Let's start the conversation with this: name your favorite & least favorite thing from Rings of Power S1. I'll start: Fav: Khazad-dûm & the characters/stories there Least Fav: the creation of the rings
fav: nothing. really. there is no figure, no place i like, maybe moria.. least fav: Everything around the elves just feels wrong: disclaimer: i dont care about elves skin color.
@Carlos Green I agree. I was talking about the layout of the island and look of the city. I found the people underwhelming. They reminded me of real people you would find hanging out in 2023 America instead of Tolkien's epic world building. I think the writing could have fixed a lot of this.
@Christine Elizabeth I feel that the numenorean look just don't feel epic. The numenoreans as a race suppose to be tall like super human beings of men. Grand and majestic the pinnacle top of the race of men. When we see the men of Gondor. We should see the fallen remains of the once mighty men of numenor. Peter Jackson captured the essence of the men of Gondor perfectly. This show never made me see the numenorean in a grand and epic way. That is just one of the many problems that i had with the rings of power.
The look of Numenor is just how I would have made it. I love the colors and style. It seems to fit Tolkien's work. I hated just about everything else. The show felt shallow and cheap next to Tolkien's world. Like a twinky being served next to my grandmother's home made chocolate cake.
Celebrimbor is younger than Galadriel; a brash, confident smith, who forges a society of smiths and a massive following... this show gave us a semi-retired art instructor.
Conveniently neglecting to acknowledge that you can say so much more about a person with a book than you can with a movie or TV series. I think you're overstating your point, just for the sake of criticism.
1:00:10 "we instead get Halbrand, fake human dude brought by Galadriel who stumbles his way into the forge and gives Celebrimbor, the greatest smith of the age, the hidden knowledge of aLlOyS" this is gold
@Rafael do Ó He tought him that alloying metals improves their properties. Which is the main reason to alloy metals. It's like telling a cook, that heating some ingredients might be a good thing. He toguht him that putting nickel into iron improves the properties. Funnily enough he portraits it, like iron was rare and nickel is easily obtained, although, at least on earth it is the other way round. Probably in middle earth aswell, as no dwarve talks about his fancy nickel axe. That he uses this to show that he knows how to workaround having little noble metals, just shows how lazy writers were. Iron is by no means a noble metal and it is not even knowledge to know this. everybody knows rust. So no, he did not tell the cook, that hot water exists, but he told him that you can put food in hot water.
Personally i was just really shocked by how psychopathic the hobbits were. Leaving every weak, hurt or old person behind to die? Sentencing whole families to death based on superstition of an all powerful ruler? That was straight horror.
@joshua lyons they are the ancestors of all three types of halfings (but like at least a milenium before, one of which is the stoor, which is what gollum was. and whose ancestors havent done awful things if you go back far enough? some of mine owned slaves. lets just say the species evolved. and maybe the stranger and the harfoots make each other better. It seems like Gandalf, which would explain why he is so enamored of hobbits.
Wouldn't this also show the growth from a harsh nomadic people like when Tolkien described the hobbits "wandering days" We would presumably see the transition to compassionate people who love and care for the land. Possible connection to the Ent wives? As the Ent wives are supposed to have passed the knowledge of agriculture to the hobbits before they disappeared. Don't know if the show will do that, But that could be something.
I don't know - it made sense to me. Nomadic groups would face these kind of challenges, and the show sets out quite early that they are preyed upon by many predatory species.
Especially since the books portray Hobbits as the kindest, most gentle, jovial, though crafty race. There are like 2 evil hobbits in the books, plus the Sackvill-Bagginses who are more annoying and greedy rather than evil.
Ist's the whole galadriel Thing which seems to heavily constructed, aswell as packing the forging of the Rings in the First season. After elrond comes in with the Roll and galadriel says "lets make 3 instead of 2" it should have been over
@Pedro Magalhães Yeah, fair enough. Though I think you and I would both agree that the context they built the story in should be more closely aligned to Tolkien’s work.
I actually saw the show before the movie, and was appalled at how monstrous the harfoots were. I finally saw the movies over the last week and seeing Sam, Merry and Pippen jump in front of orcs, nazguls and Shelob without hesitation to defend each other I understood so much better. Also, I wholly doubt the stranger is a blue wizard because to me it feels like they're eager to abuse the recognizability of known characters rather than allowing unfamiliar characters be extremely crucial.
@Zero Attention Gaming Both of them had 2 names, my guess is to allow Tolkien to flex more linguistics muscles. All of the wizards had at least two names based on the cultures interacting with them. And, Tolkien changed his mind on the blue wizards’ history based on his collected writings.
@Bookywooky guessing you liked such gems like X-men apocalypse, Jaws the revenge, Highlander 2, Robo cop 3….. they were all gems that just got bashed on too right?
I'm the biggest Tolkien fan in my circle of friends who all love fantasy... and I couldn't watch more than the first two episodes. I didn't hate it, I just thought it was boring and it didn't feel at all like the Middle-earth I loved. It was like watching fan fiction.
@Phatty Bolger "Mythology for England" apparently means "mythology for the white people of England" in your view? FYI there are non-white people in England, and were in Tolkien's time, so it's a rather strange argument to make against their positive representation in his mythology.
@Charlie If a Black author wrote what he specifically described as "a Mythology for Africa"- would you then be okay with a multi-billion dollar corporation taking those stories and adapting them with white actors in prominent roles? If you answered yes, you're lying to yourself. Tolkien's Legendarium is a Mythology for England with deep roots in European Mythology. I would simply find the casting strange if it weren't for the fact that this is clearly (as stated by the creators and by the actors ad nauseam) a political move- the LotR and Tolkien community has always been diverse and inclusive, the writers and execs just wanted to do what they thought would get them the most money by pandering to an incredibly vocal political minority by employing what is commonly known as "woke" ideology. And Orcs are not a parallel for dark-skinned people, in fact, in the LotR films, a lot of them were played by white New Zealanders. And the fact you brought up the Haradrim shows that you understand that Tolkien included different races in his world- the races of the West (where the stories are set), being pale-skinned- as they should have been cast in any adaptation. And if you have a problem with the Haradrim being portrayed as villains in the very few stories they are featured- go and read something else, or better yet write something else, instead of advocating it be changed.
During the early seasons of Game of Thrones, the world felt huge. It would take half a season or more sometimes to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing. Later seasons saw characters teleporting around like Rings of Power. It makes the world feel small.
@The Booze Cruiser (Recreational Drunk Driver ) NGL that sounds like you belong at home on the bandwagon of whatever the masses tell you to think. It's ok to try and come up with your own ideas champ. The show is what it is, and yall loved it when you thought everyone else did and dumped it when you heard the right people complain. The opinion of a follower doesn't really mean much in the scheme of things, there's plenty of you lined up behind each other. Sit and spin.
@Maya Orozco Agree about the sets. They were sterile and looked un-lived in and worst of all, generic. Especially the elven cities and southlands. The Harfoots' village was unique though.
Not to mention how small the sets were. You never see 10 elves in the same place. Dwarfs got something like 6 guards (and background generated people). The Southlands have a population of 50 people (with half of them duplicated). Even Numenor which seem to be the most populated does not even seem big while filmed on set when spacing extras around to make it look more populated.
It will never cease to astonish me that we never got to see Galadriel (the show’s main character) use magic in any way the entire first season, unless you count her ability to withstand a volcanic explosion.
Technically, we didn't get to "see" her survive that after. We saw the cloud envelope her and then we saw that she survived. We never got to see how or why.
@Red Elf Shot the Food True. Maybe that was what they intended about her swimming to Middle Earth. That could be her magic showing in the subtle Tolkien way. But again, magic in Middle-Earth is subtle, so I wouldn't expect a High Elf to show it unless absolutely necessary. Finrod, if I remember correctly, seems to have usually fought with a sword. He only had a musical battle when he went up against the most powerful foe he had ever faced. With that in mind, I wouldn't expect Galadriel's power to be too obvious either. But as for Nenya, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Three also channel their wearers' power, correct? I mean, Olórin has nothing in particular to do with fire but Gandalf does, possibly because of his own ring. If so, it is possible, isn't it, that Nenya's power would make her power more obvious?
Interesting point. She has seen the Trees. She should be more powerful in the 2nd age than later as the light gradually dies in the world. Nenya is about preservation. They clearly are likening her to Athena. A warrior goddess. Perhaps her skill at arms and fearlessness in diving into the ocean or climbing cliffs towards enemies is her form of magic revealed. Imagine a 20 something year old woman today doing such things. The average 20 year old (male or female) isn’t able to do such things. Or even contemplate them.
In all fairness, she lacks Nenya at this point, so she shouldn't be quite as powerful. We didn't see Elrond do any obvious magic either, or Gil-Galad, both of whom are very powerful Elves of high lineage. Also, outside of wizards and especially major events, magic in Middle-Earth is very subtle. I mean, I guess maybe she could have had a musical battle with Sauron or something as her brother did. So, even if she did use magic, there is question as to how easily the viewer could pick up on it. There's a reason why some people say that Gandalf seems weak at times-it's not that he actually lacks power (his battle with the Balrog was a clear example) but magic is almost always subtle unless there is a very good reason for it not to be.
My favourite part is the Khazad-dûm story. The mithril origin story drives me bonkers. It seems that the discovery of mithril is recent, despite the fact that the the ship of Eärendil is made from mithril and elven glass in Valinor.
To me, the whole "Commander of the Northern Armies" title actually came across as a joke. Like it wasn't really meant to be taken seriously, despite the show desperately wanting the audience to go "oooh, she's a big general!" Because not only does Eregion seem to have a population of MAYBE 20 people, but you never see ANY military elves other than Galadriel and her little band of soldiers. So my guess was those six guys WERE "the northern armies". Like you have a captain and two soldiers. That's "Northern Army One", and another captain and two soldiers for "Northern Army Two", and Galadriel is in charge of those two "armies". I get that it was during lockdown and you couldn't have hundreds of people all gathered together, but for god's sake, Amazon, you bragged about having a budget of nearly half a billion dollars for this first season. My guess is that they spent around 100 million on CGI, another hundred million on sets and actors, and the other 300 million went to buying positive press and advertising. Because they certainly didn't spend much on costuming. The costumes looked like something you'd find in a bin in the back of a local small town theater. On the topic of the whole "pyroclastic flow", I honestly don't care about the science behind it. What matters to me is what the episode DEPICTS. You have this mass of fire and ash washing over the characters. In the next scene, it shows the village having been DESTROYED by it. These are buildings made out of stone, that the orcs were trying to get into -- even to the point of using a BATTERING RAM -- and couldn't breach, even after HOURS of trying. The eruption demolished the buildings. They were turned into flaming rubble. And NONE of the characters who were in that same spot were even mildly injured. Barely a hair out of place. That's why it was so ludicrous and stupid to me. Not because of the science behind pyroclastic flows, but what the show actually expected you to watch and believe. When a show breaks its own lore or canon from moment to moment, it's a sign of incredibly sloppy writing. Which this show has in spades.
@Nerd of the Rings Well Elrond was Gil-Galads second in command. Galadrial was never a commander or involved in anything military except arguably when she led the white council to cast Sauron out of Dol Guldur, which was mostly a magic thing, not fighting. Its pure "girl boss" fabrication on amazons part that Galadrial was some fierce warrior and general.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The Commander title was definitely an odd one. At least in the FOTR prologue, we *see* Elrond leading an army - even if we aren't told his title going forward. I totally get the eruption criticism too. It's definitely a suspension of disbelief moment that lands really close to borderline and will receive mixed reaction. For better or worse, I just kinda thought - oh, that looked cool and epic and will probably mess some stuff up. haha. I also look back to Tolkien's text where we find that elves are very hard to kill, which gives me some leeway with Galadriel in particular. As for the mortals...definitely more questionable. I think I landed just on the right side of the suspension of disbelief line, but I understand that many folks didn't.
