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Villain Therapy: KILLMONGER from BLACK PANTHER with guest Stacey Harkey


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  • Film Toppings
    Film Toppings 4 ай бұрын +7948

    Can we take another minute to acknowledge Michael B. Jordan's performance as Killmonger? He delivered all the rage and pain so well, not to mention we're used to him being more kind and likable.

    • TheMeloettaful
      TheMeloettaful 4 күн бұрын

      @Liz Williams that's why I said they probably would have thrown him in prison for a long time and Erik knew that. Though I'd like to imagine T'Challa somehow would have liked to give his cousin a second chance somewhere down the line.
      Maybe out of guilt for how his father killed his Erik's dad and abandoned him to whatever fate awaited him. Though I imagine if that were the case the council would have fought T'Challa tooth & nail to keep Erik in prison 🤔.
      Overall what Erik tried to do wasn't right, but it still makes me sad. And forever wonder if all of that chaos could have been prevented had they just brought him back to Wakanda to begin with 😔.

    • TheMeloettaful
      TheMeloettaful 4 күн бұрын

      @MIDNIGHT EYE omg I probably would have watched more Power Rangers if Killmonger was a Ranger himself lol 😆💕!

    • Liz Williams
      Liz Williams 4 күн бұрын

      @TheMeloettaful I think he was wrong - and there’s no way he would have expected anything else. They killed his father and abandoned him. Why would he expect decent treatment?

    • Liz Williams
      Liz Williams 4 күн бұрын

      @darkecofreak23 I never realized that fear motivation for destroying the herb. I thought it was just about making it inaccessible to anyone else. No doubt it was both; your observation adds a lot of context.

  • Angy M
    Angy M 4 ай бұрын +1642

    Fun fact : the "hey auntie" line was improvised by Michael B. Jordan.
    Also lately i saw an interview of Tenoch Huerta (Namor in Wakanda Forever) where he explained he asked to add some stuff to make Talocanil culture more authentic, and with an identity as strong as Wakanda. So Ryan Coogler definitely gives some freedom to his actors and he listens to them.

    • Quick Games
      Quick Games 2 ай бұрын +7

      I kinda feel that the whole "we give you reign to add stuff to the script" is kind of a "must have" in the MCU for writers and directors, again to a certain dregree cause otherwise the films could double in length, like the "why is gamora" line in infinity war

    • darkfalcon9
      darkfalcon9 3 ай бұрын +6

      Yep I knew that about the "hey auntie" line 😏

    • Hawk
      Hawk 3 ай бұрын +2

      @jascinth williams Then he was hand cuffed for Wakanda Forever.

    • soaringaegis
      soaringaegis 3 ай бұрын +49

      This is what I wanted from ShangChi and didn't get, sadly. But it just goes to show how brilliant and special Ryan Coogler's guiding hand is.

    • jascinth williams
      jascinth williams 3 ай бұрын +92

      Yeah, I think the Latino actors wanted their own symbol representing Talokan culture, and Coogler said sure. Hence the Talokan Rising cupped hand thing they do. Coogler seems to be a really collaborative director, one who listens to his actors and tries to accommodate them.

  • Mariel Angela Velasquez
    Mariel Angela Velasquez 4 ай бұрын +1049

    SPOILERS AHEAD (read at your own risk): It's interesting how in the 2nd movie, Killmonger acknowledged that T'challa was the "noble" one. He can accept when he is wrong and actually do something to change. And it was very comforting that Shuri's character development was very much like her brother's. Angry and resentful at first but still chose compassion in the end. You are missed, Chadwick.

    • TheJester
      TheJester 4 күн бұрын

      She also had a parallel moment with Namor that I absolutely loved. He expected to die just like Zemo and she said something similar to what her brother said to Zemo. T'Challa: "Vengence has consumed you, it is consuming them, and I'm done letting it consume me..." line. Shuri: "Vengence has consumed us, we cannot let it consume our people."

    • yadig
      yadig Ай бұрын +1

      glad i didnt watch the second one lol

    • M A.
      M A. 3 ай бұрын +13

      @Du blanc de dinde part of what made black Panther so good was that the protagonist and antagonist had good points. And the protagonist learns from the antagonist and moves forward with a plan that takes it into account and reaches a middle ground that could satisfy both. It’s also part of why he likely wanted Killmonger to live by the end, he didn’t see him as a 100% bad guy, and there’s blood on both their hands from direct and indirect action.

    • Du blanc de dinde
      Du blanc de dinde 3 ай бұрын +12

      @Shalakor which is what i like a lot about this black panther! the world isn't really black and white. no one really is the villain, both of them have very valid reasons to explain their actions and views.
      a lot of movies fall into this trap of making everything one-sided, like "this one is the good guy, and this one is the bad guy", without doing any nuances. and that's extremely unrealistic. even though i do love me some true villainess, i love it more when i find myself identifying with the character depicted as villain, making me question my morals and values as a person. and especially when their pont of view turns out to be right. which raises the universal question, should ends justify the means? if world peace ever got to be achieved, but with violence along the way, is it the only right way?
      (btw your comment is so beautifully written. if you ever release a book i wanna be the first one to know😭)

    • Shalakor
      Shalakor 3 ай бұрын +11

      @Du blanc de dinde On the other hand, good saving the day is a purely hypothetical concept that only exists in fiction. War and conflict has always and only been what has shaped all of recorded history, no matter how much we wish it weren't true. I mean, sometimes a given group will win in the long run by losing, so it's not entirely "history is written by the victors" but bloodshed is always long reaching an sacrifice and compromise are always short lived influences, very literally. Humanity is fundamentally flawed, and life is all about making due with that fact. Kindness is still a virtue, but it is at the same time still a luxury as well. Doing the right thing will always be uphill against the wrong thing coasting downhill. The struggle is laudable, but it's a zero sum game that just staves off further ruin, never fixing more than what's being broken.

  • Vulpes
    Vulpes 4 ай бұрын +853

    As an archaeologist, my favourite line from Black Panther is precisely from Killmonger during his first scene: Britain DID plundered other nations and they carry on like nothing happened.

    • Guinea Pig Everyday
      Guinea Pig Everyday 3 күн бұрын

      @NourishingLotionif ur gonna make a case make a good argument. No one knows what burned the Library of Alexandria, and the Romans absolutely didn’t burn it on purpose, they were fucking obsessed with that city.

    • Guinea Pig Everyday
      Guinea Pig Everyday 3 күн бұрын

      @ESP Studiosok that is not comparable to colonial stolen art. Greece literally agreed and sold the parthenon pieces to Britain because they were under siege from the Ottomans. The parthenon LITERALLY got blown up. Not comparable to the items stolen by colonial looting.

    • Night Raven
      Night Raven 8 күн бұрын

      @Samuel Praneeth Blaming is by definition what you are doing. Holding people responsibility for things they had literally no part in. Regardless of if they benifits from it today that has nothing to do with them. The third world is being oppressed by poverty more than outside governments. You make it sound like colonialism is some great crime when its not. Colonialism is the natural oder of things. Honestly its a good thing even when you look at most of the countries thats have been colonized and are now prospering. All your doing is trying to single out a certain group of people from a certain time period to try and shift blame to them for the failings of others. Its this kind of mind set that has put country's and people behind, this victimized zero agency mentality.

    • RBGGaming
      RBGGaming 11 күн бұрын

      All those 🇪🇺 nations do 😭😭😭

  • ruthlys
    ruthlys 3 ай бұрын +254

    “Death is better than bondage” 😢
    I wish i could see my ancestors face to face. The ones who chose life despite its horrible tragedies. Because they chose life- i am here. My family are all here because those before us chose life. Then one day my great great grandfather walked off a plantation and started a free life. And i am so grateful to all of them.

    • Not Kaelin
      Not Kaelin 2 ай бұрын +19

      100% i am grateful to those who survived and also acknowledge and celebrate those who rebelled against the institution of slavery by laying down their lives - whether through personal or external measures.

    • Tasha
      Tasha 2 ай бұрын +23

      Actually, we are here because of both. Many movements took people willing to die for those who lived to benefit.

