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Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality | Helen Joyce | EP 287

  • Жарияланды 2023 ж. 31 Нау.

Пікірлер • 7 508

  • FormulaCloth
    FormulaCloth 3 ай бұрын +758

    I’m here because I was born a woman, and I tried to transition to male for about a decade until I decided to take testosterone medically to transition. I realized that this was a mistake, this was the most confusing time of my life. It took me so long to realize what I was feeling was actually severe self loathing. To this day I am unsure as to why I felt the need to be a male. Possibly to erase the girl I was because I was under the assumption that I would never be good enough, never be pretty enough. So much so that I would have rather been a male then be an ugly woman. I wish to understand my condition and heal from my experience.

    • Susan Fisher
      Susan Fisher Күн бұрын

      So sorry you went through this💔

    • Al Vincente
      Al Vincente 6 күн бұрын

      @Flecks so true

    • Flecks
      Flecks 6 күн бұрын +1

      @Al Vincente I’ll listen in. I suspect the majority are not in favor of this, but I suspect the majority of trans lead a life like most of us - keep your head down and get through another day. Unfortunately it’s the activists that cameras gravitate toward, so the activists of any group are what people see of the group when they don’t know someone in their life.

    • Al Vincente
      Al Vincente 7 күн бұрын

      @Filipe Cardozo so many of these stories are negative I know and the truth is that there are very few of us authentic transsexuals such as myself, I am happy with my transition and it has been a wish for me since I was five yet I never knew it was even possible- and if it wasn’t for insurance companies that now assist in the expenses, I could have never afforded the entire costs for all that I have done- I’m finally living my truth and that isn’t to say I don’t have normal problems like everyone else but my appearance isn’t one of them now, and certainly not to sound conceded but I was an attracted female, but I still wasn’t happy and never wanted to be female and transitioning allowed me to come as close to being male as I will possibly get but I’ll take that for now-

  • Marzy
    Marzy 2 ай бұрын +213

    I transitioned when I was an adult from female to male and now back to female. I was raised in an abusive misogynistic household without a mother. I suffered a lot of abuse for being a woman after that from abusive relationships. After that I faced a stillbirth. After a few years I went to a doctor to help with extreme depression I was going through. I knew something was wrong but was so distraught I couldn't see what. They told me I had gender dysphoria and put me on testosterone without me ever seeing a therapist. I just wanted to talk to someone. They wrote down trans man on my paperwork and I never said that. I said I didn't feel like either, shit, I didn't even feel human. I realized after taking it for a while that I was surrounded by people blindly supporting it or actively pushing it on me. I changed my name, I lost my family over this. I was at the 2nd lowest point of my life. I stopped taking it. It took a while for me to feel normal. I found that I did have a hormonal imbalance, but it was progesterone, a regular hormone in my female body. I took that and all of my issues went away, mental and physical. It is sick what they did. I still don't feel like I can tell people how wrong it is without facing backlash. I'm happy to have come back to myself and see the truth. I hope more people wake up.

    • marie Lina Nudo
      marie Lina Nudo 6 сағат бұрын

      so sorry you were violated in this way

    • Joan Driver
      Joan Driver 9 сағат бұрын

      I'm so sorry all this sad treatment happened to you, you sound a beautiful person. Keep going positive, bless you

    • Cozzie
      Cozzie Күн бұрын

      ​@highroller 1207Stfu..

    • Cozzie
      Cozzie Күн бұрын

      I hope people SPEAK up like you did you could do more for young kids than anyone who hasn't experienced it
      It's scare tactics and bullying that stops people from talking but if a large number of people got past that the rest would follow i'm sure.
      We need to stop being scared of talking about it! 👍🏻

    • Susan Fisher
      Susan Fisher Күн бұрын

      I am so sorry this happened to you. I would hold those physicians that pushed you thru this accountable 💔 I'm happy to hear you are feeling better!

  • Elizabeth
    Elizabeth Ай бұрын +94

    “The children are the sacrificial victims of the ideology.” So well put!

    • Al Vincente
      Al Vincente Күн бұрын +1

      It’s a trans contagion just like being a lesbian was once upon a time

    • Joseph Moore
      Joseph Moore 7 күн бұрын +1

      Exactly it's human sacrifice

    • TF F
      TF F 9 күн бұрын

      THIS really Hits HARD TRUTH!

  • Susan C Baxter
    Susan C Baxter 3 ай бұрын +480

    As a 67 year old mom, I can tell you that devaluing motherhood arrived with a vengeance with womens lib. As a stay at home mom ( done deliberately and with great effort by my husband), I was treated by women of my generation as less than. It was quire painful.

    • Martin D A
      Martin D A 12 сағат бұрын +1

      Unfortunately, you listened to your peers. In part, they had the right idea, it was a fine thing to understand it was their choice to make of themselves what they wished, for the first time in history. Where they were wrong was by judging your choices, as they were absolutely as valid as theirs. Simply wrong and a bit cruel. It is a shame you were never told the the truth of it all by someone until it was too late to be of help.
      Well, I'll let you into a secret. It happens to (almost) everyone. There are a very small handful of people who are enlightened enough and equipped with the wisdom to see the world for how it is. The majority of those women who questioned your choices arrived at 60 wishing they had known a whole bunch of things that hindsight offered a glimpse of. We were very limited in those days- information and advice were non existent. It was a tough time in many ways for women (and men). We have different problems of a different type today. Nobody listens to advice and today we have lots of it.
      I have a feeling you were a wonderful mum and had a very decent husband by the sound of it.

    • king kong
      king kong 2 күн бұрын

      My mother was never taught by her mother how to just say "no".
      It was never OK for her to say "no"
      I have never heard my mother tell me "no"
      I had to learn how to say no safely myself.
      The "Free Love" movement and the original woman's liberation movement of the 1970's, that insisted men and women were equal AND THE SAME, did a lot of damage.
      I'm glad we realize now that men & women are different in many many ways.
      The result of my mom never being able to utter the word "no" without fear or anxiety
      was that she is so deeply manipulative, angry and bitter.
      She is 83 and just lashes out at me without thinking.
      There is no communication, negotiation, compromise or conversation possible with her.
      There never was.
      She is a very angry person and also very guilt ridden.
      She want's to say "no" so badly.
      But it's almost like a an intense phobia and fear of not being loved if she says "no".

    • Nelly Moo
      Nelly Moo 2 күн бұрын

      We were told we could have it all. It's just not true. The effort to commit to others ideals is exhausting.

    • Anne Wyckoff
      Anne Wyckoff 3 күн бұрын +1

      Congratulations on a worthy life

  • Horus
    Horus 2 ай бұрын +75

    This interview is UNBELIEVABLE. You guys are ON point with this conversation! Everyone needs to listen to this!

    • Brad
      Brad 29 күн бұрын +4

      @Elli Snowu think, based on this single comment of simple agreement, that the commenter is an ideologue? So, are u saying that someone who disagrees with trans ideology is an ideologue?

    • Elli Snow
      Elli Snow Ай бұрын

      i wish i understood how ideologues like you think

  • N/A
    N/A 3 ай бұрын +438

    What happened to just being a “tomboy”? Girls can be girly girls or tomboys… but they’re all still girls. I found this to be the best way to guide kids around the “gender stereotypes”, albeit, slightly more difficult for a boy since “girly-boy” isn’t always taken as positively lol

    • Paula de Carle
      Paula de Carle 5 күн бұрын

      Not girly boy. It should be understood that men and boys can be artistic, sensitive, poetic, emotionally intelligent males. They are not girls. They are marvellous, talented, kind and nurturing strong males.

    • H.Themin
      H.Themin 14 күн бұрын +1

      @skath woelya yeah, i mean, most girls are very proud to be a tomboy...that just means they're active type of girls...

    • H.Themin
      H.Themin 14 күн бұрын

      totally agree...
      I mean, it's okay, there's a feminim girls and tomboy girls...as well as boy, there's a masculin boy and feminim boys...
      a tomboy girl can be with a more masculin boy who could handle her active behaviour (lucky my now-girlfriend is), or she could be with a quite feminim boy...
      as well as a feminim boy could be with a tomboy girl or with a feminim girl which will make him at least brave enough to take responsibility in life...
      this never was a problem, until science claim to be able to "play God" on gender using technology...
      trans, in my opinion, are just a coward ways to runaway from life responsibility...
      no trans, no income...
      "If you want people to buy your medicine, create a poison, poison them...No one will buy your medicine, when there's nobody's sick"
      so, in my opinion, they might be making this gender confusions is so that the "products" they're selling, sold...regardless of what would kids become...

