elves never completed the journey to valinor. So they wouldnt have necessarily been there when the jewels were forged, however we do know that those jewels did cross with morgoth in the north land passage. So it's entirely possible that connection could exist. I believe if that were so, Thranduil would have been far more forceful in possessing the arkenstone/silmaril
not only that but ummm galadriel is the niece of feanor, the literal elf that created the silmarils, and yet she never indicates that the arkenstone is a silmaril.
Even though the Arkenstone is most likely not a Silmaril, I wonder why no one considers the fact, that it could actually be one of the lesser gems that Feanor himself created? Digging in a little bit further, since it was mined in a supposedly raw form and facetted by the dwarves, it could also very well be pure 'silima', the substance from which the Silmarils were made!
@Michael Michaelagnew I've come to the conclusion that this site is for daydreamers to express themselves, albeit in an unusual way. As I've said before, Tolkien is to be read and enjoyed, not to be over-anal-ised to the nth degree by people who really don't have the wherewithal to do it!
Gonna be honest, you should do long form videos. I could sit all day and listen to you talk about LoTR lore, all day. Very few people have the gift of a voice for descriptions and telling stories. Well done as always, good sir.
My personal headcannon is that the Arkenstone was placed in the lonely mountain as a gift from Aule. It was an imitation of the simaril and a test for them to see how well they can form it.
Honestly, I'm more for the Arkenstone not being a Silmaril. The original gem's stories are just so influential and the endings to those stories so perfect that I think it's better that the Silmarils remain lost until the end of time.
@Shaylok exactly. In my personal opinion the "magic" spoken of isn't the stuff we see in LOTR but rather a reference to something that may come in the future, hinting that the Silmarils could return during the Dagor Dagorath just to name an example
Not only are their pasts, but their future is spoken for as well. As one would expect, being the Fates of Arda lie locked within them, according to Mandos.
@Elder Millennial I would find it more likely then it's simply a cystal that thouched the silmaril deep in the rivers of magma underground and got imbued with a fraction of it's power and glory.
@Elder Millennial That's actually a pretty interesting thought... and very possible too. Even if it isn't a 'fourth prototype' it could be one of the many gems Feanor made before he created the Silmarils.
I like to think that the stone was originally a fragment of either Illuin or Ormal. The two lamps that lit the first iteration of the world. Melkor smashed them and a melting fragment sealed some of the light and was buried in the destruction. Can explain the dragon sickness too if the stone has a slight taint of Melkor upon it.
@Volk_Smash not the two trees. The two lamps were created and destroyed before the elves had even arrived. The first version of Arda was ruined and scarred by Melkor when he destroyed the lamps.
The destruction was in valinor tho. That’s an entire ocean away that the dwarves couldn’t cross if they tried. It’s a cool theory but the geography doesn’t make sense
When Tolkien originally began writing The Hobbit he considered it as separate from the mythology of the Silmarillion. However, he inevitably began copying over ideas (e.g. the elven kingdom in Mirkwood plagued by giant spiders from the northern mountains and with some place called Dorwinion to the southeast... like the First Age elven kingdom of Doriath plagued by giant spiders from the northern mountains and with some place called Dorwinion to the southeast). Thus, when he introduced a precious jewel into the story he used a name for it, 'Arkenstone', which was a modernization of a term, 'eorclanstánas', he had previously used when translating the word "Silmarils" into Old English. The similarities between the Arkenstone and the Silmarils exist precisely because Tolkien was re-using the concept in a story which was originally intended to be separate from his 'Middle-earth' tales. Did the Arkenstone then 'become' a Silmaril when The Hobbit was incorporated into the larger mythology? Presumably not, because of the issue raised in the video... the Silmarils were specifically fated to be lost until the end of Arda.
I think Tolkien imagined the stone as a proof of dwarves determination to dig jewels... so much they found the heart of a mountain, the ultimate jewel that no other race would ever find.
By that token, isn't it comparable to say that he imagined the ring of power as a cool magic ring that let you turn invisible, but that plausibly had even more fanciful and incredible secrets behind it? Both of these examples are debuted in The Hobbit, at that, Tolkien's very first work, and one that started as a literal child's bedtime story. So, as the ring was fleshed out into a more meaningful plot device in the context of the world as it developed, couldn't he have carried the concept of the arkenstone on as well when it came time to invent the Silmarils?
Ungoliant consumes lesser gems before morgoth refuses her the silmarils. After the first age we know she buries herself somewhere deep in middle earth until she, in her uttermost famine, devours herself. Its possible the arkenstone is one of those lesser gems, brought to middle earth in the bowels of ungoliant, then left under the earth for the dwarves to find long after her passing
Bullshit pal. pure and simple. You are looking into it too much. The Arkenstone was found in the lonely mountain long after all the other Dwarven houses were established, and was only developed after the dragons chased them out of the Grey mountains.
@Broadbull, Enabler of Uncounted Combos I agree this is a plausible theory, but anything that Ungoliant ate was destroyed entirely, imo. At the Absolute, very least, there is no possible way it could shine with its own inner light.
Something you've missed is something doesn't have to _be_ a Silmaril to contain the _light_ of a Silmaril -- as Galadriel's phial proves. I think the curse of avarice attached to the Silmarils because of the dire oaths of Feanor and his sons would have an especially strong effect on dwarves because we know that the Rings of Power had that effect on them, something not even Sauron had expected. Galadriel's phial had an especially potent effect on Shelob as a daughter of Ungoliant who devoured the light of the Trees. It stands to reason that the Arkenstone, if it contained the light of a Silmaril as the Silmarils contained the light of the Trees, would carry a similar kind of transferred effect.
I always thought the Arkenstone contains the silmaril. Kind of like an amber encasing a fossil. Thus mortals were able to handle it. And since no one knows it is the silmaril it is technically still lost until end of time.
Then it just proves that you have, along with ost on here, that you have an overactive imagination. just enjoy Tolkien and don't try and understand things that aren't there pal.
@Ethan Quirk For sure, lava currents beneath the earth's crust could easily have played a role. So often the takeaway seems to be, "well it was cast into a pit of lava, so after that it couldn't have been anywhere else". Nevermind that being carried elsewhere in the magma sea beneath the rocky crust, for that magma to then cool into rock itself, is actually the de facto method for anything to wind up in a given place beneath the earth's surface to begin with. And that includes the arkenstone. While we can't take for granted that all of Middle Earth's tectonic makeup would be identical to our Earth's, mountain ranges, volcanoes, and chasms of lava sure suggest it's pretty close, at least.
@too big the one option i can think of is that maybe, back when it was cast into the casm, that casm was the still vulcanically active, lonley mountain. Maybe, at that time, it was the only fiery casm to cast the silmaril into. The "protection might be the spirit of its bearer, or the silmaril itsself creating some kind of shell. Activly or through interaction of magic and earth. Its explainable absolutely. But I agree, its not likely.
"The Lonely Mountain would have needed to be a volcano" Looking at it geologically, it most likely is! There really aren't any other mechanisms for a singular mountain to form other than a volcanic hotspot. This doesn't however explain how Maedhros' silmaril could travel under two different mountain ranges to get there, or the lack of burning those with evil in their heart. (I'm going to go off on a limb and say the "silmarils burn mortals" is not 100% accurate, not just because of Beren handling one, but the dwarves who set it in the Nauglamir must have been handling it also.)
@Bleddyn Wolf Arda is a fair bit older than people think. In the 30s and 40s tolkien had a Valian year (Years of the Lamps and the Years of the Trees) as equivalent to 9.5 solar years. In the 50s he seemed to change it to 144 solar years for each Valian year. If you include the Valian years as being 9.5 years and the 7045 years of the 1st to 3rd age you get 56'305 solar years. If you use the latter 144 years to a Valian year its 727'045 years. Still youngish for a lot of geological processes I know, but it's worth noting the idea that Arda is just several thousand years old is wrong.
@DanielJohnJacob Completely agree with you, that was the meaning of my last sentence. I am also a specialist on geodynamics and trying to imagine vertical movements without the mantle seems impossible. Since everything were created instead of being formed by natural processes, the only thing feasible would be to describe the landscape transformation over time (erosion etc.) since water and rocks look (mostly) the same (no mithril on Earth!). Even though looking at thousands of years isn't such a long time.
I have two non-volcanic freestanding mountains in my own works, the Isolated Crest and Shogun Mountain. Both were raised by the magic of Genbu, the High King of the North. Shogun Mountain is solid rock, save for a large inner chamber because it's the workshop of Yamata no Orochi, the Shogun of all venomous snakes, because Genbu pulled straight from the bedrock to form it. Though the Isolated Crest is a technically a volcano but not your usual one. It's what I call a "hydro-volcano". It's the source of a river and I even delved into the science behind how it would work. The raising of the Crest turned that part of the plains that formed Suzaku's South into a forested area.
While the Arkenstone glowed with its own light, I've never gotten the feeling it shined as brightly as a close star. As mentioned in the video on The Sons of Fëanor who hunted the Simarils, even though they'd not heard of one being set in the sky, they immediately realized from the ground that it must be a silmaril. That's a lot more light than the Arkenstone apparently produced, giving me another reason to believe the Arkenstone was not a silmaril, much as I love the idea of one of them being rediscovered.
Perhaps a compromise? Feanor presumably didn't create the Silmarils out of nothing; only Eru has that power. The Silmarils would have started as raw, uncut gemstones that Feanor worked into the marvelous creations that they ended up being. Maybe the Arkenstone is the same type of raw gemstone that the Silmarils were made from?
The Arkenstone could have been a lesser early work of Feanor or another elven smith. Or, as someone said, a gift from Aule to the dwarves, or any number of things. Tolkien had a habit of not explaining everything. Middle Earth is old and not everything has been remembered.
Personally I like to believe that this was a gift from Aulë to his children. I don't know when did he make it and put it in the mountain, but I believe it must be him.
No, I think it would have gone like that: Manwe: Elves are better than dwarves Aule: No! Manwe: Dwarves are greedy! Aule: Ummm... Elves just committed three kinslayings over gems... Manwe: True, that was a mistake, but dwarves would have done even worse things over gems! Aule: Bet? Manwe: Ok. Make a gem similar to the sillmarills
Aule: Mmmm , you know , those elves surely had a lot of fun (tragedy) with those Silmarils , i bet my dwarves could use something like that Manwe: Dude no Tulkas: Double dare you bro >>>>>>> Fastforward 10K yrs
It's also hard to believe that none of the Wise would have recognized a Silmaril for what it is. Still, the Arkenstone's origins are mysterious. What is it about a "heart of a mountain" that can produce its own light? It must have been imbued with such light by a powerful figure. If not Fëanor, then who? And when? Perhaps the Vala Aulë created it and placed it there when he created the mountain? After all, he also created the dwarves in secret. Maybe this was another of his secret creations? Could there be other such stones in the roots of other mountains? And perhaps it was fate that his children, the dwarves, would discover it.