  • Curator
    Curator 4 ай бұрын +449

    Freaking Michael B. Jordon worked this SO HARD on so many levels. I love the fact that he had a hand in the costume design being like Vegeta, and oppressed anti-hero in anime.

    • Emily Krabill
      Emily Krabill Ай бұрын

      In general; I've always been obsessed with the ideology of anti- heroism. How anyone can be a hero despite the stereotypical aspect of what a hero is supposed to look like. But not specifically geared towards anime. Animated vs live action vs tv shows vs movies. Anti heroes can be heroes with flaws/faults or the villain that you root for in a story that can act like a hero without intentionally trying to; just overall acting like a good person.

    • day crow
      day crow Ай бұрын

      @Lysander xX They were enslaved by frezia who destroyed them right before the rebellion

    • DrippyEyez
      DrippyEyez Ай бұрын +1

      @Beanie Guitar Guy don’t worry, only the ones written by Akira Toriyama are the ones you need to pay attention to 😂

    • Beanie Guitar Guy
      Beanie Guitar Guy 2 ай бұрын +4

      @vang-tou Lee Today I learned that there’s more than one Dragon Ball 😭

    • vang-tou Lee
      vang-tou Lee 2 ай бұрын +5

      @Beanie Guitar Guy thats from super, and future trunks says that line LMAO.

  • Taryn M
    Taryn M 4 ай бұрын +3503

    As a black person born into a position of relative privilege, I actually related more naturally with T'challa. I found it so powerful to watch a mainstream movie in which black people weren't just painted as victims, but characters with agency and responsibility like everyone else. Was blown away by the complex themes and acknowledgement that not all black people have this natural affinity for all other blacks. Some of us have to learn and grow in order to stop hoarding what privilege and power we have.

    • Art Vein
      Art Vein 22 күн бұрын

      @MissC. S. this is the comment that lays the land out well. It's about identity. What Coogler emphasized was identity differences in the African and the African American. Much in the way identity differs between a Cuban and a Nicaraguan in American. Although they are part of the Latin diaspora, their cultures are very different in everything from politics to customs, but lumped together in America by external sources that only account for what someone looks like. Even within the African and African American communities in areas like Columbus, Ohio, remain segregated and known for cultural violence. Coogler not only demonstrated an authentic depiction of this internal struggle but also the external struggle within the context of America. Coogler himself, after winning multiple awards for this film, was placed at gunpoint and handcuffed for attempted robbery of his own bank account. No one spoke up for him, in fact he was only released after they looked him up on their phones on camera and called the studio (all on bodycam). He wasn't Ryan Coogler Marvel Director that day, he was just another suspicious negro. I imagine the culture shock of an African in America would be life-changing and any apparatus to distinctly delineate one from the African American experience would be a logically sound strategy for survival. That's what exists at the heart of this movie. Killmonger was blood, he was family subjected to the confines of America. His alignment with American govt training created a fake conflict which is the weakest logic in the film. In reality, when Killmonger entered the stage and introduced himself T'Challa could've cleared the room and talked to him. There was no real conflict. They wanted the same exact thing and had two alternate ideologies of obtaining that goal, highly reminiscent of Booker T Washington & WEB Dubois, or Malcolm X and MLK. Too often times we must publicly appear fragmented as a people, when in fact behind the scenes we are working together. Malcolm and MLK were friends and they met many times both coming closer to the other's ideology before assassination. Same with Dubois and Washington, Dubois said after Washington's death that he regretted publicly challenging him in the way he did, because in many ways he was right. Thusly, the only reason Coogler's film was greenlit was to perpetuate the pervasive notion that the #1 enemy of the Black diaspora is divergent thought, revolution is wrong, and deniable plausibility/civility is rewarded. Not to mention Black Panther himself is passed on. Unfortunately, this movie despite it's great reception is a psyop. Killmonger wasn't a villain and T'Challa wasn't the hero, indicated by T'Challa's actions at the end of the film. The villain was America, Africa and the African diaspora lost because they destroyed one another and not the enemy. Marvel continued the bs and extrapolated the enemy to other POC in the sequel. All of this was calculated folks.

    • Ash Howell
      Ash Howell Ай бұрын

      @Paul T Sjordal People have flaws, and any movie that has an antagonist or protagonist without flaws is boring.

    • Kat Atonic
      Kat Atonic 2 ай бұрын

      @kiiw wi true

  • Jade Divine
    Jade Divine 4 ай бұрын +295

    I took a class my second semester in college and we ended up talking about how similar T'challa and Killmonger were. They both lost their father because of murder and while T'challa wanted justice for his father he didn't want revenge while Killmonger believed justice was revenge

    • Butterfly Mage
      Butterfly Mage 3 ай бұрын +41

      Nah, t’challa wanted revenge hard in civil war. It took that whole movie for him to learn one of the major themes of that movie.
      The key difference was one lost their further as a child, the other as a grown man. Different impact and the lessons stick harder to one then the other, good or bad.

    • dahjia t.
      dahjia t. 4 ай бұрын +27

      key difference is that t’challa grew up in wakanda while killmonger did not. t’challa has no connection to anyone else outside of wakanda so he sees no need to help them, but killmonger does.

  • Ryan
    Ryan 3 ай бұрын +111

    In the first movie it was so interesting learning that T'Chaka was not a "good man". Leaving your brother's body for your nephew to find is one of the most evil things I've seen in a Marvel movie. T'Chaka passed the belief of only protecting and leading Wakandans to T'Challa but left an innocent Wakandan to fend for himself. He claimed to have "chosen his people" which to me seems like he deemed Erik as not Wakandan enough and its backed up by the Queen saying "he has no rights here"

    • MrBrock314
      MrBrock314 2 ай бұрын +8

      I'm not sure evil is the right way to describe that. Thoughtless or uncaring or distracted perhaps but that's not the same as evil.

    • Aliah Personous
      Aliah Personous 3 ай бұрын +8

      Erik isn’t Wakandan enough though.
      His mom is American, he is an intelligence operative, he is a soldier who kills a lot, has no respect or care for Wakanda or it’s traditions,
      And his dad was a traitor to the state, or however you call it, and did attempt to kill Zuri.
      I don’t feel like Erik would realistically have any rights in Wakanda as a citizen or member of the ruling family.

    • Mali Rabbit
      Mali Rabbit 3 ай бұрын +17

      She had to say that because she sees Erik as a threat to HER sons rise to power.

  • Radish
    Radish 4 ай бұрын +235

    Sterling K. Brown had such a small role in the movie but he killed it. He really does elevate everything he's in.

  • Nabinawaz Khan
    Nabinawaz Khan 3 ай бұрын +362

    Pleasee do a video on zuko from avatar. his Redemption arc is so amazingly done and the animation style is sooo beautiful. i would love to see you guys talk about avatar

    • RockClimbing GIRLS2
      RockClimbing GIRLS2 Ай бұрын +1

      @RPG incorporated movie? there is no movie in ba sing se

    • Chubbs
      Chubbs Ай бұрын


    • ParkityParkPark
      ParkityParkPark Ай бұрын

      @Baldorian City was just about to say this. So sad, and maybe just maybe some day it can happen, but I'm not holding my breath. I think they said it takes them something like 7+ hours of preparation before shooting for a movie episode, can't imagine how much time they'd have to put into AtLA.

    • Penney Sound
      Penney Sound 2 ай бұрын +1

      A video about Zuko wouldn't be a Villain Therapy episode.

    • Vianey Boruel
      Vianey Boruel 2 ай бұрын

      Episode by episode would work

  • Ciara Armstrong
    Ciara Armstrong 4 ай бұрын +365

    "The Fall from Grace " is what I call T'challa standing up to his father scene and it is my most favorite scene. I absolutely love the juxtaposition from the first time T'challa goes to the sprite world, when it is at nighttime and it all mystical and T'challa is happy to see his dad and make him proud. Verse after Kilmonger has told him what his father has done, and now he is back in the spirt world. This time it's day time the mystical aspect is gone, because his eye are open he see's what his father has done and is off the superhero pedestal T'challa has put his father on his entire life. T'challa finally sees the flawed man his father was and the history and politics that lead his father to make those decision. It's truly a devastating moment to have your idol fall from grace espeacially your father.

