Matt pat : "I'm sorry, but I can't fault a guy with a dream, that overcomes adversity to get tremendous success, as the bad guy here" Also mattpat: "Remy is the villain of ratatouille"
@quorented People don't despise governments because they limit freedom for the safety and fairness for all, but because often time the governors use their authority to govern maliciously and abuse those being governed. And not everyone flourishes in a conformist society or mindset, for example schools punishing those who are gifted/skilled in a certain subject while absolute dog water in another.
@NickTara The real difference is that, technically speaking, the Onceler is never dishonest about his goals and ambitions. He just never thought ahead in regard to the extremely limited quantity of Trufula trees. Remy on the other hand is a bit ironic because he is constantly using deceit to obtain success, but in his case it's because he has literally no other option due to being a rat and culinary success is purely a human thing. So in this regard, Remy can be the villain but also the protagonist with a very understandable and morally correct position and would not be the first character to have this dynamic in storytelling.
My favorite part from this movie was always the “let it die, let it die, let it shrivel you and die” the way Mr.Ohare just claps and taps his feet was so fucking funny
The saddest part of this theory is that there was a version of the Lorax that was planned to have that message. The problem was the people in charge of illumination didn’t want to make themselves look bad.
@MonaGOAT🐐because why would consumers want a product that’s basically calling them out? People buy what makes them feel good, and for the general public, the would rather hear “big company bad” instead of “you are part of the problem”
@MonaGOAT🐐 The problem is that both the customers and the company owners are at wrong, the message of the movie is and always was very anti capitalistic bc the onceler was the one who started cutting down trees, he was the one who saw all the animals and yet he decided that his own greed was more important. Both the people buying the thneeds and him for making the thneeds were very much in the wrong, neither of them got what they needed just what they wanted. The onceling didn’t need a whole city, he seemed pretty happy in his tiny house with the animals and the lorax too. The people didn’t need a thneed. As quite often this film theory guy, gets the message of the movie all wrong. The lorax is an anti-cappitalistic movie that blames both the costumers and the companies but mainly the companies. Which makes sense if you just listen to the lyrics of its songs “the costumers are buying, the PR people are lying and the lawyers are denying”. Thats exactly like real life where big companies don’t want their dark stuff, like their influence on the climate or under paid employees to come out of the closet. The people of thneedville didn’t know every actual tree on the block was gone, thats why they were all mad and chocked when the wall came down and they saw the waist land for themselves.
@In This Moment I get what you’re saying, but the point was he had a smart idea, and made a stupid oopsie when not thinking about the longevity of his source for making the thneeds. And the thneed wasn’t necessarily a necessity, it was more like a multi-use convenience that became trendy (which trends irl are often known for people having the “need” for that thing). And since people liked it and wanted more, he made more, yk?
I think the difference between the consumer and the big business men is the disconnect. Most of the thneed buyers weren’t in the forest so they couldn’t see the consequences of their greed whereas the onceler can clearly see and is warned repeatedly that his actions are ruining the world.
I think another large problem is once the economy really took a hit, the thneed was just too big. It was practically a staple (based on circumstantial evidence). Large companies end up making the pillars of an economy. Imagine if Wal-Mart suddenly stopped. Sure, competitors would fill the need for the consumer, but remember, Wal-Mart is the second largest employer in the United States, right behind the US Government (which includes the military). All those people simply without a job. Taxes from incomes and whatever the company just cant weasel out of paying suddenly gone. Millions of dollars that would get recirculated stop flowing. I think the Once-ler was A) a bad businessman and B) the greed of his overbearing and dominant family forced his hand early on, and by the time the crisis at hand was unavoidable, it was going to cause massive repercussions to stop. As someone else pointed out, the Lorax and the Once-ler just couldn't agree. The Lorax wouldn't except any trees being cut down, when they really didn't need to be. Look at the tools his family was using, little clamp things that grabbed a single tuff at a time. Ladders and baskets would've been more sustainable. TL;DR Still not the Once-ler's fault for being a bad businessman, but also his oppressive and greedy family, and the unwillingness of the Lorax to compromise combined with the unimaginable demand of the thneed by the consumers caused this apocalyptic catastrophe
I think the real tragedy is that the onceler and the Lorax failed to see from each other’s POV. They both seemed to sound really preachy and arrogant when they could have found a way for everyone to win. Consider this, what if the onceler hired the Lorax to oversee re-planting of the trees? Maybe even creating designated no-cut zones they can make into parks, then charging admission to them and splitting the profits?
The obvious (and better for business) solution was the one we see early on in the movie: picking the tuffs by hand. Yes, it takes longer, but it keeps the tree alive and thus allows it to continiously grow the materials the Oncler needs. Y'know -- farming. Better for nature, better for business.
@TAnimation 7 But the Lorax doesn't come up with alternatives - doesn't suggest anything. Truax is a satire of the Lorax by loggers who, unlike the Onceler, understand if they don't make their business sustainable they will be out of work.
The older animated adaptation has the two seeing more eye to eye. With The Onceler saying that if he closes his factory then hundreds of workers would be layer off and the Lorax understanding.
@Shaan Singh It was originally gonna be the villain song for the Once-ler until they decided to cut it and change it to "How Bad Can I Be?". You can search it here on youtube. Personally, "Biggering" is definitely the better song that should've been used.
Blame the suits at Illumination. They don't appreciate thoughtful art. They're too afraid to make themselves look bad! They're the ones who agreed to use THIS movie in distasteful ads.
I have complaint about the bottled water analogy whenever it’s brought up. Tap water is not safe to drink in so many places without having to buy either bottled water or plastic water filters
And even if the tap water is safe to drink, it will always taste off. Bottled water will always taste better and it’s also meant to be consumed, rather than just for cleaning.
Actually, some people _can't_ "vote with their dollar" because they have to get the cheapest option. Seeing as thneeds are incredibly useful in many circumstances, it may be the best option for people with tight budgets.
@RosesBubble These are the same questions retorted back then when it was suggested. So I ask what is worth more, your convenience of regular life or making a statement and changing the world you are in? People do know I am referencing a history event right? I am not telling people to do it just saying a event of the pass that relates to this event.
Bro every time I hear a theory from MatPat, my mind just explodes- Like how many hours does MatPat research and stuff? It's kinda scary to think about 😭
@DJ Mewtwo And thing is, they could have incorporated the mommy issues into this still, they just executed it poorly. He was pushed by his family, yes, but it was still the Once-ler's decision to continue, as he developed delusions of grandeur
You must be joking right? While I’m not against developing the character they completely destroyed the idea of who the character was supposed to be. He was supposed to be a businessman that understood that he was destroying nature but simply didn’t care enough.
So-called “managed forests” are just large-scale tree farms that lack the real biodiversity and full ecological benefits of wild forests. In fact I would go as far as to say “managed forest” are as similar to a wild forest as a wheat field is to a wild prairie.
@tylerandari12 It CAN be a mass extinction! Do you have any idea just how many species of animals have gone extinct or nearly so due to human greed? The animals would've been fine otherwise. And "Do you want a house? " Really? If humans haven't overpopulated the planet and used religion and self-imposed "morals", not to mention the ever increasing prices of houses, so much devastation wouldve been avoided. I DARE you to reply.
@The Happy Seal bringing good vibes We are apart of nature are we not? The materials we use to create machines are natural are they not? If something is created using natural materials why does that make it "unnatural"?
@Jaiden well yes, but i was moreso using the video as a backup for my statements. and while yes, youre correct, human interference really will always be there, and thats a fact. so while we may have the ability to lessen the impact, it will still leave a majority of the population feeling hopeless. i didnt make it clear, but that was sort of part of it but yeah no i totally see what you mean, so i guess this might just a half glass empty or glass half full scenario? not sure, but its a possibility im also sorry that it took me 4 weeks or so to respond, ive been on vacation and just got home to see this
O’Hare and the Onceler are definitely the villains. They did not have any transparency at all, that’s the only reason the costumers kept buying, that was the reason why everyone was happy. Like I said before, there is a stark difference between true happiness and blissful ignorance.