You fools are reading way too much into this, and are making suppositions on most of Tolkien's works. Don't you understand that Tolkien's works are to be read and enjoyed, not ripped apart and over-analysed!
@James Hedin The Silmarils were not a secret. Before Feanor began to begrudge the sight of them to others, he use to wear them around. I highly doubt that Gandalf had never seen them. A better argument would be that in their Istari form those maiar didn't remember as much of their life in Valinor, like Gandalf says when he comes back he had relearned much that he had forgotten. You should have went with that smart guy. I wasn't saying that Gandalf was there with Feanor at the moment Feanor created the Silmarils, but Gandalf would have seen Feanor wear them on the high occasions that he did.
Love this theory, I personally love this theory as well because, like you said, another artifact from the 1st age is linked to the 2nd and 3rd age, it's kind of sad that the Arcenstone isn't a Silmaril.
Warhammer 40K lore nerd here; feeling displaced by the way GW has been gutting the lore of late. Always loved LotR and the beautiful world it's set in. Coming back to it more and more now to remind myself of what good lore-building actually looks like. You have a great channel here, and I love every minute of it. Subbed :)
Awesome video as always! The Arkenstone is one of my favorite objects in Middle Earth. As for other mysteries you could make a video on, maybe the fate of Maglor? I always found it interesting that Tolkien left his fate a mystery.
The Arkenstone is energized Uranium 335. That is why it glows, and drives thoss desiring it mad. Perhaps I am mad. Perhaps the mystery itself is enough.
@IceFireGaming Thranduil's father, Oropher, was a noble of Doriath, as he had a substantial household that he took with him when he traveled over the Blue Mountains. As Thranduil brought with him the Sindarin culture, to the point that his halls were modeled on Menegroth, it stands to reason he was an adult during the Fall of Doriath. Further, it's explicitly stated that he 'did not love Dwarves, and thought [Thorin] an enemy', which would logically follow if he lived through the death of Thingol and what followed after. He would likely have seen the Silmaril when Dior wore it.
@IceFireGaming Fair, but I am not sure. I couldn't find anything about Thranduils childhood in the books. He and his father were from Doriath, and his father and other Sindar elves travelled to Mirkwood to adopt a simpler life with the green eleves, away from the Noldor they didn't like. However, Tolkien states that Thranduil shaped his mansion in Thingol's Menegroth fashion. I ask, how could he knew what Menegroth looked like if he hadn't lived there or at least visited numerous times? Let's assume he was a child when Thingol was assassinated. His grandson Dior ruled for quite some time before inheriting the silmaril from Lúthien, and much like Thingol he could not resist displaying the Silmaril for everyone to see (and got killed for that). I believe there were many opportunities for Thranduil to, at least, take a glimpse at it (and let's not consider other possibilities, starting when the Sindar fleed Menegroth taking Diors daughter and the silmaril until Earendil's trip). And from Tolkiens descriptions about how people reacted to the silmarils, I believe those "glimpses" would have been memorable. Or at least strong enough to never be forgotten.
A solution: During one of the many periods when the Silmarils were under threat of theft, a gem of great resounding brilliance was placed near a gathering of the stones, and in time, began to reflect their light in the merest fraction, but even that was astounding to most. Like a copy of Mona Lisa made by Leonardo's best student, or a ceremonial duplicate of Excalibur crafted by Merlin as a prize to a Knights' Contest. Once it had absorbed what brilliance it could, it was left as a decoy, and at least one thief fell for it. Nabbing what would become the Arkenstone, they either met their end when their employer realized the truth or cast it away in embarrassment and shame near enough to the lands of the Dwarves that it would settle in and eventually be found. Perhaps the nameless things in the Earth saw it, tried to grab it but were repulsed, pushing it along its way till it was unearthed. So it was the Arkenstone was not one of the fabled Silmarils, but was blessed all the same by their reflected light and its unwitting service in waylaying thieves from them.
Great video. I love the idea of the Arkenstone being one of the Silmarils. More so, I thought it might "contain" a Silmaril. Through underground rivers and lava flows, it passed through the earth's core. Intense heat and pressure encasing it in diamond like crystal. That explains how it could be shaped and held by mortals. Also goes with what Tolkien said about them remaining lost since it was not actually found.
Have you ever done, or would you consider doing, a video that goes over Gandalf’s names among the various races and why he’s called different names? Olórin, Mithrandir, Incánus, and Tharkûn? Love this channel. You do awesome work!
I like the idea that the indestructible Silmaril cast into the fiery chasm became encapuslated by a mineral shell and retreated from the fire to nestle in the crust elsewhere, which happens to be the heart of Erebor. The prophetic "discovered at the end of time when Feanor returns from the Halls of Mandos" can be an epic moment when Feanor does the unthinkable and shatters the Arkenstone, revealing the Silmarlil at its core. May not be author's intent, but its a good story anyway. :D
I think it would have fed into his ego, perhaps making his fall worse or even hastening it. He was always jealous of Gandalf, so I don't think the ring would've changed that.
Curunír loved power above all else, if anything it would've compromised the Elves more in the war against Sauron. The elves never trusted him as much as Mithrandir. As stated above its likely Saruman would have used ut to further his knowledge of ring lore. It wiuld have been terrible for the elves had Sauron gained it,or even been able to influence it vicariously through Saruman.
Great video Matt! I have two ideas for future videos if you like the sound of them: 1: What if Bilbo did NOT spare Gollum. That would change Frodo and Sam’s route and possible even the destruction of the Ring. 2: Rank your fave Jackson films extended scenes (I love extended Council of Elrond). Thanks for your great content !
I like to think that the Arkenstone was an unknown star, impacted the earth and over the ages became the seed that grew the mountain and the source of its wealth.
The best indication that it's not a Silmaril? One of Feanor's sons didn't pop up out of nowhere, murder everyone there and then take it. It's just an exceptional gem.
I personally like to think that the Arkenstone is *another* famous gem from the First Age -- not the Silmaril, but one of the great jewels lost to Morgoth, and carried east.
I know this never happened in the books but I was always curious what would have happened if Thorin saw Bilbo with the One Ring. Would it have taken over the Arkenstone as the thing he desired?
Bilbo showed all the dwarves his ring after their ordeal with the spiders. In LotR there's a mention that everyone in Erebor and Dale know about the ring, which is how Gollum found out how to find Bilbo in the shire (he overheard people discussing it).
@Slow Down Sauron only made the One Ring. Calibrimbor and the other elves of Eregion made all the others under instruction from Sauron when he was disguising himself as Annatar. The One Ring woiuld have likely corrupted a dwarf, but not given them over to the will of Sauron. Sauron was actually frustrated that the seven did not have the affect of on dwarves of putting them under his power, and that is why he actively worked to recover them.
@Valentin Kambushev yeah ur right. I agree with you but what if the one ring could also makes dwarves "gold mad" like the seven rings of power? Sauron made all the rings anyways, so why not his one true ring too? Dwarves cannot be wraiths but they can get gold sickness which in a way could destroy them. I don't think one ring can be resisted by anyone, no matter the race for too long. Gimli too, if exposed too long could've fallen. That is why Frodo was chosen. Bcz he and Bilbo had resisted the ring's effects for a long time even with some relapses. None of the others could've done that for so long like that.
@Slow Down well Dwarves are naturally resistant towards evil magic. The seven rings didn't have the same effect they had on the humans and Gimli, despite being in the presence of the One when it's fully active, never showed any interest in it. And even though it never happened in the book Gimli is the only one to try to destroy the One Ring.
I like to think that the one ring was "asleep", like a bear waking up from a nap in winter/spring. That might be why Thorin and the dwarves weren't affected much. Personally my theory is that everything played a role in botfa. Dragon sickness, one ring etc
sept it is wrong theory, the one sits on Erendils forehead, the second was cast in a gorge of the deep earth in the old world that now is flooded by the sea after the last war against Morgoth. and the last was Cast in the sea by maglor. so no it isn't a silmaril
Thank you for recognising the importance of a mystery in a good story. It's like a magic trick, it fascinates you when you don't know how it works. But as soon as the secret is revealed it loses weight. Unless you are a master at continuing the mystery without giving too much away. A.K.A Tolkien.
My personal theory is that the Arkenstone was a Silmaril in early drafts, but as Tolkien thought about the consequences of it, he changed it to his own thing. I think it's at least inspired by the Silmarils.
Great Video! :) As for other mysteries: I've always wondered who the dead king at the shut gate in Dunharrow is, whose fingers are clawed into the door. As far as I remember, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas ride past him, and that's the only mention of him. I've always wondered whether it was a previous King of Gondor, who lost his way, or perhaps someone who thought he was related to Isildur, but was not.
Good video. I'm with your theory on the Arkenstone. Mainly, as The Hobbit was written first as a children's story and the tales of Middle Earth were built and expanded on it, Tolkein would have retroactively created a more obvious connection between any earlier appearance of a gem (ie. Beren's jewel from Morgoth's crown) to a contemporary jewel found in the Lonely Mountain. So no, it's not a Silmaril, but was magical.
John Rateliff's _History of the Hobbit_ discusses this from the viewpoint of the history of how Tolkien's ideas developed (pp. 603-609 in the first edition; I haven't seen the second). The upshot seems to be that the Arkenstone was for a while a sloppy borrowing from the Silmarillion world into what was then the separate world of The Hobbit, but when The Lord of the Rings forced The Hobbit and the Silmarillion into the same overarching history, the Arkenstone could no longer be an actual Silmaril but only something with partial similarities to them. One of the details of this history of Tolkien's ideas is that when the medieval English mariner AElfwine (who got to Tol Eressea via the Straight Road) translated the Annals of Valinor into Old English, he explained "Similarils" as "Eorclanstanas" (in History of Middle-earth vol. 4, p. 282 in hardback or 335 in mass-market paperback).
@Jeff MacDonald They also bear similarity in that unlike the One Ring, the Silmarils and the Arkenstone are true examples of a MacGuffin: that is to say, the only truly important property they bear is that everybody wants them.
That's basically it. The Hobbit was originally a tale told to his children not intended to be part of, but drawing on a lot of the ideas he used in the stories of the First Age - which he'd long been writing by that point. The Arkenstone is based on his ideas of the Silmarils and plays a similar role in the story. As Thranduil and his underground halls and feud with the dwarves are based on Thingol and Menegroth and his betrayal by the dwarves who made the Nauglamír. When he started the LotR and brought the Hobbit fully into the world of Middle-Earth those parallels remained but became a bit more awkward.