    • Daniel Land
      Daniel Land 3 ай бұрын +4

      Thank you for acknowledging something that everyone in the African American community seems to loose sight of in the moment

    • Squeeky Squid
      Squeeky Squid 4 ай бұрын +28

      For a lot of children it's harrowing realizing your parents aren't these infallible superheroes.

  • The Hope of Eden
    The Hope of Eden 4 ай бұрын +5075

    I feel like saying “Killmonger was right” simplifies the issue. Shuri and Nakia are right because they are the characters who start this movie already knowing the correct thing to do and operating from a place of love and healing. Hell, Shuri states the theme in her first scene. “Just because something works does not mean it cannot be improved.”
    Killmonger is almost there but he is operating from a place of hate and supremacy. He _literally advocates for killing children._ But that doesn’t make him unsympathetic, which is a key to why this movie is so amazing.
    Having black characters this complexly written is a landmark.
    Rest In Peace, Chadwick Boseman, I cannot wait for the sequel.

    • MrBrock314
      MrBrock314 2 ай бұрын

      @SilverSerpent64 Sometimes - it's not always true.

    • mlp_Firewind
      mlp_Firewind 2 ай бұрын +1

      I feel like killmonger is “right” insofar as he thinks oppression is bad, and there is a burden of responsibilities of people in power to try to oppose oppression. But that’s not a very hot take. Meanwhile he has killed innocent people and wants to kill more. I think the most letting thing about him is when he says all the things he did was to kill T’chala. It was never really about helping black people, or changing the world. It was about avenging his father, no, taking how the anger of his fathers death on anyone he could.

    • Noory Korky
      Noory Korky 3 ай бұрын

      @SilverSerpent64 He was so right about museums...

    • mira
      mira 3 ай бұрын

      I agree with you 👏🏼

  • Stacey Smith
    Stacey Smith 3 ай бұрын +89

    Something that stabbed me right through the heart was when Killmonger said: "...kill those in power, and their children..." Because he's so consumed with grief and hatred for the murder of his father he has no idea he would be condemning hundreds, if not thousands of children to the same pain he's suffering.

    • Daniel Land
      Daniel Land 3 ай бұрын +3

      @ExeErdna I 💯 agree and their is even a panel in comics where King Solomon's Frogs saw a possible future where after awhile Wakanda did extend is help beyond its borders and did exactly what they should have done.
      The world was at peace (relatively) and they basically ruled the world in a cool manner.
      They had dummy corporations and political & military power to not be unmatched.
      I'm not sure of the issue tho

  • Hannah Stewart
    Hannah Stewart 4 ай бұрын +50

    As a First Nations person of So-Called-Canada..a LOT of things in this movie resonated with me. Lol ESPECIALLY that art gallery scene (minus the poisoning😂) where Killmonger says "how do you think your ancestors got this?". I gotta tell ya, there's nothing more painful than standing in a white walled gallery or museum staring at an object that rightfully belongs to you and your ancestors and your not even allowed to touch it. Never mind that! But often you have to pay to even SEE these objects!!! Its PREPOSTERUS!! Lol all this to say that Killmonger fulfilled a long held desire of mine to just smash through the glass and take back what was stolen.

  • GIGI
    GIGI 4 ай бұрын +135

    “i’m a white person! i was about to be oppressed! and i was like, oh 😞 he was about to accomplish his goals!” i’ve been laughing for 10 minutes 😂

  • Andy Tavary
    Andy Tavary 2 ай бұрын +65

    The scariest villains are the ones who truly believe they are right. But the most terrifying villains are the ones who actually *are* right.

    • MrBrock314
      MrBrock314 2 ай бұрын +3

      As stated before - there's being right and there's doing right. They're two different things. As pointed out in Ms. Marvel - good isn't a thing you are, it's a thing you do.

  • 1717Dave
    1717Dave 4 ай бұрын +20

    There’s an old saying “He who is rejected by his own village will burn it down just to feel it’s warmth.” That pretty much describes Killmonger to a t.

  • IceMetalPunk
    IceMetalPunk 4 ай бұрын +758

    Killmonger's psychology is, "I've only ever seen pain, oppression, abandonment, violence, and death, and I want it to stop. So I'll use the only tools I know and stop the pain by inflicting it upon the oppressors until they yield, even if that means they die and their children die with them."
    Whereas T'Challa's psychology is, and always is, "I understand you. I'm listening, I see where you're coming from, I truly understand your pain. And I understand the need to change things -- not just *your* need, but the need for all of us to change things. And I promise, we will help you; it will be slower than you hoped, and maybe harder, but in the end, if we do it this way, your pain will be reduced, and not just transferred to someone else's heart."
    And that is why in What If...?, when T'Challa becomes Star Lord, he even reforms Thanos. And that is why T'Challa is the hero and Killmonger, though his goals are relatable and he makes good points, is the villain. And that is why T'Challa is the rightful ruler of Wakanda.
    Rest in Power, King Chadwick ✊🏾💗

    • P Adams
      P Adams 29 күн бұрын

      @ClausMystery If that is what you got out of the film, then that seems like a personal problem.

    • P Adams
      P Adams Ай бұрын

      @ClausMystery But it was still a success!

  • Wing3dHat
    Wing3dHat 4 ай бұрын +77

    Love the small details in this movie, like how Eric speaks Wakandan with a noticeable American accent. It's such a contrast to all the other royals in the scene. Bc him being a product of both cultures is so important to who he is as a character, of course that's how he speaks!

  • Laura Whitney
    Laura Whitney 4 ай бұрын +33

    Let's not leave out T'Challa's journey in Captain America: Civil War, where he was in the revenge path and then steps back to see the pain of Zemo and Bucky. I think that gets him to this place of compassion where he can change the world by understanding Killmonger. 🥰

  • Deshawn Sanders
    Deshawn Sanders 4 ай бұрын +308

    As a black man I just wanted to thank you guys for doing this episode ❤️😭👍🏾

  • Angelique Dawkins
    Angelique Dawkins 4 ай бұрын +43

    This was amazing. It would have been nice to see a second guest, a black therapist at the end to talk about how to heal. Because there are black therapists out there who taking in consideration the collective trauma of the community that has been passed down. Still amazing, guys, thank you! 🙏

    • Daniel Land
      Daniel Land 3 ай бұрын +5

      I completely agree with this

  • Jackie M
    Jackie M 4 ай бұрын +39

    For me, the "ancestral walk" scene really makes this movie. It takes all the pieces and shows them to you, bare all. You can see in the distance the plains and skies of Wakanda and know that he knows the stories and history and the place is in his heart. But closer to him is the apartment, Oakland, the bars on the window like a cage keeping that freedom away, locking him in this place of grief and oppression. And it's truly a connection with his ancestors and not a vision or something in his own mind, he's really talking to his father. You can tell because he talks with his father but his father realizes he's not talking to his son, not to Erik, he's talking to Killmonger. In a movie of full brilliant scenes, this one is probably the brightest.

  • The Story Factory
    The Story Factory 4 ай бұрын +1799

    Nakia made every point Killmonger made, in a different way. T'Challa could have listened to her, someone he trusted, at any time, but he brushed her off with tradition until Killmonger arrived.

    • RazielTheUnborn
      RazielTheUnborn 2 ай бұрын +3

      @Paul T Sjordal The movie wouldn't have been avoided at all. Killmonger still would have came for the throne. The changes Nakia is proposing would not have happened quick enough for Killmonger to not go all conquerer mode.

    • Paul T Sjordal
      Paul T Sjordal 2 ай бұрын +2

      I love that this whole movie could have been avoided had everyone listened to Nakia.