Also, the world wouldn't actually "run out of air" like the movie suggests if we lost all of our trees considering the fact that most of earths air (70 percent) is actually created by phytoplankton and other micro organisms. Would it be much hotter without trees? Absolutely, an oxygenless wasteland however, not by any stretch of the imagination.
It also depends on what is meant by "if we lost our trees". Do the trees just get erased from existence and take their biomass with them? Or do they all die, and decay, and return their carbon back into the ecosystem in the form of carbon dioxide and methane. Because that makes a BIG difference. It might actually even take a big bite out of global warming if the trees all just vanished because then other things would grow like grass which would still photosynthesize a comparable fraction of the light hitting it per unit area, but all that carbon would be permanently sequestered.
Given it’s a Childress book about the fears of conservationists I suspect evolution doesn’t really exist and that truffeller trees are the only ones because it’s more poinyet
@Luca M Life would find a way, certain species of phytoplankton would adapt to these changes and fill the niche. Another flaw is that they act as if truffula trees are the only tree species but they can't possibly be the only one so another tree type would fill that niche. Sure no more thneeds but trees would continue to exist.
6:48 to be fair You're comparing two radically different things. Water is an economic good affected by scarcity while air isn't scarce enough. The convenience of having cheap and portable water is enough for people to buy.
Yes! Also not ALL places have safe water to drink. Many people have little other choice but to buy bottled water. Shows how privileged our Matty is being.. Oof
My grade actually did a play recently on this movie for March Madness. Worked myself to the bone making props but it was probably the most fun school event in years even though we came in last place (the judges were all old and had no idea what it was apparently). The Once-ler is no longer the Once-ler, he is officially one of my classmates dancing around on stage in a suit. I can't see it any other way now lmao
I think the difference when talking about bottled air and the Thnee's is the fact that you ARE able to choose if you want it, in real life there is so much companies that force us to buy they're products like food,houses,water,warmth. It's a lot harder to say no to something like that because it's holding your basic needs against you.
Ok cool but tbh, another way the Onceler can bypass needing to cut down trees, is use some fancy sucking machine to pluck the fibers of the truffle trees more sustainably, so then Thneed production could both be both efficient, and won't ruin the environment as badly. If they can build this fancy Axe machine, they can build that.
@Bruce Grubb True, realistically the Onceler could have done it sustainable which I wish was more the focus of the story instead of it being business and resource use is bad. It's a real shame that the illumination film squandered the opportunity.
@1810Jeff True but that is something _the Lorax_ could have pointed out. We do get some key details in the animated short "It takes 10 months for Truffula seed to germinate. It takes 10 long years before the seed grows into sapling. It takes 10 more years..." (Lorax cut off) Neither one if you forgive the pun could see the forest for the trees.
@Bruce Grubb Yes but even in that version he could have replanted the trees the same way logging companies do so he could keep it going forever. Or he could have just make the thneeds high demand low supply items like Yeezys or other "drop" based products.
@1810Jeff But in the original animated version the Onceler didn't even try to come up with a way to remove the fibers form the trees and there was no one pushing him to do boneheaded things in that version.
@Knight of Carrion : Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that I keep pointing out that there was _nothing indicating to the parents that the lake was dangerous?_ And is it really _that_ hard for you to grasp the concept of "if you make a mess, you're responsible for it"? If you make something dangerous, it is your responsibility to take measures to keep people away from it. Assuming that everyone else is going to have the presence of mind to avoid it themselves even if it is obviously dangerous is demonstrably foolish and irresponsible. "They should have known better" is not an excuse for you to leave dangerous things where anybody can access them. At _best_ it means they _share_ the responsibility for hurting themselves with you. That's why every single construction sight has numerous signs and barriers to keep people out. It's why zoo enclosures have to be built to keep people out just as much as they keep the animals in. It's why scrap/junk yards have fences. If something of yours is dangerous, you _need_ to take precautions to protect the public from themselves, and if you don't then you are responsible for what happens.
@NotAGoat They should watch their children. idk whats so gard about that. The kid didnt run away, the parents brought the kid into the posion. A drunk person is responible for their own actions. You are responsible for making sure you are in a state to make sound decisions. And a family is responsible for their pets. A company isnt responsbile for your actions.
@Knight of Carrion : Yes, the parents were responsible for not paying attention to the warning signs that _were not there._ And even if they _would_ have had some way that they should have known about the danger, the company _still_ has responsibility to protect the public from their mess. Parents can be irresponsible, and many of them are. While these parents should be held accountable for their irresponsibility, the company would _also_ be responsible for not taking proper precautions to keep people away from their dangerous mess. Because some people _will_ do something foolish, or fail to recognize the danger. Furthermore, children can run off on their own or sneak out of the house. No matter how good of a parent you are, you cannot have eyes on your kid at all times. Kids _will_ find a way at some point to go off on their own. And who says it's only children who are at risk anyway? Suppose someone gets drunk and decides to go for a midnight swim. Or suppose the family pet gets out and drinks the water. If you dump toxic sludge into a public lake, _you_ are responsible for the consequences.
@NotAGoat wtf are you talking about. No, its your responability to watch your child. Some drunk driver breaking into a yard is illegal and completely a different case then watching your child swimming near poison lol. Watch your dang kids
@Knight of Carrion : Right. And when a drunk driver swerves off the road and hits your kid, it's the _parents'_ fault for not telling the kid to play somewhere else in the yard. It is the responsibility of the society as a whole to take at least basic measures to not unnecessarily endanger others through their actions. If someone slips poison into food, that person is responsible for any harm that results from someone else eating that food. The company poisoned the lake, so the company is responsible for any harm that results from someone else swimming in the lake and should have taken appropriate measures to avoid that.
Most bad guys create a problem and sell the solution. Ohair got lucky and didn’t have to create a problem, He just had to create a solution. He became the bad guy when he decided to keep them dependent on his product. He made one utopia out of nothing, he could make more with what he’s earned. If he really wanted to help he could’ve. We just happened to catch him in his tipping point. He realized keeping his clientele in one happy, complacent group is better for his personal gain.
Imagine a show that takes place in a timeline where the people didn't ask for more thneeds and it's just a slice of life where the lorax and onceler are roommates
Matpat is literally saying that no one is a victim to O'Hare's smog when literally there is a glowing child, and i blame the parents for the destruction of the forest cuz the mom said to chop down trees and when the business started to collapse Once-lers' mother took all the money and left him in the barren wasteland, and yes the consumer is to blame for it a little bit cuz they encouraged to chop down trees.
6:40 gotta love that entitlement not all of us can drink from the tap mattpat some of us has lead in their pipes or you know that water is contiminated . also when theirs an emergency you need bottled water.
His tone is more 'its unnecessary' because its the same quality just a different package Not the case with water Drinking water is essentially filtered tap i see that but then there's the whole spring water thing
Huh? That is the point? In the movie you need to buy air everywhere that is not the city. Just like you need to buy bottled water in every country that is not part of the top 15 richest Nations. The analogy works very well.