This was allways an amazing theory for me, 'cause I loved to explain all the threatenings and wars in lotr with the disturbed peace of the three silmaril, such as all the horror started with the great wars of the 1th age with morgoth taking them. But I know this is very far from reality, I just loved the idea... Nonetheless I guess I'm glad that the arkenstone is its own cosmic and misterious thing such as Tom Bombadil isn't Illuvatar, just because I like it when things can stay for their own and aren't kind of fanservice. Luckily Tolkien had a talent to create allways new things with a new and interesting mystery in it ;) Great video btw :) :)
Maybe each home of the Dwarves had something special hidden combined with some equally powerful misfortune? Mithril+Balrog for Moria and The Arkenstone + Smaug for the Lonely Mountain. Maybe the other places had equally special or powerful hidden objects that just weren't found!
I think the Arkenstone was like a way of showing how beautiful jewels can lead to strife and disagreements between groups of people that leads to conflict. I mean, the whole conflict between Feanor, the Noldor, and Morgoth was due to these beautiful Silmarils. The greed to posses them can also be shown through Thorin's greed to possess the Arkenstone because it represented his right to rule. Both of these beautiful jewels represented different things, but they also started bloody conflicts. There is a reason why Thorin's dying words were him telling Bilbo how much better the world would be if people didn't care about power and riches. Thorin learned his lesson at the cost of his life. I think this affected Bilbo so much that maybe that's why he was able to resist the ring so much, give it to Frodo, and pass this perspective to Frodo as well.
Not to mention that Galadriel and Cirdan are two characters (the first two that comes to my mind) that literally saw the actual silmarils, and they would recognize immediately if such a special gem just appears out of nowhere after thousands of years...
You could cover Saruman's ring, the one that he made himself. What were its powers, and what became of it. Also, what of the rumor of giant tree people that Sam was talking about early in the story and why wasnt it ever told to Treebeard? Also, you could make the case for middle earth actually having existed in our timeline.
Maybe it could be an early trial run of the Silmaril’s created by Fëanor. He probably experimented around tried and failed/half failed (quality not up to the standard he wanted) in the creation process of the perfect Silmiril’s several times before perfecting them. I’m sure crafting the Silmaril was a learning process, not something he just immediately was able to perfect. Maybe the Arkenstone was one of few or many intitial models, imperfect (but still wondrous) version or trial run for part of the actual Silmaril’s crafting process/creation? All great craftsman have abundant experience and learn more the more they make, the Arkenstone is possible a learning step in his process? And remember, not just the Silmaril’s, but others of Fëanor’s vast treasures and creations were also stole by Morgoth when he slain Finwe and stole from Fëanor’s vault. Then eventually it ended up in the dwarves possession after Morgoth loses it somehow (after all he was continuously fighting different groups and managed to lose the Silmaril’s). Therefore it possesses a lot of the amazing qualities like a Silmaril but just isn’t quite as wonderful and unbreakable/pure because it was the final form/version.
My working theory is that the Arkenstone is one of the gems put in the world by Aulë. Maybe he put 7 jewels in some 7 big mountains of 7 clans of the dwarves, but Arkenstone seems to be special. So, my best guess is that it's unique, and he put that in there to serve a greater purpose in uniting the dwarves in times of need. The Lonely Mountain stands out from all other mountains, because it feels artificial. Mountains aren't naturally lonely, they are grouped in mountain ranges. So the Lonely Mountain feels to me like being a protective crust for the Arkenstone, and Aulë knew only dwarves would eventually find it.
I have wondered this for years. I think Tolkien probably took inspiration form the silmarills he had already created. Maybe at one point he even thought of them as the same.
I think the Arkenstone was a gem worthy of becoming a Silmaril. Perhaps Feanor simply imbued three priceless gems with magic light in a fashion that he never disclosed. If so, the Akenstone would have been a worthy candidate.
I think it’s funny that Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends but Tolkien hated that C.S. Lewis didn’t always have reasons for why things or characters were the way there are in Narnia but Tolkien knew all of this and had all this lore behind everything. Part of what makes this so funny to me is that because of this Tolkien almost ended their friendship.
The Arkenstone was clearly the unknown 7th Infinity Stone. I mean, what better way to hide one of the Infinity Stones than to put it in a completely different storyline? Brilliant!
Fantastic video as always. You do such a fantastic job at explaining the facts of Middle Earth’s history, and personally I’d love to hear more of your personal opinions! Maybe rankings of your favorite characters or stories from the legendarium, etc.
When you look at the stories that have been inspired by Tolkein's work, the fact that so many different fantasy worlds in literature and pop culture are inspired by Tolkein just shows how impactful his books really are. For instance, Warhammer fantasy, Game of Thrones, and The Elder Scrolls all include similar stories to that of Tolkein with their own spin on it. For instance, there is something similar in the Elder Scrolls series where their version of Dwarves (essentially elves which preside inside mountain halls) find inside the red mountain the heart of Lorkan. A gem which is described in the same way as the Arkenstone from the Hobbit. However, this gem is the heart of a God that was cast into the mortal realm by the other gods. In that story the Red Mountain was (at the time of the dwarves) an active volcano.
I would love to hear you speculate about the idea that Sting is in fact the knife of Beren, Angrist, reforged by Elves to give it the power to glow when orcs are nearby.
Wow! I never thaught about that however NOTR maybe the though it is not a Silmaril because it is indestructible it is possible that the Silmaril of Maedhros came to the lonely mountain in the reshaping of the world after the destruction of Numenor. Thank you so much and keep up your amazing work!
Gandalf was a Maiar who lived with the Valar once so he probably saw the Silmarils, if the arkenstone was indeed a Silmaril he would have known. Also Thranduil lived with the king of Doriath who had the silmaril from Beren, so he would also know what the stone looks like . The Arkenstone could be one of the great gems that the Noldor brought with them to middle-earth. Or, a better theory, it could be a stone made by Aulë to the first kings of the dwarves...since they lived from the beginning in the far mountains.. and in the mountain it was found.
I considered the theory myself, long ago. What clenched the issue for me is that the Silmarils radiate their own light, the light from the ancient trees in valinor, instead of reflecting that from the outside -- even though at the end the Hobbit says that the Arkenstone will light up when enemies are near.
I'd love for you to cover the theory on Earnil being wounded by a morgul blade and turning into a lesser-wraith in the form of Gothmog during the battle of the Pelennor, who was the Lieutenant of Minas Morgul. This theory is very popular among players of LOTRO and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it!
@Paul Mutzel Tolkien estate was involved in the game, but the devs can’t go against established canon. They do take creative liberties on expanding the lore. It takes the form as things such as Morgul blades turning people into lesser wraiths more often in these works, and Morgul sorcery being a “religion” practiced by followers of Sauron to gain powers and many more.
@Hailey ah I see. Thanks for the reply :) the game is not considered canon though right? Or rather how much involvement is there from the Tolkiens in terms of these story parts?
I don't think the Arkenstone was supposed by Tolkien to be one of the Silmarils. However, I'd like to think that it's one of the other gems created by Fëanor (after all, he made a lot of them), which ended up in Middle Earth perhaps inadvertently carried and missed by Ungoliant, perhaps somewhere in the creases of her body, and it dropped in the deep caves of the mountain when she was dwelling there. More likely, though, Tolkien just thought of it as being some random gem, completely unrelated to the events in Valinor.
Some other theories that I've seen for the Arkenstone: - A shard of the Two Lamps; - A test version of what would eventually be a Silmaril; - Someone/Dwarves trying to copy one, not actually being "found" in the case of dwarves trying to manufacture one; - Silima, the crystaline material Feanor used to make the Silmarils And others more. I personally have my own and think all of them have their own merit. It's fun to imagine connections and origins for things on this vast, deep and rich world!
Should the Arkenstone have happened to be a long lost Silmaril, the elves would definitely make claim on it. Remember that most of the elves in Middle Earth are Ñoldorin and they would very much see a refound Silmaril as the greatest heirloom of their people, and for all elves in general considering it would be the last remaining chance for someone to witness the spendour of the Two Trees (not counting Galadriels hair here because it is little in resemblence compared to a Silmaril).
Is it possible that the Silmarils were made out of materials such as the Arkenstone? We know that Feanor crafted the Silmarils, but do we know how he did so? Judging by how Feanor once asked Galadrial for her hair, I think it is possible that someone like Feanor with a dark heart would need to take something already with light and to transform it into one of the Silmarils. Not only that, but how do we know that the Arkenstone was the only stone of it's kind? What's to say that there aren't more gems like the Arkenstone out there? I think that Feanor took three gems just like the Arkenstone and turned them into the Silmarils. But those are just my thoughts...
don't forget that in the end the Silmarils became the Silmarils because they caught the light of the two trees. Also if I remember correctly afterwards the Silmaril did not take up/reflect other light but emitted the light of the two trees from them and as far as we know even the white tree of Gondor though a descendent of one of the two trees does not have the property of the light emitting flowers/fruits. The Arkenstone however is described to reflect the light more like a diamond I would assume. So no real light from within but rather reflecting light shining on it and probably breaking it. Also Feanor wasn't evil at the point where he crafted the Silmaril (however he wasn't a particularily good person either I would say). Also I am not sure that gems that appeared in the holy land can also be found on the Middle Earth continent.
How about this theory - the arkenstone is a larger jewel, that contains the intact indestructible silmaril inside it. That explains why it can be handled and worked on by the dwarves. Also maybe for what tolkien said, maybe at the end of the world, the arkenstone will be destroyed, revealing the silmaril inside it. I dont know if i fully buy this theory but it does kinda make sense.
@Fredrik Dunge the text doesn't say as far as i can remember, and even then, the body would just burn and melt, seriously look up what happens when a body hits lava, its not like the movies at all
@Fredrik Dunge thats not how bodies work. bodies are far less dense than rocks, so the simaril would would have sunken far faster than the light elven body, which would have floated on the surface and burned up
@Bleddyn Wolf We don't know what effect soemthing like a silmaril would have on what's around it. Maybe it's the elf, the carbon of his body turned to diamond by the magic and heat and pressure.
That stone is the raw materials from which the silmarils were fashioned; coming from the heavens and being primordial, so it has a touch of the initial music, including the discord of Morgoth
So glad I’m not the only person who considered this. My idea was that ignorance protected those who found the Arkenstone; that Feanor’s curse would not be brought to life because nobody understood what they had, that nobody was actually pursuing the power of the Simarils but instead came to it by chance without knowing.
Thank you for your videos and thanks for subtitles, so it´s easier for me to watch and read it because of the language barrier. Thanks. Love from Czech Republic for everyone, who admires Tolkien´s wonderfull world and is watching videos that may educate him.
Here's something to think about. Why were NO OTHER hearts of mountains ever dug up? So this gem is special somehow. Especially if this is the only mountain with a heart
You discuss what the Arkenstone isn't at great length, but you left out any opinion about what it might be. I feel like a part 2 to this video is something that should be considered. I am very interested in hearing your theories on it.