    • Daniel Land
      Daniel Land 3 ай бұрын +3

      @M A. yep..it was also (people forget this) that his father KILLED his brother and left his cousin out their.
      That's what shook T'Challa more so then anything, his father failed him.
      And going further this is between T'Chaka & his brother N'Jobu.
      Being the younger brother and being a War Dog, he wanted to help others like Nakia.
      But T'Chaka said no, N'Jobu decided to steal Vibranium from Wakanda and used Klaue to do so, which is when W'Kabi dad died.
      W'Kabi was salty about T'Challa not doing enough to find Klaue, however had the flim dug deeper into the sins of the ancestors then we would have seen how T'Chaka & N'Jobu disagreement lead to all of this going down.
      It was a problem that T'Chaka could have solved and in a round about way he died and let his sins to his son to fix, which is terrible

    • M A.
      M A. 3 ай бұрын +2

      @baller0724 OP isn’t implying it’s due to misogyny, the rest of the replies are

  • Ardra Malika ×͜×
    Ardra Malika ×͜× 3 ай бұрын +87

    I actually really wanna see Magneto villain therapy.

  • Sappy
    Sappy 4 ай бұрын +31

    I met Stacey on a cruise in 2021 and he was genuinely just one of the nicest people. He's such a cool dude, and I'm excited that he's part of this episode

  • Craig Anderson
    Craig Anderson 4 ай бұрын +75

    The museum scene is one of my favorites because until I saw this film I didn't even realize how important it was for our people to have our historical artifacts locked behind glasses for display.

    • Jaren From Venus
      Jaren From Venus 2 ай бұрын

      If not completely hidden.

    • Oscar Gómez
      Oscar Gómez 3 ай бұрын +4

      @Stacey Smith i like that episode in particular because of how he points out that modern people are not responsible for having taken the things in the first place… but just ignoring it is not ethical either.

    • Stacey Smith
      Stacey Smith 3 ай бұрын +15

      John Oliver does a pretty good episode delving into the (lack of) ethics and morality of items being kept away from their homes.

    • Tuoyo3005
      Tuoyo3005 3 ай бұрын +9

      If you're ever in London, the British Museum houses these artefacts and more. You'll have to pay for certain exhibitions if you want to see them but general entry is free. Donations are welcome but I can never bring myself to give a penny - they have enough patrons

  • Pinkhouse 248
    Pinkhouse 248 Ай бұрын +5

    I love the scene between Killmonger and his father. I love how his father took responsibility for what Killmonger became instead of blaming the world.

  • Lyndsy Carson
    Lyndsy Carson 4 ай бұрын +26

    Sterling K. Brown should be in every movie 😊 he is an amplifier of whatever emotion that’s trying to be reflected in any given scene.

  • Trina Q
    Trina Q 4 ай бұрын +2216

    It's interesting that in Erik's dying words, he asked to be buried in the ocean, like his ancestors. But since Wakanda was never colonised, he must be referring to his mother's side. She was likely a black American woman who had ancestors who were sold into slavery, so Erik is embracing both sides of his ancestors in that moment.

    • Sabiha Sayeed
      Sabiha Sayeed Ай бұрын

      @BlackGirlMarvel's Multiverse OP's comment has been edited, so I'm guessing they fixed the error in the edit after it was pointed out by the replies.

    • MrBrock314
      MrBrock314 2 ай бұрын

      @Kymani Arie Possibly. His mother could've immigrated from a country where slavery wasn't a thing to the US like millions have. However, it's definitely possible his ancestors were slaves also. For example, here in Canada, the majority of Black Canadians don't have slavery in their background because most Black Canadians immigrated from either a free country in the Caribbean or from a former slave country in the Caribbean where slavery was abolished so long ago, they can't trace it in their family.
      This isn't to suggest they didn't have other hardships (racism is/was still a thing) but a lot of Black people don't have slavery in their background, even in North America.

    • Free Speech
      Free Speech 3 ай бұрын

      @Mr. Stuff Doer 🤡🤡🤡

    • Free Speech
      Free Speech 3 ай бұрын

      @Mr. Stuff Doer the same way African Americans are still present in America..Our ancestors are family…cousins, brothers, sisters, moms, dads…everyone didn’t make it to the America’s…The family that jump from the ships are still are ancestors..If my 4th great grandmother jump from the ship but my 3rd Great grandmother didn’t…she would give birth to generations in bondage…I can’t believe you even wrote that statement…

  • Kera Logan
    Kera Logan 4 ай бұрын +22

    I see the argument made that Nakia has been making the same argument as Killlmonger and that she should have been listened to. The reason why that could not work is because the fear of change outweighs the reality of the need for change. What they've been doing has always worked for them and they've always prospered, relatively peacefully. It wasn't until T'challa was shown the physical manifestation of the danger of inaction that he was able to truly understand that their inaction leads to a preventable suffering that breeds more violence.

  • violette259
    violette259 4 ай бұрын +21

    I watched the second movie on Saturday, it was definitely like therapy for me, being that many of my immediate family members passed when I was shuri's age. Its been more than twenty years, but when she expressed her feelings I finally felt relief. Movies are definitely therapy

  • Harrison20101000
    Harrison20101000 4 ай бұрын +53

    Killmonger is what we’re familiar with, what our emotions lead us to, and what a lot of the times we see as the only solution. T’Challa by the end of the film is what we should aspire to be.

    • yadig
      yadig Ай бұрын

      T'Challa died first in Infinity War after Thanos snapped for a reason, this comment reeks with cowardice

    • vang-tou Lee
      vang-tou Lee 2 ай бұрын +2

      @djholidaytv414 his point exactly. the fact that you have to ask that is quite the shame.

    • djholidaytv414
      djholidaytv414 3 ай бұрын +2

      @ArakanEli Where was King leading his people into with that good and noble BS 🤔

    • ArakanEli
      ArakanEli 3 ай бұрын

      Unfortunately, I feel that T'Challa's way is considered to be 'out of reach' by most people. Because T'Challa represents such a high and noble mountain, people are intimidated by him and don't aspire to climb. In reality, they just seem him as an obstacle. Reminds me of how a lot of Black people view MLK. Someone can be perceived to be so good and noble, that the very people they want to help see them begin to see them as the biggest threat to their 'familiar' way of life.

  • Mew4U
    Mew4U 3 ай бұрын +58

    Damn, when killmonger said he rather be burned and thrown to sea like his ancestors instead of being held captive... 🤧😢

    • Aliah Personous
      Aliah Personous 2 ай бұрын

      @MrBrock314 agreed on the Killmongers momma part

    • MrBrock314
      MrBrock314 2 ай бұрын

      @Aliah Personous I mean, technically, Killmonger's mother might not have descended from slaves as a fair amount of Black people in the United States did immigrate post-slavery. But yeah, it's likely.

    • J s
      J s 3 ай бұрын

      @aliahpersonous2893 so it explores American racism as a wholy unique subject but completely ignores the far worse racism of the rest of the world...........what's your point you were making?

    • Aliah Personous
      Aliah Personous 3 ай бұрын

      @J s No I didn’t?
      All that’s been explored so far in terms of reflecting real life racism is the stuff black people deal with in America.
      But not anywhere else.
      That’s all I said.

  • Sec Neotic
    Sec Neotic 4 ай бұрын +20

    I can never express how much of the Xhosa and nuance was awesome! Obviously, Killmonger struggles with the correct pronunciation of his Xhosa lines because he grew up outside of Wakanda. The real South African actors get it right. As someone who speaks Xhosa, I'd say Killmonger got it right.

  • Wyndell Lee the Spammer
    Wyndell Lee the Spammer 4 ай бұрын +1282

    Everybody in the theaters was laughing when Killmonger said, "Hey, Auntie"

    • Not-Homesick NG
      Not-Homesick NG 3 ай бұрын +2

      @Arno Snyman Oh I see, you're one of those who wants so desperately to be oppressed.

    • Arno Snyman
      Arno Snyman 4 ай бұрын +1

      Everyone was also laughing when Shuri called Ross a colonizer. They tend to laugh at racist jokes as well.

    • giggle_snort
      giggle_snort 4 ай бұрын

      @bishop51807 Yeah, that's a lot of words... but to be fair, she was listening to herself type, not talk. 😂

  • Argos2297
    Argos2297 4 ай бұрын +13

    This was one of the reasons why I really found The Black Panther and especially T'Challa a very compelling character. In MCU most of the heroes/heroines in fiction are leaders but very few of them were also actual Government Leaders and even fewer were put into the position of a monarch. Seeing T'Challa have to balance being a hero and an actual government leader in a new age is extremely compelling amd as much as I like how honest and true Captain America is Captain Erica has the luxury of just being a soldier a war hero atleast in the MCU he doesn't have to weigh the calamity of ideology and morality over governance. And also you sew with how mature T'Challa is in comparison to most if not all the Avengers and especially the Avenger with the closest circumstance to him Thor.