  • Ana Maria
    Ana Maria 6 ай бұрын +2396

    As a mother of six I have to say there is a lot of love behind the word "NO".

    • vivavictoria
      vivavictoria 5 күн бұрын +1

      Good for you! I come from a family of 10 kids, all of the same parents. When we heard "NO" that was the end of the discussion. If we dared to play one parent against the other, all hell broke loose! LOL

    • limogerry
      limogerry 5 күн бұрын

      @Voodoo Vixen Brilliance deserves to be rewarded. You don't.

    • Voodoo Vixen
      Voodoo Vixen 5 күн бұрын

      @limogerry Good lesson to give your child that a no is nothing worth

    • Char Farner
      Char Farner 7 күн бұрын

      @6enhoj6 , I agree. We can except suggested compromises by our friends, spouse or contemporaries, but not our bosses and/or our authority figures.
      No, Mr. police officer I do not want to get out of my car. Can I just put my arm out of the car? Would that be OK?

    • babysis6.0
      babysis6.0 12 күн бұрын

      @Audrey Martin how can that be? I'd really like to know, please don't tell me the courts can force parents to hand a child of theirs over to be butchered and mangled

  • Tracie Schneider
    Tracie Schneider 3 ай бұрын +356

    This is hands down one of my favorite episodes ever. What a great conversation. So comprehensive and explanatory. Well done!

    • John Waaland
      John Waaland Ай бұрын

      @Caro C Hi. And yet though, she has a very wide opinion on what miraculous means.........if people can claim that Jesus raised from the dead OR walked on water💦💦all those centuries ago then what's the problem with Jesus clearing up all this confusion over miracles and come to earth NOW and show us how it's REALLY done........ being that it would be so easy to verify someone walking on water to be real.......OR NOT‼️
      Instead of thinking that everything in life is a 'miracle' you probably know as well as I that if Jesus were to come to earth 🌎 right now and walk on water it would be so easy to verify such a thing that you and I and probably EVERYONE in the world would believe Jesus to be God of the universe and capable of ANYTHING else‼️😬

    • Caro C
      Caro C 2 ай бұрын +1

      The sacred is that which takes our breath away. That which is hard to comprehend. Like how deep the ocean is, or how we can be one planet in a galaxy with hundreds of planets in a universe of hundreds of galaxies. How a hummingbird flaps its wings 60-90 times per second. The sacred is that which is awe inspiring and we cannot explain.

  • Sally Wilkinson
    Sally Wilkinson 2 ай бұрын +32

    Thank you for your continued work to define what is happening in the world.
    I have a 20 year old daughter who suffers with learning difficulties, autism and gender dysphoria. When she expressed her wish to “transition”, three years ago (it was triggered by the shock of lockdown), I held off seeking a referral so we could focus on dealing with her anxiety instead (while supporting her wish to dress in boys clothes and focus on male interests etc). She slipped between wanting to be a boy and a girl many times in a two year period, but each time that her mental health was in a better place, she reverted back to female clothing and interests. Interestingly, she expressed that she wanted to be a boy because “they are cooler, stronger, and life is easier for them.” (She also felt very vulnerable because of some predatory men she’d encountered on social media and in real life). She’d watched lots of KZclip videos too about people who’d taken hormones and it had fixed all of their dissatisfaction with themselves. She felt it was an easy fix to make her more comfortable with herself, because none of the risks, or negative outcomes, were ever discussed.
    Three years on, after much therapy, and a focus on what could be making her unhappy and trying to resolve that, my daughter is content being female and accepts she is a “tomboy”. She understands that wanting to transition is something that occurs when her mental health is low, but that only lasts, at most, a week or two. She’s learned to handle her own emotions, and with a new found focus on spirituality, has found a healthy belief system that has helped her keep her mental health balanced for the last 12 months . She is a much brighter, happier and healthier person now than she has been since she went into adolescence. The world, with all its conflicting messages on social media and television, is a difficult place for young people to navigate. We as parents have to try and guide and and support them through that - even if on occasion it requires a little tough love.
    (Incidentally, I also sought an autism referral at the time of her initially wanting to transition as I’d read research that suggested the majority of FtM trans had autistic traits. My daughter was sensitive, had a lot of issues maintaining friendships, as well as problems with communication. Autism was never diagnosed because she masked and mimicked. Seeing this research paper pushed me to get in touch with the GP about an ASD referral, and 18 months later my daughter had a diagnosis, which has really helped with her understanding of herself. Maybe this is something practitioners should be looking at rather than systematically putting young people on hormones.)

    • Isabel Wosina
      Isabel Wosina 18 күн бұрын +2

      So happy and hopeful that you found answers for your daughter. We are going on 2.5 years with this gender ideology destroying my now 12 year old’s childhood. Lockdown and too much internet access was the catalyst for us.

  • Total Annihilation Theory
    Total Annihilation Theory 2 ай бұрын +476

    I am a 71year old lady who remembers well the gay clubs of my youth. Back then they were drag queens. They were relegated to the same category as topless clubs, peep shows, adult bookstores, and movies. Because it is sexually motivated . This is a new public form of self-gratification.

    • MiauZi
      MiauZi 24 күн бұрын

      There are reasons why homosexuality was forbidden in nearly all high-cultures.

    • John Waaland
      John Waaland Ай бұрын

      @Greg Kemp Hi. Sure, that's why you replied again‼️
      If you believe Jesus walked on water💦💦you know you're a fanatic‼️
      If you believe Jesus fed 5000 with 1plate of food 🍝 you know you're a fanatic‼️
      If you believe Jesus raised from the dead 😨 you know you're a fanatic‼️
      If you believe in a literal burning hell🔥🚒 you know you're a fanatic‼️
      That's fine you're free to disengage me......... this will be here for anyone else to engage with‼️
      Have a good life‼️😬

  • GMTE Girl
    GMTE Girl Ай бұрын +19

    The love Jordan displayed at 1:07:37 brought tears to my eyes too. Bravo! This was an amazing discussion.

  • Hey Lloh
    Hey Lloh 3 ай бұрын +139

    I find it’s actually quite interesting that you mentioned menstruation. I also have the idea, and it’s quite accurate, that a man or male can never fully understand the experiences of a woman or female, or vice versa. I also find it intrinsically interesting that when a person transitions, the phrasing is still transgender as a prefix.
    If something were naturally occurring, it wouldn’t need the prefix to identify that this individual is now something or someone that they were not before.
    And again, I will cite the pen analogy. If you have a pen that writes in blue and has a blue casing, that pen is identified as blue. If you then move that inkwell or insert to a pen casing that is black, and insist that the pen is now black yet writes in blue, then you have truly changed nothing about the pen’s function and purpose. So you have only affected the external without changing the internal.

    • reactor508
      reactor508 12 күн бұрын

      I've been saying this too. Prefix trans. Hence it's the former gender that's the starting gender at birth opposite from what they are presenting now.
      A straight man would not want a trans woman and same with women wanting a trans man.
      I see this ideology as one of bullies themselves.
      And pushing on children is abuse like misery loves company. So many are unhappy still and the suicide and drug addiction rate are high.
      I pity these people. And the ones who push the whole thing are bullies. And the medical field racks up the bucks. Same with pharmaceutical companies. Like drug dealers they claim them for life.
      They need sympathy and good therapy. Not hate

    • Blonde Quijote
      Blonde Quijote Ай бұрын +1

      @Matt Good Wizard is smarter than Borges and probably knows more than you do. That was written in the book of Matt and the book of Cyber Bohemians found in The Holy Text.

    • Matt
      Matt Ай бұрын

      The left hand doesn't know what the right hand does. This was written in the book of Moses and the book of Life.

    • Scott Liberati
      Scott Liberati Ай бұрын

      Super analogy. Reality: One can not become a WOMan minus a womb. Nor do so retaining a Y chromosome. Some public trans folk are really mixed-up. Jenner had bottom surgery last year, (removing gonads and penis) but still has urges for women. Is he now lesbian? Jazz (boy to girl) dates both genders. This is maladjustment, a mental health issue. But, verbally attacking those going through this (most don't) is cold. It is in favor, and pushed by the population control groups as it is a back door to sterility.