I feel like the Lorax movie could be great in an alternate timeline and the cut song Biggering kinda proves this. Thneedville, a town so used to how awful the environment is that they happily sing opening numbers talking about their abysmal living conditions and think they're living in paradise is a genius addition that honestly could have added a whole other layer to the story. Also it's kinda ironic how in extending the story for an hour, at least half of the slow escalation of the original story is just rushed through in a single musical number
I found out about Lorax by hearing "how bad can I be" in a youtube animation. I still haven't watched it a single time but I know almost everything about the story. And not gonna lie, the only interesting unit here for me is Once'ler. His songs are awesome, the "biggering" is just priceless. It is such, such a pitty they deleted it from the movie, I'll never forgive that! I think Once'ler is a very cool villian who was deeply driven crazy with his company and BY his family (which was actually dissapointed when he ran out of money!!!! they are rhe main villains for sure). And "biggering" helps you to take a much bigger dip in his story, it really has a point. I also like his monster transformation that was showen in the original song, but it will never be so dark and true as biggering.
“But one thing we can say is that before Oh Hair the town was a wasteland” So we just gonna ignore the Once-Ler’s model of Thneedvile in his office? The one he adjusts as if planning a construction project?
I always thought the family was the villains because they force him to chop down the trees, and then when they run out, the mother is disappointed in him.
yeah they leave once he stops making something for them to profit off of and they hurry to chop down trees once he gives the ok. i also noticed that onceler doesnt chop down a single one, its always a machine or his family
@inugeek411 Simply harvesting the tufts would've still messed with the ecosystem, as the seeds in the tufts were destroyed rather than falling to the ground and growing new trees. Tuft-less trees wouldn't be able to provide shade for the ecosystem in the dirt, so any random seeds that dropped would've been more likely to wither. Maybe they should've just harvested every other tuft, or only part of each tuft? We also don't know if or how quickly tufts grow back.
@inugeek411 They movie actually talks about this and the family actively say they don't care as cutting the tree down is faster, why spend time going up and gathering the tufts when you can build a big machine to cut them down and sort the tuft and wood?
@inugeek411 I'm just kind of watching this argument and you know what, it doesn't matter. You can't change the past so at least the people in the town are happy with the present that they now have even though a lot of unnecessary stuff had to happen. But it was a funny ddebate to observe 😂
This episode is particularly a big part of the year since it was the video I watched the day before I legitimately went insane due to a disease that made me hallucinate and dream while I'm awake
I'd say you're right about the consumers being at fault for demanding the products, but the corporations also have the choice to not give into that demand.
No. Any business that doesn’t sell a product that consumers want is one doomed to fail. Lemonade stands don’t open in the winter because they can’t sell enough in the winter to even equal the cost of the materials. Corporate businesses have more costs than lemonade, so the choice they have is to sell wanted things or go bankrupt, not whether or not it’s moral to sell the product.
@Luca M You’re right. That does sound bizarre. I just meant corporations technically have the choice to not give into consumer demand, even if they usually do not go for that choice.
@Dragonier D. Zabala It's fine for others to try to prove the character is something else and give it labels, but in fiction, the character is defined by the creator just like every other fictional aspect of a story. Say for example if I create a human character and I call him a tree. You can clearly argue that it's not a tree, it's a human, but at its root (get it? root? you can laugh now.) it's a tree because I am the creator of this fictional character, and I gave him the title "Tree". You don't even have to believe it's a tree or call it a tree, but it is a tree.
@christopher campbell I'm being mean & bully 😡😤👊 for fun. Sorry, I promise I don't go past calling peps tools. I'll stop. Well, just because you created a character to be 1 way, it doesn't mean it's a factually that way. If the feats shown you're not that way, they prove the author wrong because feats are overall.
@Dragonier D. Zabala I see what you mean, but I think we just have a misunderstanding. Mat just said they weren't villains, and you can believe what you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the writers created the Once Ler to be a villain. Also, why am I a dunce? I don't think you're a dunce; I thought we were friends ;(
14:34 "Because unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better" Me who saw that on a trash can at The Lorax Park in Islands of Adventure in Universal at Orlando: I approve this message.
I feel like the reason why O’Hare didn’t want the seed planted is because he saw what happened before with the Once-Ler so he doesn’t want it to happen again
hot take: The real villain is the mom. The onceler just wanted to make his product, but he'd been so broken down by his mom constantly telling him that he was and would always be a failure, that finally getting validation from her blinded him to everything else, including the fact that she was a gold digger and wanted to cut down trees to make more money
@Frost i get that, but the only problem with these types of business is that they stopped becoming businesses and if you think Abt it became governments, o heir took his business and made it pretty much the only business with maybe a few others under his control, same with the oncler, he made so many shneeds and everyone wanted one that he was pretty much the only business making him almost like s government cuz he could control the people, the problem isn't businesses it's when there's no other option, just think if there were 2 air companies instead of just o heirs and the other one had good morals that one would've come out on top and then more companies would've been made and the consumers would decide which ones they want to stay for business, if anything this shows that powerful government is currupt as it always is, ik China you can't just start any bud you need permission from the government of what your allowed to do, yes we have restrictions on the us but anyone can pretty much start any type of business, for example of you don't like Starbucks you can always go to another place for coffee or just make your own
@Frost but he does realize, he just realized to late, he was starved of his mother's love and being loved in general that once he made s product that made everyone love him he kept making it with his mom manipulating, him to keep doing so, I'm not saying what he did was right but you have to understand where he's coming from, and like i said eventually he did realize what he had done and that's why he helped the kid out in the movie
Man if they left in the original songs the movie would be so much better. The original thneedvile song was about how everyone was greedy and only cared about the material things, and in the how bad can I be song was originally called biggering and showed the Onceler seeing what he’s doing but chooses to keep going out of greed and pride, also the guitar rift is amazing!!
Here’s a mini theory the oncler isn’t defeated by his greed because of you look near the end of the movie when he’s in his factor it says that he sold over 52 million thneeds and if you go back to the beginning you can see that 1 tree = 1 thneed meaning there had to be at least 52 million truffula tree and yes he did originally harvest the tuffs which was slower but a much smarter business strategy because him and his family could’ve harvested the tuff and left the trees there and then go to harvest the other half or so tree while the ones that where just harvested regrow their tuffs meaning the oncler isn’t defeated by his greed but by his ignorance of basic botany
i liked that ted wasnt in it for the tree itself and just wanted to make audrey happy but then realized that planting a tree is a whole ordeal in their universe and that plastic and junk sucks
In the old concept of the movie it was mostly about human greed and pride that feeds it. In that version Ted wanted a tree for himself, because he was greedy and wanted the things he didn't have.
matt if you like the songs in this movie then you have to hear Biggering, one of the songs they ended up not using in the movie. it’s so good and was stuck in my head for months
@匚ㄩ尺丂乇ᗪ but it isn't radioactive, there's no nuclear plants anywhere. Probably just an remanate of pre-ohare, since people were coughing and wheezing before ohare.
@shadowsa2b Please learn how to spell "was" and using your periods and statements correctly. Also was why didn't you capitalize the "P" in please? Here's how you should of written that statement: That was the longest run on sentence ever! Lol. and how you should of wrote that sentence: Please learn how to use more period's and fewer comma's. Don't be that guy that tries to correct other people's grammar. No one really cares, it's just the internet! :)
I feel like this message can be put with every big corporation out there. KZcliprs keep saying “If you want your voices be heard, do it with your money, don’t buy it, that will only tell these companies that you want more of it” or something very close to those lines. This message is honestly, very uncanny
Did anyone else realize that matpat through this theory is rhyming man gotta love matpats commitment to his videos regardless if he's Wright about this one or wrong just the production and creativeness impresses Me
@Galagar Rocket you didn’t really listen to the song, did you? It’s about how the Once-Ler embraces his biggering to the point where he doesn’t care at all about how much he’s destroying the environment. More isn’t always better. At some point, taking more is worse because then there won’t be much for the next generation.
I mean the next line in the song how bad could I possibly be, the next line is "and the lawyers are denying" If the company is constantly telling you something is okay, you'll believe them.
I'd argue the one thing that does make ohare seem like a villain is the fact that he forces people to stay within the walls (or at least that is what I remember him doing, havent watched the movie ina long time).