Exactly. People who expect fresh authentic Mexican cuisine from taco bell are going to be disappointed. People who expected a faithful and well made adaptation of Tolkien's world from Amazon were disappointed. I knew "Rings of Power" was gonna be a "crunchwrap supreme". I like crunchwrap supremes. They aren't great. I know it isn't authentic Mexican. I set my expectations EXACTLY where they needed to be in order to enjoy Rings of Power for what it would most likely be, which was a visually compelling show based very loosely on characters and stories that were created by JRR Tolkien.
The retcon of how silmarils, mithril, the trees of valinor, elves all worked just left me kind of speechless with how dumb it was, especially when he pointed out the glaring errors with how: 1. The problem doesn't exist because the Sun has the light of valinor 2. The solution isn't even a solution because the trees are dead
The thing is amazon bought and planned a five, 5 FIVE season show. Their flaw in this is that they seem to have very much so misplanned things how they progress and just completely guttered the first season by planning the greatness of the later seasons and plots thereof
Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas' quest to rescue the Hobbits was SO memorable for me because they really showed the scale of their chase. Even as a kid I felt their desperation and how they were always barely managing to keep up.
A lot of Lord of the Rings works well because of the travel. Not for nothing do people snarkily joke about all the walking (in good humour). Even the Hobbit doesn't do badly with it.
Once again, NOTR’s level of depth, knowledge, and literary and story-telling analysis is just simply off the charts. Combine that with your voice and video production value and you consistently deliver some of the highest quality content - not just on LOTR, but really any subject. Nice work!
No, you REALLY need to watch Just Some Guy's review of each individual episode. He RIPS the show apart. And he's fluent in at least one Elvish language. That is how deep and devoted he is to Tolkien.
When the showrunners don't understand human motivations: tribalism, friendship, self-sacrifice, men and women? When they actively diss the greatest mythmaker of the modern age and attempt to "improve" on his work without doing Tolkien level work themselves? You get a trainwreck.
Totally agree on the point about fans and book and surprises: we have been waiting for this for ages, to see the Second Age on screen, not to be floored by totally new plot twists that we didn't need.
I think The Stranger is going to be Gandalf. The love he has for the Hobbits would tie into the compassion they showed him when he fell from the sky would make sense I guess. Could also be Saruman. I wouldn’t be shocked either way. Also. Amazing video. Such a thorough analysis of the entire season.
It's stumbled a lot, and there were more than a few 'Oh, come on...' moments in it, but the show has actually been a lot better than I expected it to be. I absolutely agree with the summing up of this video, especially with the observation that the redeeming factors of the Hobbit are its big moments and the redeeming factors of the show are the small ones. If the following seasons build on the small 'character' moments and stop trying to shoehorn in the 'mystery box' and 'cliffhanger' elements then perhaps it might get the breathing room for people to realise that the Hobbit didn't do it any better, and that the Jackson Trilogy (as great as it was) was guilty of its own sins.
I just couldn't stop laughing when the hobbits say that their hearts are bigger than their feet, when in fact moments ago they were talking about sabotaging someone's cart, leaving a family behind because the father hurt his leg, making fun of people that died, and expelled the Stranger because his magic broke a tree branch on top of a stupid kid who stayed under the tree while he was performing magic AT THEIR REQUEST. And I also can't forget that Halbrand had to tell the greatest smith in existence about... mixing metals. Jesus Christ...
The parts that made me laugh but for the wrong reason: Galadriel casually swimming back to Middle Earth from Valinor, Galadriel casually stumbling upon Sauron, Isildur's sister getting a guild acceptance letter (sounded like Gilmore Girls), Sauron fistfighting some blacksmiths... Some of the characters are rendered idiotic otherwise the plot couldn't happen, this is why we get a Celebrimbor who's never heard of alloys and migratory hobbits who don't figure out that putting ponies before their carts would make things easier. But to say something nice: I like Elrond and Khazad Dum is beautiful.
One of the high points for me is the song "Where the Shadows Lie" in the closing credits of ep8. Fiona Apple sounds like a more powerful Judy Garland, and the song is just epic. Hopefully it'll become a reoccurring theme. It would be an amazing score for the forging of the one ring! Great review!
Heeey "I am no man" is a great moment! As a little girl I just loved it! And I feel it's necessary for Eowyn as a character to have some weight in the story. Cause we can't explore her character as much as we can in the books. Maybe this moment seems kind of silly for grown-ups watching this movie for the first time, but it still entertaining. I watched trilogy as a kid so I love almost everything about it including "I am no man" moment
When that scene in Númenor was occuring where they were complaining about elves taking their income opportunities away from them, I began laughing so loudly that my wife, who was watching it with me asked what was so funny. All I could think about during that entire scene was the South Park episode where all the townsfolk are complaining about the future people saying "they took our jobs!", because it was practically a carbon copy of that South Park episode.
I’m super unfamiliar with the Tolkien lore and even I thought that whole concept was kinda…. Goofy. I did enjoy the series overall though. I like it better than the hobbit series but not as much as the lord of the rings films.
@Pepe Silvia yep. It just struck me as the script writers attempting political commentary about something that was a hot button issue when they were writing the script, but considering the fact that 5 or 6 years have passed since then due to the length of time needed for rewrites, hiring actors, building sets, filming, and post production, it just feels really out of place and hackney.
I am quite forgiving of the show, but that was a line that made me Facepalm. Especially as, Rowdy Blacksmith (who, yeah was a set up by Pharazon, but still...) does his allegorical speech about taking of jobs but... Two foreign people have turned up on Numenor, one seemed intent on taking his job. The other is the Elf.
Worst part is: there was only ONE elf in the entire island and the whole dispute being settled by the regents was to take the damn elf to the mainland. Incoherent and lazy at best, horrible writing at worst.
Forgot 1 other favorite thing. Adar was pretty cool despite the fact that he doesn't seem to know that "Uruk" literally means "Orc". And his calling out Galadriel was amazing.
I’d also argue that it’s almost 100% sure that the Stranger is Gandalf. His relationship with fire, his prequoting Gandalf (and Bilbo), his connection with Proto-Hobbits, and most of all his musical theme: it’s a directly related motif to Gandalf’s theme in the Hobbit trilogy. It has little to nothing to do with Radagast’s or Saruman’s themes. Remember that this is the same show that takes Gollum’s Song from TTT credits and turns it into the melody for The Verse of the Rings.
You taking about Elrond being the one to visit Numenor instead of Galadriel gave me shivers. So much lost potential! I'll add you to my growing list of youtubers capable of writing a better story than Amazon. :D
Imagine dignifying Rings of Power by not only watching it twice, but giving it a serious review that doesn't shave its balls off with a slow turning grindstone of hate.
@J Mad i was being dramatic tbh and actually enjoyed being in that universe again. i was able to suspend my criticsms and still be immersed in the realm of middle earth once more. it felt cozy to look forward to watch something once a week and see how it played out. looking back, theres so many countless flaws. but i still had fun watching it lol
@John Lenz did you assume that the show was going to be a well made and faithful adaptation of the world created by JRR Tolkien? Because that's the only reason you could have been surprised and disappointed by it. The second I heard Amazon was making a series based on Tolkien's second age I dug a nice deep hole and buried all my expectations. It was never going to be anything but watered down inaccurate swill.
Hope the showrunners listen to your critiques around 1:03:00. There's a difference between creating an adaptation and an original work. (The Oscar's even differentiate this!) I feel like a golden rule that the showrunners missed was "Respect the text." By inserting their own prejudice for what the audience would respond well to and how to deal with acid fans, they diluted a strong story. Great breakdown!
Love your review man its awesome to hear someone who can critique something without bashing it simply because they don't like it. People seem to forget reality has to play a big part in writing just as it does in life, nothing goes the exact same way in life as it does in our heads. People do things that we never would of thought they would, even we ourselves act out of our own character sometimes take roads we know we should never go down. Good does not always do good nor does evil always do evil that's just life. Good writing will reflect that. I feel we take reality out of the picture to much when it comes to books and movies. Like they have to be some type of perfect world where everything goes the way we see it in our heads when that's the furthest thing from the way things actually go in real life, so why in books and movies should it be any different.
Hey, this was an honest and thorough review. Great stuff. Love it when fantasy doesn't need sex/nudity or ridiculous violence to tell a mature story. Feels like they're few and far between.
The Stranger is surely Gandalf right? That line "Always follow your nose"??? Also the early bonding to the Harfoots to explain why Gandlalf believes in Hobbits so much.
I think the hair thing for Elrond is supposed to convey his overall youth. Though that would probably mean Celebrimbor is wearing his hair short as a mid-life crisis thing or something. Lol.
not gonna lie for the first time i actually feel like i might give watching the show a chance, with everything i heard of it being doom and gloom and massacring characters, your analysis has given me some things to look out for in the series
Biggest tell of my feelings toward the show was that I forgot it existed until I saw this video in my recommended feed. My wife and I landed that it was very pretty fanfiction, then promptly forgot about it.
@Nifter71 basically "It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like" or "we just want to use tolkiens work to push our woke agenda"
Yup. Tolkien didn't write any of this. Not one word. So it's just people putting on his coat and walking around in it, trying to mimic him. If they'd moved the entire thing to the imagined far east or far south of Middle Earth with an entirely invented cast, setting and story-line, I'd have given it a look. But this corporate assemblage of modern sensibilities and Trilogy member-berries ('member this?') can take a hike. I just don't care. In fact, I don't want my continued fondness for the books and for Jackson's LOTR trilogy to be infected by this. The Hobbit movie trilogy nearly did that already...
I really enjoy your commentaries. As one who primarily relates to Tolkien through the films, though not only - I keep the Trilogy volume to hand - I appreciate your perspective. Also, just great narration & illustration.
Re: fast travel. Jackson was merely faithful to Tolkien. Tolkien was painstaking about the distances, speeds of travel, passage of time, and even the effect it would have on seasons. Jackson faithfully transmitted that to the screen, but it was already in the DNA of the stories, especially LotR.
Jackson was faithful in Lord of the Rings (sort of), but NOT in The Hobbit which has barely any sense of time and people run all over that map. Legolas can go to Gundabad in an afternoon.
I love how you are so clear about your opinion and that it might be that of the few in some cases and that its not a definition for us but a discussion point and or a agree to disagree situation. Amazing video i loved the execution
I can recite pretty much the entire original trilogy off by heart. I can barely even remember anything that happened in this series and I watched every episode.
@Scepticisme Scientifique Nah, it really is, NotR was too soft on this series in this review. The writing is dog-s__t 80 to 90% of the time. The casting was actually bad, I mean, our MC Galadriel was LAME as heck. She reminded me very much of Captain Marvel with how she was written and how she acts. She has the emotional range of a potato. Anyway, there are also MANY more issues with the characters and them not making any sense at all. But my biggest problem with the series is how this feels NOTHING like Tolkien. This feels like generic fantasy series B. Of course, then there are the sets, the armor and so on, which in many cases are HORRID. Like, worse than in most low-budget movies I have ever seen. The special effects were also... Well, let's just say that there was nothing special about them. As an example, comparing Minas Tirith from the movies to the cities and building here... Well. The movies were released in 2003, and they still look better than this series, and I mean by a LOT. Here the cities just look, kind of like Marvel CG does, OK, but certainly not realistic, and by that I don't mean lighting wise, which can be excused to add atmosphere. I mean, the actual buildings look fake as f__k. And there is a LOT more, the political side of all this is even worse. They made quite a big deal about "the first female dwarf on screen EVER" which is not true, not in Tolkien, and certainly not in general. And then they also played into the race stuff, first black elf, first black dwarf (Which also makes NO sense, since they live underground). And I could keep going, but this is a pretty good point to end it.