    • Blonde Quijote
      Blonde Quijote 2 ай бұрын

      @52marli We live in crazy world where this sounds normal. I grew up in the early to mid 00s mostly and still remember the whole “ur a girl haha” thing being used so much by coaches and my dad on us as boys to get us to do the sports ball better. I mostly got good at trash talk and fighting, but dealing with all that “toxic masculinity” is better than wondering if I “should be a girl”.

  • Improbably Vile
    Improbably Vile 6 ай бұрын +2928

    "When you say that men can become women, by saying they're women, you're making a statement about language, not a statement about reality" - Great summation.

    • Freebird
      Freebird 17 сағат бұрын

      Yes, I don't want to play a supporting role in o.p.'s fantasy life.

    • Freebird
      Freebird 17 сағат бұрын

      ​@maskseverywhere good point. That's what I wanted to say.

    • Al Vincente
      Al Vincente Күн бұрын +1

      And they are not becoming women they’re becoming trans-women, big difference

  • aleksandarpavkov
    aleksandarpavkov 2 ай бұрын +22

    What a lovely and honest conversation. I feel like I just had a very educational dinner with these two educated people.

  • Candice Erorita
    Candice Erorita 3 ай бұрын +41

    JBP admitting that he talks too much, thus making Helen chuckle was such a cute moment. 😄😁
    It IS quite hard to get a word in edgewise with him, but he more than makes up for it by just being super brilliant. 💜

    • blackswan1983
      blackswan1983 Ай бұрын +2

      Everything he says is packed with interesting info, so he's forgiven for being verbose.

    • Alpha 6 Games
      Alpha 6 Games 2 ай бұрын +2

      He goes through large segments with people where he just listens as well. It’s hard to contain an entire point sometimes. Especially when it’s something you know a lot about

    • WindTurbineSyndrome
      WindTurbineSyndrome 2 ай бұрын +1

      He does what a lot of smart people do jumps into conversation as she has spoken two sentences. But it makes me want to read the book. You can tell how much he feels about this issue.

  • lillith77
    lillith77 3 ай бұрын +206

    Never in my life have I ever felt so dumb yet so intrigued at the same time. I just got her book and I'm excited to start reading it

    • Caro C
      Caro C Ай бұрын

      @Shadow Band Never heard of that term, interesting. Thank you.

    • Shadow Band
      Shadow Band 2 ай бұрын +2

      @Caro C yes, there is no such thing as an Aethiest. The guest is a perfect example, as she ditched catholicism for scientism. You can certainly be an agnostic zeteticist, however. "I don't know but I seek the truth."

    • Caro C
      Caro C 2 ай бұрын +2

      Well and because you can’t prove there isn’t a God. So they have to have faith that God in fact doesn’t exist.

    • Caro C
      Caro C 2 ай бұрын +1

      Sounds like you have a lot of faith in the idea that God doesn’t exist.

    • BFVsnypEz
      BFVsnypEz 2 ай бұрын +1

      @jerry long god is the basis of truth and reality. God also defines good and evil.

  • Roxi Rants
    Roxi Rants 2 ай бұрын +13

    Society devalues older women wholely. It sucks and it hurts knowing you eventually age out of desire on a physical level and on an intellectual level. We grow old and crazy. We've bred a full generation with no respect for their elders. Let alone respect for someone that simply disagrees with you.
    I bawled when I turned 30 and if this past year has been any reflection of how people treat you get versus older people whether personally or professionally it's that I'm already too old.

    • So Fly
      So Fly 17 күн бұрын +2

      You must believe better

  • picknpull8888
    picknpull8888 2 ай бұрын +11

    The compassion that Jordan has for young people is inspiring.

  • Summer Sanchez
    Summer Sanchez 6 ай бұрын +1273

    As a girl growing up in the 80’s I was a tomboy, I like boys, but felt extremely self conscious about my body. If my parents and social media told me that was because I was transgender, I would have believed them… I feel so sad for kids these days! I was just a tomboy who felt self conscious about my breast, but grew up and am a proud women with a husband(we both like that I have breasts). This trans issue is such a sad state of society😢

    • Scathach Muirisc
      Scathach Muirisc 4 күн бұрын

      ​@Dolce Avversità... Are you speaking from experience? I don't think anyone particularly suggested that parents were 'doing cartwheels' or insisting that their tomboy daughters have gender reassignment. It is a complicated issue and is not really rectifiable fully if you change your mind after the surgery, ( as some people do.) Is it not better to err on the side of caution.

    • Jim Ball
      Jim Ball 16 күн бұрын

      @leslie landberg that’s probably the most likely scenario these days.

    • David Mays
      David Mays 17 күн бұрын

      @leslie landberg
      Well, it is the internet so I don't blame you 🤷
      Not like it matters anyway.

    • leslie landberg
      leslie landberg 17 күн бұрын

      ​@David Mays not buying that you're a teen girl for some reason.

  • Mary Beth
    Mary Beth 2 ай бұрын +18

    I have so much respect for a man who is unafraid to show his emotion for what he believes in.

  • Rhys Jones
    Rhys Jones Ай бұрын +11

    I'm a new father, and the "fun" parent. I find it very interesting, but also kind of sweet that whenever I tell my 16mo "No" he adopts a "Yessir" attitude, but whenever his mother tells him "No" he gets really sad, as though he doesn't like the nurturing one to be setting boundaries. The discussion in this video reminded me and made me smile.

    • Tracy AF
      Tracy AF Ай бұрын +1

      I’m glad to know it’s not just my house where that happens. I hate seeing my little one tear up when I tell her no😢 Daddy can do it with very little reaction 😊

  • Gingerblaze
    Gingerblaze 2 ай бұрын +12

    This is one of your best and MOST important interviews of our current times. It really requires a broad audience as the consequences of not engaging about this topic in a critical way, are devestating. Both for individuals, and families but to the trajectory for all humanity.

  • Eduarda Hernandez
    Eduarda Hernandez  2 ай бұрын +9

    what a sober and poignant discussion. Incredible to be in the room with both incredible minds. Thank you so much.

  • Debra G
    Debra G 2 ай бұрын +11

    I am beyond words after watching this video. I appreciate this conversation so much because you touch on every viewpoint so logically that anyone with half a brain or a small percentage of Common Sense can see the truth. I would wish that everyone would watch this. Thank you both so much!

  • Kelley Hoolihan
    Kelley Hoolihan 5 ай бұрын +718

    I am a retired teacher and I’ve been watching the topics you have addressed in this video. I guess I am amazed at how educational institutions are being used to indoctrinate young people to question their gender, their emotional state, and their nuclear family relationships. When did this begin? I rarely shared my political, personal, religious views in front of my class. My job was to teach my subject to my students. It’s crazy that educators are trying to step in and take the place of a student’s family structure.

    • Isabel Wosina
      Isabel Wosina 18 күн бұрын

      @Erik Duvald It’s much bigger and more insidious than that.

    • The One Too See
      The One Too See Ай бұрын +1

      @rach9466 i went off on a rant there. In answer to your question: the materials for the school cericulum are available for a small price online. You have to play the game to get the grades. School/college/university are passable as long as you know the cericulum. My teaching friend spends her own money for the extra packages, and she has an amazing pass percentage. Apparently, that is not normal. All of her colleagues only use what they get given. The private institutions have it all.

    • The One Too See
      The One Too See Ай бұрын +1

      @rach9466 use school as a free daycare. My kids are where they are because of my wife's ability to teach more in two hours than they learn in a week at school. I regrettably spend less than 3 hours a day with them, and less than an hour each on education. Despite this, they are 3 years above their grade. I'm embarrassed by how little we managed to put into their education. But it seems to be far more than most parents managed. We are debating with the idea of private education, but we can only afford it if i work more hours. Should i work more and hope for a better education? Or work less and teach them myself? Before anyone answers, think about what it was like when your mum/dad tried to teach you how to drive. I don't want to be that person. Help!

    • Rach
      Rach Ай бұрын

      It’s in the policies of schools - allowing boys into girls bathrooms etc. So it’s not always or merely a teacher’s personal politics. What about the classwork content that is mandated by the government? I’m feeling more like I will HAVE to homeschool just to keep a basic level of sanity.. and I’m in a ‘conservative’ state now, but it’s in their public schools too.