  • David Williams
    David Williams 3 ай бұрын +11

    When his dad said “no tears for me?” It choked me up!

  • Random Measures
    Random Measures 4 ай бұрын +19

    They weren't just enemies; they were family. To see someone so vibrant and already so hurt and feel impotent as the ugliness of the world consumes them, their ears deafened to any love or joy, even that in which they were raised. Black Panther, very appropriately, is a dialogue.

  • Sheriff K
    Sheriff K 4 ай бұрын +14

    I loved the scene where Killmonger takes off his shirt and you see the ritual scars, showing his appreciation/adherence to a culture he lost.. it was very impactful (and a stark contrast/juxtaposition to T'Challa's more tame appearance.)

  • Tammy T
    Tammy T 4 ай бұрын +18

    This is one of the few films in recent years where I wasn't disappointed by the writing. Absolutely phenomenal themes and delivery.

  • AceSpadeThePikachu
    AceSpadeThePikachu 4 ай бұрын +1616

    Probably the only other villain I can think of who brought the same level of tragic motives and almost self-righteous zeal to the table while still threatening to oppress or kill billions of people is Magneto. Killmonger and Magneto are probably two of the best comic-book movie villains ever for that reason, and I'd love to see a Villain Therapy episode about Magneto.

    • The Galaxy's Thumb
      The Galaxy's Thumb 23 күн бұрын

      Baron Zemo

    • Icesticker
      Icesticker Ай бұрын

      Part of it is also they both have great foils to work against just has Killmonger's extremism is met by T'challa's compassion and Magneto's extremism is met by Charles optimism. Having that opposite who is family or friend and the division between them I think is a very big part of grounding characters with such tragedy and strengthening their position too.

    • Eric Goldlust
      Eric Goldlust 2 ай бұрын

      I'd LIKE to include Adrian Veidt from Watchmen to the list, but I feel like most of his character development and motivation was somehow left out. I think it's mostly that he was played as cool and calculating, and as such was hard to get any kind of read on. But I'm mentioning him because his motive and methods were defensible enough to make him potentially really compelling.
      I mean, he was absolutely wrong, but compelling nonetheless.

    • Penney Sound
      Penney Sound 2 ай бұрын

      The thing that makes Magneto interesting as a character, particularly in the movies, is he's a Holocaust survivor who thinks like a Nazi. He believes mutants are the master race, and he's always looking for a "final solution" to eliminate those who are different from him.
      Even Killmonger just wants to oppress everyone who is different from him. Magneto tried to systematically murder everyone who is different from him.

    • MrBlaqgold
      MrBlaqgold 2 ай бұрын

      @David Weihe malcolm X after his Hadj concentrated his efforts on the OAAU, a union between Africa and Black Americans, that had great influence on the early revolutionary independence movements in Africa, so he very much remained a 'black muslim'....

  • Maren
    Maren 4 ай бұрын +6

    “The child who is not embraced by the village, will burn it down to feel it’s warmth” -African Proverb

  • mira
    mira 3 ай бұрын +6

    This episode was greatly cathartic for me. Thank you, guys, for being so sensible and respectful and all around amazing people 💝

  • Hannah W.
    Hannah W. 4 ай бұрын +13

    My mom is African American. I don't know her history which means I also don"t know my people. But my dad is Ethiopian. We are the only country in Africa that was never colonized. I relate so much to both Killmonger and T'Challa in how they approach living the world as a black person. I know oppression having grown up my entire life in the US but I also know the power and freedom of saying hey my people were always free. But the confusion to the question I hold "Why am I treated this way?" is almost impossible for me to come to terms with. At times I think I can solve it by being kind and at times I can be so angry at how unprivileged I've had to live this life. It's a chaotic existence and Black Panther was an amazing representation of what I go through with those two characters. Very excited to see your video about T'Challa!

  • Talyn the Artist
    Talyn the Artist 3 ай бұрын +6

    After hearing you guys talk about Killmonger, I would LOVE to hear more on the characters of Black Panther! Specifically Shuri, especially after Wakanda Forever. Maybe talking about her grief, after her brother and
    *spoilers for Wakanda Forever*
    Her mothers death. Her character is fascinating to me, and I would love to hear you guys talk about it!
    She actually reminds me of Killmonger in Wakanda Forever, at the end. And I know that was like kinda the point, but her seeing HIM and not her mom or dad was so powerful because that, I feel, just fueled her anger more. Her whole family is *gone* and seeing Killmonger saying “yeah, kill him. Take your revenge” and she ALMOST does, but (like her brother) showed kindness in the end.
    Anyway, would love to hear you guys talk about Shuri I think you would do it so well

  • Lotus475
    Lotus475 3 ай бұрын +38

    oh my gosh, stacey! I loved watching him from Studio C. So glad he's apart of this video.

  • Samuel Graham Does TCGs
    Samuel Graham Does TCGs 4 ай бұрын +987

    "Hurt people hurt people."
    Michael B Jordan and Chadwick Boseman are both SO good in this. Love this episode.

    • EverydayGhosts
      EverydayGhosts 4 ай бұрын +4

      @Justanotherconsumer i think its more nuanced than that, but i agree to a certain point :)
      We need to differentiate between real and movie villains. Movie villains are extremely interesting and have much more to them than just the inability to accept a no even if it is one of their features
      It's also interesting what you say about hurt people. Though my argument was that more hurt people continue being hurt than to hurt others. If you are affected by let's say transgenerational trauma it is still your desicion to hurt others. Yes, Maybe you been incapable if you weren't hurt, but the reality is, that the ones abused don't turn the wheel very often. And nothing relevates abuse, nothing. You are still responsible for the hurt of others. It's an explanation, not an excuse, which is transported with "well hurt people hurt people, the cycle will continue, i am just the victim of my circumstances". Its a way of delaying responsibility. But to change and to heal you have to accept that you did cause pain. Doesnt matter if youre the villain of a movie or in real life.

    • Justanotherconsumer
      Justanotherconsumer 4 ай бұрын +4

      @EverydayGhosts plenty of villains are entitled twats that never had a rough day in their lives except for the indignity of someone finally saying “no” to their ridiculous abuses.
      The problem is more people who get hurt and think that hurting people is just the way the world works. They’re not lashing out in anger or despair, they’re just doing what they think they’re supposed to be doing.

    • EverydayGhosts
      EverydayGhosts 4 ай бұрын +6

      No that's another sentence taken out of context. Like Jonathan literally said at the beginning abused people don't hurt others, they stay being abused until they are ready to heal. Villains can be traumatised, but this isn't thr point which makes them villains. It is much more complicated than that. That statement only stigmatises mental illness and prevents people from getting help because they think they are a burden and a perpetrators anyway. Which sadly also aligns to killmongers story. He thinks because of his issues he can't be anything else than violence. If he had gotten help somehow (don't ask me) and healed from all these deaths and traumas, maybe he would've searched for tchalla as a loving cousin and not as his revenge or dediced he could help bipoc around the world in another way (like tchalla did at the end).

    • JamaicaZ160
      JamaicaZ160 4 ай бұрын +2

      @Ashley Young I'd say you're strong for that. Very strong.

    • IceMetalPunk
      IceMetalPunk 4 ай бұрын +11

      @Ashley Young The phrase doesn't mean "people who are hurt end up hurting others". It's the other way around: it means people who hurt others usually do so because they themselves were hurt first.

  • bowen arrows
    bowen arrows 4 ай бұрын +11

    I think another thing that adds depth to Killmonger's portrayal is that when he speaks about his plans, or talks about his reasoning, you can catch glimpses of his child self who started his journey. The part showed here about how vibranium will solve it all, that motive to swap oppressor and oppressed, the motive to go back to Wakanda and become the ruler, the lack of nuance or compassion and compromise, etc. To me, I hear that hurt little boy alone in Oakland

  • Randy Bautista
    Randy Bautista 27 күн бұрын

    I remember watching Killmonger's scene on the ancestral plane and I wept. When Killmonger said he tried to go home and they rejected him, that hit me to my core. As an American child of Filipino immigrants, I felt the exact same: not Filipino enough to be accepted by native Filipinos, not American enough to be accepted where I was born. What made Killmonger so compelling is that his rage was grounded, relatable, and all too real. Such masterful work from Ryan Coogler & Michael B. Jordan in bringing such a fantastic character to life.