Tolkien was the first fantasy I was ever exposed to when I was in 6th grade 40 plus years ago I owe it to hate this show with my whole being. They could of stuck to what was there yet they went down the OP woman power stuff! Galadriel is second powerful and wisest elf ever…show my a minute a second where she is any of that…garbage dumpster fire I stand with Tolkiens memory and will never finish anything this show has to offer!
I watched this 3 movie trilogy probably over 100 times and I know it by heart - I watched this 8 hour season one time and don't remember anything so its bad
I feel like had Elrond gone to Numenor (which honestly is still a possibility in the show) Pharazon would have cooked up some conspiracy to run him off the island saying “he’s here for his brother’s throne” or something like that.
idk if this might sound a lot more crazier, but the way Halbrand or Sauron acted like you know innocent and helpful before you know becoming a baddy in later episodes reminds me of Makima from the anime chainsaw man
I’m soooooooo disappointed the guy playing Adar isn’t coming back, he was my favorite non-dwarf character in the series. Hope he is still the same in S2.
Remember the scene where Lord Elrond sends a battalion of elves to Helm's deep remember the scene they enter Aragorn Rohan people and Rohan king were in awe in compete state of speechlessness and the vibe that elves had and the elven commander who also acted as Darken Rul in the legend of seeker played and acted with a tone of mystery elegance that elves have that is another level that elves entering the keep still makes me have goosebumps when. I watch it occasionally
I think the big thing you didn't mention on the "bad writing" aspect is how this TV show way too much relied on "coincidences" to move the plot along instead of doing a better job of connecting the dots or making why this events happen make more sense. There are a lot, but let me give the top 3: 1) Galadriel deciding to jump ship in the middle of the ocean and low and behold, she encounters Sauron on a raft in the middle of that ocean (WHAT A COINCIDENCE!) 2) The whole Mt. Doom story arc to where it has to be unlocked by a mystical sword, they capture Adar, but no one bothers to check to see if they actually have the sword until hours later so that the tertiary character could make our explosive Mt. Doom scene happen (WHAT A COINCIDENCE!) 3) Halbrand is severely wounded in the 2nd to last episode (off-screen by the way), there's no elvish medicine at this time, but he is able to make a 5 day journey to Eregion on horse by himself (WHAT A COINCIDENCE!)
@Brendan Sousa In The Two Towers, Faramir finds Frodo and Sam because the fire spread to some leaves that just out of luck started to emite some fumes. And, just out of coincidence, just at that time, Faramir was accomplishing some sort of mission in Ithilien. And just out of luck, it turned out that from all Gondor’s captains, Frodo met Faramir who was Boromir’s brother. So Tolkien does this pretty often in his works, claiming it was the will of Eru or some other supernatural force. If you find this good or bad writing, that’s on you.
People like to bring up the fact that Tolkien himself wrote coincidences too but they felt more organic. Like the Council of Elrond for example. It was a chance meeting that members of the Fellowship happened to be there at the same place, at the same time. However, they all had their reasons for arriving at Rivendell. Boromir with the dream he had, the Dwarves being concerned with the visitor at Erebor and so on.
Would I be right in assuming this is more a series for casual fans? Feels like this did to LOTR what the Eragon movie did to the Inheritance cycle If ya haven't read the books the Eragon movie is.... well it's there But if you have....oh gosh
Well… Tolkien is pretty “coincidental” from time to time. Not to defend Rop, but, just to name an example, in the book tfotr, a Nazgul misses Frodo in Hobitton by being meters away from Bag end. I could keep going, but there are way too many coincidences in the whole Lotr trilogy
@Milos Stojanovic I think they read the books, but then wanted to take the parts they liked and then shoe-horn the stuff they wanted into the story: Exhibit A) Let's include the Harfoots even though they played no major role in the 2nd age (oh let's make female versions of Frodo & Sam while we're at it) Exhibit B) Let's have a revenge quest for Galadriel hunting down Sauron, but little does she know, Sauron was with her the whole time without her knowing Exhibit C) Let's make up the origin of Mithril and also let's have it be an ore with magical healing powers too! Exhibit D) While Mt. Doom was created by Morgoth, let's show the creation of Mordor and have Galadriel play a role in that
You really outdid yourself on this review. This was absolutely thought-provoking on the possibilities for next season as well as covering things I didn't catch myself during the series and re-watch. Thank you for taking the time and reflection and doing the best season breakdown & review on this series period. 👍
Honestly, I would have been good if they just did an entire series on Khazad-dûm. While Elrond and Durin IV are a step away from the literature into the realm of creative license, it's the least contrived part of the entire series and it really did feel genuine. (Minus the Balrog, lol.)
This review of yours really resonated with me, in part because you were able to put words into a bunch of my concerns and issues I also have with this first season. But also because your analysis is so level headed and genuinely trying to be fair with all the different aspects of such a giant production I felt like you were left slightly dissatisfied with the season not being able to achieve what it had the potential to, and I agree with that sentiment. It is just so refreshing that you can express it with no need to be hateful and/or estremist. With no need to offend every single person involved in the production out of anger because stuff didn't come out exactly like we were hoping it did
This is absolutely my gripe too about the show. Why change so many major things that made it so good! The show is not a chance to one up the original writer!
what basically this tv series is saying is that galadriel only gained had his majestic and very strong powers because of the ring,not once in the first season she ever used any powers that she learned from melian.the writers of the show either ignored or ignorantly forgot that galadriel was the reason that sauron's army had massive issues and problems invading lothlorien or are they stating that it was the ring of power that protected lothlorien,not galadriel hersefl,who learned so much enchantments and spells from melian during her stay at doriath in the 1st age.so,the tv show already messed up with writing how powerful galadriel is...
Dude, they need to hire you as a consultant. Among all the Tolkien/LOTR channels on KZclip, your production quality, presentation style, and ability to stay on task with the topic at hand stand are the best by far.
A superb and thorough breakdown. Now I can't unsee Father Durin as Yaxley! lol Also, such great observations and reflections on why striking Annatar out is a let down.
Great review, I agree with pretty much all of it! One thing you didn't mention in relation to the whole Halbrand/Sauron fiasco is that, on top of the glaring timing issues for a repentant Sauron, there are so many other things that just don't make sense in the writing with this choice such as: what was Sauron doing on a boat with southlanders so late in the age? how does anything of what Halbrand said in Numenor (as Halbrand) make any sense when thinking of him as Sauron? (he wanted to stay there and be a blacksmith?!). Halbrand made perfect sense as a human character, probably one of the better arcs in the season right up until he turned out to be Sauron, it just doesn't make any sense at all.
I struggled mightily with the way Galadriel was portrayed and the dialogue. When she jumped out of the ship at the end of the first episode I found myself so utterly disappointed I was unable to push play on the second episode so that’s as far as I made it
@Eric42 The trouble, for the show, is that everything else hangs on it. Without Galadriel jumping into the ocean, the equivalent of someone on a passenger liner getting to within sight of the Statue of Liberty then saying "no thanks!" and jumping ship to swim back to England, without that, Galadriel never meets Halbrand on his raft of convenience. And if that never happens, Halbrand never gets taken to Eregion to meet Celebrimbor. And if that never happens Celebrimbor (the greatest elven smith of the age), never gets introduced to the idea of alloys (seriously!) to make the Rings. Now how on earth was Halbrand supposed to engineer any of this? He might be duplicitous, but to engineer that he would have to engineer both Galadriel's suicidal swim attempt _and_ engineer Gil Galad putting her on that ship in the first place. Ridiculous in my opinion.
@Amuro0079 Maybe this, or another more lore-friendly solution would've been to have the boat "get lost" in the Shadowy Seas-- showing that Galadriel was still barred from Valinor. Her ship still could've met with the Numenoreans on the way back to Middle Earth. As it was, the writers had to pull out contrivance after contrivance to make Galadriel survive the journey and it started to feel silly.
My favorite part was Arondir and his story arc. I was really surprised how I enjoyed his performance as a quiet stoic elf. I wish we would have seen more action from him and his commander (less of Theo and his mother). I was really upset that Galadriel showed up and took up the screentime in the final battle, stealing Arondir's thunder. Which leads me to my least favorite which was Galadriel who was just about the least likeable protagonist in a fantasy film I have ever endured. She seemed more like a villain to me and towards the end I honestly wished she just joined Sauron. I also was disappointed in Gil Galad, who really didn't give the sense of a great king of legend, but rather just an arrogant ruler with the right bloodline.
I've long thought that the mystery approach is a crutch for bad writers. Good mystery stories exist, but bad ones exist in abundance and often as a substitute for good storytelling.
@FeelGoodGaming I think I was inoculated against mystery boxes by watching 'Lost'. That show was full of them, most of which were never properly answered. As you say, using them so much is a sign of a very poor writer who can't tell a proper story.
As someone who actually writes murder mysteries for a living, I absolutely agree. Even in the mystery genre, the mystery itself is often less of a point than the characters, motivations, and explanations of that mystery. The point is NOT to surprise the audience. The point is to tell a compelling story in a way that, when the revelations come, they make sense in a satisfying and fulfilling way. "Defying expectations" is as bad an idea in modern storytelling as shaky-cam was in early-2000s action cinema, and for the same reason. It takes the viewer out of the story, disorients them, and leaves them emotionally cold.
That's why Lord Of The Rings is so powerful, in part, because we know, from the get-go, what the good characters must do, from the start, or everything fails.
I remember JJ Abrams tried to tease the same mystery box in his show Alcatraz 2012 at the end of every episode that I kept rolling my eyes and gave up on the show. The most interesting thing that show did before it got canceled was a shot-for-shot remake of the Bullitt Mustang chase through San Francisco.
The mystery approach wasn't even that good... surprise! the one lone competent masculine male character was the Big Bad. Let alone "NotGandalf"... Ugh its just such hack writing. I could care less about the politics if the writers are competent. Sadly the approach had promise and possibilities; however, that's the problem with the entire show, missed opportunities. Thankfully I had House of the Dragon to scratch my fantasy itch then. That show turned out to be surprisingly good.
But Nori says to the Stranger that "you're good." That shows heart to me. That she recognized the Stranger's struggle (am i good or evil) and was sympathetic and encouraging of him, imo not to manipulate him but because she considers him a friend....also I absolutely loved the pro-Hobbits/Harfoots and their crazy style, braiding any random twigs into their hair! ...It seems to me like an alluring representing of what a nascent Hobbit culture might have looked like.
Cruz Córdova. The stress is on the first syllable. You do a masterful job pronouncing languages that don’t exist. This viewer would appreciate the same attention to Spanish. Thank you for a great review and channel. Please keep sharing your talents with us 🙏🏾
Thanks for this wonderful deep dive into your thinking! I quite agree with most of it, and really enjoyed hearing your nuanced and measured takes! Looking forward to more in the future, I‘m excited to see what Season 2 will bring
The stranger is more likely to be Gandalf as this is a very popular character. And most casual viewers know Gandalf's name. Also everyone predicted who Sauron was from the get go. Also he says a line which Gandalf once used - if I remember.
Super well done Matt! I agree whole Heartedly with you. I watched the whole video. Great job! I think you did a fantastic job of Articulating the frustrations and good things that we thought about the show.
As someone who worked on the music team for this show, thanks so much for the shout out! Music rarely gets brought up in reviews of most media even though it plays a pivotal role. Feel free to hit me up if you wanna chat any more about the music of the show.
"I'm by no means a professional critic" Oh please. This video is an incredible showcase of in-depth analysis and critique that one rarely, if ever, sees elsewhere.