    • The One Too See
      The One Too See 2 ай бұрын

      Can't believe nobody called me out for stealing this straight from Wikipedia.

  • karhart
    karhart 2 ай бұрын +11

    I love how intense JP gets when he engages with a fellow intellectual. He sounds angry at first listen, but he's just so dang fulfilled when he speaks with someone who can "go there" in conversation.

  • Rob Davies
    Rob Davies 2 ай бұрын +6

    So nice to be a fly on the wall to hear two bright articulate people have a good conversation - feels like mental floss - coming away a little clearer, a little fresher. Well done both, keep up the good work. I used to work for the economist group, glad to hear they are keeping standards firm

  • Laiszie Pseuzan
    Laiszie Pseuzan 3 ай бұрын +18

    Thank you to Helen for giving me an insight into womanhood that I had never considered. I learnt something today.

  • View💋
    View💋 2 ай бұрын +6

    Thank you both for this🙏🏽. Please let’s all take care of our Children 💔🫶🏽. Breaks my heart to see the kids being pulled into this BS💔

  • Keen Trasborg
    Keen Trasborg 3 ай бұрын +84

    "Period! The end!"
    Gods, I've missed those words uttered from a public person. More of that please! And also, excellent dialogue here. Super informative and interesting!

    • Trinity M
      Trinity M Ай бұрын

      @Gameplay SH also discourse is conversation. It would be dumb to never discuss any of the things you listed because then we can’t learn about them in general or have solutions but we know y’all like ignorance. Anyway, are you saying the 2spirit people whose land you’re occupying against their will are not worth discourse? I would love to hear the white solution to what to do with these beloved Indigenous individuals. Y’all have always done so well with Natives

    • Trinity M
      Trinity M Ай бұрын

      @Gameplay SH this isn’t any of those things so try again

    • Devon Seamoor
      Devon Seamoor 2 ай бұрын +1

      Well, make sure you yourself will be frank, and utter these words, okay? Only than you'll have grasped their value, their impact.
      As adults we don't need holding hands with mom or dad anymore. Don't wait for permission from others, when it's about living what you hold as truthful within yourself.
      Only than you're immune for the lies, and the deception, presented to us in numerous ways.
      Humanity is on the threshold of growing up, letting go of an imagined mom and dad, priest or vicar, influencer or hypnotist.

    • stunnedmullet blah
      stunnedmullet blah 2 ай бұрын +1

      @highroller 1207 oh you're pulling the same trick in each thread . Are you bored ,child ?

  • BurtleTurtle 001
    BurtleTurtle 001 5 ай бұрын +251

    Thank you Helen Joyce for saying children are worth more than money. It choked me up to finally hear someone with prestige say it. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear some of the off-handed ways people discuss children as an expense or a burden.

    • Luchia Young
      Luchia Young 3 ай бұрын +2

      @BurtleTurtle 001 I agree with you. Those who dont agree just dont understand

    • Andrea Brava
      Andrea Brava 3 ай бұрын +3

      Kids are worth more than money, but they cost a lot of money. This is what bothers me about socialy weak people producing countless of children they can't afford.

    • Anti Bull
      Anti Bull 3 ай бұрын +9

      Children are a burden. They have to be.
      The issue is that weak people view burdens as bad.
      Raising children is a burden. But its one that must be taken seriously and will bring more joy than anything else in one’s life.

  • MnMcancook
    MnMcancook 10 күн бұрын +1

    Me and my wife have spoken countless times about this HUGE issue we as society are facing currently. It is absolutely shocking how people and even parents are allowing school aged children to decide their "gender". Thank you both for being brave enough to challenge this mentality and issue!! 👏 it is difficult enough to parent without having to add dozens of hot button issues that need to be explained in detail to avoid confusion with my daughter.

  • Katie Stevenson
    Katie Stevenson 2 ай бұрын +6

    I’ve listened to dozens of these conversations around various topics of the woke mob wreaking havoc in society and this is the first time I’ve ever heard so many common sense solutions that organizations can employ, right now, to combat the nonsense. This woman has brilliant insight. Her clear cut ideas are a breath of fresh air! I’m taking notes.

  • Spikey
    Spikey 2 ай бұрын +7

    Very much enjoyed this chat, great respect and admiration for Helen Joyce, and JP is growing on me. You both talk common sense, the common sense, that is common, because we all know it. Thank You.

  • Cher Which Witch?
    Cher Which Witch? 2 ай бұрын +7

    I watched my niece go through 4 years of figuring out her sexuality. She told me she was a lesbian when she was 15 and my response was ‘no you not, sweetheart. You’re bi’. She argued that no. She was definitely a lesbian and that I obviously didn’t love her because I didn’t believe her. I told her that, no matter what, I loved her and would always support her. I then told her she should take her time to figure out who she was attracted to, and as long as she was dating someone for the right reasons and not because of peer pressure, then she’d find happiness. She has shared all of her experiences with me in great detail (and still does even now - she’s 25). She suffered from depression, confusion and was bullied by peers and adults alike (her mother and her mothers’ friends chief amongst them) and when she was 19 she told me I was right. That she was bi-sexual. She has had several girlfriends and boyfriends and is now settled and happy with her boyfriend of 5 years. They are also now trying for a child. If we support children with sound advice and no judgement, and make sure they are loved and are allowed to take their time to find what’s right for THEM they will find their correct path for themselves. It horrifies me to think of the additional trauma she’d have suffered if she had been told she wasn’t a girl who was attracted to other girls but that she was a boy and had gender disforia. She would have been easily convinced to take hormones to affect the necessary changes to turn her into a male. She would now be dealing with the trauma of not being able to have children because of the devastating effects of the hormone treatments. If you TRULY care about your children you protect them from making poor choices until they mature enough to understand the consequences of their choices. Just an opinion.

  • Manuela Darazsdi
    Manuela Darazsdi 2 ай бұрын +7

    Wow! 🤯
    This is the best treatise on this subject to date. Her book is on my bucket list because of her rationality.

  • Rebecca Walker
    Rebecca Walker 6 ай бұрын +352

    As a 36 year old woman who chooses to bring up my children instead of having a career it is refreshing to hear someone who values motherhood. I certainly have felt all of my life that I was wrong to not want a career and that by being a SAHM I was not being valued. Thanks Jordan - I love your work!

    • Anna Maria Yoga
      Anna Maria Yoga 9 күн бұрын +1

      @Nick G That's so good for you, happy to hear that. All I wanted to point out is, that there are many different ways of life for women and every way is worth to be supported and respected, with or without a child, with or without a job, with or without hobbies and so on.

    • Nick G
      Nick G 11 күн бұрын

      @Anna Maria Yoga When I started raising a little girl it changed everything. I'd sacrifice just about anything for her. It's absolutely priceless and gave me purpose. My conscience started approving of who I am when I lived for her instead of myself so much.
      I bet your mom felt that raising you guys was the best thing she ever did. She seems to have cared a great deal, judging by what you said and it seems like she did a good job, judging by your politeness.

    • Anna Maria Yoga
      Anna Maria Yoga 12 күн бұрын

      Maybe it’s because I am from another country (Austria), but actually this statement was extremely stereotype for me. When women choose motherhood as their purpose this is amazing, but there are other (not necessarily a career) ways of life for women too. I for my part grew up with a stay at home mother and it scares me off of getting a child, because I felt like she was kind of a slave for our family, while my father did, what he loved and went on adventures. Today I feel like, maybe a child would be nice, but the idea of being just one thing, a mother, is really scary for me. Please don’t take this the wrong way, every women should choose the life she wants to live, but when I hear stuff like this, it makes me feel like I want to be the other sex, although I identify clearly as female. 🙈

    • Juney Shu
      Juney Shu 2 ай бұрын

      Yay! Think of the word homemaker. Someone with the ability to make a home out of a blank place. Honorable. Motherhood. Honorable.