I believe Bilbo didn't start drastically aging until the ring was destroyed. He did age some in Rivendale but was not as frail as on his way to the west. Remember he spends at least a year in Rivendale before the Council of Elrond.
The Arkenstone, as I always thought of it, was a dwarven attempt at a Silmaril. The great craftsmen of the dwarves imbued the gem with its own light, but since that light was not as pure as the light of the trees, it fell short. But still super cursed.
Could you cover what it must of been like for Gandalf to not remember the way to go in Moria? How crazy is that for a wizard? are their memories really that good or what?
You are absolutely right-the fact that a person can sit down and wonder at all the 'if's and "maybe's left behind by these great works, as they do with our own history, _does_ make the world of Tolkien seem very, _very_ real. And that's amazing!
One silver lining of Amazon's Rings of Prime, which heretofore shall be known as "The Atrocity," is that my interest in ACTUAL Tolkien Lore is renewed, and I've found your channel! Thank you!
My theory is simple: Many were enamored of the works of Feanor. He had apprentices, and certainly, others would have attempted to make their own. Just as the rings were copied, so were the Silmarils. The Arkenstone is one of those copies or even possibly a prototype, and near enough that it too was affected by Feanor's oath. When crafted into its final form by the dwarves, they fell under its sway. Quite possibly placed by Aule as a lesson and warning to his children. In this case they found a pretty rock. But elsewhere they were not so lucky. Imagine if the Arkenstone had been embedded in Smaug and not still in the horde.
I thoroughly LOVE the artwork and theory. It's easy to compare to actual stuff on our planet, while at the same time allows the mind to go to a different world entirely and honestly forget your still seemingly here on earth. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
The world was reshaped after the fall of Numenor from a flat plane to a sphere. Therefore, the Silmaril could easily have made its way under the Lonely Mountain. Also, there are actually VERY few people we actually see handle the Arkenstone: Bilbo, Bard, and maybe the Elf king, all of which could be classed with Beren.
I think that if Tolkien had intended even to hint that the Arkenstone was a Silmaril there would be more in The Hobbit to support it, especially since there are other references to the First Age in The Hobbit that are supportable (blades from Gondolin, Elrond, the seemingly eternally held grudges of Elves of all types and Dwarves of all types). That being said, your videos are terrific and this one was fun to watch, partly because I was so surprised by the premise. Another thing to consider: the Silmarils and the One Ring are items into which the creator put a piece of themself, so that when broken or destroyed, it would also destroy the maker. In terms of speculating on the nature of the Arkenstone, could any of the Naugrim who shaped it have put a piece of their self into it? This would have given it an attribute that made it more Silmaril like. (Silmarilish?) (Yavanna also puts a piece of herself into the Two Trees, but being immortal, she can't bind her immortality to them. It is simply power she spent and could no longer use.)
If it was a Silmaril, Gandalf would have recognize it for sure. Not because of the gem itself, but for the light of the trees of Valinor was unmistakable. He would have take it back to Manwë.
I love this channel and everything you’ve covered; if I could put my request in I was wondering if you would please make a video about the chapters on time travel in The Lost Road? Maybe cover theories based on other works of Tolkien about where the story would’ve gone if he had finished it? I hope you consider it, thank you and keep up the great work 😊
maybe it was like some unknown "silmaril" of aulë, created at the founding of arda, and hidden as a present for his children? it certainly has a lot of parallels to a silmaril, including a propensity to cause those associated with it to swear terrible oaths to their doom.
I like to imagine that the dwarves fashioned the Arkenstone in the likeness of the Silmaril, since they wanted the Silmaril Thingol had in his possession, but could never have it.
My theory is that it was just a massive gem that went from dragon hoard to dragon hoards (for lack of better vocab). That’s why it became such an obsessive object. Edit: it is well known that dragons were attacking dwarfs in all sorts of side moments that aren’t even written by Tolkien
We should always keep in mind that, while Tolkien described his world in a lot of depth, he also changed it a lot. Not only that but also he sometimes purposely obfuscated some details, repeated themes, and used similar story points to mimic actual legend and folklore. I always thought this last point was the case with the Silmarils and the Arkenstone, a legendary object that appears in a story, which seems to share traits with another even older object. One can imagine the Arkenstone might have been just a very beautiful jewel, but over time descrptions added flavour, inspired by the legend of the Silmarils, and that's the story that "got to our hands".
Perhaps when the Silmaril that was cast into the fiery pit over the 5000 years had a gem form around the Silmaril, and it is now at the heart of the Arkenstone with the gem protecting it as a case. That would explain why the dwarves could work the gem, why mortals could handle the gem only touching its outer case. The only way to know if the Arkenstone held a Silmaril would be to destroy the Arkenstone, and like Tolkien said that probably wouldn't happen until the very end of the world...
The Sillmaril could have changed, being sunk in lava for thousands of years, or magically with sacrifice and sorrow of Maedhros. And no orc or evil person touched the Arken Stone, so it still could be.
Great content as usual. It would be interesting to hear a history of the realm of Dorwinion because other then knowing they produce wine and they are located close to the sea of Rhun we don't know a lot about them. But given their proximity to the Easterlings it would be interesting to speculate if they were on the side of the Men of the West or supported Sauron.
My head canon is that the gem the dwarves worked the arkenstone into was actually a crystal case that would allow others to hold it easily without burning.
Given the desire and greed it could instill, and it’s radiance, it’s not hard to think there might be a connection with the silmarils. It’s a fun theory for sure, especially as it adds another connection between the first and third age. You bring up good points, unless it’s possible the silmaril itself was encased in gemstone
I also don't think that the Arkenstone is a Silmaril, even though I do find the idea of it compelling. But I love the thought of a connection between the three Silmarils and the Arkenstone with the four respective elements. One Silmaril in the Sky, one in the depths of the Water. I know that the one Maedhros cast into the volcano is said to dwell in the Earth forever, but I think you could also see it as being lost in the deep Fires of the earth, making Earth the last element that remains. And then the Arkenstone is found as a gem deeply hidden in the stone of a mountain, centuries later. Idk if this makes any sense, but it seems almost like it balances things out. Three Silmarils lost in three elements of the world, another magical and somewhat ill-fated gem found in the last remaining element later. I don't actually think that there's a connection there, it just seems to far-fetched to make sense for the overarching story, but I love the somehow poetic idea of it. Especially since the Arkenstone doesn't really have an "origin-story", unlike the Silmarils it is more like the heart/soul of the mountain itself. But being a naturally formed part of the world implies that the Valar made it, more specifically Aule, if I'm not mistaken, and - knowing the Valar - that means that there was a definite purpose behind it. And then, Aule was also the one who taught Feanor himself how to forge gems, indirectly enabling the creation of the Silmarils, which is another faint connection that is fun to explore.
The theory of the Arkenstone being a Silmaril falls apart the moment you actually move into the lore and look past its appearance. Also I think Gandalf would've recognized one of the Silmarils, being an ancient Maiar and most likely quite familiar with their history. Thranduil, while not as old as Gandalf, would most likely have recognized it as well, being an elf born when the Silmarils were already created, but well known amongst the elves.
Silmarils were made from a clear mineral filled with the glowing sap of the Trees. It is said that Feanor used some very durable gem, which was also luminescent, to house the sap. All this together made them indestructible. Maybe the Arkenstone is made from the original mineral but without the glowing tree sap?
What do you think? Would it be fun if the Arkenstone was a Silmaril? Or are you glad the Arkenstone is it's own separate thing?
I like that some stories maintain a sort of mystery about what things could be in their story. It allows for the reader to make up their own mind on what that specific thing is themselves which adds a personal touch for the reader. Since not a lot of information was given to us about the Arkenstone and how it was created, we get cool theories about what it could be. J.K Rowling ruined here books by trying to explain every little mystery which ended up with readers getting wizards that poop their pants or just defecate on the floor. It's great to keep something in a book unexplained as a gift to the reader's inquisitive and creative mind while making the experience of reading the book a lot more personalised to them.
@Jason Groven
But Shelob ate those gems
@Mylar Hyrule
Yet Gandalf didn’t even recognise the one ring.
@Jesse Pollard Silmarils are indestructible
@Zain Marai seems like it already caused plenty of harm
Thranduil was a Sindar who lived in the First Age and most possibly saw the Silmaril of Beren. So when Bilbo showed the Arkenstone to him and Gandalf, he must have recognized if it were the Silmaril. If it truly were a Silmaril, Thranduil would have paid any cost for it to return to the Elves. Yet, he didn't.
That's a good theory. The sindarin elves never completed the journey to valinor. So they wouldnt have necessarily been there when the jewels were forged, however we do know that those jewels did cross with morgoth in the north land passage. So it's entirely possible that connection could exist. I believe if that were so, Thranduil would have been far more forceful in possessing the arkenstone/silmaril
yeah don't they have gold and hot elven women they can trade for it?
not only that but ummm galadriel is the niece of feanor, the literal elf that created the silmarils, and yet she never indicates that the arkenstone is a silmaril.
Yeah but it's spending over 5,000 years in the depths of the earth in shifting magma could easily explain all of that away
@cr90 captain Not to a Noldor.
Even though the Arkenstone is most likely not a Silmaril, I wonder why no one considers the fact, that it could actually be one of the lesser gems that Feanor himself created?
Digging in a little bit further, since it was mined in a supposedly raw form and facetted by the dwarves, it could also very well be pure 'silima', the substance from which the Silmarils were made!
Great comment
If it were a Silmaril, then at least someone in the story would have touched it and reacted, "YEOW! &^$&!"
It is pure Elvish propaganda and chauvinism to suggest that the greatest gem stones of the dwarf is an elven creation.
@Michael Michaelagnew I've come to the conclusion that this site is for daydreamers to express themselves, albeit in an unusual way. As I've said before, Tolkien is to be read and enjoyed, not to be over-anal-ised to the nth degree by people who really don't have the wherewithal to do it!
@Benjamin G Sokol LOL
Another thing that i really find interesting is how Thorin's oath sounds incredibly similar to that of Fëanor and his sons
Except fëanor was much more violent about fulfilling his oath
Gonna be honest, you should do long form videos. I could sit all day and listen to you talk about LoTR lore, all day. Very few people have the gift of a voice for descriptions and telling stories. Well done as always, good sir.
I AGREE! I've been watching these vids all weekend.
Spot on, Spot on.🔥🔥💯
Just watch playlists
I vote yes 🙌
My personal headcannon is that the Arkenstone was placed in the lonely mountain as a gift from Aule. It was an imitation of the simaril and a test for them to see how well they can form it.
My theory is that both the Arkenstone and silima contain mithril cations in their crystal structures, but in different ways.