  • Nero
    Nero 4 ай бұрын +12

    I’m only two minutes into the video but I just want to say I already love Stacey’s energy! Hope we see more of him in the future

  • Snowstorm
    Snowstorm Ай бұрын +1

    I was wondering why I recognized Stacey! I used to watch the heck out of Studio C when I was younger. So crazy to see him here, and I'm happy to know he's still doing well

  • mutant izumi
    mutant izumi 3 ай бұрын +32

    I need that Cinema Therapy made a "Hero Therapy" of Shuri in Wakanda forever. And also from "jake Sully" from Avatar

    • Matt Gilbert
      Matt Gilbert 2 ай бұрын

      If you want to get the scoop on Jake Sully check out the podcast episode "World Tree Centre" from Chapo Trap House. It's on KZclip :

  • ladytremere85
    ladytremere85 4 ай бұрын +488

    I think one of the saddest things about Killmonger is how great of an ally he could have been to Wakanda and T'challa if T'chaka had just taken his nephew back to Wakanda.

    • buki
      buki 4 ай бұрын +16

      I think killmonger would soon or later discover what T'chaka did even if he took him in and we would have ended right here when him and t'challa are fighting for the throne of wakanda

    • Georgia Dufresne
      Georgia Dufresne 4 ай бұрын +64

      Actually no, because then he would have been raised in privilege. It's the suffering that he endured that created him, of course he would have been "radicalized" which is what the wakanda's think of nakia now. But without the actual suffering, there wouldn't have been an actual perspective.
      It sucks to say it that way, but as was mentioned before nakia, his best friend who was the border patrol, all of them were telling him gently this is wrong not helping everyone. He needed to see it physically, it's just that way.

  • Reginald Amoah
    Reginald Amoah 4 ай бұрын +14

    I was a bit torn with Killmonger as well my son really liked him and said he wasn't completely wrong. He was 11 at the time so I was impressed at his grasp of nuance and he really likes villains with a cause. I think the film did a good job of addressing Black rage and how it comes from a place of loss, rejection and suffering. Also this rage and violence manifests in a way that more often than not is directed at other Black people rather than at white even if the object of the rage are the systems put in place by white elites of the past. Black people in a position of privilege whether in Africa or the diaspora have to make the choice that confronts Tchalla. Do you basically accept the status quo and only focus on your obligation to your family, tribe or class interests or do you take a Pan African aproach and tear down the system like Kilmonger wants? Tchalla ultimately chooses a moderate approach to work within the existing system and advocate for change. The jury is still out on that approach because even when you come with a peaceful approach the system pushes back with a narrative of reverse racism. Basically it all depends on whether white people are ready to see the racial innequality as the real Thanos level enemy and assemble as allies with Black people to take it down. However to win in the "Endgame" it's going to take more than just one white billionaire to make a sacrifice.

  • Deborah Walker
    Deborah Walker 2 ай бұрын +1

    The way Okoye looked at her husband W'Kabi like what wahala are you bringing here. It really brings home how hurt she was in Wakanda Forever.

  • Ciara Armstrong
    Ciara Armstrong 4 ай бұрын +10

    The "hate" Kilmonger has for T'Challa is not purely hate but resentment. T'Challa is person who is his age or around his age, and got to live in this life of privilege and black utopia. While Kilmonger was alone and had to struggle and fight; when he knew that he was initialed to this life as well because of all the stories his dad told him. So to Kilmonger T'Challa is this mirror version of what he could've been.

  • theguildrat -
    theguildrat - 2 ай бұрын +4

    Please do BP2! Can’t wait to see your take on handling grief in that movie

  • Felicia Webb
    Felicia Webb 3 ай бұрын +19

    So good, thank you for covering this character!

  • Starla-P
    Starla-P 4 ай бұрын +740

    I actually wrote a mini paper for Psychology class on Michael B. Jordan's performance and how it affected him mentally off-screen. Apparently he got into the role of Killmonger so much that the despair of the character sort of bled into Jordan's actual mind, and he was in a bad spot for a while. He even needed therapy/counseling because he was feeling depressed. Just from a movie role he had! Props to him for selling the character and also getting help when he needed it.

    • vayoha02
      vayoha02 3 ай бұрын

      I believe he did "method acting". The best actors such as Robert De Niro and Daniel Day-Lewis do it. During the filming process, they stay in character. Some even want to be only called by their characters name. It's a FULL IMMERSION.

    • K A
      K A 4 ай бұрын

      @• Galanthus • I think you missed their point. Ledger would not have needed the pills if he wasn't struggling with anxiety induced insomnia.

    • See N Say
      See N Say 4 ай бұрын

      I wanna read the paper too

    • HetLedie
      HetLedie 4 ай бұрын

      Can i Read this paper? sounds interesting

  • Katie Bailey
    Katie Bailey 3 ай бұрын +5

    Killmonger was the first time I ever cried at a villains death. Like it felt really wrong, but you knew it had to be done.

  • Secret Moonshine
    Secret Moonshine 2 ай бұрын +1

    I really appreciate the way you guys have approached some difficult and controversial topics.

  • Bonnie Brae
    Bonnie Brae 4 ай бұрын +7

    There were *two* main heroes in this movie, to me - Eric was just a tragic one. And I feel Killmonger pulling that blade out at the end was also him finally removing the wound from his childhood (and the resulting misdirected rage) as what propels him.

  • Netta Beatty
    Netta Beatty 24 күн бұрын

    The scene in throne room is so powerful and when he comes to sit on the throne, and the shot is upside-down to symbol how now the world is turning with his rule, amazing. This is why I got so upset with the second one.

  • scottdatplanetsave
    scottdatplanetsave 2 ай бұрын +2

    Man. Listening to y’all wax poetic about all these movies and characters is insightful

  • The Ponderer
    The Ponderer 4 ай бұрын +842

    The thing about Killmonger is that he is justifiably anger, but that anger manifests as directionless cruelty. He says as much himself at the end; he’s lashing out against *the whole world.* He really doesn’t care about Justice, he just wants to always be hurting *somebody.*

    • The Ponderer
      The Ponderer 4 ай бұрын

      @Christian Dauz who is that directed towards?

    • Christian Dauz
      Christian Dauz 4 ай бұрын +1

      Tamir Rice and Kalief Browder disagree
      Only reason Floyd's murderers went to prison is that they burnt down a PD

    • So?
      So? 4 ай бұрын +6

      I agree with this, and that's why I always saw his intentions to be stupid and short-sighted, even as a black person. He's just fulfilling his rage, which is only destructive and will only create more enemies in the long run, creating an endless war. That helps no one. It just soothes an ego, but only for a time.

  • The Mightier Pencil
    The Mightier Pencil 4 ай бұрын +6

    Killmonger and Magneto are the only villains whose motivations I understand even if I don’t agree (necessarily) with the execution…also OG Maleficent (animated version), all they had to do was send sis an invite, smdh

  • Claretriestoohard
    Claretriestoohard 2 ай бұрын

    God the “you were wrong” scene makes me violently sob every time

  • Persefoni Ajax
    Persefoni Ajax 4 ай бұрын +6

    STACEY? A crossover between Studio C and Cinema Therapy . . . something I never knew I needed

  • Esteban Gabriel Colmán Valenzuela

    Hey Auntie was still the best line of Killmonger, and he said a lot of great things haha

  • IronicAcid
    IronicAcid 21 күн бұрын

    I really wished that the what if episode with Killmonger actually had him acomplish his goals, that would have been so cool to see!