  • Foxiepaws ACAnderson
    Foxiepaws ACAnderson 2 ай бұрын +5

    I suffer from anxiety and have done to a greater or lesser extent all my life. When I am not under such a load of anxiety, I have found that I naturally try to make others feel better and more comfortable and when I am doing this it subdues my own anxiety. Hearing you speak about doing this makes me think I should put more conscious effort into worrying about how others feel. I did this as a child too, I was recently diagnosed as having an autism spectrum disorder and I think that the anxiety and what I do with other people to help them feel more comfortable are aspects of the way I have tried to minic NT people to fit in better. I also found boys easier to get on with to such an extent that I used to wonder if I should have been born male. Thank goodness I was a child in the 60s or my habit of reading everything may have ended with me thinking I had gender dysphoria too. I am very much a woman who has kids and grandkids. That would have been a catastrophic loss. That is so evil telling kids that people misgendering them is because people hate them, I had gay friends all my life, two of whom transitioned in the 70s and 80s after nearly decades of counselling. None of them would give anyone a hard time for getting pronouns wrong as it's just something people didn't put much though into. I think all these trans activists are deeply evil people who are so personally unhappy they have to drag these poor kids to their disgusting level.

  • Julie Sheard
    Julie Sheard Ай бұрын +5

    I am so glad that there are brave, intelligent people who can voice these thoughts, which I share, so lucidly. Bless you both! Thankyou xx xx

  • andrew macpherson
    andrew macpherson 3 ай бұрын +100

    Jordan Peterson is the most truthful person out there at the moment, he's so inspirational for me and the guy needs more recognition for what he's trying to tell us.

    • Patriot
      Patriot 3 ай бұрын +3

      We , the people should promote and spread Jordan , proud of being a Canadian.

    • Patriot
      Patriot 3 ай бұрын +2

      @James Deese he does not lose his gut , common sense. But unfortunately many people have lost them all.

    • James Deese
      James Deese 3 ай бұрын

      @Reprogramming Mind how can you hear the truth and not know it?

    • Reprogramming Mind
      Reprogramming Mind 3 ай бұрын +1

      how did you hear all the persons out there in that moment?

  • Goat boy
    Goat boy 2 ай бұрын +4

    What a brilliant discussion. Jordans tearing up at the thought of one child being one too many shows he really is a beautiful soul.

  • Song Writer63
    Song Writer63 2 ай бұрын +5

    Two of the greatest minds of our time. What a pleasure to listen to them discuss.

  • Wadim Wadimow
    Wadim Wadimow 6 ай бұрын +433

    As a person who is still learning English, I can profit from hearing Mr. Prof. Peterson in two ways. First, you can just sit there and write down almost every sentence he utters. His English ist brilliant. You get smarter by writung down and memorizing the language structures and vocabulary he is using. And second, he is teaching and helping you to master your life.

    • John Waaland
      John Waaland Ай бұрын

      Hi. Maybe, that's IF one can possibly understand the big words and word salads he talks.....like‼️OK, concepts and ideas💡💡 are complex and all that BUT 😨😬
      Jeeezzz, break it down sir into more simple language for the love of pizza 🍕🌮🍕‼️😨😬

    • MyChihuahua
      MyChihuahua 5 ай бұрын +1

      @Frank Clough I have excellent language skills, but I catch myself saying 'basically' and 'literally' more than necessary. I also talk very fast and it seems to be a way to slow myself down enough to find the proper words, or a better way to articulate an idea. It's a type of nervous habit like saying 'um' or 'uh' all the time - but that I have conquered.

    • dermot quinn
      dermot quinn 5 ай бұрын

      haha when it comes to JP we are all still learning English.

    • Georgiana Bodoiu
      Georgiana Bodoiu 5 ай бұрын

      Same here, I always learn new words from him. Last week I learned the word incumbent. 😊

    • Chelsea Poet
      Chelsea Poet 6 ай бұрын

      @Jaśmina Budzińska your comment was written in very good English. You may like to know that your 'in' should be 'at' 😊

  • Alana Imboden
    Alana Imboden 2 ай бұрын +4

    You are respectful people that this world need to warn parents about all this craziness , as a mother of teenagers I really appreciate your work , I hope many parents take the time to watch your videos and be conscious about this reality of this era and protect our children .

  • Break into blossom
    Break into blossom 2 ай бұрын +4

    So helpful to hear so many complex thoughts and feelings I’ve had around this topic ordered and expressed in such a clear and comprehensive way. Thank you so much for such an interesting, informative discussion..

  • L Devon
    L Devon 3 ай бұрын +33

    Two of my favourite academics in conversion. Thank you! One of the, seemingly declining, good things that modern technology has facilitated.

  • Chiclette2021
    Chiclette2021 3 ай бұрын +4

    Every parent want-to-be or new parent should be listening closely to this interview/discussion. Brilliant!

  • Leah Catherine Kocherry
    Leah Catherine Kocherry 22 күн бұрын

    I’m a young woman and I am honoured to have watched this discussion. I find myself having many conversations with my family and friends about the horrific actions of the adults that are harmful to children. I hope to have children someday and I am afraid for them. This fear brings tears to my eyes. When I see how moved Dr Jordan Peterson is by the harm to children, it makes me want to spread his messages to the world.

  • Timothy Roper
    Timothy Roper 6 ай бұрын +209

    History won't judge "gender re-assignment" surgery kindly, and it'll one day rank right up there with lobotomies. Not only does the medical professional not always know what they're doing (despite proclaiming they have science on their side), sometimes they make horrible, horrible mistakes. And this is one of them.

    • Adam Hesse
      Adam Hesse 28 күн бұрын

      I agree 100%.

    • WatchWoman Debra* Jesus is The Way
      WatchWoman Debra* Jesus is The Way 2 ай бұрын

      @JJ Mcnab everyone will stand before the judge. Jesus Christ. Everyone not covered in The Lamb's blood will be thrown into the lake of fire after all their deeds are judged by The Righteous Judge. Please seek Jesus today. We all have sinned. Jesus is The Way The Truth and The Life.
      Matthew 7 : 13- 14
      Romans 3 : 23
      Romans 6 : 23

    • JJ Mcnab
      JJ Mcnab 2 ай бұрын

      Worst part is that not a single person will be punished.

    • mvs
      mvs 2 ай бұрын

      @Lisa Spillman thank you, very thoughtful and excellent post. The only thing is that there are bunch of typos (maybe you were just frustrated) please edit. I want to share your post with other ppl.

  • Karen Lee
    Karen Lee 2 ай бұрын +4

    I so agree with you both! Thank you for tackling this sad, terrible sickness of our time.

  • Pocketchange
    Pocketchange 2 ай бұрын +3

    Jordan, I used to listen to a lot of your soundbites and found that I agree with you on a number of things. I have just recently started listening to these long form discussions, and I just want to say thank you for doing what you do. God bless you and yours. 🙌

  • Mollie Dash
    Mollie Dash 3 ай бұрын +45

    I recently saw a friend I hadn't seen in a while. She mentioned that her two kids were getting ready to enter college. I asked how old her daughters were now, to which she replied "my girls are boys. They don't accept the gender they were assigned at birth." This made me ponder why this notion seems attractive to young people. Why would they want this? One factor might be the overly bland and safe society that's been gaining momentum for over 30 years. Being another gender is "different." It's not any more interesting, but it's different.

    • Mollie Dash
      Mollie Dash Ай бұрын

      @Beddy TheCorgi Yes, you've made some good points. I'd add that you can be average and normal without being mediocre. People are interesting when they are honest. For example, a woman who works at my bank. She's been with the same one since the 80's. On the surface this might seem boring. But if you talk to her, she is so sweet and genuine. She has a lot to say. Or the example you raised about jocks. They can be dull, meatheads. Or they can be nuanced. Or they could be interesting in their own right- because they are who they are. Relying on styles or labels or "identity" is the problem. Substance is what makes us unique, and also passion about what interests us. Or maybe we're not interesting at all- but we don't have to come up with fake identities to try to make ourselves stand out.