I really liked your analysis! I think it's wise to allow different adaptations to have space to tell the story differently and/or change things to fit their medium. And I like that you made mention of so many things you enjoyed. But I also appreciate your insight into that bit at the end, that the producers wanted to keep viewers in mystery. I think that's the big downfall. So many of my friends thought the Stranger was Gandalf for the whole show. And for the whole show, even though I know fairly little about the lore, I thought that was insane. There's no way it could be him, it doesn't make any sense. To learn than confusion was the point shows me the downfall of a TV show as the medium for this story, at the hands of Amazon no less. I actually loved the whole series all the way through, when I thought about it as a standalone story. But when I started scrutinizing the really meaningful moments, it started to crack in unfavorable ways. The lure of making something convoluted just to keep viewers coming back and upping the ratings at premiere... I fear that's going to cheapen a lot of moments that could have been great.
You made a fantastic case for making Elrond the main character and I agree with all criticisms of Galadriel’s character. All the actors made great performances.
Gandalf having meritable reason to love, protect and respect will be important in future seasons. It would also explain more about his character and opinions in the rest of the stories too.
I feel with Sauron the big question that should have been asked in the show is not "Who is he" but "Why are people buying what this guy is selling?" Because as powerful as Morgoth is, its notable that is Sauron who actually needs Eru to directly intervene for him to be defeated and that is largely because he manages to manipulate huge numbers of people into doing his bidding. More generally, I think the show suffers from the problem a lot prequels suffer from which that they treat places and things as more interesting than people - at the end of the day, its not really that interesting how Mordor became a super-exaggerated version of the west Midlands. You could tell a much more interesting story with more less the same structure if you just swapped the Southlands/Mordor for Rhun or Harad (probably the latter as they are more present in the films) and tried to explain why men chose to follow Sauron.
In order to pull that off the writers would have to be actually smart, but it seems they fired the smart ones to keep the ones with more influential friends.
Well this version of Sauron was specifically meant to be unassuming and overlooked as a threat. It was well written i my opinion. I’m sure before long we will see the dark lord we know and love in all his glory
I loved this overview, and it's fairly well reflective of many of my own opinions. Have you stumbled across Welsh composer Paul Corfield Godfrey? He's composed five epic vocal works based on The Silmarillion that I might describe as oratorios. Four have been commercially released by Prima Face Records as "demo" recordings, and I believe a release of the fifth is in the works. I'd love a video or a few in review of them.
Bruh the stranger is Gandalf, they stole his direct quote from Lotr. His whole season 1 arc is shoehorning in why he's so friendly with the hobbins in Lotr (I do like that part). He's going to travel east and meet the blue wizards, who will probably not be cast by white actors, and that's cool. It'll be a cool magical training montage with Gandalf getting taught magic by Alatar & Pallando.
You nailed it! 👏🏻 Funnily enough, when I saw that your review was over 1 hour long, I thought, "Jeebus, there's no way I can get through this!" 1:13:07 later, I thought, "Where did the time fly?!" 😉 Thanks for your insights and very balanced commentary. 👍🏻
Big agree on the stabbing scene and the extreme violence. (I did like Halbrand’s violent scene though) there’s really no place for that in Tolkien. Annatar should have been in it and the tension would have been amazing for book readers and would have been a mystery for new folks. They could have dropped hints along the way and still had it be a mystery. Galadriel could have been sent away because she was suspicious of Annatar. Maybe she works with Elrond behind the scenes to try and uncover the secret, but fails before it’s too late. Skip the weird sorceress ladies that can light fires with their minds….imagine if Sauron had found them first? He woulda won. I did like the idea of a somewhat sympathetic Sauron- or at least a Sauron like Thanos who is totally evil and crazy, but you can ALMOST understand what he’s going for….but the whole “you bind me to the light” thing? H being S definitely made that scene hit harder where he apologizes for Galadriel’s brother’s death. He must have always subconsciously felt guilty about it though, so he branded him with the symbol that would uncover his secret plan to put a sword in a thing and make Mordor. Yikes.
@Pop_aristocraT Yeah Morgoth was set up to fail Illuvatar always knew he gonna turn against him and did nothing to stop it, mostly because he needed to turn for middle earth to even be made in the first place but still >< Had to be a better way then to let the guy fall, also I feel bad for Sauron in a way because Morgoth kinda trick him as well saying he was gonna create or more orderly world which is want he wanted, but Morgoth just wanted everything to burn
I watched this again this morning and I think you did a great job both as a big fan and trying to see it is it’s own story, and your take is fair and very smart.
I love this review, it's so accurate. For me, the scenes with few people in cities/town/villages seems to be ridiculous. We want more people in normally crowded areas. Also like you said, the creation of the ring was a flop. I loved the Durin/Elrond scenes as well and the Orcs/Adar story. They really have to step up in terms of writing, speeches and also add more people in scenes.
Different things worked for different people I think! I liked the angry Galadriel, that seems in keeping with a survivor of the wars of the first age might be like. I don't have much attachment to the character to Galadriel from the third age, so this was just like a depiction of an up and coming firebrand as opposed to the stodgy lords who are in charge. This is very much similar to the heroes/anti-heroes in many other shows that start off with a chip on their shoulder. I don't need her growth to be over in Season 1. probably would have been ok if they made this Galadriel be Celebrian or some other younger elf tbh, but I turn off my lore brain and liked this character the most out of the cast. Elrond was fine, but I don't like how he spent most of his time manipulating the good faith help of his friend Durin, who by the end of the season had lost his title over his help for Elrond and got nothing in return. I felt that Durin and Disa carried that friendship and Elrond was just using them. It did not sit well with me. I agree more scenes of Galadriel saving Elrond would have helped the characterization at the end. I think the series should have been 10 or 12 episodes. Also I like morally ambiguous Sauron. I don't think he needed to be straight up evil when that's not what's in the 2 sentences about him in the actual appendices!
Thanks for the thoughtful review, man. I also needed a few months away from series to see how I really felt about it. At the beginning, since everyone was unfairly and overwhelmingly negative about series, I found myself defending it and enjoying most of it, with expectation that revealing Sauron would be a surprise, and they would nail forging of rings. But when they fumbled ending and was so anticlimactic, rest of flaws really stood out. I still have faith they can make reverse abs make good next season…but definitely worried creators bit of more than they can chew. It’s a difficult job doing what they had to do in only 8 episodes, imagine if they had 12 to flesh it out like Andor…but they need to do better. Some of their ideas I like, and I have hope but that ending really left me feeling sour about it. But still excited to see more.
A very thoughtful video! I agree with pretty much everything you said. To be honest I liked the show but I look at it as more of a fan fiction of Tolkien than a true adaptation, makes it much much more palatable to me haha. I am excited to see where they bring season 2 and can't wait for your future reviews and follow up videos on the show!
With the point about book fans being ahead of the episodes, I find that so silly because as a manga reader, it is an absolute JOY when our books are accurately made into ANIME. It is brought to life with voices, colors, music, and we can SEE the fights and powers (if they have any). I think an accurate adaptation would be the highest compliment. Transitioning to anime, when they are produced with the same art style or an even better one, all we want is the same story just in movement. I can't begin to explain the anticipation that comes from waiting to see a fantastic arc come to life with animation.
@Normis Except for the fact that we have no idea how mithril was made. Adding a little back story is not a problem. Those of us that know Tolkien lore know the difference. For those that don't, it's just a fun little addition that adds to the story. As for mithril and it's part of saving the elves, it's also an interesting way to bring about a story between the elves and dwarves, and the mining of mithril.
Good review, I feel the same way There was a lot that I enjoyed and didn't enjoy in this series, but to say that it was overall bad or the way it's been dismissed has been bothering me quite a bit. My hope is that the show only goes up from there, because I do feel like the show has a lot to offer with a bit more effort in writing
Great video. I think it is a fair review. It goes to show how bad writing can unbalance the scales on a show with real good moments. There is only so much a talented actor on a terrific set can add to a bad line. The "they took our jobs" scene I think hammers home that point.
Let's start the conversation with this: name your favorite & least favorite thing from Rings of Power S1. I'll start:
Fav: Khazad-dûm & the characters/stories there
Least Fav: the creation of the rings
fav: nothing. really. there is no figure, no place i like, maybe moria..
least fav: Everything around the elves just feels wrong: disclaimer: i dont care about elves skin color.
My favorite part was not watching it.
My least favorite part is that it exists.
@Carlos Green I agree. I was talking about the layout of the island and look of the city. I found the people underwhelming. They reminded me of real people you would find hanging out in 2023 America instead of Tolkien's epic world building. I think the writing could have fixed a lot of this.
@Christine Elizabeth I feel that the numenorean look just don't feel epic. The numenoreans as a race suppose to be tall like super human beings of men. Grand and majestic the pinnacle top of the race of men. When we see the men of Gondor. We should see the fallen remains of the once mighty men of numenor. Peter Jackson captured the essence of the men of Gondor perfectly. This show never made me see the numenorean in a grand and epic way. That is just one of the many problems that i had with the rings of power.
The look of Numenor is just how I would have made it. I love the colors and style. It seems to fit Tolkien's work.
I hated just about everything else. The show felt shallow and cheap next to Tolkien's world. Like a twinky being served next to my grandmother's home made chocolate cake.
Celebrimbor is younger than Galadriel; a brash, confident smith, who forges a society of smiths and a massive following... this show gave us a semi-retired art instructor.
Agreed. He looks like he will watch Young Skywalker’s career with great interest.
@Warren Powers Impatient and childish? Reminds me of Feanor.
@CANNABROS Let's get past Season 2 first, haha
Conveniently neglecting to acknowledge that you can say so much more about a person with a book than you can with a movie or TV series.
I think you're overstating your point, just for the sake of criticism.
@CANNABROS Haha, you think the show will get 5 seasons...
1:00:10 "we instead get Halbrand, fake human dude brought by Galadriel who stumbles his way into the forge and gives Celebrimbor, the greatest smith of the age, the hidden knowledge of aLlOyS" this is gold
Yet the dude says NazGALS and MEEthril.
@Rafael do Ó what if you explain it though? It's not like your answers help in any way.
@Floxxoror You definetely didn't understand and maybe have to watch it again.
@Rafael do Ó He tought him that alloying metals improves their properties. Which is the main reason to alloy metals. It's like telling a cook, that heating some ingredients might be a good thing. He toguht him that putting nickel into iron improves the properties. Funnily enough he portraits it, like iron was rare and nickel is easily obtained, although, at least on earth it is the other way round. Probably in middle earth aswell, as no dwarve talks about his fancy nickel axe. That he uses this to show that he knows how to workaround having little noble metals, just shows how lazy writers were. Iron is by no means a noble metal and it is not even knowledge to know this. everybody knows rust.
So no, he did not tell the cook, that hot water exists, but he told him that you can put food in hot water.
Like, solid gold or ... What's that word?
Personally i was just really shocked by how psychopathic the hobbits were. Leaving every weak, hurt or old person behind to die? Sentencing whole families to death based on superstition of an all powerful ruler? That was straight horror.
@joshua lyons they are the ancestors of all three types of halfings (but like at least a milenium before, one of which is the stoor, which is what gollum was. and whose ancestors havent done awful things if you go back far enough? some of mine owned slaves. lets just say the species evolved. and maybe the stranger and the harfoots make each other better. It seems like Gandalf, which would explain why he is so enamored of hobbits.
Those weren't hobbits though lol...
Wouldn't this also show the growth from a harsh nomadic people like when Tolkien described the hobbits "wandering days"
We would presumably see the transition to compassionate people who love and care for the land.
Possible connection to the Ent wives?