  • Gracie Jay
    Gracie Jay 4 ай бұрын +1163

    Killmonger is right in a lot of ways, but the way he goes about it is the problem, large part in response to his trauma and loss. Really makes you wonder what would have happened had he had the chance to grow up in Wakanda. He would probably have been a visionary leader. 😪

    • Joe Black
      Joe Black 3 ай бұрын +1

      The tragedy of Killmonger isn’t that he didn’t grow up in Wakanda. It’s that he was born into a world full of superheroes and not one of them even tried to help Black people.

    • Joe Black
      Joe Black 3 ай бұрын

      @Hollow Mello12 everyone who was conscripted into Thanos’ army was an adult? Are you sure? Even Gamorra when he captured her?

    • Hollow Mello12
      Hollow Mello12 4 ай бұрын

      @Justanotherconsumer true

    • Justanotherconsumer
      Justanotherconsumer 4 ай бұрын

      @Hollow Mello12 sorta.
      Nebula has a certain bit where she’s an abused child that’s never been allowed to be her own person.

    • Hollow Mello12
      Hollow Mello12 4 ай бұрын +1

      @Joe Black that's different those are adults

  • Joel Montague
    Joel Montague Ай бұрын

    Just stumbled on this channel and damn, this was amazing. The conversation beautiful and the dialogue was thoughtful and fun. I thoroughly enjoyed it, thanks for this! Also you guys should definitely do a Namor episode as well!

  • Chrismatt Gardner
    Chrismatt Gardner 2 ай бұрын +1

    The villain I related to was Black Manta. Aquaman could've easily saved his dad but didn't. Also when he's building his armor with Atlantian tech. I got ironman vibes from him. Very cool.

  • Maryam Aamer
    Maryam Aamer 3 ай бұрын +2

    The ending of this episode was everythinggg 😭💗💗. Loved the entire 33 minutes of it. Tysm internet dads and Stacey 🥺.
    And sending love to all people who needed Wakanda in their lives and Wakanda wasn’t there for them ❤️‍🩹

  • The Past Avatars
    The Past Avatars 3 ай бұрын +11

    Imagine if they did villain therapy for Redhood(Batman: Under the RedHood) and Tai Lung(Kung Fu Panda).

  • IXScasualty
    IXScasualty Ай бұрын

    The entire time during the art heist I was thinking about how awful the world would be if art heists actually happened like that - but Killmonger is one of the best villains out there.

  • Nia
    Nia 4 ай бұрын +729

    That first quote "the things that we do that are destructive is because we are hurting and we want positive change and we're doing it the only way we know how" is so beautiful omg

  • Spencer Christensen
    Spencer Christensen 4 ай бұрын +4

    I loved seeing Stacey on this show I grew up watching studio c and he was one of my favorites on the cast. Kill monger is such a great villain.

  • B-Side Cassette
    B-Side Cassette 14 күн бұрын

    would love a villain and hero therapy on netflix's Daredevil and Kingpin. theyre extremely deep and nuanced characters with amazing actors and writers, and despite the amount of video essays on them, i would love to see your guys' perspective on the two of them

  • Phronesis7
    Phronesis7 4 ай бұрын +3

    What a refreshingly honest discussion! I really appreciate this video

  • Luliby
    Luliby 4 ай бұрын +2

    A small detail I appreciate is that they understand how stabbing works. He pulls the object that has pierced him out in order to die. Exactly. If you are stabbed by something, then you are supposed to leave it in in order to remain more stable. Pulling it out will cause more damage and will threaten your health/life more. Just FYI.

  • Tisha Lawson
    Tisha Lawson 4 ай бұрын +3

    I'm a newer subscriber and I'm beyond pleased how awesome this video was. It really drove home so many feelings that plague our communities. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 I've shared this with a few friends to initiate us verbalizing our trauma so we can heal. Now I need to rewatch it before I see #2. Great job. Thank you.

  • Quinn Grey
    Quinn Grey 4 ай бұрын +750

    "just kidding we're vegetarians" was such a great line. The exact humor that was needed in that space

      PARASURAMA 4 ай бұрын +2

      Plants have enough protein though for muscular humans.

      PARASURAMA 4 ай бұрын

      @Julie Tardos *predominantly

    • Pretty Princess
      Pretty Princess 4 ай бұрын +2

      @Guardian Of Light Plants often have more protein than meat but you're right, the Jabari tribe is very active.

    • Julie Tardos
      Julie Tardos 4 ай бұрын +2

      @PARASURAMA Gorillas do eat meat, and they eat insects, which are higher in protein than mammals or reptiles by weight. All the higher primates eat meat.

      PARASURAMA 4 ай бұрын +7

      The idea behind that was that they follow Gorillas (spirit animal type thing) who are predominantly vegetarian.

  • SupPotato123
    SupPotato123 Ай бұрын

    Ever time I watch the end scene where they watch the sunrise it kills me. I cried again watching this video just now.

  • Adon Von Ilesere
    Adon Von Ilesere 4 ай бұрын +2

    You need to have more guests. This was a fantastic discussion

  • ThatCrazyNerdGirl Productions
    ThatCrazyNerdGirl Productions 4 ай бұрын

    Can’t wait to see you guys talk about Shuri’s arc in the new one

  • Heather Pendarvis
    Heather Pendarvis Ай бұрын

    I always saw the scene of Killmonger seeing his dad in the ancestral plane as beautiful and sad. To me, he turned into a child upon seeing his father to symbolize his childhood ending the moment he discovered his father’s body and the truth about their identity.

  • The Flickster
    The Flickster 3 ай бұрын +6

    As someone who comes from a Nigerian family, the song Burna Boy released for the film reflects so much from Shuri but, also a lot of Killmonger. I loved him in the second film and think it's probably one of the best scenes in the MCU. Up until that point, Shuri was practically getting a similar hand to Killmonger and having the two interact was just so epic. Can't really think of a better MCU villain.

  • Sophie Amanda Leiton Toomey
    Sophie Amanda Leiton Toomey 4 ай бұрын +236

    I actually shed tears for Killmonger in his final moments.
    None of his actions should be excused, but you always see the broken little boy who was not allowed to be apart of his culture of Wakanda, shunned and abandoned by his uncle, and who experienced the loss of his father, making him feel more alone and in despair than he already was.
    I don’t defend the actions of the man, but I do pity the child that was never loved and accepted by his people the way he should have been.

    • Joe Black
      Joe Black 3 ай бұрын

      @Cooki Queen few things… first I didn’t call you a racist I said you project criminality onto Black people, that’s not an insult it’s an accurate description of what you keep doing. Killmonger didn’t do anything to his enemies that the Avengers didn’t do to theirs. He’s only a bad guy to racists because he opposed racism.