    • Beddy TheCorgi
      Beddy TheCorgi Ай бұрын

      We have 3 generations in row who have idealized the interesting and unique individuals and anything mainstream or "normal" "average" as bad.
      I mean the second people thought Glee were the cool kids and jocks were bad this was obvious. To put it mildly we let the nerds run the asylum.
      Kids are desperate to find thier cool uniqueness instead of learning to be happy as an average person and trying to fit in. Fitting in is a good. It gives you a sense of community and a sense of belonging to a group. Fitting in is only bad when the crowd or ideal group member is bad. There is never something wrong with just being a normal average person. That is literally the fate of most people by definition of "average" and normal.
      No one cares now if you are goth, then emo, no one cares if you're 18 dressing like a porno star (remember just showing a bit of tummy was scandalous fir Brittney spears in 1997) so now what else can they do to shock and awe thier parents generation. Otherwise they are average mediocre kids they grasp at anything that makes them "special". Lets face it its harder to actually have a special kid who actually does stand out. (Waking up and going to the ice rink 7 days a week @ 5 am for conpetitive ice skating practice is a good example). The sad thing is the parents themselves are now so narcissistic that they want thier kid to be weird to have soemthing "special" themselves and are too lazy and too self loathing to accept thier kids can be perfectly happy and healthy as average mediocre humans.
      No parent should be celebrating their kid has a mental illness that makes them feel thier own healthy body needs to be rejected but you hear so many parents trying to celebrate thier kid is coming out as trans. That's as stupid as celebrating your kid has been diagnosed with an eating disorder or cancer when you realize the medical intervention that is involved with creating a fake vagina or cutting off your breasts (listen to real trans medical stuff and you'll be disgusted by things like necrotic tissue on nipples turning black, Putting spacers to keep the "wound" aka fake vagina from closing by healing shut etc, the level of urinaryinfections etc.)

    • Sky blue
      Sky blue 2 ай бұрын +2

      I saw an interview with Elliot Page and Seth Myers. Now, one of those two is a man. I just felt really sorry for the other one and the total pickle she seems to have got herself into. I mean, it's fine to want to understand the other, even act as the other professionally, but then to continue it in your personal life? She doesn't know where to stop and no-one is going to tell her, bc political correctness. And when I say I felt sorry for her, I mean bc however she tries, she doesn't have the complete set of tools she would need to actually be a man, and never will. It's sad.

    • Clearly Now
      Clearly Now 2 ай бұрын

      "Overly bland and safe". When? Where!?

  • RawForYou
    RawForYou 2 ай бұрын +5

    In the Netherlands we have a saying: You take the words right out of my mouth! Thank you. I could not agree more with what both of you say!

  • Evan Winer
    Evan Winer 3 ай бұрын +32

    Amazing conversation. Best I've heard on this topic.

  • Paris Favilla
    Paris Favilla 5 ай бұрын +179

    “There is no difference between thinking about yourself and being miserable” - that’s gold. That’s the truth.

    • Rocky Streetz
      Rocky Streetz 3 ай бұрын +3

      So true…❤ but to a narcissist it is not 😂

    • Helen Montenegro
      Helen Montenegro 3 ай бұрын +2

      Es que ese es el problema, que la gente hoy "se mira tanto el ombligo" que pierde el sentido de la vida, el cual es, amarnos. Y aunque seguimos justificando la salida de la mujer al mundo laboral, está acción ha sido catastrófica al momento de formar una familia y hemos dejado a nuestros hijos en brazos de la soledad y la apatía. Cuando reaccionaremos?...

    • Jean S.
      Jean S. 3 ай бұрын

      I disagree. I learned to feel very good thinking about myself

    • Marlin Sillymon
      Marlin Sillymon 3 ай бұрын +4

      That stood out to me also. The one thing I most retained from this amazing discussion

  • Makayla Hollywood
    Makayla Hollywood 2 ай бұрын +2

    Absolutely wonderful and necessary conversation with such thoughtful, intelligent individuals. I'm truly enjoying this. Please continue to have these types of discussions.

  • Tammy
    Tammy 3 ай бұрын +5

    This entire conversation struck deeply at my core , so interesting to hear such intelligent ppl puzzle out this social contagion & takeover of reality , I wish I could download this somehow , will buy both their books for sure , thank you so much

    • James Jarman
      James Jarman 2 ай бұрын

      You can - Jdownloader 2 is the easy way.

  • Bobby UK
    Bobby UK 3 ай бұрын +5

    Great conversation between two intelligent,and conscientious people.

  • Hannah Taylor
    Hannah Taylor 2 ай бұрын +2

    Mind blown!! Thank you so much for this excellent conversation, and standing up for truth! 👏👏👏👏👏

  • Grania Horswell
    Grania Horswell 3 ай бұрын +7

    Such an interesting conversation between two wonderful people.

  • A
    A 6 ай бұрын +1009

    It's reassuring listening to two normal, well-educated and sensible people discussing such matters. Thank God such people still exist and are able to inform others.

    • Francesco Accomando
      Francesco Accomando 4 ай бұрын +1

      You can exchange "normal" with "consensus" if it makes you feel any better.

    • DelNite
      DelNite 5 ай бұрын +1

      @Calista I'll be honest I'm a little confused. I dont think youve worded that correctly, but its also 2 AM here so I could very well be dumb and tired.
      To clarify: are you saying that having and voicing an opinion has a more variable danger than just to someones feelings?/ That stopping people from having opinons is dangerous?/ or are you either misunderstanding my writing, miscommunicating or being sarcastic if its neither of those.

    • Calista
      Calista 5 ай бұрын +1

      @DelNite Agreed, until you said "The only danger is..." basically to their thoughts of themselves.
      It seems there has been HUGE DANGER TO OUR WHOLE SOCIETY! As the extreme damage that has been wrought on us has been destructive to our personal physiology and societal norms, right down to our foundational roots! We are at a crossroads of civilization...

    • infiniLor
      infiniLor 5 ай бұрын +3

      @Dolce Avversità where did anyone say that they "don't exist" ?
      Interfering in children's natural development is the topic, try to keep up

  • charlesfletcher83
    charlesfletcher83 2 ай бұрын +2

    This was easily one of the most insightful and deep discussions on this subject. This is not only one of the most important issues of our time, whichever side of the debate you side with, but also a fascinating thing to delve into, granted you can detach from the gravity of the question and conundrum it creates.

  • Lost in Australia - Dave
    Lost in Australia - Dave Ай бұрын +1

    A very good podcast, it has helped me understand a lot of human behavioral traits with me only being an amateur, 'sitting at the bar', type expert.
    I love to observe the human animal, whilst quietly trying to work out why some people do the things that they do.
    I learn a lot from these Vlogs, please keep them coming, they are good value.

  • nannuky
    nannuky 3 ай бұрын +16

    1:07:30 anyone else started crying at the sound of his trembling voice? he cares so much, it's so moving

    • Trans Antidote
      Trans Antidote 3 ай бұрын +1

      @Downward Dingo info what is a woman?

    • Lara Croft
      Lara Croft 3 ай бұрын +6

      I did. It's so heartbreaking.

    • nannuky
      nannuky 3 ай бұрын +3

      @Downward Dingo info you might want to go see a doctor then

    • Downward Dingo info
      Downward Dingo info 3 ай бұрын

      Now I really feel like puking!

  • Lyn Andrews
    Lyn Andrews Ай бұрын

    Yes, thanks to you both. I witnessed this at my last school in Australia before I retired. I understood what was going on, but I had no terminology or developmental understanding of why it was happening. Now I understand it better. What concerns me, is that like the breast implant trend, and the plastic surgery trend, there will be a gradual phasing out but with plenty of collateral damage, and this time of an even more serious nature.

  • Johan Spennare
    Johan Spennare 3 ай бұрын +6

    This is a realy high quality discussion.
    Its almost like seeing two artists perform a dance.
    amazing talk.

  • Otto L
    Otto L 5 ай бұрын +236

    I absolutely love how verbally fluent she is. It's so awesome to hear truly intelligent women talk. Honey for the ears.

    • jhankri
      jhankri 2 ай бұрын

      @Globetrotter 🌐He made a statement as to how he feels listening to intelligent women. You on the other hand are reinterpreting what he said based on your own biased feelings by adding the "for a change". He did not say for a change and you are not a mind reader. You are reinterpreting which is not necessarily truth.

    • Tylonius Squib
      Tylonius Squib 3 ай бұрын

      Always one white knight

    • Catherine Taft
      Catherine Taft 3 ай бұрын +1

      @Susan Spatz In the sense that he is physically and psychologically incapable of shutting up yes, that's true. In the intellectual sense he's no idiot but the people he talks over are no slouches either and I wish he'd just chill. I much prefer Michael Schermer's Skeptic podcast to Jordan's because Michael knows how to contribute without shouting over his guests.