I've always seen The Lorax as a Dystopian future with no trees. The people are "happy" because they couldn't see what's outside Thneedville, what the world has become outside. And O'hare takes advantage of that to make profit. You can argue that O'hare and the Oncers aren't evil, but that's just how villains are written in every media. They always has to have some kind of motivation that's plausible to understand and see the meaning behind their actions. If anything, it's the "actions" that defines what a villain is, and the actions of these 2 people are definitely not good.
It's so sad that the movie took on this more comedic, child-friendly tone. The book has a much better message and delivery. Also, the song they cut out of the movie (Biggering) is one of my favorite songs now.
It’s because it’s made by illumination, they used to be a pretty good company until they realized that they could make lazy movies with terrible storyline and plot and still get lots of money for it since they’ve previously made a name for themselves in the movie world
If you want a song that more accurately embodies the original message of Lorax check out “biggering” from the Lorax it would’ve been in the movie but illumination cut it. It’s a great song too my favorite song in the Lorax by far.
I agree with this. I'm a cashier and we barely have enough salsa, (which people will fight for. I seen it before and they yelled at me more than one when I didn't have enough) and I had to salvage for other customers. I had a guy who will literally pay me for more salsa. I told him I literally didn't have enough and he left super angry at me. Some even called me the worst (I'm censoring their true comment). And I'm just trying to have enough for everyone......
what he said about the bottled air being stand in for bottled water reminded me that they really have monopolized water if you can't pay your water bill you don't get water and thats crazy
Till this day, i still wanna know how somebody was able to take a place where everything is destroyed and make a liveable place where everyone is happy.
Spot on. Another way to look at it is, even if O'Hare, or the Once-ler, had a 'change of heart' and stopped selling their products once they saw the damage it was causing, that wouldn't eliminate the demand for it. Some other person, or company, would simply step up and start producing to fill that demand instead. Nothing would really change.
Except they have as much if not more say in it then the average consumer but they won't make that change cause they'd sooner make the profit yeah you might say another business will rise up to do the same would it not be more eventful if one big business actively displays how the other big business is hiring the economy and not just the lone consumers? If they had a change of heart it would of been a much bigger impact then just an average consumer but again they'd rather aim to gain profit and pride
Disclaimer: Film Theory is not responsible for any psychological trauma inflicted by the Onceler fandom.
Correct
Lol
@Why Ţ̴̡̥̟̙͕̱͖͍͖̫͓̜̿̽̂̔͠͠u̸̢̘͔̗̭̣̣̰̟̝̎̈́̆̀̅̊̉̚͝͝ͅm̶̥͓̩̩͚̹͚̬̩̦͘b̷̡̜̓͠l̶̤̬͙̺̝̻̲̹͙̞̂̎̀̈́͐̑̕͜͝͝ṟ̵̤̺͔͓̖̱̗͌̆̑̍̏̎́̈́͘͘͝
Not gonna lie, how bad can I be slaps
LMAOOOO TRUE
The trees can’t be harmed if the Lorax is armed.
💀
Uh are you ok?
Dr. Seuss meets Django Unchained.
@Primate Gaming Washington Pepper X
@Donovan The Frog If the lorax could be real for 1000 years would you sacrifice 100 children cause I would the Lorax in real life sounds awesome
Matt pat : "I'm sorry, but I can't fault a guy with a dream, that overcomes adversity to get tremendous success, as the bad guy here"
Also mattpat: "Remy is the villain of ratatouille"
@quorented People don't despise governments because they limit freedom for the safety and fairness for all, but because often time the governors use their authority to govern maliciously and abuse those being governed. And not everyone flourishes in a conformist society or mindset, for example schools punishing those who are gifted/skilled in a certain subject while absolute dog water in another.
@NickTara
The real difference is that, technically speaking, the Onceler is never dishonest about his goals and ambitions. He just never thought ahead in regard to the extremely limited quantity of Trufula trees. Remy on the other hand is a bit ironic because he is constantly using deceit to obtain success, but in his case it's because he has literally no other option due to being a rat and culinary success is purely a human thing. So in this regard, Remy can be the villain but also the protagonist with a very understandable and morally correct position and would not be the first character to have this dynamic in storytelling.
EHEEHEE
yeah but their are people more badder and worse than him (Once-ler)
My favorite part from this movie was always the “let it die, let it die, let it shrivel you and die” the way Mr.Ohare just claps and taps his feet was so fucking funny
That's the only part of the movie I clearly remember at all times.
when this movie first came out and me and my friends were like... 7 or 8 we were obsessed with that part we thought it was SO funny
@Cottage Queen uh….. ain’t funny.
My brain to the annoying screaming kid in the grocery store.
The saddest part of this theory is that there was a version of the Lorax that was planned to have that message. The problem was the people in charge of illumination didn’t want to make themselves look bad.
@Bo Braekevelt Having biggering in the movie would have really made a big impact though and i wish the original concept should have been followed.
@MonaGOAT🐐because why would consumers want a product that’s basically calling them out? People buy what makes them feel good, and for the general public, the would rather hear “big company bad” instead of “you are part of the problem”
Before it was going to be more anti capitalist the lorax is an anti capitalist story.
@MonaGOAT🐐 The problem is that both the customers and the company owners are at wrong, the message of the movie is and always was very anti capitalistic bc the onceler was the one who started cutting down trees, he was the one who saw all the animals and yet he decided that his own greed was more important.
Both the people buying the thneeds and him for making the thneeds were very much in the wrong, neither of them got what they needed just what they wanted. The onceling didn’t need a whole city, he seemed pretty happy in his tiny house with the animals and the lorax too. The people didn’t need a thneed.
As quite often this film theory guy, gets the message of the movie all wrong. The lorax is an anti-cappitalistic movie that blames both the costumers and the companies but mainly the companies. Which makes sense if you just listen to the lyrics of its songs “the costumers are buying, the PR people are lying and the lawyers are denying”.
Thats exactly like real life where big companies don’t want their dark stuff, like their influence on the climate or under paid employees to come out of the closet. The people of thneedville didn’t know every actual tree on the block was gone, thats why they were all mad and chocked when the wall came down and they saw the waist land for themselves.
@In This Moment I get what you’re saying, but the point was he had a smart idea, and made a stupid oopsie when not thinking about the longevity of his source for making the thneeds. And the thneed wasn’t necessarily a necessity, it was more like a multi-use convenience that became trendy (which trends irl are often known for people having the “need” for that thing). And since people liked it and wanted more, he made more, yk?
I think the difference between the consumer and the big business men is the disconnect. Most of the thneed buyers weren’t in the forest so they couldn’t see the consequences of their greed whereas the onceler can clearly see and is warned repeatedly that his actions are ruining the world.
again, stupidity. either by them or him. in most cases, is why research needs to be done.
For real life
@Nathan Ramage Beautifully written. :) I agree.
I think another large problem is once the economy really took a hit, the thneed was just too big. It was practically a staple (based on circumstantial evidence). Large companies end up making the pillars of an economy. Imagine if Wal-Mart suddenly stopped. Sure, competitors would fill the need for the consumer, but remember, Wal-Mart is the second largest employer in the United States, right behind the US Government (which includes the military). All those people simply without a job. Taxes from incomes and whatever the company just cant weasel out of paying suddenly gone. Millions of dollars that would get recirculated stop flowing.
I think the Once-ler was A) a bad businessman and B) the greed of his overbearing and dominant family forced his hand early on, and by the time the crisis at hand was unavoidable, it was going to cause massive repercussions to stop. As someone else pointed out, the Lorax and the Once-ler just couldn't agree. The Lorax wouldn't except any trees being cut down, when they really didn't need to be. Look at the tools his family was using, little clamp things that grabbed a single tuff at a time. Ladders and baskets would've been more sustainable.