Honestly, I'm more for the Arkenstone not being a Silmaril. The original gem's stories are just so influential and the endings to those stories so perfect that I think it's better that the Silmarils remain lost until the end of time.
@Shaylok exactly. In my personal opinion the "magic" spoken of isn't the stuff we see in LOTR but rather a reference to something that may come in the future, hinting that the Silmarils could return during the Dagor Dagorath just to name an example
But were the Silmarils found, magic might once again thrive in the world and the Elves return.
Not only are their pasts, but their future is spoken for as well. As one would expect, being the Fates of Arda lie locked within them, according to Mandos.
@Elder Millennial I would find it more likely then it's simply a cystal that thouched the silmaril deep in the rivers of magma underground and got imbued with a fraction of it's power and glory.
@Elder Millennial That's actually a pretty interesting thought... and very possible too. Even if it isn't a 'fourth prototype' it could be one of the many gems Feanor made before he created the Silmarils.
I like to think that the stone was originally a fragment of either Illuin or Ormal. The two lamps that lit the first iteration of the world. Melkor smashed them and a melting fragment sealed some of the light and was buried in the destruction.
Can explain the dragon sickness too if the stone has a slight taint of Melkor upon it.
@Sam Ashley you’re so right, my bad apparently I’m illiterate lmao
@Volk_Smash That's the Trees you're thinking of. Illuin and Ormal, the Lamps of the Valar, were in the north and south of Middle-earth, not Valinor.
@Volk_Smash not the two trees. The two lamps were created and destroyed before the elves had even arrived. The first version of Arda was ruined and scarred by Melkor when he destroyed the lamps.
The destruction was in valinor tho. That’s an entire ocean away that the dwarves couldn’t cross if they tried. It’s a cool theory but the geography doesn’t make sense
Horse hockey chum.
When Tolkien originally began writing The Hobbit he considered it as separate from the mythology of the Silmarillion. However, he inevitably began copying over ideas (e.g. the elven kingdom in Mirkwood plagued by giant spiders from the northern mountains and with some place called Dorwinion to the southeast... like the First Age elven kingdom of Doriath plagued by giant spiders from the northern mountains and with some place called Dorwinion to the southeast). Thus, when he introduced a precious jewel into the story he used a name for it, 'Arkenstone', which was a modernization of a term, 'eorclanstánas', he had previously used when translating the word "Silmarils" into Old English.
The similarities between the Arkenstone and the Silmarils exist precisely because Tolkien was re-using the concept in a story which was originally intended to be separate from his 'Middle-earth' tales. Did the Arkenstone then 'become' a Silmaril when The Hobbit was incorporated into the larger mythology? Presumably not, because of the issue raised in the video... the Silmarils were specifically fated to be lost until the end of Arda.
I think Tolkien imagined the stone as a proof of dwarves determination to dig jewels... so much they found the heart of a mountain, the ultimate jewel that no other race would ever find.
By that token, isn't it comparable to say that he imagined the ring of power as a cool magic ring that let you turn invisible, but that plausibly had even more fanciful and incredible secrets behind it?
Both of these examples are debuted in The Hobbit, at that, Tolkien's very first work, and one that started as a literal child's bedtime story. So, as the ring was fleshed out into a more meaningful plot device in the context of the world as it developed, couldn't he have carried the concept of the arkenstone on as well when it came time to invent the Silmarils?
Ungoliant consumes lesser gems before morgoth refuses her the silmarils. After the first age we know she buries herself somewhere deep in middle earth until she, in her uttermost famine, devours herself.
Its possible the arkenstone is one of those lesser gems, brought to middle earth in the bowels of ungoliant, then left under the earth for the dwarves to find long after her passing
@Fábio Garrudo Dwarves do war over spider poop, lol.
Bullshit pal. pure and simple. You are looking into it too much. The Arkenstone was found in the lonely mountain long after all the other Dwarven houses were established, and was only developed after the dragons chased them out of the Grey mountains.
@Broadbull, Enabler of Uncounted Combos I agree this is a plausible theory, but anything that Ungoliant ate was destroyed entirely, imo. At the Absolute, very least, there is no possible way it could shine with its own inner light.
@exorphitus The same way Gondolin's Glamdring and Sting ended in Trollshaws
it could be any old Noldor gem created in the early experiments that led up to the creation of the Silmarils and carried in the first age
Something you've missed is something doesn't have to _be_ a Silmaril to contain the _light_ of a Silmaril -- as Galadriel's phial proves. I think the curse of avarice attached to the Silmarils because of the dire oaths of Feanor and his sons would have an especially strong effect on dwarves because we know that the Rings of Power had that effect on them, something not even Sauron had expected. Galadriel's phial had an especially potent effect on Shelob as a daughter of Ungoliant who devoured the light of the Trees. It stands to reason that the Arkenstone, if it contained the light of a Silmaril as the Silmarils contained the light of the Trees, would carry a similar kind of transferred effect.
I always thought the Arkenstone contains the silmaril. Kind of like an amber encasing a fossil. Thus mortals were able to handle it. And since no one knows it is the silmaril it is technically still lost until end of time.
Then it just proves that you have, along with ost on here, that you have an overactive imagination. just enjoy Tolkien and don't try and understand things that aren't there pal.
@too big Well the ring managed to get carried about.
@Ethan Quirk For sure, lava currents beneath the earth's crust could easily have played a role.
So often the takeaway seems to be, "well it was cast into a pit of lava, so after that it couldn't have been anywhere else".
Nevermind that being carried elsewhere in the magma sea beneath the rocky crust, for that magma to then cool into rock itself, is actually the de facto method for anything to wind up in a given place beneath the earth's surface to begin with. And that includes the arkenstone.
While we can't take for granted that all of Middle Earth's tectonic makeup would be identical to our Earth's, mountain ranges, volcanoes, and chasms of lava sure suggest it's pretty close, at least.
@too big the one option i can think of is that maybe, back when it was cast into the casm, that casm was the still vulcanically active, lonley mountain.
Maybe, at that time, it was the only fiery casm to cast the silmaril into.
The "protection might be the spirit of its bearer, or the silmaril itsself creating some kind of shell. Activly or through interaction of magic and earth.
Its explainable absolutely.
But I agree, its not likely.
My personal theory exactly
"The Lonely Mountain would have needed to be a volcano"
Looking at it geologically, it most likely is! There really aren't any other mechanisms for a singular mountain to form other than a volcanic hotspot. This doesn't however explain how Maedhros' silmaril could travel under two different mountain ranges to get there, or the lack of burning those with evil in their heart. (I'm going to go off on a limb and say the "silmarils burn mortals" is not 100% accurate, not just because of Beren handling one, but the dwarves who set it in the Nauglamir must have been handling it also.)
@Bleddyn Wolf Arda is a fair bit older than people think. In the 30s and 40s tolkien had a Valian year (Years of the Lamps and the Years of the Trees) as equivalent to 9.5 solar years. In the 50s he seemed to change it to 144 solar years for each Valian year. If you include the Valian years as being 9.5 years and the 7045 years of the 1st to 3rd age you get 56'305 solar years. If you use the latter 144 years to a Valian year its 727'045 years. Still youngish for a lot of geological processes I know, but it's worth noting the idea that Arda is just several thousand years old is wrong.
@DanielJohnJacob Completely agree with you, that was the meaning of my last sentence. I am also a specialist on geodynamics and trying to imagine vertical movements without the mantle seems impossible.
Since everything were created instead of being formed by natural processes, the only thing feasible would be to describe the landscape transformation over time (erosion etc.) since water and rocks look (mostly) the same (no mithril on Earth!).
Even though looking at thousands of years isn't such a long time.
I have two non-volcanic freestanding mountains in my own works, the Isolated Crest and Shogun Mountain. Both were raised by the magic of Genbu, the High King of the North. Shogun Mountain is solid rock, save for a large inner chamber because it's the workshop of Yamata no Orochi, the Shogun of all venomous snakes, because Genbu pulled straight from the bedrock to form it.
Though the Isolated Crest is a technically a volcano but not your usual one. It's what I call a "hydro-volcano". It's the source of a river and I even delved into the science behind how it would work. The raising of the Crest turned that part of the plains that formed Suzaku's South into a forested area.
@Justin Callahan Perhaps so, but The Atlas of Middle-Earth took care of explaining it all rather well (including the effects of godly interventions).
Tolkien's world building was obviously not conceived with a geological perspective. He made it to fit the story he wanted to tell.
While the Arkenstone glowed with its own light, I've never gotten the feeling it shined as brightly as a close star. As mentioned in the video on The Sons of Fëanor who hunted the Simarils, even though they'd not heard of one being set in the sky, they immediately realized from the ground that it must be a silmaril. That's a lot more light than the Arkenstone apparently produced, giving me another reason to believe the Arkenstone was not a silmaril, much as I love the idea of one of them being rediscovered.
Perhaps a compromise? Feanor presumably didn't create the Silmarils out of nothing; only Eru has that power. The Silmarils would have started as raw, uncut gemstones that Feanor worked into the marvelous creations that they ended up being. Maybe the Arkenstone is the same type of raw gemstone that the Silmarils were made from?
@Timothy Wertin made them from nothing, though?
I don’t think so. Feanor clearly made the gems and the gems held the light of the two trees.
The Arkenstone could have been a lesser early work of Feanor or another elven smith. Or, as someone said, a gift from Aule to the dwarves, or any number of things. Tolkien had a habit of not explaining everything. Middle Earth is old and not everything has been remembered.
Agreed, but the arkenstone did not contain the light of the trees.
Personally I like to believe that this was a gift from Aulë to his children. I don't know when did he make it and put it in the mountain, but I believe it must be him.
Nice, very nice. Never heard this before. You got your own video to make now! Lol.
No, I think it would have gone like that:
Manwe: Elves are better than dwarves
Aule: No!
Manwe: Dwarves are greedy!
Aule: Ummm... Elves just committed three kinslayings over gems...
Manwe: True, that was a mistake, but dwarves would have done even worse things over gems!
Aule: Bet?
Manwe: Ok. Make a gem similar to the sillmarills
Aule: Mmmm , you know , those elves surely had a lot of fun (tragedy) with those Silmarils , i bet my dwarves could use something like that
Manwe: Dude no
Tulkas: Double dare you bro
>>>>>>> Fastforward 10K yrs
So glad I have found this channel. The information is really easy to digest and I’m learning and remembering quite a lot. Many thanks
It's also hard to believe that none of the Wise would have recognized a Silmaril for what it is. Still, the Arkenstone's origins are mysterious. What is it about a "heart of a mountain" that can produce its own light? It must have been imbued with such light by a powerful figure. If not Fëanor, then who? And when? Perhaps the Vala Aulë created it and placed it there when he created the mountain? After all, he also created the dwarves in secret. Maybe this was another of his secret creations? Could there be other such stones in the roots of other mountains? And perhaps it was fate that his children, the dwarves, would discover it.