As the Ent wives are supposed to have passed the knowledge of agriculture to the hobbits before they disappeared.
Don't know if the show will do that, But that could be something.
I don't know - it made sense to me. Nomadic groups would face these kind of challenges, and the show sets out quite early that they are preyed upon by many predatory species.
Especially since the books portray Hobbits as the kindest, most gentle, jovial, though crafty race. There are like 2 evil hobbits in the books, plus the Sackvill-Bagginses who are more annoying and greedy rather than evil.
Best point made in the video: Elrond should've been the one to go to Numenor based on the kinship connection to Elros
Nooo way celimbror is a dwarven friend. Why so they need elrond for that than?? :/
Ist's the whole galadriel Thing which seems to heavily constructed, aswell as packing the forging of the Rings in the First season. After elrond comes in with the Roll and galadriel says "lets make 3 instead of 2" it should have been over
@Pedro Magalhães Yeah, fair enough. Though I think you and I would both agree that the context they built the story in should be more closely aligned to Tolkien’s work.
@StapleBow 62989 True, that's good. I meant that in the context they built in that story, it made sense the decision of Gil Galad.
@Pedro Magalhães No, Celebrimbor is the friend of dwarves, he should have gotten that plot line.
I actually saw the show before the movie, and was appalled at how monstrous the harfoots were. I finally saw the movies over the last week and seeing Sam, Merry and Pippen jump in front of orcs, nazguls and Shelob without hesitation to defend each other I understood so much better.
Also, I wholly doubt the stranger is a blue wizard because to me it feels like they're eager to abuse the recognizability of known characters rather than allowing unfamiliar characters be extremely crucial.
@ciukmicubisi "Take their wheels and leave them."
@Zero Attention Gaming Both of them had 2 names, my guess is to allow Tolkien to flex more linguistics muscles. All of the wizards had at least two names based on the cultures interacting with them. And, Tolkien changed his mind on the blue wizards’ history based on his collected writings.
@Red Elf Shot the Food The blue wizards were actually given names? That's more attention than I remember them ever getting
@Matthew Well, considering none of those are actually based on any kind of literature, I don't understand what you're trying to say here. 🙄
@Bookywooky guessing you liked such gems like X-men apocalypse, Jaws the revenge, Highlander 2, Robo cop 3….. they were all gems that just got bashed on too right?
I'm the biggest Tolkien fan in my circle of friends who all love fantasy... and I couldn't watch more than the first two episodes. I didn't hate it, I just thought it was boring and it didn't feel at all like the Middle-earth I loved. It was like watching fan fiction.
@Charlie I mean, when I think about English people, I imagine very fair people.
@Phatty Bolger "Mythology for England" apparently means "mythology for the white people of England" in your view? FYI there are non-white people in England, and were in Tolkien's time, so it's a rather strange argument to make against their positive representation in his mythology.
@Charlie If a Black author wrote what he specifically described as "a Mythology for Africa"- would you then be okay with a multi-billion dollar corporation taking those stories and adapting them with white actors in prominent roles? If you answered yes, you're lying to yourself.
Tolkien's Legendarium is a Mythology for England with deep roots in European Mythology. I would simply find the casting strange if it weren't for the fact that this is clearly (as stated by the creators and by the actors ad nauseam) a political move- the LotR and Tolkien community has always been diverse and inclusive, the writers and execs just wanted to do what they thought would get them the most money by pandering to an incredibly vocal political minority by employing what is commonly known as "woke" ideology.
And Orcs are not a parallel for dark-skinned people, in fact, in the LotR films, a lot of them were played by white New Zealanders. And the fact you brought up the Haradrim shows that you understand that Tolkien included different races in his world- the races of the West (where the stories are set), being pale-skinned- as they should have been cast in any adaptation. And if you have a problem with the Haradrim being portrayed as villains in the very few stories they are featured- go and read something else, or better yet write something else, instead of advocating it be changed.
Watching the kind of fan fiction I close after half a chapter
yeah its like a beginner DM who only played D&D decided "lets make a session in Middle Earth"
During the early seasons of Game of Thrones, the world felt huge. It would take half a season or more sometimes to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing. Later seasons saw characters teleporting around like Rings of Power. It makes the world feel small.
I mean the real story takes places over 1000 years so you need to compromise somewhere
@The Booze Cruiser (Recreational Drunk Driver ) NGL that sounds like you belong at home on the bandwagon of whatever the masses tell you to think. It's ok to try and come up with your own ideas champ. The show is what it is, and yall loved it when you thought everyone else did and dumped it when you heard the right people complain. The opinion of a follower doesn't really mean much in the scheme of things, there's plenty of you lined up behind each other. Sit and spin.
@Maya Orozco Agree about the sets. They were sterile and looked un-lived in and worst of all, generic. Especially the elven cities and southlands. The Harfoots' village was unique though.
Not to mention how small the sets were. You never see 10 elves in the same place. Dwarfs got something like 6 guards (and background generated people). The Southlands have a population of 50 people (with half of them duplicated). Even Numenor which seem to be the most populated does not even seem big while filmed on set when spacing extras around to make it look more populated.
It will never cease to astonish me that we never got to see Galadriel (the show’s main character) use magic in any way the entire first season, unless you count her ability to withstand a volcanic explosion.
Technically, we didn't get to "see" her survive that after. We saw the cloud envelope her and then we saw that she survived. We never got to see how or why.
@Red Elf Shot the Food True. Maybe that was what they intended about her swimming to Middle Earth. That could be her magic showing in the subtle Tolkien way.
But again, magic in Middle-Earth is subtle, so I wouldn't expect a High Elf to show it unless absolutely necessary. Finrod, if I remember correctly, seems to have usually fought with a sword. He only had a musical battle when he went up against the most powerful foe he had ever faced. With that in mind, I wouldn't expect Galadriel's power to be too obvious either.
But as for Nenya, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Three also channel their wearers' power, correct? I mean, Olórin has nothing in particular to do with fire but Gandalf does, possibly because of his own ring. If so, it is possible, isn't it, that Nenya's power would make her power more obvious?
Interesting point. She has seen the Trees. She should be more powerful in the 2nd age than later as the light gradually dies in the world. Nenya is about preservation. They clearly are likening her to Athena. A warrior goddess.
Perhaps her skill at arms and fearlessness in diving into the ocean or climbing cliffs towards enemies is her form of magic revealed. Imagine a 20 something year old woman today doing such things. The average 20 year old (male or female) isn’t able to do such things. Or even contemplate them.
@OGRE !!!! yes she is, elves in general are magical, but galadriel is quite special.
In all fairness, she lacks Nenya at this point, so she shouldn't be quite as powerful. We didn't see Elrond do any obvious magic either, or Gil-Galad, both of whom are very powerful Elves of high lineage. Also, outside of wizards and especially major events, magic in Middle-Earth is very subtle. I mean, I guess maybe she could have had a musical battle with Sauron or something as her brother did. So, even if she did use magic, there is question as to how easily the viewer could pick up on it. There's a reason why some people say that Gandalf seems weak at times-it's not that he actually lacks power (his battle with the Balrog was a clear example) but magic is almost always subtle unless there is a very good reason for it not to be.
My favourite part is the Khazad-dûm story. The mithril origin story drives me bonkers. It seems that the discovery of mithril is recent, despite the fact that the the ship of Eärendil is made from mithril and elven glass in Valinor.
I thought the show couldn’t get any worse after Galadriel jumped into the middle of the ocean but the mithril thing drove me insane.
To me, the whole "Commander of the Northern Armies" title actually came across as a joke. Like it wasn't really meant to be taken seriously, despite the show desperately wanting the audience to go "oooh, she's a big general!" Because not only does Eregion seem to have a population of MAYBE 20 people, but you never see ANY military elves other than Galadriel and her little band of soldiers. So my guess was those six guys WERE "the northern armies". Like you have a captain and two soldiers. That's "Northern Army One", and another captain and two soldiers for "Northern Army Two", and Galadriel is in charge of those two "armies".
I get that it was during lockdown and you couldn't have hundreds of people all gathered together, but for god's sake, Amazon, you bragged about having a budget of nearly half a billion dollars for this first season. My guess is that they spent around 100 million on CGI, another hundred million on sets and actors, and the other 300 million went to buying positive press and advertising.
Because they certainly didn't spend much on costuming. The costumes looked like something you'd find in a bin in the back of a local small town theater.
On the topic of the whole "pyroclastic flow", I honestly don't care about the science behind it. What matters to me is what the episode DEPICTS. You have this mass of fire and ash washing over the characters. In the next scene, it shows the village having been DESTROYED by it. These are buildings made out of stone, that the orcs were trying to get into -- even to the point of using a BATTERING RAM -- and couldn't breach, even after HOURS of trying. The eruption demolished the buildings. They were turned into flaming rubble. And NONE of the characters who were in that same spot were even mildly injured. Barely a hair out of place. That's why it was so ludicrous and stupid to me. Not because of the science behind pyroclastic flows, but what the show actually expected you to watch and believe. When a show breaks its own lore or canon from moment to moment, it's a sign of incredibly sloppy writing. Which this show has in spades.
@Nerd of the Rings Well Elrond was Gil-Galads second in command. Galadrial was never a commander or involved in anything military except arguably when she led the white council to cast Sauron out of Dol Guldur, which was mostly a magic thing, not fighting. Its pure "girl boss" fabrication on amazons part that Galadrial was some fierce warrior and general.
this, costumes not as in depth and believable. pretty, but costumes. not real people real world feel of peter jacksons.
Living Anachronism has a fantastic video explaining exactly why the costume design of this show feels so awful: "What Makes Good Costume Design?"
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! The Commander title was definitely an odd one. At least in the FOTR prologue, we *see* Elrond leading an army - even if we aren't told his title going forward.
I totally get the eruption criticism too. It's definitely a suspension of disbelief moment that lands really close to borderline and will receive mixed reaction. For better or worse, I just kinda thought - oh, that looked cool and epic and will probably mess some stuff up. haha. I also look back to Tolkien's text where we find that elves are very hard to kill, which gives me some leeway with Galadriel in particular. As for the mortals...definitely more questionable. I think I landed just on the right side of the suspension of disbelief line, but I understand that many folks didn't.
What this show does with Tolkiens' works, can be likened to what Taco Bell did to Mexican food. Tasty to some, but gives everyone the sh*ts...
I'd say it's more like what "Kay's cooking" did to cuisine in general. She can't cook.
Exactly.
People who expect fresh authentic Mexican cuisine from taco bell are going to be disappointed.
People who expected a faithful and well made adaptation of Tolkien's world from Amazon were disappointed.
I knew "Rings of Power" was gonna be a "crunchwrap supreme". I like crunchwrap supremes. They aren't great. I know it isn't authentic Mexican.
I set my expectations EXACTLY where they needed to be in order to enjoy Rings of Power for what it would most likely be, which was a visually compelling show based very loosely on characters and stories that were created by JRR Tolkien.
Dude you are hitting on a level of critical thinking with this series that producers and decision-makers need but don’t deserve.
The retcon of how silmarils, mithril, the trees of valinor, elves all worked just left me kind of speechless with how dumb it was, especially when he pointed out the glaring errors with how:
1. The problem doesn't exist because the Sun has the light of valinor
2. The solution isn't even a solution because the trees are dead
The thing is amazon bought and planned a five, 5 FIVE season show. Their flaw in this is that they seem to have very much so misplanned things how they progress and just completely guttered the first season by planning the greatness of the later seasons and plots thereof
@S R wtf?
@Red Elf Shot the FoodDon't worry, the next season is directed and written by only women, so that will fix all the issues /s
Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas' quest to rescue the Hobbits was SO memorable for me because they really showed the scale of their chase. Even as a kid I felt their desperation and how they were always barely managing to keep up.