    • Cooki Queen
      Cooki Queen 3 ай бұрын

      @Joe Black Who said I was projecting criminality onto black people? Are you seriously calling me racist? That’s just sad and uncalled for. I simply disagree with what you say, because unlike you, I am not bias of one’s color. I love all of these characters for their personalities and choices, not because of their color. I never intended for this to become an argument, I wanted to peacefully discuss the characters I love. Yet somehow, you seem to believe that people are evil for adoring white fictional characters?? And you call me racist? Wow.
      Do you realize who is leading the Avengers? Nick Fury, a black man, who has also killed people. He was a rough guy, but he was sensible and did his best to lead the group. Do you even know Black Widow’s history? She was brainwashed as a young child, and basically mind-controlled. She was trained to be an assassin and if she failed, the punishments were extreme. She hated her past and actually made it her mission to take them out so no one else would be brainwashed like her. It’s not her fault she was kidnapped and practically tortured as a child! Are you seriously blaming her for that because she’s white?! Your skin tone doesn’t automatically make you an angel or a demon. Stop pretending everyone is racist just to justify your own racism.
      You talk about how Zuri is the one who interfered with the royal challenge, when Killmonger himself refused to accept that it hadn’t been finished yet, when Black Panther revealed himself to still be alive. Killmonger is not a perfect little angel simply because he’s black. None of them are. Each one of these characters has flaws and that’s what makes them amazing, unique, and relatable. When Black Panther revealed that the challenge was still on-going, Killmonger did not choose to continue the fight. He first chose to attempt to kill Zuri and anyone else he could. The Black Panther had to force him to continue the challenge by engaging him alone in a duel. And you claim Killmonger didn’t break the rules? If he had any honor, he would’ve continued the duel, and yet he went after the younger sister who had trouble fighting him at all. Sounds like a murderer to me. You also claim he only killed three people in the movie. Have you forgotten what he said himself? Every mark on his body was put there by himself when he got a kill. He got over a hundred kills. He is a murderer, and no matter how hard you try to hide it because it wasn’t “in the movie” or because “he’s black,” Killmonger is still a villain. He literally wanted to wage war on the world, and it’s fortunate he didn’t get to do so.
      The Black Panther is a good person, but he is still flawed. What makes him good is how he learns from his mistakes. He actually listens to Killmonger, and wants to save his life. Killmonger chooses to die instead, but afterward, the Black Panther reveals Wakanda to the world like Killmonger wanted and begins helping other people where he can. He chose a peaceful resolution that would be good for all, including those outside of Wakanda. That is called character development, and it is something Killmonger chose not to have. He chose not to see things differently, he chose war over peace, death over mercy, hate over kindness, and so on. That’s what makes him a bad guy. He had a dark and terrible past, but chose to continue the string of hate, rather than to cut it off. That’s why he is a villain, and his color does not change the fact that he took over a hundred lives for his own self interest. The Black Panther’s color does not change the fact that he chose to continue a pointless tradition of solitude until Killmonger came and showed him a better path. Fortunately, he chose to do something about it, something peaceful and good, not involving murder, but rather involving kindness, generosity, honesty, and support.
      I could go on and on about each of these characters, but it would be pointless. I dislike arguments and I dislike racism. So this will be my final comment. It’s not right of you to attack others for liking or disliking different fictional characters, whether they’re black or white, heroes or villains. They’re not real, they’re made to be enjoyed by all kinds of people. No one is perfect. These fictional characters are not perfect, and their human writers are not perfect either. It’s just a movie series! Stop being so hateful about this. It isn’t real life. It isn’t about your ego. It’s about stories that help people. In a world of hate, don’t try to take that happiness away from them by assuming the worst.
      I will not reply anymore, unless you actually have something nice to say. Either way, I hope you have a good month and a great Christmas, if you celebrate that. Your opinions are valid, but so are mine. So let’s agree to disagree, and I’m sorry if any of my comments offended you. Thanks for the good discussion, while it lasted. 🍪

    • Joe Black
      Joe Black 3 ай бұрын

      @Cooki Queen murder is never good, unless you’re one of the white avengers who assassinate people for a living like Hawkeye, Black Widow, or any of the military guys on the team. Did you know that Killmonger only killed 3 people in the movie and none of those kills were murder. It was Klaue, Zuri who interfered with a royal challenge, and one of the Dora who tried to stage a coup. I really need y’all to stop projecting criminality onto Black people.

    • Cooki Queen
      Cooki Queen 3 ай бұрын

      @Joe Black Alright, thanks for clarifying. That is a fair point, and it’s a cool that Killmonger stands for all that. It’s good that he is anti-racist, but it’s bad that he murders a hundred people just to make a point. He might have good intentions, but his actions are far from good. Murder is never good.
      Tony Stark certainly never talked about racism, but that doesn’t mean he’s racist or bad. He simply focused more on the terrorist and alien attacks. His best friend is also a black man named Rhodes, so I don’t think it’s fair to hold that against him. He might not have done anything about racism specifically, but he helped push back and destroy hostile alien forces, as well as take out groups of terrorists and other massive threats. His priorities are different, but that’s not a bad thing.
      Everyone has their own priorities, specialties, and purposes. Not every single character and/or movie has to revolve around anti-racism in order to be good. This movie (the Black Panther) handles it well enough with Killmonger.

  • reyfan011
    reyfan011 4 ай бұрын +2

    Killmonger was a highlight for me with this movie. Aside from chadwick as panther of course. While he did cruel things, his motive was understandable. When he was taken to the royals and introduced himself as family, and that his father was murdered by the former king, that was intense, and one of my favorite scenes. Obviously he made some kind of impact cuz tchalla took his words to heart and wanted to change how wakanda interacted with the outside world.
    His actions were unforgivable, but he was sympathetic.

  • Cynthia Tansey
    Cynthia Tansey 23 күн бұрын

    One thing i noticed is that when Killmonger is in the ancestral plain and his dad says "what did you find?", Killmonger replies "YOUR home" showing us that he still views it as some other place, rather than somewhere he belongs.

  • signsofabadger
    signsofabadger 4 ай бұрын +2

    Oof, that final line from Killmonger....I feel it like ripples on a pond but in my chest.
    Killmonger chose his death, like the final act of freedom of countless numbers of people who refused to allow themselves to endure their resounding grief and suffering at the hands of another any longer. And just like those before him, he will not be alive to see how his actions change (or don't change) the world, something a lot of revolutionaries, activists, and civil rights leaders won't get. But popular movies like this are powerful: more people will understand, more people will feel connected, as it is a catharsis of sorrow, anger, and triumph. The more we share our stories, the more we speak about our experiences, the more we vote, the more we riot, the more we donate, the more we fight, and the more we connect to others, the larger a force we become. 💪

  • Ursa Minor
    Ursa Minor 4 ай бұрын +1

    I watched this early in the morning while brushing my teeth. As a result, I now know that screaming "OH MY GOSH! IT'S STACEY FROM STUDIO C AND JK! STUDIOS! HE'S ON CINEMA THERAPY!" with a toothbrush in my mouth makes me sound like a very excited parrot.

  • Steven Creech
    Steven Creech 4 ай бұрын +4

    Tom Cruise yelling No Sh*t when you guys say something is my new favorite bit. God it got me every time

  • Sammyxcatlover257
    Sammyxcatlover257 4 ай бұрын +851

    I actually really appreciate how aware you all are and are willing to get out side guest to appear when appropriate.

    • Randall Enger
      Randall Enger 4 ай бұрын

      This was not a good expansion on a race war starting villain

    • Firegen1
      Firegen1 4 ай бұрын +17

      @Beth_9 I agree, though I wonder with the new movie if they might do Shuri for discussion of development of a character. In many ways her journey from a written standpoint as someone who wasn't intended to be a lead role but also a psychological standpoint about how different cultures engage with loss. I haven't fully seen the film yet but all the reviews I've watched suggest they dealt with African grief very well. I lost my grandmother this year and her funeral and mourning process, is different to my European side completely.

    • Beth_9
      Beth_9 4 ай бұрын +53

      @Cinema Therapy If you guys are going to do a T'Chala cinema therapy, you have to bring a black man who was born and raised in Africa, because the reason why we African Americans resonate with Monger is because not only our ancestors survived slavery, but also because we have to live in a predominant white country, or continent!!! And that alone changes your whole perspective!!!

    • Cinema Therapy
      Cinema Therapy  4 ай бұрын +96

      Thank you :)

  • Shykorus Totora
    Shykorus Totora 3 ай бұрын +2

    Black Panther and Tomorrowland, both had villains who actually made a lot of sense. That's why they're in my top movies. I love a villain who actually has a point

  • ThatJoshWright
    ThatJoshWright 4 ай бұрын +5

    Hey Johnathan and Alan, doubt y’all are seeing this but I really love the channel. I was wondering if y’all had plans to do a psychology of a hero episode for Bucky Barnes. I think he has a very good character arc in coming to terms with his guilt and trauma, which is one of the aspects I really enjoyed from FATWS. Much love and appreciation 🙏

    • ThatJoshWright
      ThatJoshWright 4 ай бұрын +1

      @Tim Haldane those 2 scenes were the exact ones that came to mind when I posted that comment bro. Very well said

    • Tim Haldane
      Tim Haldane 4 ай бұрын

      This. There are two scenes in FATWS where Sebastian Stan's acting absolutely floored me. The campfire scene, of course. That was incredibly powerful. But also the shock and hurtful recognition in his eyes when he was literally disarmed by the Dora Milaje. The idea that they had a contingency plan in case he couldn't be trusted, even after everything he had been through, and they were justified in it... ouch.

  • Hannah Nelson
    Hannah Nelson 4 ай бұрын +1

    AHHH I love Stacy Harkey! So glad you guys collaborated!