TL;DR Still not the Once-ler's fault for being a bad businessman, but also his oppressive and greedy family, and the unwillingness of the Lorax to compromise combined with the unimaginable demand of the thneed by the consumers caused this apocalyptic catastrophe
Plus he actively went on a PR and propaganda offensive to keep it from regulation
Lawyers are denying and all that
I both love and hate the fact that the Lorax fandom and the hipster Onceler fandom are almost entirely separate fandoms.
reminds me of the Final Fantasy fandom
Ikr. It's the rivalry even in the fandom
“It’s not evil, it’s just stupid” idk why but I love this line
gonna put that line in my fb biography i think, cause im pretty much REALLY stupid LMAOOO
Heh
@Anthony Smies I agree, :)
Same
I Agree
I think the real tragedy is that the onceler and the Lorax failed to see from each other’s POV.
They both seemed to sound really preachy and arrogant when they could have found a way for everyone to win. Consider this, what if the onceler hired the Lorax to oversee re-planting of the trees? Maybe even creating designated no-cut zones they can make into parks, then charging admission to them and splitting the profits?
The obvious (and better for business) solution was the one we see early on in the movie: picking the tuffs by hand. Yes, it takes longer, but it keeps the tree alive and thus allows it to continiously grow the materials the Oncler needs. Y'know -- farming. Better for nature, better for business.
@TAnimation 7 But the Lorax doesn't come up with alternatives - doesn't suggest anything. Truax is a satire of the Lorax by loggers who, unlike the Onceler, understand if they don't make their business sustainable they will be out of work.
The older animated adaptation has the two seeing more eye to eye. With The Onceler saying that if he closes his factory then hundreds of workers would be layer off and the Lorax understanding.
I'll tell you who the REAL villain is, whoever decided Biggering and the original concepts were to be scrapped, I'll never get over it
@Shaan Singh It was originally gonna be the villain song for the Once-ler until they decided to cut it and change it to "How Bad Can I Be?". You can search it here on youtube. Personally, "Biggering" is definitely the better song that should've been used.
FOR REAL
what's biggering?
Blame the suits at Illumination. They don't appreciate thoughtful art. They're too afraid to make themselves look bad! They're the ones who agreed to use THIS movie in distasteful ads.
True
I have complaint about the bottled water analogy whenever it’s brought up. Tap water is not safe to drink in so many places without having to buy either bottled water or plastic water filters
And even if the tap water is safe to drink, it will always taste off. Bottled water will always taste better and it’s also meant to be consumed, rather than just for cleaning.
@most definitely not a durian nice username
@Leon Müller there's a detail missing: In less developed areas (like my country), you can drink tap water, but only in major cities and towns.
I have a filter at home, i used to live in a country where tap water was not safe to drink, now it's just a habit lol.
Water or plastic water filters
Actually, some people _can't_ "vote with their dollar" because they have to get the cheapest option. Seeing as thneeds are incredibly useful in many circumstances, it may be the best option for people with tight budgets.
@Excursor Wait, what historical event are you referring to?
@Seishin I feel ya, if only common sense and birth control were more widely available.
I would agree but when I always see those same people who talk about having no budget also deciding to have kids I seem to lose complete empathy
@RosesBubble These are the same questions retorted back then when it was suggested. So I ask what is worth more, your convenience of regular life or making a statement and changing the world you are in?
People do know I am referencing a history event right?
I am not telling people to do it just saying a event of the pass that relates to this event.
Bro every time I hear a theory from MatPat, my mind just explodes- Like how many hours does MatPat research and stuff? It's kinda scary to think about 😭
and especially bc he's got 4 channels he runs with consistent posting and every video blows your mind??
@Hsifyarc Ofc I had too! *insert exaggerated shocked face* 😮 What would be my existence if I couldn't comment this?~ Lol ;)
lmao this has to be one of his weakest and you decided to write this on it 😭
@Xavier Mendoza Yeah, Probably- He's so determined-
He spending about half a week doing that
I'm sorry but the Onceler having "mommy issues" makes so much sense
@DJ Mewtwo And thing is, they could have incorporated the mommy issues into this still, they just executed it poorly. He was pushed by his family, yes, but it was still the Once-ler's decision to continue, as he developed delusions of grandeur
You must be joking right? While I’m not against developing the character they completely destroyed the idea of who the character was supposed to be. He was supposed to be a businessman that understood that he was destroying nature but simply didn’t care enough.
@Power Bank Cinema We’ve been trying to reach you about your car’s extended warranty.
NOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!
So-called “managed forests” are just large-scale tree farms that lack the real biodiversity and full ecological benefits of wild forests. In fact I would go as far as to say “managed forest” are as similar to a wild forest as a wheat field is to a wild prairie.
@the number twelve aight bet edge lord go to the Shadow Realm see if that works
@tylerandari12 It CAN be a mass extinction! Do you have any idea just how many species of animals have gone extinct or nearly so due to human greed? The animals would've been fine otherwise. And "Do you want a house? " Really? If humans haven't overpopulated the planet and used religion and self-imposed "morals", not to mention the ever increasing prices of houses, so much devastation wouldve been avoided. I DARE you to reply.
@The Happy Seal bringing good vibes We are apart of nature are we not? The materials we use to create machines are natural are they not? If something is created using natural materials why does that make it "unnatural"?
@tylerandari12 I don't think you've ever been to a managed forest.
@Jaiden well yes, but i was moreso using the video as a backup for my statements. and while yes, youre correct, human interference really will always be there, and thats a fact. so while we may have the ability to lessen the impact, it will still leave a majority of the population feeling hopeless. i didnt make it clear, but that was sort of part of it
but yeah no i totally see what you mean, so i guess this might just a half glass empty or glass half full scenario? not sure, but its a possibility
im also sorry that it took me 4 weeks or so to respond, ive been on vacation and just got home to see this
O’Hair may have saved everyone but he still manipulated the whole town into thinking they NEED the bottled air, a way for him to get money.
@Craig Tucker, but manipulation at a larger scale.
it's like Facebook giving Indonesia internet, and then convincing them Facebook WAS the internet.
thats just good business and marketing
Man, a salute to MatPat for digging through the Tumblr Onceler fandom. That is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on an enemy.
@❥︎» ghostiie !¡✩༄oh you sweet summer child..
HELP- FANDOM?
O’Hare and the Onceler are definitely the villains. They did not have any transparency at all, that’s the only reason the costumers kept buying, that was the reason why everyone was happy. Like I said before, there is a stark difference between true happiness and blissful ignorance.
Also, the world wouldn't actually "run out of air" like the movie suggests if we lost all of our trees considering the fact that most of earths air (70 percent) is actually created by phytoplankton and other micro organisms. Would it be much hotter without trees? Absolutely, an oxygenless wasteland however, not by any stretch of the imagination.
It also depends on what is meant by "if we lost our trees". Do the trees just get erased from existence and take their biomass with them? Or do they all die, and decay, and return their carbon back into the ecosystem in the form of carbon dioxide and methane. Because that makes a BIG difference. It might actually even take a big bite out of global warming if the trees all just vanished because then other things would grow like grass which would still photosynthesize a comparable fraction of the light hitting it per unit area, but all that carbon would be permanently sequestered.
Given it’s a Childress book about the fears of conservationists I suspect evolution doesn’t really exist and that truffeller trees are the only ones because it’s more poinyet
@Luca M Life would find a way, certain species of phytoplankton would adapt to these changes and fill the niche. Another flaw is that they act as if truffula trees are the only tree species but they can't possibly be the only one so another tree type would fill that niche. Sure no more thneeds but trees would continue to exist.
@Luca M Runaway greenhouse partially?
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not." my favorite Dr. Seuss quote ever.