A lot of Lord of the Rings works well because of the travel. Not for nothing do people snarkily joke about all the walking (in good humour). Even the Hobbit doesn't do badly with it.
@Vlad Cirus 3 movies yeah, but back then I didn't think they were long, lol 😂
Comparing the 3 OG movies with the Amazon show is like comparing a five star dinner to a McDonalds meal
@Daily Wire Third Stringer Ah yeah, that scene is the best. Okay, that's one example.
@Ubahnub Yeah I am talking about the "journey" the books take us on,
Once again, NOTR’s level of depth, knowledge, and literary and story-telling analysis is just simply off the charts. Combine that with your voice and video production value and you consistently deliver some of the highest quality content - not just on LOTR, but really any subject. Nice work!
No, you REALLY need to watch Just Some Guy's review of each individual episode. He RIPS the show apart. And he's fluent in at least one Elvish language. That is how deep and devoted he is to Tolkien.
When the showrunners don't understand human motivations: tribalism, friendship, self-sacrifice, men and women? When they actively diss the greatest mythmaker of the modern age and attempt to "improve" on his work without doing Tolkien level work themselves? You get a trainwreck.
Woke Art is an oxymoron.
Bump!
facts
Totally agree on the point about fans and book and surprises: we have been waiting for this for ages, to see the Second Age on screen, not to be floored by totally new plot twists that we didn't need.
I think The Stranger is going to be Gandalf. The love he has for the Hobbits would tie into the compassion they showed him when he fell from the sky would make sense I guess. Could also be Saruman. I wouldn’t be shocked either way.
Also. Amazing video. Such a thorough analysis of the entire season.
It's stumbled a lot, and there were more than a few 'Oh, come on...' moments in it, but the show has actually been a lot better than I expected it to be. I absolutely agree with the summing up of this video, especially with the observation that the redeeming factors of the Hobbit are its big moments and the redeeming factors of the show are the small ones. If the following seasons build on the small 'character' moments and stop trying to shoehorn in the 'mystery box' and 'cliffhanger' elements then perhaps it might get the breathing room for people to realise that the Hobbit didn't do it any better, and that the Jackson Trilogy (as great as it was) was guilty of its own sins.
I just couldn't stop laughing when the hobbits say that their hearts are bigger than their feet, when in fact moments ago they were talking about sabotaging someone's cart, leaving a family behind because the father hurt his leg, making fun of people that died, and expelled the Stranger because his magic broke a tree branch on top of a stupid kid who stayed under the tree while he was performing magic AT THEIR REQUEST.
And I also can't forget that Halbrand had to tell the greatest smith in existence about... mixing metals. Jesus Christ...
The parts that made me laugh but for the wrong reason: Galadriel casually swimming back to Middle Earth from Valinor, Galadriel casually stumbling upon Sauron, Isildur's sister getting a guild acceptance letter (sounded like Gilmore Girls), Sauron fistfighting some blacksmiths...
Some of the characters are rendered idiotic otherwise the plot couldn't happen, this is why we get a Celebrimbor who's never heard of alloys and migratory hobbits who don't figure out that putting ponies before their carts would make things easier.
But to say something nice: I like Elrond and Khazad Dum is beautiful.
This was a fantastic, thorough, and eloquent way of explaining why this show crumbled more as each episode was released.
I liked how cleverly Galadriel hid her Northern Armies that she was commander of so that we didnt see it in the show
I like how they did the orcs in the first few episodes we saw them. Scary and dangerous
One of the high points for me is the song "Where the Shadows Lie" in the closing credits of ep8. Fiona Apple sounds like a more powerful Judy Garland, and the song is just epic. Hopefully it'll become a reoccurring theme. It would be an amazing score for the forging of the one ring! Great review!
Heeey "I am no man" is a great moment! As a little girl I just loved it!
And I feel it's necessary for Eowyn as a character to have some weight in the story. Cause we can't explore her character as much as we can in the books.
Maybe this moment seems kind of silly for grown-ups watching this movie for the first time, but it still entertaining. I watched trilogy as a kid so I love almost everything about it including "I am no man" moment
When that scene in Númenor was occuring where they were complaining about elves taking their income opportunities away from them, I began laughing so loudly that my wife, who was watching it with me asked what was so funny. All I could think about during that entire scene was the South Park episode where all the townsfolk are complaining about the future people saying "they took our jobs!", because it was practically a carbon copy of that South Park episode.
I’m super unfamiliar with the Tolkien lore and even I thought that whole concept was kinda…. Goofy.
I did enjoy the series overall though. I like it better than the hobbit series but not as much as the lord of the rings films.
@Pepe Silvia yep. It just struck me as the script writers attempting political commentary about something that was a hot button issue when they were writing the script, but considering the fact that 5 or 6 years have passed since then due to the length of time needed for rewrites, hiring actors, building sets, filming, and post production, it just feels really out of place and hackney.
That scene might’ve been the most Un-Tolkienian thing I saw on that show. Truly an embarrassment.
I am quite forgiving of the show, but that was a line that made me Facepalm. Especially as, Rowdy Blacksmith (who, yeah was a set up by Pharazon, but still...) does his allegorical speech about taking of jobs but...
Two foreign people have turned up on Numenor, one seemed intent on taking his job. The other is the Elf.
Worst part is: there was only ONE elf in the entire island and the whole dispute being settled by the regents was to take the damn elf to the mainland. Incoherent and lazy at best, horrible writing at worst.
Forgot 1 other favorite thing.
Adar was pretty cool despite the fact that he doesn't seem to know that "Uruk" literally means "Orc".
And his calling out Galadriel was amazing.
Musically & heart wrenching .Nothing will ever come close to Pippins song "All shall fade " Which he wrote and performed .
I’d also argue that it’s almost 100% sure that the Stranger is Gandalf. His relationship with fire, his prequoting Gandalf (and Bilbo), his connection with Proto-Hobbits, and most of all his musical theme: it’s a directly related motif to Gandalf’s theme in the Hobbit trilogy.
It has little to nothing to do with Radagast’s or Saruman’s themes.
Remember that this is the same show that takes Gollum’s Song from TTT credits and turns it into the melody for The Verse of the Rings.
You taking about Elrond being the one to visit Numenor instead of Galadriel gave me shivers. So much lost potential!
I'll add you to my growing list of youtubers capable of writing a better story than Amazon. :D
Imagine dignifying Rings of Power by not only watching it twice, but giving it a serious review that doesn't shave its balls off with a slow turning grindstone of hate.
"Galadriel bounces around like she's in a Middle Earth Pin Ball Machine" made my day.
@J Mad i was being dramatic tbh and actually enjoyed being in that universe again. i was able to suspend my criticsms and still be immersed in the realm of middle earth once more. it felt cozy to look forward to watch something once a week and see how it played out. looking back, theres so many countless flaws. but i still had fun watching it lol
I actually enjoyed watching it, but It was exactly what I was expecting and therefore I wasn't disappointed
@John Lenz did you assume that the show was going to be a well made and faithful adaptation of the world created by JRR Tolkien? Because that's the only reason you could have been surprised and disappointed by it. The second I heard Amazon was making a series based on Tolkien's second age I dug a nice deep hole and buried all my expectations. It was never going to be anything but watered down inaccurate swill.
It’s because there is a tempest in her !!! 😂
@John Lenz Thankfully there was House of the Dragon to wash the bad taste from my palate.
Hope the showrunners listen to your critiques around 1:03:00. There's a difference between creating an adaptation and an original work. (The Oscar's even differentiate this!) I feel like a golden rule that the showrunners missed was "Respect the text." By inserting their own prejudice for what the audience would respond well to and how to deal with acid fans, they diluted a strong story.
Great breakdown!
No hesitation on my part about Bear McCreary's abilities - he composed the fantastic music in the Battlestar Galactica reboot!
The best aspects of the show were the practical orc effects and the fact that it was "only" 8 episodes long.
Love your review man its awesome to hear someone who can critique something without bashing it simply because they don't like it. People seem to forget reality has to play a big part in writing just as it does in life, nothing goes the exact same way in life as it does in our heads. People do things that we never would of thought they would, even we ourselves act out of our own character sometimes take roads we know we should never go down. Good does not always do good nor does evil always do evil that's just life. Good writing will reflect that. I feel we take reality out of the picture to much when it comes to books and movies. Like they have to be some type of perfect world where everything goes the way we see it in our heads when that's the furthest thing from the way things actually go in real life, so why in books and movies should it be any different.
Fun fact: Elves ears are magical and allow them to fast travel across the game map.
"Mithrilchlorian" should be a term. Absolutely nails it.
Too funny .....
Hey, this was an honest and thorough review. Great stuff. Love it when fantasy doesn't need sex/nudity or ridiculous violence to tell a mature story. Feels like they're few and far between.
I loved that could share this world with my kids.
31:49 Elendil's face😂no fear just "uhm, this is a joke yeah?" i cant remember what he actually said but i will remember this as canon now
The Stranger is surely Gandalf right? That line "Always follow your nose"??? Also the early bonding to the Harfoots to explain why Gandlalf believes in Hobbits so much.
I think the hair thing for Elrond is supposed to convey his overall youth.
Though that would probably mean Celebrimbor is wearing his hair short as a mid-life crisis thing or something. Lol.
not gonna lie for the first time i actually feel like i might give watching the show a chance, with everything i heard of it being doom and gloom and massacring characters, your analysis has given me some things to look out for in the series
Biggest tell of my feelings toward the show was that I forgot it existed until I saw this video in my recommended feed. My wife and I landed that it was very pretty fanfiction, then promptly forgot about it.
The best way to see how little impact this series had is that there are no memes about it.
I've read fanfiction better than this show.
@Nifter71 basically "It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like" or "we just want to use tolkiens work to push our woke agenda"
Good way to put it
Yup. Tolkien didn't write any of this. Not one word. So it's just people putting on his coat and walking around in it, trying to mimic him.
If they'd moved the entire thing to the imagined far east or far south of Middle Earth with an entirely invented cast, setting and story-line, I'd have given it a look.
But this corporate assemblage of modern sensibilities and Trilogy member-berries ('member this?') can take a hike. I just don't care. In fact, I don't want my continued fondness for the books and for Jackson's LOTR trilogy to be infected by this. The Hobbit movie trilogy nearly did that already...
I think the stranger is obviously Gandalf based on his follow your nose quote
I really enjoy your commentaries. As one who primarily relates to Tolkien through the films, though not only - I keep the Trilogy volume to hand - I appreciate your perspective. Also, just great narration & illustration.
Re: fast travel. Jackson was merely faithful to Tolkien. Tolkien was painstaking about the distances, speeds of travel, passage of time, and even the effect it would have on seasons. Jackson faithfully transmitted that to the screen, but it was already in the DNA of the stories, especially LotR.
Jackson was faithful in Lord of the Rings (sort of), but NOT in The Hobbit which has barely any sense of time and people run all over that map. Legolas can go to Gundabad in an afternoon.
My favorite part was when the ending credits were rolling
I love how you are so clear about your opinion and that it might be that of the few in some cases and that its not a definition for us but a discussion point and or a agree to disagree situation.
Amazing video i loved the execution
I can recite pretty much the entire original trilogy off by heart.
I can barely even remember anything that happened in this series and I watched every episode.
@Derp good one buddy. Fuckin philistine
@Scepticisme Scientifique Nah, it really is, NotR was too soft on this series in this review.
The writing is dog-s__t 80 to 90% of the time.
The casting was actually bad, I mean, our MC Galadriel was LAME as heck.
She reminded me very much of Captain Marvel with how she was written and how she acts.
She has the emotional range of a potato.