@Benjin Or Worse, Morgoth did it. He tried making some shiny thing, and it still isn't as pretty as Feanor's glowing bling.
You fools are reading way too much into this, and are making suppositions on most of Tolkien's works. Don't you understand that Tolkien's works are to be read and enjoyed, not ripped apart and over-analysed!
@James Hedin The Silmarils were not a secret. Before Feanor began to begrudge the sight of them to others, he use to wear them around. I highly doubt that Gandalf had never seen them. A better argument would be that in their Istari form those maiar didn't remember as much of their life in Valinor, like Gandalf says when he comes back he had relearned much that he had forgotten. You should have went with that smart guy. I wasn't saying that Gandalf was there with Feanor at the moment Feanor created the Silmarils, but Gandalf would have seen Feanor wear them on the high occasions that he did.
@Micah Wendell valinor is a big place. Lots of people are in the USA, but very few see an executive order signed by the president
Have you thought about voicing over an audiobook? You make a great storyteller, and your impressions of characters are always great!
DO IT! start with the hobbit :D
Love this theory, I personally love this theory as well because, like you said, another artifact from the 1st age is linked to the 2nd and 3rd age, it's kind of sad that the Arcenstone isn't a Silmaril.
Warhammer 40K lore nerd here; feeling displaced by the way GW has been gutting the lore of late. Always loved LotR and the beautiful world it's set in. Coming back to it more and more now to remind myself of what good lore-building actually looks like. You have a great channel here, and I love every minute of it. Subbed :)
Awesome video as always! The Arkenstone is one of my favorite objects in Middle Earth. As for other mysteries you could make a video on, maybe the fate of Maglor? I always found it interesting that Tolkien left his fate a mystery.
Ooo - that's an intriguing topic! I'll definitely cover that when I do a video on Maglor!
I like the idea of the arkenstone being a lesser gem just to give an extra layer of awe to what a true silmaril would have been.
I think you've missed the obvious and very important follow up question: Then what IS the Arkenstone? It is definitely not just a regular gem.
It is a gigantic zircon encasing an inclusion of radium and phosfur.
I think it was a lesser version, a gem inspired by the silmarils or perhaps a prototype.
The Arkenstone is energized Uranium 335. That is why it glows, and drives thoss desiring it mad. Perhaps I am mad. Perhaps the mystery itself is enough.
The Arkenstone is a "McGuffin Stone".
@Széplaki Csongor Of coruse the elves don't understand the word magic.
I think there is also another argument against the theory: Thranduil, having lived in Doriath, would have recognized it. Right?
Or Gandalf who is one of the Maia would have been around in Valinor when Feanor created them.
@IceFireGaming Thranduil's father, Oropher, was a noble of Doriath, as he had a substantial household that he took with him when he traveled over the Blue Mountains. As Thranduil brought with him the Sindarin culture, to the point that his halls were modeled on Menegroth, it stands to reason he was an adult during the Fall of Doriath.
Further, it's explicitly stated that he 'did not love Dwarves, and thought [Thorin] an enemy', which would logically follow if he lived through the death of Thingol and what followed after.
He would likely have seen the Silmaril when Dior wore it.
Not if it was encased in another gem.
@IceFireGaming Fair, but I am not sure. I couldn't find anything about Thranduils childhood in the books. He and his father were from Doriath, and his father and other Sindar elves travelled to Mirkwood to adopt a simpler life with the green eleves, away from the Noldor they didn't like. However, Tolkien states that Thranduil shaped his mansion in Thingol's Menegroth fashion. I ask, how could he knew what Menegroth looked like if he hadn't lived there or at least visited numerous times? Let's assume he was a child when Thingol was assassinated. His grandson Dior ruled for quite some time before inheriting the silmaril from Lúthien, and much like Thingol he could not resist displaying the Silmaril for everyone to see (and got killed for that). I believe there were many opportunities for Thranduil to, at least, take a glimpse at it (and let's not consider other possibilities, starting when the Sindar fleed Menegroth taking Diors daughter and the silmaril until Earendil's trip). And from Tolkiens descriptions about how people reacted to the silmarils, I believe those "glimpses" would have been memorable. Or at least strong enough to never be forgotten.
And also thranduil at this time was a elven child and not someone of high standings
A solution: During one of the many periods when the Silmarils were under threat of theft, a gem of great resounding brilliance was placed near a gathering of the stones, and in time, began to reflect their light in the merest fraction, but even that was astounding to most. Like a copy of Mona Lisa made by Leonardo's best student, or a ceremonial duplicate of Excalibur crafted by Merlin as a prize to a Knights' Contest. Once it had absorbed what brilliance it could, it was left as a decoy, and at least one thief fell for it. Nabbing what would become the Arkenstone, they either met their end when their employer realized the truth or cast it away in embarrassment and shame near enough to the lands of the Dwarves that it would settle in and eventually be found. Perhaps the nameless things in the Earth saw it, tried to grab it but were repulsed, pushing it along its way till it was unearthed. So it was the Arkenstone was not one of the fabled Silmarils, but was blessed all the same by their reflected light and its unwitting service in waylaying thieves from them.
Great video. I love the idea of the Arkenstone being one of the Silmarils. More so, I thought it might "contain" a Silmaril. Through underground rivers and lava flows, it passed through the earth's core. Intense heat and pressure encasing it in diamond like crystal. That explains how it could be shaped and held by mortals. Also goes with what Tolkien said about them remaining lost since it was not actually found.
Have you ever done, or would you consider doing, a video that goes over Gandalf’s names among the various races and why he’s called different names? Olórin, Mithrandir, Incánus, and Tharkûn?
Love this channel. You do awesome work!
I like the idea that the indestructible Silmaril cast into the fiery chasm became encapuslated by a mineral shell and retreated from the fire to nestle in the crust elsewhere, which happens to be the heart of Erebor. The prophetic "discovered at the end of time when Feanor returns from the Halls of Mandos" can be an epic moment when Feanor does the unthinkable and shatters the Arkenstone, revealing the Silmarlil at its core. May not be author's intent, but its a good story anyway. :D
What if Círdan had given Narya, the Ring of Fire, to Saruman instead of Gandalf? Would that have prevented Saruman's fall?
No, it would have quickened it.
I think it would have fed into his ego, perhaps making his fall worse or even hastening it. He was always jealous of Gandalf, so I don't think the ring would've changed that.
Curunír loved power above all else, if anything it would've compromised the Elves more in the war against Sauron. The elves never trusted him as much as Mithrandir.
As stated above its likely Saruman would have used ut to further his knowledge of ring lore. It wiuld have been terrible for the elves had Sauron gained it,or even been able to influence it vicariously through Saruman.
@motortiki Narya would have given Saruman more hope to use the One Ring and more hope to rule Middle Earth!
@Rocky Severino Exactly. One ring to rule them all...
Great video Matt! I have two ideas for future videos if you like the sound of them:
1: What if Bilbo did NOT spare Gollum. That would change Frodo and Sam’s route and possible even the destruction of the Ring.
2: Rank your fave Jackson films extended scenes (I love extended Council of Elrond).
Thanks for your great content !
That's an easy one: Frodo would have become the next Dark Lord.
I like to think that the Arkenstone was an unknown star, impacted the earth and over the ages became the seed that grew the mountain and the source of its wealth.
The best indication that it's not a Silmaril? One of Feanor's sons didn't pop up out of nowhere, murder everyone there and then take it. It's just an exceptional gem.
I personally like to think that the Arkenstone is *another* famous gem from the First Age -- not the Silmaril, but one of the great jewels lost to Morgoth, and carried east.
I know this never happened in the books but I was always curious what would have happened if Thorin saw Bilbo with the One Ring. Would it have taken over the Arkenstone as the thing he desired?
Bilbo showed all the dwarves his ring after their ordeal with the spiders. In LotR there's a mention that everyone in Erebor and Dale know about the ring, which is how Gollum found out how to find Bilbo in the shire (he overheard people discussing it).
To be honest, I find it much harder to resist the Arkenstone than the One Ring.
@Slow Down Sauron only made the One Ring. Calibrimbor and the other elves of Eregion made all the others under instruction from Sauron when he was disguising himself as Annatar. The One Ring woiuld have likely corrupted a dwarf, but not given them over to the will of Sauron. Sauron was actually frustrated that the seven did not have the affect of on dwarves of putting them under his power, and that is why he actively worked to recover them.
@Valentin Kambushev yeah ur right. I agree with you but what if the one ring could also makes dwarves "gold mad" like the seven rings of power? Sauron made all the rings anyways, so why not his one true ring too? Dwarves cannot be wraiths but they can get gold sickness which in a way could destroy them.
I don't think one ring can be resisted by anyone, no matter the race for too long. Gimli too, if exposed too long could've fallen. That is why Frodo was chosen. Bcz he and Bilbo had resisted the ring's effects for a long time even with some relapses. None of the others could've done that for so long like that.
How would you know ? 😏
@Slow Down well Dwarves are naturally resistant towards evil magic. The seven rings didn't have the same effect they had on the humans and Gimli, despite being in the presence of the One when it's fully active, never showed any interest in it. And even though it never happened in the book Gimli is the only one to try to destroy the One Ring.
I like to think that the one ring was "asleep", like a bear waking up from a nap in winter/spring. That might be why Thorin and the dwarves weren't affected much. Personally my theory is that everything played a role in botfa. Dragon sickness, one ring etc
Never thought about the fact that the Arkenstone could be a Silmaril. A very interesting theory, but as you stated, it's probaply not a silmaril.
Unless Aule added the light of the trees, then they are not the same, in substance alone, maybe
sept it is wrong theory, the one sits on Erendils forehead, the second was cast in a gorge of the deep earth in the old world that now is flooded by the sea after the last war against Morgoth. and the last was Cast in the sea by maglor. so no it isn't a silmaril
Thank you for recognising the importance of a mystery in a good story. It's like a magic trick, it fascinates you when you don't know how it works. But as soon as the secret is revealed it loses weight. Unless you are a master at continuing the mystery without giving too much away. A.K.A Tolkien.
My personal theory is that the Arkenstone was a Silmaril in early drafts, but as Tolkien thought about the consequences of it, he changed it to his own thing. I think it's at least inspired by the Silmarils.
Except it would have to be the other way around man.. the arkenstone came first
Great Video! :) As for other mysteries: I've always wondered who the dead king at the shut gate in Dunharrow is, whose fingers are clawed into the door. As far as I remember, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas ride past him, and that's the only mention of him.
I've always wondered whether it was a previous King of Gondor, who lost his way, or perhaps someone who thought he was related to Isildur, but was not.