Yeah
mine is the entirety of 'if I ran the circus'
Fun fact dr Seuss cheated on his wife with cancer
Best part is that can apply to literally any issue.
Jesus Christ
the good sovereign king who took away my years long nightly breathing battle instantly in an anointed prayer
loves you
6:48 to be fair
You're comparing two radically different things. Water is an economic good affected by scarcity while air isn't scarce enough. The convenience of having cheap and portable water is enough for people to buy.
Yes! Also not ALL places have safe water to drink. Many people have little other choice but to buy bottled water. Shows how privileged our Matty is being.. Oof
My grade actually did a play recently on this movie for March Madness. Worked myself to the bone making props but it was probably the most fun school event in years even though we came in last place (the judges were all old and had no idea what it was apparently). The Once-ler is no longer the Once-ler, he is officially one of my classmates dancing around on stage in a suit. I can't see it any other way now lmao
@Off-the -grounder I assume they knew of the book but not the movie. our thing was based off of the movie
How old does someone have to be to not know Dr. Seuss?
sounds fun. reminds me of my old aladdin school play lmfao
I think the difference when talking about bottled air and the Thnee's is the fact that you ARE able to choose if you want it, in real life there is so much companies that force us to buy they're products like food,houses,water,warmth. It's a lot harder to say no to something like that because it's holding your basic needs against you.
My personal favorite Dr.Suess quote… “UNLESS, someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better, it’s not.
Ok cool but tbh, another way the Onceler can bypass needing to cut down trees, is use some fancy sucking machine to pluck the fibers of the truffle trees more sustainably, so then Thneed production could both be both efficient, and won't ruin the environment as badly. If they can build this fancy Axe machine, they can build that.
@Bruce Grubb True, realistically the Onceler could have done it sustainable which I wish was more the focus of the story instead of it being business and resource use is bad. It's a real shame that the illumination film squandered the opportunity.
@1810Jeff True but that is something _the Lorax_ could have pointed out. We do get some key details in the animated short "It takes 10 months for Truffula seed to germinate. It takes 10 long years before the seed grows into sapling. It takes 10 more years..." (Lorax cut off)
Neither one if you forgive the pun could see the forest for the trees.
@Bruce Grubb Yes but even in that version he could have replanted the trees the same way logging companies do so he could keep it going forever. Or he could have just make the thneeds high demand low supply items like Yeezys or other "drop" based products.
@1810Jeff But in the original animated version the Onceler didn't even try to come up with a way to remove the fibers form the trees and there was no one pushing him to do boneheaded things in that version.
Matpat: "No one is suffering from O'hare's corporate greed."
Meanwhile: "Our son Wesley kinda glows"
@Knight of Carrion : Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that I keep pointing out that there was _nothing indicating to the parents that the lake was dangerous?_
And is it really _that_ hard for you to grasp the concept of "if you make a mess, you're responsible for it"? If you make something dangerous, it is your responsibility to take measures to keep people away from it. Assuming that everyone else is going to have the presence of mind to avoid it themselves even if it is obviously dangerous is demonstrably foolish and irresponsible. "They should have known better" is not an excuse for you to leave dangerous things where anybody can access them. At _best_ it means they _share_ the responsibility for hurting themselves with you. That's why every single construction sight has numerous signs and barriers to keep people out. It's why zoo enclosures have to be built to keep people out just as much as they keep the animals in. It's why scrap/junk yards have fences. If something of yours is dangerous, you _need_ to take precautions to protect the public from themselves, and if you don't then you are responsible for what happens.
@NotAGoat They should watch their children. idk whats so gard about that. The kid didnt run away, the parents brought the kid into the posion. A drunk person is responible for their own actions. You are responsible for making sure you are in a state to make sound decisions. And a family is responsible for their pets.
A company isnt responsbile for your actions.
@Knight of Carrion : Yes, the parents were responsible for not paying attention to the warning signs that _were not there._ And even if they _would_ have had some way that they should have known about the danger, the company _still_ has responsibility to protect the public from their mess. Parents can be irresponsible, and many of them are. While these parents should be held accountable for their irresponsibility, the company would _also_ be responsible for not taking proper precautions to keep people away from their dangerous mess. Because some people _will_ do something foolish, or fail to recognize the danger.
Furthermore, children can run off on their own or sneak out of the house. No matter how good of a parent you are, you cannot have eyes on your kid at all times. Kids _will_ find a way at some point to go off on their own.
And who says it's only children who are at risk anyway? Suppose someone gets drunk and decides to go for a midnight swim. Or suppose the family pet gets out and drinks the water.
If you dump toxic sludge into a public lake, _you_ are responsible for the consequences.
@NotAGoat wtf are you talking about. No, its your responability to watch your child. Some drunk driver breaking into a yard is illegal and completely a different case then watching your child swimming near poison lol. Watch your dang kids
@Knight of Carrion : Right. And when a drunk driver swerves off the road and hits your kid, it's the _parents'_ fault for not telling the kid to play somewhere else in the yard.
It is the responsibility of the society as a whole to take at least basic measures to not unnecessarily endanger others through their actions. If someone slips poison into food, that person is responsible for any harm that results from someone else eating that food. The company poisoned the lake, so the company is responsible for any harm that results from someone else swimming in the lake and should have taken appropriate measures to avoid that.
Most bad guys create a problem and sell the solution.
Ohair got lucky and didn’t have to create a problem, He just had to create a solution.
He became the bad guy when he decided to keep them dependent on his product. He made one utopia out of nothing, he could make more with what he’s earned. If he really wanted to help he could’ve.
We just happened to catch him in his tipping point. He realized keeping his clientele in one happy, complacent group is better for his personal gain.
Imagine a show that takes place in a timeline where the people didn't ask for more thneeds and it's just a slice of life where the lorax and onceler are roommates
The fact about paper and wood companies placing so much trees made my jaw drop. Not because they do it but the sheer amount
Matpat is literally saying that no one is a victim to O'Hare's smog when literally there is a glowing child, and i blame the parents for the destruction of the forest cuz the mom said to chop down trees and when the business started
to collapse Once-lers' mother took all the money and left him in the barren wasteland, and yes the consumer is to blame for it a little bit cuz they encouraged to chop down trees.
Yes! I was always questioning how evil the supposed “villains” were in the movie, now I know my suspicions were right.
And remember: The tree’s can’t be harmed if the Lorax is armed
But he has twigs for arms
Copy
6:40 gotta love that entitlement not all of us can drink from the tap mattpat some of us has lead in their pipes or you know that water is contiminated . also when theirs an emergency you need bottled water.
you'll be surprised the amount of people with perfectly good drinking water that buy tap water
His tone is more 'its unnecessary' because its the same quality just a different package
Not the case with water
Drinking water is essentially filtered tap i see that but then there's the whole spring water thing
Huh? That is the point?
In the movie you need to buy air everywhere that is not the city.
Just like you need to buy bottled water in every country that is not part of the top 15 richest Nations.
The analogy works very well.
I feel like the Lorax movie could be great in an alternate timeline and the cut song Biggering kinda proves this. Thneedville, a town so used to how awful the environment is that they happily sing opening numbers talking about their abysmal living conditions and think they're living in paradise is a genius addition that honestly could have added a whole other layer to the story.
Also it's kinda ironic how in extending the story for an hour, at least half of the slow escalation of the original story is just rushed through in a single musical number
@•Zerø• Sounds like paradise.
in a parallel world the movie was made with its original script with the demos and biggering songs
Could you do a theory on Klaus for December 2022? It's a really good movie with amazing characters and I think there'll be theories galore to find.
Mat never stop singing it's awesome to hear the theorist's singing voice
_"I am the Lorax and I speak for the trees. Save the Amazon, or I'll break your knees."_
*~ The Lorax*
y e s
_Run for your life, for they are speaking Vietnamese_
This made me LOL🥹thanks,ok you are a stranger but I needed a laugh.