    • Susan Spatz
      Susan Spatz 3 ай бұрын

      Jordan Peterson can talk circles around her, or anybody for that matter.

  • Shortly Tall
    Shortly Tall 2 ай бұрын +2

    I had to really hold onto the rails through this one, keeping up with two such knowledgeable individuals in a chat like this. Loved it though, so informative. Keep it up, the both of you!

  • Warren Copeland
    Warren Copeland 3 ай бұрын +2

    Thank you for working so hard to create the modern focused talks , diving into the meta conversations and terms of engagement and definition. You are helping me to be a better man and father. Thank you Jordan Peterson !

  • Celebrated Razorworks
    Celebrated Razorworks 2 ай бұрын +2

    🙋‍♂️ Your ability for language is brilliant, Jordan's ablity to complexly weave so many layers of complicated concepts and articulate the summation so fluidly and eloquently.. Never losing track of your own identity nor the multitude of varying viewpoints that may or may not have any pertinence to the topic. Psychological organizational ability, this is a gift.
    P. S.
    BTW have you heard of the term "He's a SIMP. "? Wow. I would be tickled to hear you shred this one apart bit by bit. I wish the best 4 u and urs, eternally grateful for your content.

  • Enliven Wellness
    Enliven Wellness 3 ай бұрын +5

    I literally listen to you every day and it never gets old 🎉

  • ForTheLoveOfLike
    ForTheLoveOfLike 3 ай бұрын +8

    Wonderful banter, loved listening/watching this. Thank you!

  • Eric Feldkamp
    Eric Feldkamp 6 ай бұрын +443

    Hands down the absolute most informative, clear, insightful discussion I've heard on the trans issue. Blown away. Well done, both of you and thank you for your work and the time it took to share it with us. God bless.

    • Cypress Butane
      Cypress Butane 24 күн бұрын

      @Jamie Abshire right on. please don't kill my friends in a genocide, etc.

    • Jamie Abshire
      Jamie Abshire 24 күн бұрын

      ​@Cypress Butane I just want to say thank you for coming into a comment section where people disagree with you to nicely state your opinions and have a genuine discussion.
      I might not 100% share your same opinions, but if we can have real conversations like this then we can all learn to understand and care for one another no matter our differences. Thank you!

    • Mystic Void
      Mystic Void 5 ай бұрын

      @Cypress Butane Your comment about twitter would be true if twitter had actually put that in their report of the incident. They would say that to either reduce pressure from all sides because that seems like a reasonable argument and i wouldnt disagree. The fact that they didnt created more news about the event, which would make twitter out to be intolerant of the intolerant like a publicity stunt of sorts. Accidental, not thought through or calculated we can't find out but altogether, of twitter wanted to they could definitely have said that to avoid criticism.
      I think everyone apart from religious fanatics would be fine with trans people in this comment section if their issues weren't blamed on everyone else outside their group, and then going after everyone else. Also with less of the 'spread awareness ' thing, because if you think you are 'born in the wrong body' then you yourself would know about it. Just knowing that society mostly accepts it would be enough if you actually wanted to transition.
      Secondly you'd have to be a poor judge of character if you think JP would purposely try to fan the flames (of which are few) because he has always been interested in helping people. He also predicted these events years ago, predicted the outcome of Canada and their legislations and has proven he is willing to stand by his principles.
      Also what part of this made you think he was trying to make people hurt trans people. He just stated the problem, who it affects, whats causing it and why thats an issue

    • Cypress Butane
      Cypress Butane 6 ай бұрын

      @adw802 I didn't say he shouldn't be allowed to voice his opinion, but I know the reason he was kicked off twitter was because he called a doctor who is doing their job a criminal which is libel/slander so the company had to remove him. I am not for censorship - and more than that I wish Peterson would debate some trans people who are pro-trans and happy and healthy and loving instead of pushing his anti-trans views to his bubble stoking hatred and trying in my view to make people hurt trans individuals. He has no right to control what adults do if they aren't harming anyone - even if he "believes" they are harming themselves but objectively they are not - not killing themselves... not in their view harming themselves, though they may alter their bodies to increase their personal quality of life, in their mind. None.

    • adw802
      adw802 6 ай бұрын

      @Cypress ButaneHow has voicing one's own opinion become targeting or overstepping? We are talking about a public figure that announced her transition and surgery publicly. So Peterson doesn't believe the removal of healthy and functional body parts should be legal - that isn't a fringe, radical or offensive stance. He isn't standing outside of clinics intimidating patients or barring their entry. You can believe something is wrong, say it out loud and still believe in individual liberty. What you are asking for is censorship of words and viewpoints that you deem insensitive or offensive. I can understand trans slurs or true hate speech but that is not what we are talking about here.

  • Owen McCafferty
    Owen McCafferty 29 күн бұрын +1

    Dear Doctors,
    Thank you! The entire video essay is so appreciated. The short segment of Catholicism was very interesting to me. I am a 70 year old practicing Irish-American Roman Catholic with dual Irish citizenship. I found the entire discussion to be a heroic effort into a long day's journey into honest thought. Please consider making more video essays together. Owen

  • Mary Woolley
    Mary Woolley 20 күн бұрын +3

    I do hope that JK Rowling has watched this, as it explains why she has been treated so badly. This is a fascinating discussion and as a 67 year old woman it has opened my eyes to how I should advise younger female friends, colleagues and family members. Thank you

    • Daily Corvid
      Daily Corvid 18 күн бұрын

      JK Rowling to be fair, has courted the arguments she has landed upon. It was a huge error in judgement to start retroactively making all the characters trans and gay.
      She's baited the biggest load of psychos, over their main psycho thing - this is what she would have expected. And realistically, she's pretty damn good at it too! Lol I couldn't think of a better person to put forward.
      She's qualified - she writes fantasy worlds for a living, they are living in fantasy worlds too. She knows how to create characters with fantastic well detailed identities, and they can't decide what their own identity is or should be. They must hate her because she writes fictions and people love them, but they write their own life as a fiction and people HATE it 100%.
      It's cool though, she's a smart lady and she's taking on a million idiots lol only one winner for me!

  • Marco Vermeij
    Marco Vermeij Ай бұрын

    This is an absolute crown jewel in your series of incredibly stimulating and intellectually enriching conversations. Stamp collection, fantastic, so much insight. Now why doesn't the political world listen to people like Helen Joyce, it's beyond comprehension to me.

  • Pistillate Flower
    Pistillate Flower 2 ай бұрын +4

    I’d love to hear more from Helen.

  • Matthew Hayes
    Matthew Hayes 3 ай бұрын +41

    Appalled at Scotland's inability to debate. This day is very scary. I hope that those we respect can respond effectively. However, if they could have, they are too late.
    My poor daughter is caught up in this detriment to rational free speech (probably because of my unwise life choices) and it's tearing me apart. I just hope it doesn't tear her apart too.

    • Spikey
      Spikey 2 ай бұрын +5

      My choices maybe what's endangered my grand-daughter re this ideology. I think many of parents and grand-parents from the liberal, progressive left, are feeling like this.

  • Forrest Norman
    Forrest Norman 6 ай бұрын +807

    Finally we are moving to rage at this preposterous lunacy. Save our culture. Save out children. Save the great constitution. Thank you JP for your platform and having such a wonderful guest.

  • Polite Q
    Polite Q 2 ай бұрын +6

    "It goes off into stamp collecting levels of precision and difference". I got a laugh out of that one.

  • lgreene1204
    lgreene1204 2 ай бұрын +2

    Wow this was so rational and common sense!! Thank you Helen!!

  • Sigma The Stigma
    Sigma The Stigma 3 ай бұрын +3

    Thank-you for having these conversations that most people ignore today. They don't want to be cancelled or isolated through social media, and so they do not speak up on such matters. Keep walking the narrow path of Christ, and continue to bring about a sense of intelligence and logic. God Bless.