Anyway, there are also MANY more issues with the characters and them not making any sense at all.
But my biggest problem with the series is how this feels NOTHING like Tolkien.
This feels like generic fantasy series B.
Of course, then there are the sets, the armor and so on, which in many cases are HORRID.
Like, worse than in most low-budget movies I have ever seen.
The special effects were also... Well, let's just say that there was nothing special about them.
As an example, comparing Minas Tirith from the movies to the cities and building here...
Well. The movies were released in 2003, and they still look better than this series, and I mean by a LOT.
Here the cities just look, kind of like Marvel CG does, OK, but certainly not realistic,
and by that I don't mean lighting wise, which can be excused to add atmosphere.
I mean, the actual buildings look fake as f__k.
And there is a LOT more, the political side of all this is even worse.
They made quite a big deal about "the first female dwarf on screen EVER" which is not true, not in Tolkien, and certainly not in general.
And then they also played into the race stuff, first black elf, first black dwarf (Which also makes NO sense, since they live underground).
And I could keep going, but this is a pretty good point to end it.
Tolkien was the first fantasy I was ever exposed to when I was in 6th grade 40 plus years ago I owe it to hate this show with my whole being. They could of stuck to what was there yet they went down the OP woman power stuff! Galadriel is second powerful and wisest elf ever…show my a minute a second where she is any of that…garbage dumpster fire I stand with Tolkiens memory and will never finish anything this show has to offer!
I am right there with you. Excited to watch it at first and probably wont watch it again.
I watched this 3 movie trilogy probably over 100 times and I know it by heart - I watched this 8 hour season one time and don't remember anything so its bad
I feel like had Elrond gone to Numenor (which honestly is still a possibility in the show) Pharazon would have cooked up some conspiracy to run him off the island saying “he’s here for his brother’s throne” or something like that.
idk if this might sound a lot more crazier, but the way Halbrand or Sauron acted like you know innocent and helpful before you know becoming a baddy in later episodes reminds me of Makima from the anime chainsaw man
I’m soooooooo disappointed the guy playing Adar isn’t coming back, he was my favorite non-dwarf character in the series. Hope he is still the same in S2.
Remember the scene where Lord Elrond sends a battalion of elves to Helm's deep remember the scene they enter Aragorn Rohan people and Rohan king were in awe in compete state of speechlessness and the vibe that elves had and the elven commander who also acted as Darken Rul in the legend of seeker played and acted with a tone of mystery elegance that elves have that is another level that elves entering the keep still makes me have goosebumps when. I watch it occasionally
never seen this channel before but really enjoying the content that I'm seeing right now. Great balanced criticism imo
I think the big thing you didn't mention on the "bad writing" aspect is how this TV show way too much relied on "coincidences" to move the plot along instead of doing a better job of connecting the dots or making why this events happen make more sense. There are a lot, but let me give the top 3:
1) Galadriel deciding to jump ship in the middle of the ocean and low and behold, she encounters Sauron on a raft in the middle of that ocean (WHAT A COINCIDENCE!)
2) The whole Mt. Doom story arc to where it has to be unlocked by a mystical sword, they capture Adar, but no one bothers to check to see if they actually have the sword until hours later so that the tertiary character could make our explosive Mt. Doom scene happen (WHAT A COINCIDENCE!)
3) Halbrand is severely wounded in the 2nd to last episode (off-screen by the way), there's no elvish medicine at this time, but he is able to make a 5 day journey to Eregion on horse by himself (WHAT A COINCIDENCE!)
@Brendan Sousa In The Two Towers, Faramir finds Frodo and Sam because the fire spread to some leaves that just out of luck started to emite some fumes. And, just out of coincidence, just at that time, Faramir was accomplishing some sort of mission in Ithilien. And just out of luck, it turned out that from all Gondor’s captains, Frodo met Faramir who was Boromir’s brother. So Tolkien does this pretty often in his works, claiming it was the will of Eru or some other supernatural force. If you find this good or bad writing, that’s on you.
People like to bring up the fact that Tolkien himself wrote coincidences too but they felt more organic.
Like the Council of Elrond for example. It was a chance meeting that members of the Fellowship happened to be there at the same place, at the same time. However, they all had their reasons for arriving at Rivendell. Boromir with the dream he had, the Dwarves being concerned with the visitor at Erebor and so on.
Would I be right in assuming this is more a series for casual fans?
Feels like this did to LOTR what the Eragon movie did to the Inheritance cycle
If ya haven't read the books the Eragon movie is.... well it's there
But if you have....oh gosh
Well… Tolkien is pretty “coincidental” from time to time. Not to defend Rop, but, just to name an example, in the book tfotr, a Nazgul misses Frodo in Hobitton by being meters away from Bag end. I could keep going, but there are way too many coincidences in the whole Lotr trilogy
@Milos Stojanovic I think they read the books, but then wanted to take the parts they liked and then shoe-horn the stuff they wanted into the story:
Exhibit A) Let's include the Harfoots even though they played no major role in the 2nd age (oh let's make female versions of Frodo & Sam while we're at it)
Exhibit B) Let's have a revenge quest for Galadriel hunting down Sauron, but little does she know, Sauron was with her the whole time without her knowing
Exhibit C) Let's make up the origin of Mithril and also let's have it be an ore with magical healing powers too!
Exhibit D) While Mt. Doom was created by Morgoth, let's show the creation of Mordor and have Galadriel play a role in that
You really outdid yourself on this review. This was absolutely thought-provoking on the possibilities for next season as well as covering things I didn't catch myself during the series and re-watch. Thank you for taking the time and reflection and doing the best season breakdown & review on this series period. 👍
If Fans and KZcliprs can create better storylines than actual paid writers, I dont know what to say anymore.
Honestly, I would have been good if they just did an entire series on Khazad-dûm. While Elrond and Durin IV are a step away from the literature into the realm of creative license, it's the least contrived part of the entire series and it really did feel genuine. (Minus the Balrog, lol.)
It's the one thing that really doesn't beat on the trilogy outside of that Balrog popping up.
This review of yours really resonated with me, in part because you were able to put words into a bunch of my concerns and issues I also have with this first season.
But also because your analysis is so level headed and genuinely trying to be fair with all the different aspects of such a giant production
I felt like you were left slightly dissatisfied with the season not being able to achieve what it had the potential to, and I agree with that sentiment.
It is just so refreshing that you can express it with no need to be hateful and/or estremist.
With no need to offend every single person involved in the production out of anger because stuff didn't come out exactly like we were hoping it did
They want the box office returns of Peter Jackson's trilogy but don't want you to actually expect them to earn it by delivering a good story.
"Books were treated not as the base on the receipt,but rather the seasoning to be sprinkled in" couldn't said it better myself.
@The Water Warrior Legitimate way to spell recipe is receipt, believe it or not.
Probably my favorite line in the review.
This is absolutely my gripe too about the show. Why change so many major things that made it so good! The show is not a chance to one up the original writer!
And the showrunners even had that quote about always going "back to the books, back to the books". Clearly a complete lie.
what basically this tv series is saying is that galadriel only gained had his majestic and very strong powers because of the ring,not once in the first season she ever used any powers that she learned from melian.the writers of the show either ignored or ignorantly forgot that galadriel was the reason that sauron's army had massive issues and problems invading lothlorien or are they stating that it was the ring of power that protected lothlorien,not galadriel hersefl,who learned so much enchantments and spells from melian during her stay at doriath in the 1st age.so,the tv show already messed up with writing how powerful galadriel is...
Dude, they need to hire you as a consultant. Among all the Tolkien/LOTR channels on KZclip, your production quality, presentation style, and ability to stay on task with the topic at hand stand are the best by far.
They had a more expert and sacked him when he told them the truth their story sucked
They clearly hate the source material so why would they hire someone who would have reverence for it
As long as he stops saying "Eggcetera" or "Exxcetera" when it's clearly spelled Etcetera.
They would purposely avoid him, just like they purposely "didn't connect" with PJ
A superb and thorough breakdown. Now I can't unsee Father Durin as Yaxley! lol Also, such great observations and reflections on why striking Annatar out is a let down.
Great review, I agree with pretty much all of it! One thing you didn't mention in relation to the whole Halbrand/Sauron fiasco is that, on top of the glaring timing issues for a repentant Sauron, there are so many other things that just don't make sense in the writing with this choice such as: what was Sauron doing on a boat with southlanders so late in the age? how does anything of what Halbrand said in Numenor (as Halbrand) make any sense when thinking of him as Sauron? (he wanted to stay there and be a blacksmith?!). Halbrand made perfect sense as a human character, probably one of the better arcs in the season right up until he turned out to be Sauron, it just doesn't make any sense at all.
"The decision to blind Miriel is one I totally didn't see coming"
Pun intended?
I struggled mightily with the way Galadriel was portrayed and the dialogue. When she jumped out of the ship at the end of the first episode I found myself so utterly disappointed I was unable to push play on the second episode so that’s as far as I made it
@Terry Stewart exactly it's really bad writing overall.
@Eric42 The trouble, for the show, is that everything else hangs on it. Without Galadriel jumping into the ocean, the equivalent of someone on a passenger liner getting to within sight of the Statue of Liberty then saying "no thanks!" and jumping ship to swim back to England, without that, Galadriel never meets Halbrand on his raft of convenience. And if that never happens, Halbrand never gets taken to Eregion to meet Celebrimbor. And if that never happens Celebrimbor (the greatest elven smith of the age), never gets introduced to the idea of alloys (seriously!) to make the Rings.
Now how on earth was Halbrand supposed to engineer any of this? He might be duplicitous, but to engineer that he would have to engineer both Galadriel's suicidal swim attempt _and_ engineer Gil Galad putting her on that ship in the first place. Ridiculous in my opinion.
@Amuro0079 Unfortunately the Helcaraxe was sunk along with the rest of Beleriand at the end of the 1st age.
@Amuro0079 Maybe this, or another more lore-friendly solution would've been to have the boat "get lost" in the Shadowy Seas-- showing that Galadriel was still barred from Valinor. Her ship still could've met with the Numenoreans on the way back to Middle Earth. As it was, the writers had to pull out contrivance after contrivance to make Galadriel survive the journey and it started to feel silly.
I'd have been more on board with it if she'd found herself on the ice bridging the two lands. Helcarax, I believe?
My favorite part was Arondir and his story arc. I was really surprised how I enjoyed his performance as a quiet stoic elf. I wish we would have seen more action from him and his commander (less of Theo and his mother). I was really upset that Galadriel showed up and took up the screentime in the final battle, stealing Arondir's thunder.
Which leads me to my least favorite which was Galadriel who was just about the least likeable protagonist in a fantasy film I have ever endured. She seemed more like a villain to me and towards the end I honestly wished she just joined Sauron.
I also was disappointed in Gil Galad, who really didn't give the sense of a great king of legend, but rather just an arrogant ruler with the right bloodline.
Thanks for the insightful review. PS - Despite all its faults, we still enjoyed portions of the ROP and we intend to watch the future episodes.
Fantastic review. The show’s producers better take notes for the upcoming seasons. :)
I don’t know why they haven’t used you as an advisor on the show yet! I think you represent and can carry the fate of us all! 😊
I've long thought that the mystery approach is a crutch for bad writers. Good mystery stories exist, but bad ones exist in abundance and often as a substitute for good storytelling.
@FeelGoodGaming I think I was inoculated against mystery boxes by watching 'Lost'. That show was full of them, most of which were never properly answered. As you say, using them so much is a sign of a very poor writer who can't tell a proper story.