@51MONSTER2 it’s in the appendixes somewhere I think
@theslugboiii Where did you get that information?
If I remember correctly it was the son of a king of Rohan
Good video. I'm with your theory on the Arkenstone. Mainly, as The Hobbit was written first as a children's story and the tales of Middle Earth were built and expanded on it, Tolkein would have retroactively created a more obvious connection between any earlier appearance of a gem (ie. Beren's jewel from Morgoth's crown) to a contemporary jewel found in the Lonely Mountain. So no, it's not a Silmaril, but was magical.
John Rateliff's _History of the Hobbit_ discusses this from the viewpoint of the history of how Tolkien's ideas developed (pp. 603-609 in the first edition; I haven't seen the second). The upshot seems to be that the Arkenstone was for a while a sloppy borrowing from the Silmarillion world into what was then the separate world of The Hobbit, but when The Lord of the Rings forced The Hobbit and the Silmarillion into the same overarching history, the Arkenstone could no longer be an actual Silmaril but only something with partial similarities to them.
One of the details of this history of Tolkien's ideas is that when the medieval English mariner AElfwine (who got to Tol Eressea via the Straight Road) translated the Annals of Valinor into Old English, he explained "Similarils" as "Eorclanstanas" (in History of Middle-earth vol. 4, p. 282 in hardback or 335 in mass-market paperback).
@Jeff MacDonald They also bear similarity in that unlike the One Ring, the Silmarils and the Arkenstone are true examples of a MacGuffin: that is to say, the only truly important property they bear is that everybody wants them.
That's basically it. The Hobbit was originally a tale told to his children not intended to be part of, but drawing on a lot of the ideas he used in the stories of the First Age - which he'd long been writing by that point.
The Arkenstone is based on his ideas of the Silmarils and plays a similar role in the story. As Thranduil and his underground halls and feud with the dwarves are based on Thingol and Menegroth and his betrayal by the dwarves who made the Nauglamír. When he started the LotR and brought the Hobbit fully into the world of Middle-Earth those parallels remained but became a bit more awkward.
This was allways an amazing theory for me, 'cause I loved to explain all the threatenings and wars in lotr with the disturbed peace of the three silmaril, such as all the horror started with the great wars of the 1th age with morgoth taking them. But I know this is very far from reality, I just loved the idea...
Nonetheless I guess I'm glad that the arkenstone is its own cosmic and misterious thing such as Tom Bombadil isn't Illuvatar, just because I like it when things can stay for their own and aren't kind of fanservice. Luckily Tolkien had a talent to create allways new things with a new and interesting mystery in it ;)
Great video btw :) :)
Maybe each home of the Dwarves had something special hidden combined with some equally powerful misfortune? Mithril+Balrog for Moria and The Arkenstone + Smaug for the Lonely Mountain. Maybe the other places had equally special or powerful hidden objects that just weren't found!
I think the Arkenstone was like a way of showing how beautiful jewels can lead to strife and disagreements between groups of people that leads to conflict. I mean, the whole conflict between Feanor, the Noldor, and Morgoth was due to these beautiful Silmarils. The greed to posses them can also be shown through Thorin's greed to possess the Arkenstone because it represented his right to rule. Both of these beautiful jewels represented different things, but they also started bloody conflicts. There is a reason why Thorin's dying words were him telling Bilbo how much better the world would be if people didn't care about power and riches. Thorin learned his lesson at the cost of his life. I think this affected Bilbo so much that maybe that's why he was able to resist the ring so much, give it to Frodo, and pass this perspective to Frodo as well.
Not to mention that Galadriel and Cirdan are two characters (the first two that comes to my mind) that literally saw the actual silmarils, and they would recognize immediately if such a special gem just appears out of nowhere after thousands of years...
You could cover Saruman's ring, the one that he made himself. What were its powers, and what became of it. Also, what of the rumor of giant tree people that Sam was talking about early in the story and why wasnt it ever told to Treebeard? Also, you could make the case for middle earth actually having existed in our timeline.
Maybe it could be an early trial run of the Silmaril’s created by Fëanor. He probably experimented around tried and failed/half failed (quality not up to the standard he wanted) in the creation process of the perfect Silmiril’s several times before perfecting them. I’m sure crafting the Silmaril was a learning process, not something he just immediately was able to perfect. Maybe the Arkenstone was one of few or many intitial models, imperfect (but still wondrous) version or trial run for part of the actual Silmaril’s crafting process/creation? All great craftsman have abundant experience and learn more the more they make, the Arkenstone is possible a learning step in his process? And remember, not just the Silmaril’s, but others of Fëanor’s vast treasures and creations were also stole by Morgoth when he slain Finwe and stole from Fëanor’s vault. Then eventually it ended up in the dwarves possession after Morgoth loses it somehow (after all he was continuously fighting different groups and managed to lose the Silmaril’s). Therefore it possesses a lot of the amazing qualities like a Silmaril but just isn’t quite as wonderful and unbreakable/pure because it was the final form/version.
My working theory is that the Arkenstone is one of the gems put in the world by Aulë. Maybe he put 7 jewels in some 7 big mountains of 7 clans of the dwarves, but Arkenstone seems to be special. So, my best guess is that it's unique, and he put that in there to serve a greater purpose in uniting the dwarves in times of need. The Lonely Mountain stands out from all other mountains, because it feels artificial. Mountains aren't naturally lonely, they are grouped in mountain ranges. So the Lonely Mountain feels to me like being a protective crust for the Arkenstone, and Aulë knew only dwarves would eventually find it.
I have wondered this for years. I think Tolkien probably took inspiration form the silmarills he had already created. Maybe at one point he even thought of them as the same.
I think the Arkenstone was a gem worthy of becoming a Silmaril. Perhaps Feanor simply imbued three priceless gems with magic light in a fashion that he never disclosed. If so, the Akenstone would have been a worthy candidate.
I think it’s funny that Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends but Tolkien hated that C.S. Lewis didn’t always have reasons for why things or characters were the way there are in Narnia but Tolkien knew all of this and had all this lore behind everything. Part of what makes this so funny to me is that because of this Tolkien almost ended their friendship.
The Arkenstone was clearly the unknown 7th Infinity Stone. I mean, what better way to hide one of the Infinity Stones than to put it in a completely different storyline? Brilliant!
Fantastic video as always. You do such a fantastic job at explaining the facts of Middle Earth’s history, and personally I’d love to hear more of your personal opinions! Maybe rankings of your favorite characters or stories from the legendarium, etc.
I've always wondered about that stone. I would also LOVE a breakdown of Goldberry!!
The entwife.
When you look at the stories that have been inspired by Tolkein's work, the fact that so many different fantasy worlds in literature and pop culture are inspired by Tolkein just shows how impactful his books really are. For instance, Warhammer fantasy, Game of Thrones, and The Elder Scrolls all include similar stories to that of Tolkein with their own spin on it. For instance, there is something similar in the Elder Scrolls series where their version of Dwarves (essentially elves which preside inside mountain halls) find inside the red mountain the heart of Lorkan. A gem which is described in the same way as the Arkenstone from the Hobbit. However, this gem is the heart of a God that was cast into the mortal realm by the other gods. In that story the Red Mountain was (at the time of the dwarves) an active volcano.
I would love to hear you speculate about the idea that Sting is in fact the knife of Beren, Angrist, reforged by Elves to give it the power to glow when orcs are nearby.
Wow! I never thaught about that however NOTR maybe the though it is not a Silmaril because it is indestructible it is possible that the Silmaril of Maedhros came to the lonely mountain in the reshaping of the world after the destruction of Numenor. Thank you so much and keep up your amazing work!
Gandalf was a Maiar who lived with the Valar once so he probably saw the Silmarils, if the arkenstone was indeed a Silmaril he would have known. Also Thranduil lived with the king of Doriath who had the silmaril from Beren, so he would also know what the stone looks like . The Arkenstone could be one of the great gems that the Noldor brought with them to middle-earth. Or, a better theory, it could be a stone made by Aulë to the first kings of the dwarves...since they lived from the beginning in the far mountains.. and in the mountain it was found.
I considered the theory myself, long ago. What clenched the issue for me is that the Silmarils radiate their own light, the light from the ancient trees in valinor, instead of reflecting that from the outside -- even though at the end the Hobbit says that the Arkenstone will light up when enemies are near.
I'd love for you to cover the theory on Earnil being wounded by a morgul blade and turning into a lesser-wraith in the form of Gothmog during the battle of the Pelennor, who was the Lieutenant of Minas Morgul. This theory is very popular among players of LOTRO and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it!
@Hailey ah I see. Thanks! :)
@Paul Mutzel Tolkien estate was involved in the game, but the devs can’t go against established canon. They do take creative liberties on expanding the lore. It takes the form as things such as Morgul blades turning people into lesser wraiths more often in these works, and Morgul sorcery being a “religion” practiced by followers of Sauron to gain powers and many more.
@Hailey ah I see. Thanks for the reply :) the game is not considered canon though right? Or rather how much involvement is there from the Tolkiens in terms of these story parts?
@Paul Mutzel Sorry for the late reply, but in short, the in game storyline features this theory, as a corrupted Earnur is one of the main villains.
can you tell me what happens in LOTRO that people think that way?
I don't think the Arkenstone was supposed by Tolkien to be one of the Silmarils. However, I'd like to think that it's one of the other gems created by Fëanor (after all, he made a lot of them), which ended up in Middle Earth perhaps inadvertently carried and missed by Ungoliant, perhaps somewhere in the creases of her body, and it dropped in the deep caves of the mountain when she was dwelling there.
More likely, though, Tolkien just thought of it as being some random gem, completely unrelated to the events in Valinor.
Some other theories that I've seen for the Arkenstone:
- A shard of the Two Lamps;
- A test version of what would eventually be a Silmaril;
- Someone/Dwarves trying to copy one, not actually being "found" in the case of dwarves trying to manufacture one;
- Silima, the crystaline material Feanor used to make the Silmarils
And others more. I personally have my own and think all of them have their own merit. It's fun to imagine connections and origins for things on this vast, deep and rich world!
Should the Arkenstone have happened to be a long lost Silmaril, the elves would definitely make claim on it. Remember that most of the elves in Middle Earth are Ñoldorin and they would very much see a refound Silmaril as the greatest heirloom of their people, and for all elves in general considering it would be the last remaining chance for someone to witness the spendour of the Two Trees (not counting Galadriels hair here because it is little in resemblence compared to a Silmaril).
I'd love to see a video about all the great cities of middle earth through the ages. Thank you!
Is it possible that the Silmarils were made out of materials such as the Arkenstone? We know that Feanor crafted the Silmarils, but do we know how he did so? Judging by how Feanor once asked Galadrial for her hair, I think it is possible that someone like Feanor with a dark heart would need to take something already with light and to transform it into one of the Silmarils.