  • Radio Psychic Astrology for Insomniacs & Most Cats

    I’m 47 and I am Americans and I have no idea what spurred the vitriol towards Jordan Peterson among some people in my own demographic and my country south of the Canadian border. I have been watching recent videos and I find him to be incredibly thoughtful and wise and compassionate and really not remotely like the enemy some people seem to be hell bent on spreading false rumors and propaganda on. God bless you both this is a wonderful and true take on what humans are needing to be aware of. You know it’s true that we’re not going to be fourteen years old or even twenty one forever. Thank God for the most part. My grandmothers were useful and relevant to our family and our world until they left the world in their nineties and I think it’s so sad that we women do not have the solidarity across the ages and stages of life. I am not woke and I’m sorry if some feelings get hurt from that but if it’s anything like this self diagnosing trauma embracing TikTok ideology I am perfectly content to remain a fossil in a coma. I just regret not having children myself but this world’s children are our own and I can’t afford to remain completely asleep because I keep thinking about that saying “be the adult you needed when you were a younger person…” and that stirs me out of complacency. Please keep your discourses continuing!

  • Miss Higgi
    Miss Higgi Ай бұрын +1

    What an enlightening conversation. May there be more...

  • Muzammil Siraj
    Muzammil Siraj 6 ай бұрын +720

    Helen Joyce is genius. I was blown away when she said "when you say that men can become women by saying that they are women or vice versa, you are making a statement about a language, not about reality." There, she said it and this is it.

  • Carolann Miller
    Carolann Miller Ай бұрын

    Always enjoy and look forward to listening to Jordan Peterson...whether he is speaking, q&a or w/a guest! Such necessary discussions and he really digs deep into researching! Simply brilliant!

  • BurntBeebs
    BurntBeebs Ай бұрын +1

    Really loving these podcasts, this one especially was powerful

  • Max Fahl
    Max Fahl Ай бұрын

    This is so good. I learned so much from this discussion. Thank you!

  • Leigh B
    Leigh B 2 ай бұрын +1

    Women!!!! Trust your instincts, it’s so important. I was treated like absolute crap by my female friends & colleagues for being a stay at home mom. My own mother got weird towards me & it was so hurtful. I had a great career but I had to trust my gut & do what felt right. I’m so glad I did. Children make you better. Raising them yourself makes you better & it makes them better. I know we all don’t have that choice but if you do, take it. You won’t regret it.

  • Caro C
    Caro C 2 ай бұрын +2

    I have listened to hours of information about the trans movement and even so, I have learned so much from this conversation. As a woman and as a parent this is indispensable to listen to in its entirety.

  • yeshalloween
    yeshalloween 5 ай бұрын +73

    This whole discussion is so full of nuggets wisdom and insight. But mostly I feel very emotional. Emotional about being a woman. About the vulnerability of being a woman, the unique pain, the experiences that are unique to womanhood, the tug of war of emotions that come with motherhood. Of knowing my job is to sacrifice myself and prepare my children to ultimately leave me, but not wanting them to. So painful and exquisite at once is this journey. So tender and trying.
    Women are not costumes. We’re not caricatures. You can’t dress up in a skirt and heels and consider yourself the same. We’re not only our hormones or our hair, our bodies or our mannerisms. We’re something spiritual and divine that can’t be replicated or manufactured.
    I’m not ok with the degradation of womanhood. With the flippant way we’re portrayed and mocked. With the demand that I recognize a man as myself when he has never, COULD never, pay the price that womanhood requires.
    This discussion also serves as an unexpected evidence for God to me. His design is so intentional, so orchestrated, it would seem. The man and the woman, the masculine and the feminine. The relationship between the two and how a family and children are so beautifully able to be conceived and thrive because of the union of both.
    I’ve lost God lately. I don’t know Him like I used to think I did. But I found a piece of Him in this thoughtful discussion.

      LADY SUDA and THE MORRIGAN Ай бұрын

      The divine masculine and sacred feminine! ✨

    • Tibor Bana
      Tibor Bana 2 ай бұрын +1

      You have not understood fully this part. Yes raising kids is sacrifice, but when they start to get independent you step back a little and let them, it is not more sacrifice, it is the joy of a teacher/master who taught their pupil well and revel in their progress.

    • Inspector Gadget
      Inspector Gadget 2 ай бұрын

      ❤ 👏🏼

    • Fred Bloggs
      Fred Bloggs 2 ай бұрын +3

      The absolute Majority of men are with you and support all women, and generally reject Trans ideology in men, and feel deeply for those young girls being peddled such a lie abouth thier identities. Its difficult enough being a young female in todays world without this distortion of reality being thrust upon them. God is always with us and we fight the good fight with all our might.

    • rysloan
      rysloan 2 ай бұрын +4

      The Bible talks about how marriage was setup to be a model/type/analogy of i) God and Israel and ii) Christ and the Church, and to bring us deeper understanding of these relationships.
      But in our vehemently anti-God world, all the fundamental concepts (man, woman, marriage, innocence, knowledge, good, bad, etc) are being twisted to make the original message incomprehensible to us.
      Once you understand that is the motivation behind everything, then it all begins to make perfect sense and you can easily predict the next moves.

  • Chaya Miller
    Chaya Miller 2 ай бұрын +1

    Thank you so much for sharing this incredibly informative and necessary conversation

  • Tomboy Warrior
    Tomboy Warrior 2 ай бұрын +3

    1:07:23 - 1:07:47
    With tears in my eyes, I feel the same Dr. Peterson. I'm so frustrated and hate how much people cannot see the truth and understand that this is all insanity.

  • Arwin Capati
    Arwin Capati 3 ай бұрын +1

    This is the way to delicately discuss a simple thought regarding the gender identification. Love the way they elaborated the difference of reality and imaginary ways of identification things.

  • picknpull8888
    picknpull8888 2 ай бұрын

    This conversation was very eye opening for me. Thank you both very much!

  • Keith Garlid
    Keith Garlid Ай бұрын

    The insights from both participants are valuable and beautifully expressed. Is a transcript available by any chance?

  • Rachel Richards
    Rachel Richards 6 ай бұрын +202

    "We are not made of meat lego's"...epic visual and absolutely true. Thank you for these conversations.

    • Terry's Travels!
      Terry's Travels! 6 ай бұрын +1

      Yes! Exactly the clever phrase I picked up on ( and commented on). This video is marvellous. I’ve missed listening to JP. Might have to look up this woman now, a fellow lapsed RC like me who possibly shares the same damage.

    • mike hennessy
      mike hennessy 6 ай бұрын +1

      Ya super deep

  • Sanne
    Sanne 2 ай бұрын +14

    Interesting point made about young women not wanting to become their mothers. I found the prospect of ageing absolutely terrifying when I was in my teens and early twenties. Until one day I looked at my grandmother, and thought: "I want to age gracefully like her." I need no youth, no perfect figure, no perfect face. Just the right attitude: dignity, grace, and a warm touch.

    • Marlis Mueller
      Marlis Mueller 8 күн бұрын

      Wonderful words!

    • NiratSurat
      NiratSurat 2 ай бұрын +1

      I’ve always said that gray hair is earned. I think it’s a combination of society’s buying into the marketing of everything being tied to sex appeal, youth, exciting, new, and cutting edge as well as our vision of our parents being primarily representative of being disciplinarians and the vessel of No I think that’s because of this drive peddled to society of unlimited freedom. Anathema to No.

    • Danielle Nebbe
      Danielle Nebbe 2 ай бұрын

      My grandmother is also how I want to be when I grow older. I've grown to see that aging is OK and I want to be a good, honest, kind and intelligent old lady

  • Jill Aichele
    Jill Aichele 2 ай бұрын +1

    Wow…this man is so brilliant at constructing an argument. I can only imagine what it would have been like to be his student.. UOfT’s loss is our gain!!

  • TheTruthwillsetyoufree
    TheTruthwillsetyoufree Ай бұрын +1

    I’m not quite 50 and started the menopause 5 years ago, I’ve felt useless to society and looked down on since then. It is true that our society does not value age and experience and motherhood. Before I had my children I was a veterinary nurse for 10 years and I loved my job. I left after I married to have my kids as I couldn’t afford childcare on my pay but I struggled to redefine myself as “just a mother”. Once my children left school I have felt lost, without an identity. Society tells me I’m no use, no longer young, my looks have gone, I can’t go back to work as due to a genetic condition which was exacerbated by pregnancy my health has gone too. I feel our society has a very shallow view of what it is to be a woman. To an extent this is made worse by women ourselves, is it any wonder then that some men think all it takes to be a woman is to have mammary glands and lipstick?