#LetTheEarthBreathe
Hahahahaha!
I found out about Lorax by hearing "how bad can I be" in a youtube animation. I still haven't watched it a single time but I know almost everything about the story. And not gonna lie, the only interesting unit here for me is Once'ler. His songs are awesome, the "biggering" is just priceless. It is such, such a pitty they deleted it from the movie, I'll never forgive that! I think Once'ler is a very cool villian who was deeply driven crazy with his company and BY his family (which was actually dissapointed when he ran out of money!!!! they are rhe main villains for sure). And "biggering" helps you to take a much bigger dip in his story, it really has a point. I also like his monster transformation that was showen in the original song, but it will never be so dark and true as biggering.
“But one thing we can say is that before Oh Hair the town was a wasteland”
So we just gonna ignore the Once-Ler’s model of Thneedvile in his office? The one he adjusts as if planning a construction project?
“I say let it die”- words from a legend
I wonder if living in Theedville involves paying taxes? If O’Hare owns the city maybe the taxes are for paying that communal air
It's so weird seeing this message in the media... often it's always the big guy's fault
I always thought the family was the villains because they force him to chop down the trees, and then when they run out, the mother is disappointed in him.
yeah they leave once he stops making something for them to profit off of and they hurry to chop down trees once he gives the ok. i also noticed that onceler doesnt chop down a single one, its always a machine or his family
@inugeek411 Simply harvesting the tufts would've still messed with the ecosystem, as the seeds in the tufts were destroyed rather than falling to the ground and growing new trees. Tuft-less trees wouldn't be able to provide shade for the ecosystem in the dirt, so any random seeds that dropped would've been more likely to wither. Maybe they should've just harvested every other tuft, or only part of each tuft? We also don't know if or how quickly tufts grow back.
@inugeek411 They movie actually talks about this and the family actively say they don't care as cutting the tree down is faster, why spend time going up and gathering the tufts when you can build a big machine to cut them down and sort the tuft and wood?
@inugeek411 I'm just kind of watching this argument and you know what, it doesn't matter.
You can't change the past so at least the people in the town are happy with the present that they now have even though a lot of unnecessary stuff had to happen.
But it was a funny ddebate to observe 😂
@Logan Burke yeah. Since, depending on the ladder, you'd need to maintain your balance in addition to trying to harvest tufts, which is dangerous.
This was my favorite childhood movie which I would watch every day, I never thought matpat really ruined childhoods until now
Nah he is is not ruining our childhood because now we know the truth...
This episode is particularly a big part of the year since it was the video I watched the day before I legitimately went insane due to a disease that made me hallucinate and dream while I'm awake
Can we all just appreciate the intro for a second
I'd say you're right about the consumers being at fault for demanding the products, but the corporations also have the choice to not give into that demand.
@lukwisnie you do that and someone else will take your place, as long as theres people buying there will be coorportations providing
No. Any business that doesn’t sell a product that consumers want is one doomed to fail. Lemonade stands don’t open in the winter because they can’t sell enough in the winter to even equal the cost of the materials. Corporate businesses have more costs than lemonade, so the choice they have is to sell wanted things or go bankrupt, not whether or not it’s moral to sell the product.
@Luca M You’re right. That does sound bizarre. I just meant corporations technically have the choice to not give into consumer demand, even if they usually do not go for that choice.
You are asking a corporation to be more moral than consumers. Do you understand how bizarre that sounds?
Welcome to the Once-ler Fandom, MatPat
I'm surprised you haven't made a Theory on Once-ler and Norma Wiggins
Matpat is like the king of making "The villain is right" theories.
so I am right?
@Dragonier D. Zabala It's fine for others to try to prove the character is something else and give it labels, but in fiction, the character is defined by the creator just like every other fictional aspect of a story. Say for example if I create a human character and I call him a tree. You can clearly argue that it's not a tree, it's a human, but at its root (get it? root? you can laugh now.) it's a tree because I am the creator of this fictional character, and I gave him the title "Tree". You don't even have to believe it's a tree or call it a tree, but it is a tree.
@christopher campbell I'm being mean & bully 😡😤👊 for fun.
Sorry, I promise I don't go past calling peps tools.
I'll stop.
Well, just because you created a character to be 1 way, it doesn't mean it's a factually that way.
If the feats shown you're not that way, they prove the author wrong because feats are overall.
@Dragonier D. Zabala I see what you mean, but I think we just have a misunderstanding.
Mat just said they weren't villains, and you can believe what you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the writers created the Once Ler to be a villain.
Also, why am I a dunce? I don't think you're a dunce; I thought we were friends ;(
@christopher campbell No lol, not even that's what Mat proved, dunce.
He proved they aren't villains by the context of the film.
Teachers: so the main idea of this story is not to cut down trees!
Mat pat: how wrong can we possibly be?
14:34 "Because unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better"
Me who saw that on a trash can at The Lorax Park in Islands of Adventure in Universal at Orlando: I approve this message.
"The tree's shall not be harmed, when the Lorax is armed."
-Dr. Seuss
I’m still very upset the biggering was cut it’s the best villain song in my opinion
Don’t you just love when a movie completely misses the point of the original story
Dr. Seuss isn't just turning in his grave.
He's rotating so quickly he's drilling a hole into the earths core!
Ye
I guess he could "illuminate" a whole city.
@ItsChevnotJeff 2020 STOP TIHS NOWWWWWWWWWW (KABOOM)!
"Oh the places I'll go, away from this dump!"
-Dr. Seuss, probably
So that's why the earths core is getting colder...
"He can't believe it but if we want it he'll sell it" I had a spasm of joy from hearing that
Also they had a song planned called biggering,that seemed to REALLY push the whole “Cooperate greed” thing…
I feel like the reason why O’Hare didn’t want the seed planted is because he saw what happened before with the Once-Ler so he doesn’t want it to happen again
Mat Pat is just a lawyer for animated “villains”
Ayy! I’m so glad you made this video because I had this theory myself but I struggle with explaining my theories. :)
hot take: The real villain is the mom. The onceler just wanted to make his product, but he'd been so broken down by his mom constantly telling him that he was and would always be a failure, that finally getting validation from her blinded him to everything else, including the fact that she was a gold digger and wanted to cut down trees to make more money
@Sir Steam True
0
bruh yh the movie made that obvious
@Frost i get that, but the only problem with these types of business is that they stopped becoming businesses and if you think Abt it became governments, o heir took his business and made it pretty much the only business with maybe a few others under his control, same with the oncler, he made so many shneeds and everyone wanted one that he was pretty much the only business making him almost like s government cuz he could control the people, the problem isn't businesses it's when there's no other option, just think if there were 2 air companies instead of just o heirs and the other one had good morals that one would've come out on top and then more companies would've been made and the consumers would decide which ones they want to stay for business, if anything this shows that powerful government is currupt as it always is, ik China you can't just start any bud you need permission from the government of what your allowed to do, yes we have restrictions on the us but anyone can pretty much start any type of business, for example of you don't like Starbucks you can always go to another place for coffee or just make your own
@Frost but he does realize, he just realized to late, he was starved of his mother's love and being loved in general that once he made s product that made everyone love him he kept making it with his mom manipulating, him to keep doing so, I'm not saying what he did was right but you have to understand where he's coming from, and like i said eventually he did realize what he had done and that's why he helped the kid out in the movie
Man if they left in the original songs the movie would be so much better. The original thneedvile song was about how everyone was greedy and only cared about the material things, and in the how bad can I be song was originally called biggering and showed the Onceler seeing what he’s doing but chooses to keep going out of greed and pride, also the guitar rift is amazing!!