As someone who actually writes murder mysteries for a living, I absolutely agree. Even in the mystery genre, the mystery itself is often less of a point than the characters, motivations, and explanations of that mystery. The point is NOT to surprise the audience. The point is to tell a compelling story in a way that, when the revelations come, they make sense in a satisfying and fulfilling way. "Defying expectations" is as bad an idea in modern storytelling as shaky-cam was in early-2000s action cinema, and for the same reason. It takes the viewer out of the story, disorients them, and leaves them emotionally cold.
That's why Lord Of The Rings is so powerful, in part, because we know, from the get-go, what the good characters must do, from the start, or everything fails.
I remember JJ Abrams tried to tease the same mystery box in his show Alcatraz 2012 at the end of every episode that I kept rolling my eyes and gave up on the show. The most interesting thing that show did before it got canceled was a shot-for-shot remake of the Bullitt Mustang chase through San Francisco.
The mystery approach wasn't even that good... surprise! the one lone competent masculine male character was the Big Bad. Let alone "NotGandalf"... Ugh its just such hack writing. I could care less about the politics if the writers are competent. Sadly the approach had promise and possibilities; however, that's the problem with the entire show, missed opportunities. Thankfully I had House of the Dragon to scratch my fantasy itch then. That show turned out to be surprisingly good.
But Nori says to the Stranger that "you're good." That shows heart to me. That she recognized the Stranger's struggle (am i good or evil) and was sympathetic and encouraging of him, imo not to manipulate him but because she considers him a friend....also I absolutely loved the pro-Hobbits/Harfoots and their crazy style, braiding any random twigs into their hair! ...It seems to me like an alluring representing of what a nascent Hobbit culture might have looked like.
Cruz Córdova.
The stress is on the first syllable.
You do a masterful job pronouncing languages that don’t exist. This viewer would appreciate the same attention to Spanish.
Thank you for a great review and channel. Please keep sharing your talents with us 🙏🏾
Thanks for this wonderful deep dive into your thinking! I quite agree with most of it, and really enjoyed hearing your nuanced and measured takes!
Looking forward to more in the future, I‘m excited to see what Season 2 will bring
The stranger is more likely to be Gandalf as this is a very popular character. And most casual viewers know Gandalf's name. Also everyone predicted who Sauron was from the get go. Also he says a line which Gandalf once used - if I remember.
Super well done Matt! I agree whole Heartedly with you. I watched the whole video. Great job! I think you did a fantastic job of Articulating the frustrations and good things that we thought about the show.
As someone who worked on the music team for this show, thanks so much for the shout out! Music rarely gets brought up in reviews of most media even though it plays a pivotal role. Feel free to hit me up if you wanna chat any more about the music of the show.
Amazing job!
Utterly gorgeous.
You guys did great with music I’m just sorry you were saddled with such garbage. They didn’t deserve you
@Matt Chiesi lol. Okay
1:04:04 - 1:05:05 This whole bit was simply perfect. Well said.
"I'm by no means a professional critic"
Oh please. This video is an incredible showcase of in-depth analysis and critique that one rarely, if ever, sees elsewhere.
I really liked your analysis! I think it's wise to allow different adaptations to have space to tell the story differently and/or change things to fit their medium. And I like that you made mention of so many things you enjoyed. But I also appreciate your insight into that bit at the end, that the producers wanted to keep viewers in mystery. I think that's the big downfall. So many of my friends thought the Stranger was Gandalf for the whole show. And for the whole show, even though I know fairly little about the lore, I thought that was insane. There's no way it could be him, it doesn't make any sense. To learn than confusion was the point shows me the downfall of a TV show as the medium for this story, at the hands of Amazon no less.
I actually loved the whole series all the way through, when I thought about it as a standalone story. But when I started scrutinizing the really meaningful moments, it started to crack in unfavorable ways. The lure of making something convoluted just to keep viewers coming back and upping the ratings at premiere... I fear that's going to cheapen a lot of moments that could have been great.
You made a fantastic case for making Elrond the main character and I agree with all criticisms of Galadriel’s character. All the actors made great performances.
Gandalf having meritable reason to love, protect and respect will be important in future seasons. It would also explain more about his character and opinions in the rest of the stories too.
I feel with Sauron the big question that should have been asked in the show is not "Who is he" but "Why are people buying what this guy is selling?" Because as powerful as Morgoth is, its notable that is Sauron who actually needs Eru to directly intervene for him to be defeated and that is largely because he manages to manipulate huge numbers of people into doing his bidding.
More generally, I think the show suffers from the problem a lot prequels suffer from which that they treat places and things as more interesting than people - at the end of the day, its not really that interesting how Mordor became a super-exaggerated version of the west Midlands. You could tell a much more interesting story with more less the same structure if you just swapped the Southlands/Mordor for Rhun or Harad (probably the latter as they are more present in the films) and tried to explain why men chose to follow Sauron.
In order to pull that off the writers would have to be actually smart, but it seems they fired the smart ones to keep the ones with more influential friends.
You don't understand Tolkien lore.
The show suffers from not being Tolkein.
As a West Midlander I should also point out that much of middle earth is based on it’s beautiful surrounding shire such as Worcestershire
Well this version of Sauron was specifically meant to be unassuming and overlooked as a threat. It was well written i my opinion. I’m sure before long we will see the dark lord we know and love in all his glory
I loved this overview, and it's fairly well reflective of many of my own opinions.
Have you stumbled across Welsh composer Paul Corfield Godfrey? He's composed five epic vocal works based on The Silmarillion that I might describe as oratorios. Four have been commercially released by Prima Face Records as "demo" recordings, and I believe a release of the fifth is in the works. I'd love a video or a few in review of them.
Bruh the stranger is Gandalf, they stole his direct quote from Lotr. His whole season 1 arc is shoehorning in why he's so friendly with the hobbins in Lotr (I do like that part). He's going to travel east and meet the blue wizards, who will probably not be cast by white actors, and that's cool. It'll be a cool magical training montage with Gandalf getting taught magic by Alatar & Pallando.
You nailed it! 👏🏻 Funnily enough, when I saw that your review was over 1 hour long, I thought, "Jeebus, there's no way I can get through this!" 1:13:07 later, I thought, "Where did the time fly?!" 😉 Thanks for your insights and very balanced commentary. 👍🏻
Big agree on the stabbing scene and the extreme violence. (I did like Halbrand’s violent scene though) there’s really no place for that in Tolkien.
Annatar should have been in it and the tension would have been amazing for book readers and would have been a mystery for new folks. They could have dropped hints along the way and still had it be a mystery. Galadriel could have been sent away because she was suspicious of Annatar. Maybe she works with Elrond behind the scenes to try and uncover the secret, but fails before it’s too late.
Skip the weird sorceress ladies that can light fires with their minds….imagine if Sauron had found them first? He woulda won.
I did like the idea of a somewhat sympathetic Sauron- or at least a Sauron like Thanos who is totally evil and crazy, but you can ALMOST understand what he’s going for….but the whole “you bind me to the light” thing?
H being S definitely made that scene hit harder where he apologizes for Galadriel’s brother’s death. He must have always subconsciously felt guilty about it though, so he branded him with the symbol that would uncover his secret plan to put a sword in a thing and make Mordor. Yikes.
Im surprised how much you’re reactions echoes my own. Especially in light of the mystery boxes. Thanks for doing the leg work.
When Adar talks about the orcs having their own realm, I really started to root for them.
@Faladrin Hm, interesting take. I hadn't thought of it that way
@WarlordofBritannia great reference to the old movie 👍
Yeah. Orcs are like Jews.
@Pop_aristocraT Yeah Morgoth was set up to fail Illuvatar always knew he gonna turn against him and did nothing to stop it, mostly because he needed to turn for middle earth to even be made in the first place but still >< Had to be a better way then to let the guy fall, also I feel bad for Sauron in a way because Morgoth kinda trick him as well saying he was gonna create or more orderly world which is want he wanted, but Morgoth just wanted everything to burn
I watched this again this morning and I think you did a great job both as a big fan and trying to see it is it’s own story, and your take is fair and very smart.
I love this review, it's so accurate.
For me, the scenes with few people in cities/town/villages seems to be ridiculous. We want more people in normally crowded areas. Also like you said, the creation of the ring was a flop.
I loved the Durin/Elrond scenes as well and the Orcs/Adar story.
They really have to step up in terms of writing, speeches and also add more people in scenes.
Different things worked for different people I think! I liked the angry Galadriel, that seems in keeping with a survivor of the wars of the first age might be like. I don't have much attachment to the character to Galadriel from the third age, so this was just like a depiction of an up and coming firebrand as opposed to the stodgy lords who are in charge. This is very much similar to the heroes/anti-heroes in many other shows that start off with a chip on their shoulder. I don't need her growth to be over in Season 1. probably would have been ok if they made this Galadriel be Celebrian or some other younger elf tbh, but I turn off my lore brain and liked this character the most out of the cast.
Elrond was fine, but I don't like how he spent most of his time manipulating the good faith help of his friend Durin, who by the end of the season had lost his title over his help for Elrond and got nothing in return. I felt that Durin and Disa carried that friendship and Elrond was just using them. It did not sit well with me.
I agree more scenes of Galadriel saving Elrond would have helped the characterization at the end. I think the series should have been 10 or 12 episodes.
Also I like morally ambiguous Sauron. I don't think he needed to be straight up evil when that's not what's in the 2 sentences about him in the actual appendices!
Thanks for the thoughtful review, man. I also needed a few months away from series to see how I really felt about it. At the beginning, since everyone was unfairly and overwhelmingly negative about series, I found myself defending it and enjoying most of it, with expectation that revealing Sauron would be a surprise, and they would nail forging of rings. But when they fumbled ending and was so anticlimactic, rest of flaws really stood out. I still have faith they can make reverse abs make good next season…but definitely worried creators bit of more than they can chew. It’s a difficult job doing what they had to do in only 8 episodes, imagine if they had 12 to flesh it out like Andor…but they need to do better. Some of their ideas I like, and I have hope but that ending really left me feeling sour about it. But still excited to see more.
A very thoughtful video! I agree with pretty much everything you said. To be honest I liked the show but I look at it as more of a fan fiction of Tolkien than a true adaptation, makes it much much more palatable to me haha. I am excited to see where they bring season 2 and can't wait for your future reviews and follow up videos on the show!
With the point about book fans being ahead of the episodes, I find that so silly because as a manga reader, it is an absolute JOY when our books are accurately made into ANIME. It is brought to life with voices, colors, music, and we can SEE the fights and powers (if they have any). I think an accurate adaptation would be the highest compliment. Transitioning to anime, when they are produced with the same art style or an even better one, all we want is the same story just in movement. I can't begin to explain the anticipation that comes from waiting to see a fantastic arc come to life with animation.
@Normis Except for the fact that we have no idea how mithril was made. Adding a little back story is not a problem. Those of us that know Tolkien lore know the difference. For those that don't, it's just a fun little addition that adds to the story. As for mithril and it's part of saving the elves, it's also an interesting way to bring about a story between the elves and dwarves, and the mining of mithril.
@Bookywooky well, definitely the magic mithril is borderline sacrilege, but nothing else tbh
@Normis Nooooo, I'm asking you what you think is sacrilege in the show. Just answer the simple question.
@Bookywooky it depends on how much of a purist you are
@Normis what deviations are sacrilege, then?
Good review, I feel the same way
There was a lot that I enjoyed and didn't enjoy in this series, but to say that it was overall bad or the way it's been dismissed has been bothering me quite a bit. My hope is that the show only goes up from there, because I do feel like the show has a lot to offer with a bit more effort in writing
I sure hope the show runners take this review into account for the next seasons! There is still time to save the series.
Great video. I think it is a fair review. It goes to show how bad writing can unbalance the scales on a show with real good moments. There is only so much a talented actor on a terrific set can add to a bad line. The "they took our jobs" scene I think hammers home that point.