Not only that, but how do we know that the Arkenstone was the only stone of it's kind? What's to say that there aren't more gems like the Arkenstone out there? I think that Feanor took three gems just like the Arkenstone and turned them into the Silmarils. But those are just my thoughts...
don't forget that in the end the Silmarils became the Silmarils because they caught the light of the two trees. Also if I remember correctly afterwards the Silmaril did not take up/reflect other light but emitted the light of the two trees from them and as far as we know even the white tree of Gondor though a descendent of one of the two trees does not have the property of the light emitting flowers/fruits. The Arkenstone however is described to reflect the light more like a diamond I would assume. So no real light from within but rather reflecting light shining on it and probably breaking it. Also Feanor wasn't evil at the point where he crafted the Silmaril (however he wasn't a particularily good person either I would say). Also I am not sure that gems that appeared in the holy land can also be found on the Middle Earth continent.
How about this theory - the arkenstone is a larger jewel, that contains the intact indestructible silmaril inside it. That explains why it can be handled and worked on by the dwarves. Also maybe for what tolkien said, maybe at the end of the world, the arkenstone will be destroyed, revealing the silmaril inside it.
I dont know if i fully buy this theory but it does kinda make sense.
@Fredrik Dunge the text doesn't say as far as i can remember, and even then, the body would just burn and melt, seriously look up what happens when a body hits lava, its not like the movies at all
@Bleddyn Wolf Unless his body is wrapped around the thing.
@Fredrik Dunge thats not how bodies work. bodies are far less dense than rocks, so the simaril would would have sunken far faster than the light elven body, which would have floated on the surface and burned up
@Bleddyn Wolf We don't know what effect soemthing like a silmaril would have on what's around it. Maybe it's the elf, the carbon of his body turned to diamond by the magic and heat and pressure.
@Dom Lee-Dade sorry... I meant that I should have. You were first.
That stone is the raw materials from which the silmarils were fashioned; coming from the heavens and being primordial, so it has a touch of the initial music, including the discord of Morgoth
So glad I’m not the only person who considered this.
My idea was that ignorance protected those who found the Arkenstone; that Feanor’s curse would not be brought to life because nobody understood what they had, that nobody was actually pursuing the power of the Simarils but instead came to it by chance without knowing.
Thank you for your videos and thanks for subtitles, so it´s easier for me to watch and read it because of the language barrier. Thanks. Love from Czech Republic for everyone, who admires Tolkien´s wonderfull world and is watching videos that may educate him.
Here's something to think about. Why were NO OTHER hearts of mountains ever dug up? So this gem is special somehow. Especially if this is the only mountain with a heart
You discuss what the Arkenstone isn't at great length, but you left out any opinion about what it might be. I feel like a part 2 to this video is something that should be considered. I am very interested in hearing your theories on it.
Could you do a video on how gollum lived for so long without the one ring, while bilbo aged after he gave the ring to frodo
In the books, he doesn't start aging like that until the Ring is destroyed
I believe Bilbo didn't start drastically aging until the ring was destroyed. He did age some in Rivendale but was not as frail as on his way to the west. Remember he spends at least a year in Rivendale before the Council of Elrond.
The Arkenstone, as I always thought of it, was a dwarven attempt at a Silmaril. The great craftsmen of the dwarves imbued the gem with its own light, but since that light was not as pure as the light of the trees, it fell short. But still super cursed.
Could you cover what it must of been like for Gandalf to not remember the way to go in Moria? How crazy is that for a wizard? are their memories really that good or what?
You are absolutely right-the fact that a person can sit down and wonder at all the 'if's and "maybe's left behind by these great works, as they do with our own history, _does_ make the world of Tolkien seem very, _very_ real. And that's amazing!
One silver lining of Amazon's Rings of Prime, which heretofore shall be known as "The Atrocity," is that my interest in ACTUAL Tolkien Lore is renewed, and I've found your channel! Thank you!
My theory is simple: Many were enamored of the works of Feanor. He had apprentices, and certainly, others would have attempted to make their own. Just as the rings were copied, so were the Silmarils. The Arkenstone is one of those copies or even possibly a prototype, and near enough that it too was affected by Feanor's oath. When crafted into its final form by the dwarves, they fell under its sway. Quite possibly placed by Aule as a lesson and warning to his children. In this case they found a pretty rock. But elsewhere they were not so lucky. Imagine if the Arkenstone had been embedded in Smaug and not still in the horde.
Cool to see a video that combines lore from both The Hobbit and the early ages of Arda .
I thoroughly LOVE the artwork and theory. It's easy to compare to actual stuff on our planet, while at the same time allows the mind to go to a different world entirely and honestly forget your still seemingly here on earth. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
The world was reshaped after the fall of Numenor from a flat plane to a sphere. Therefore, the Silmaril could easily have made its way under the Lonely Mountain. Also, there are actually VERY few people we actually see handle the Arkenstone: Bilbo, Bard, and maybe the Elf king, all of which could be classed with Beren.
I think that if Tolkien had intended even to hint that the Arkenstone was a Silmaril there would be more in The Hobbit to support it, especially since there are other references to the First Age in The Hobbit that are supportable (blades from Gondolin, Elrond, the seemingly eternally held grudges of Elves of all types and Dwarves of all types). That being said, your videos are terrific and this one was fun to watch, partly because I was so surprised by the premise. Another thing to consider: the Silmarils and the One Ring are items into which the creator put a piece of themself, so that when broken or destroyed, it would also destroy the maker. In terms of speculating on the nature of the Arkenstone, could any of the Naugrim who shaped it have put a piece of their self into it? This would have given it an attribute that made it more Silmaril like. (Silmarilish?) (Yavanna also puts a piece of herself into the Two Trees, but being immortal, she can't bind her immortality to them. It is simply power she spent and could no longer use.)
If it was a Silmaril, Gandalf would have recognize it for sure. Not because of the gem itself, but for the light of the trees of Valinor was unmistakable. He would have take it back to Manwë.
I love this channel and everything you’ve covered; if I could put my request in I was wondering if you would please make a video about the chapters on time travel in The Lost Road? Maybe cover theories based on other works of Tolkien about where the story would’ve gone if he had finished it? I hope you consider it, thank you and keep up the great work 😊
maybe it was like some unknown "silmaril" of aulë, created at the founding of arda, and hidden as a present for his children? it certainly has a lot of parallels to a silmaril, including a propensity to cause those associated with it to swear terrible oaths to their doom.
@Carl Sixsmith that's why i put quotes around it.
Aulë doesn’t have the skill to make a Silmaril. No one but Feänor did.
I like to imagine that the dwarves fashioned the Arkenstone in the likeness of the Silmaril, since they wanted the Silmaril Thingol had in his possession, but could never have it.
My theory is that it was just a massive gem that went from dragon hoard to dragon hoards (for lack of better vocab). That’s why it became such an obsessive object.
Edit: it is well known that dragons were attacking dwarfs in all sorts of side moments that aren’t even written by Tolkien
A quick overview of the events of the Battle of Bywater would be amazing
We should always keep in mind that, while Tolkien described his world in a lot of depth, he also changed it a lot. Not only that but also he sometimes purposely obfuscated some details, repeated themes, and used similar story points to mimic actual legend and folklore. I always thought this last point was the case with the Silmarils and the Arkenstone, a legendary object that appears in a story, which seems to share traits with another even older object. One can imagine the Arkenstone might have been just a very beautiful jewel, but over time descrptions added flavour, inspired by the legend of the Silmarils, and that's the story that "got to our hands".
Perhaps when the Silmaril that was cast into the fiery pit over the 5000 years had a gem form around the Silmaril, and it is now at the heart of the Arkenstone with the gem protecting it as a case. That would explain why the dwarves could work the gem, why mortals could handle the gem only touching its outer case. The only way to know if the Arkenstone held a Silmaril would be to destroy the Arkenstone, and like Tolkien said that probably wouldn't happen until the very end of the world...
The Sillmaril could have changed, being sunk in lava for thousands of years, or magically with sacrifice and sorrow of Maedhros.
And no orc or evil person touched the Arken Stone, so it still could be.
Great content as usual. It would be interesting to hear a history of the realm of Dorwinion because other then knowing they produce wine and they are located close to the sea of Rhun we don't know a lot about them. But given their proximity to the Easterlings it would be interesting to speculate if they were on the side of the Men of the West or supported Sauron.
My head canon is that the gem the dwarves worked the arkenstone into was actually a crystal case that would allow others to hold it easily without burning.
Given the desire and greed it could instill, and it’s radiance, it’s not hard to think there might be a connection with the silmarils. It’s a fun theory for sure, especially as it adds another connection between the first and third age. You bring up good points, unless it’s possible the silmaril itself was encased in gemstone
I also don't think that the Arkenstone is a Silmaril, even though I do find the idea of it compelling. But I love the thought of a connection between the three Silmarils and the Arkenstone with the four respective elements. One Silmaril in the Sky, one in the depths of the Water. I know that the one Maedhros cast into the volcano is said to dwell in the Earth forever, but I think you could also see it as being lost in the deep Fires of the earth, making Earth the last element that remains.
And then the Arkenstone is found as a gem deeply hidden in the stone of a mountain, centuries later. Idk if this makes any sense, but it seems almost like it balances things out. Three Silmarils lost in three elements of the world, another magical and somewhat ill-fated gem found in the last remaining element later. I don't actually think that there's a connection there, it just seems to far-fetched to make sense for the overarching story, but I love the somehow poetic idea of it.
Especially since the Arkenstone doesn't really have an "origin-story", unlike the Silmarils it is more like the heart/soul of the mountain itself. But being a naturally formed part of the world implies that the Valar made it, more specifically Aule, if I'm not mistaken, and - knowing the Valar - that means that there was a definite purpose behind it. And then, Aule was also the one who taught Feanor himself how to forge gems, indirectly enabling the creation of the Silmarils, which is another faint connection that is fun to explore.
The theory of the Arkenstone being a Silmaril falls apart the moment you actually move into the lore and look past its appearance.
Also I think Gandalf would've recognized one of the Silmarils, being an ancient Maiar and most likely quite familiar with their history. Thranduil, while not as old as Gandalf, would most likely have recognized it as well, being an elf born when the Silmarils were already created, but well known amongst the elves.
The complexity of lotr lore is amazing and I love it. To learn about this is amazing
I wonder, since the Arkenstone is called "the Heart of the Mountain," if there could be others like it inside other mountains?
Silmarils were made from a clear mineral filled with the glowing sap of the Trees. It is said that Feanor used some very durable gem, which was also luminescent, to house the sap. All this together made them indestructible. Maybe the Arkenstone is made from the original mineral but without the glowing tree sap?