This is one of those 10 theorys that makes sense and nobody can hate on
Here’s a mini theory the oncler isn’t defeated by his greed because of you look near the end of the movie when he’s in his factor it says that he sold over 52 million thneeds and if you go back to the beginning you can see that 1 tree = 1 thneed meaning there had to be at least 52 million truffula tree and yes he did originally harvest the tuffs which was slower but a much smarter business strategy because him and his family could’ve harvested the tuff and left the trees there and then go to harvest the other half or so tree while the ones that where just harvested regrow their tuffs meaning the oncler isn’t defeated by his greed but by his ignorance of basic botany
I love how matpat plans an entire musical at the begging great vids even if you broke my childhood 😅
This video helped me get full marks in my writing exam one time, which, is basically impossible.
I just sort of ranted about this and it worked lol
Ted only wanted a tree to get his crush so it is sad to know that he did not really want trees. How could have I missed this.
i liked that ted wasnt in it for the tree itself and just wanted to make audrey happy but then realized that planting a tree is a whole ordeal in their universe and that plastic and junk sucks
It may not start with the right intentions but they changed later in the film
Speed fee
see now THIS feels like the most important part. im glad his intentions gradually gained more depth but did he even actually empathize w his crush?
In the old concept of the movie it was mostly about human greed and pride that feeds it. In that version Ted wanted a tree for himself, because he was greedy and wanted the things he didn't have.
matt if you like the songs in this movie then you have to hear Biggering, one of the songs they ended up not using in the movie. it’s so good and was stuck in my head for months
The intro is fire! I watched it more times than the full video.
I think this movie still said the message. Like you said, the message was that we were the ones to cause the downfall of the trees. Just like us.
I've watched this a number of times and it still makes my brain and conscious hurt!!!
Fun Fact, the person who plays The Onceler also plays Andy Bernard from The Office
The one thing Mat-Pat and everyone are not pointing out is the fact that the water is really toxic the kid is glowing
@匚ㄩ尺丂乇ᗪ but it isn't radioactive, there's no nuclear plants anywhere. Probably just an remanate of pre-ohare, since people were coughing and wheezing before ohare.
@samuel bonaya what
@shadowsa2b Please learn how to spell "was" and using your periods and statements correctly. Also was why didn't you capitalize the "P" in please?
Here's how you should of written that statement:
That was the longest run on sentence ever! Lol.
and how you should of wrote that sentence:
Please learn how to use more period's and fewer comma's.
Don't be that guy that tries to correct other people's grammar. No one really cares, it's just the internet! :)
@Lady Leviathan mhm
I love how you can make so much sense with your theories.
I feel like this message can be put with every big corporation out there. KZcliprs keep saying “If you want your voices be heard, do it with your money, don’t buy it, that will only tell these companies that you want more of it” or something very close to those lines. This message is honestly, very uncanny
You have a good point here. Consumer demand is what ultimately drives a business practices.
Did anyone else realize that matpat through this theory is rhyming man gotta love matpats commitment to his videos regardless if he's Wright about this one or wrong just the production and creativeness impresses Me
Ive been listening to How Bad Can I Be on repeat for 4 days
We just gonna ignore biggering? The best song in the album that doesn't acctualy appear in the movie because it hit illumination too close to home.
At first I didn’t realize..... I needed all this stuff.
@Galagar Rocket you didn’t really listen to the song, did you? It’s about how the Once-Ler embraces his biggering to the point where he doesn’t care at all about how much he’s destroying the environment. More isn’t always better. At some point, taking more is worse because then there won’t be much for the next generation.
Yeahhhhh
Imagine writing something so nuance it is taken away from popular media
I mean the next line in the song how bad could I possibly be, the next line is "and the lawyers are denying" If the company is constantly telling you something is okay, you'll believe them.
Dang that intro was actually very good. I’m extremely impressed by the lyric ideas and rhyming
he makes amazing points both for movie and reality
we should keep this in mind i think it would be the best idea
I'd argue the one thing that does make ohare seem like a villain is the fact that he forces people to stay within the walls (or at least that is what I remember him doing, havent watched the movie ina long time).
I've always seen The Lorax as a Dystopian future with no trees. The people are "happy" because they couldn't see what's outside Thneedville, what the world has become outside. And O'hare takes advantage of that to make profit.
You can argue that O'hare and the Oncers aren't evil, but that's just how villains are written in every media. They always has to have some kind of motivation that's plausible to understand and see the meaning behind their actions. If anything, it's the "actions" that defines what a villain is, and the actions of these 2 people are definitely not good.
It's so sad that the movie took on this more comedic, child-friendly tone. The book has a much better message and delivery. Also, the song they cut out of the movie (Biggering) is one of my favorite songs now.
Yeah
It’s because it’s made by illumination, they used to be a pretty good company until they realized that they could make lazy movies with terrible storyline and plot and still get lots of money for it since they’ve previously made a name for themselves in the movie world
@Sboink The Leg Day you should express yourself more respectful i think
Ya it shows how normal people can become corrupt better
If you want a song that more accurately embodies the original message of Lorax check out “biggering” from the Lorax it would’ve been in the movie but illumination cut it. It’s a great song too my favorite song in the Lorax by far.
I agree with this. I'm a cashier and we barely have enough salsa, (which people will fight for. I seen it before and they yelled at me more than one when I didn't have enough) and I had to salvage for other customers. I had a guy who will literally pay me for more salsa. I told him I literally didn't have enough and he left super angry at me. Some even called me the worst (I'm censoring their true comment). And I'm just trying to have enough for everyone......
What are we always told
"The customer is always right"
You know, they should be on tv. Like it would be more intresting and educational than 90% of the tv shows
In all my years until now I never knew how dr. seuss looked I always made up how I thought he looked and went with that until today🤯
God, I swear if MatPat makes the onceler fandom come back I will actually cry.
MatPat, I told you it would come to this...THE ONCELERS ARE TAKING OVER!!!
It did
I actually watched the Lorax a week ago
VeryRound well... it is 2020. Stranger things have happened.
They were always here. Hiding in the shadows. And now it is their time to come out of hiding.
what he said about the bottled air being stand in for bottled water reminded me that they really have monopolized water if you can't pay your water bill you don't get water and thats crazy
I understood the movie as a very inspirational movie with a true lesson
1:41 Wait, I missed it too? So after all these years the movie WASN'T a goldmine of memes?
Till this day, i still wanna know how somebody was able to take a place where everything is destroyed and make a liveable place where everyone is happy.
@Sunnysideupnexus And at the end of the movie when Ted destroyed the wall,some people started to cough
@Sunnysideupnexus And they did not cough because onceler built the walls the keep all the smog away
@Sunnysideupnexus At the beggining of the movie the people in thneedville coughed because there was no walls
@Catzofunny understandable
@Sunnysideupnexus They just built AOT walls to keep all the smoke on the other side
This guy's spitting out facts!
MatPat acknowledging the existence of Onceler x Evil Onceler is probably the most cursed thing Ive heard this week
Classic oncest
timestamp? I didnt catch where it was
He's called greedler 😤😤
🤚🤣
Fandom culture :)
Watched this back and i gotta say all we are missing is a theory on how the once-ler survived in the smog wasteland
Spot on. Another way to look at it is, even if O'Hare, or the Once-ler, had a 'change of heart' and stopped selling their products once they saw the damage it was causing, that wouldn't eliminate the demand for it. Some other person, or company, would simply step up and start producing to fill that demand instead. Nothing would really change.
Except they have as much if not more say in it then the average consumer but they won't make that change cause they'd sooner make the profit yeah you might say another business will rise up to do the same would it not be more eventful if one big business actively displays how the other big business is hiring the economy and not just the lone consumers? If they had a change of heart it would of been a much bigger impact then just an average consumer but again they'd rather aim to gain profit and pride
Let's just but in how great work he puts in the work