I know you probably get comments like this all the time, but I’m completely addicted to these videos despite not being an aviator myself. My parents are/were in the industry (ATC and instructor) but taught me a lot more about meteorology (even did some storm chases with my dad). I’ve always enjoyed flying and having the parents I do made me very unafraid of flying, but now I feel like I can actually nerd out a little with them.
As Indonesian, watching this accident breakdown feels like getting hard punch in the face. This accident shows how our regulators and airline itself really messed up on maintenance and pilot training (or lack of) that led up to this disaster. I hope that they really learn from this disaster to actually improve AND implement recommendations from final report. Thanks to Mentour Pilot, you guys really doing amazing work as always. Do not stop doing this, it's really helpful to the society. Cheers
I'm from Poland and I often hear complaints from my natives about some things in my country compared to similar things in more Western and richer countries. Well those things are better there, because they have much more money to take care of those things!
Most people are ignorant of flight ops. We just fly as pax and relax or are shaking in our boots in fear because of lack of understanding. Thank you for casting light on the subject. Now people have a choice to fly or not. Knowledge gives leverage.
With close to 25000 hours my career has gone from steam dials to full automation and a glass cockpit but my scan pattern has never changed . I am not an armchair quarterback but to miss a throttle split of that magnitude between not 1 but 2 experienced pilots is hard to understand . Well taught habits and patterns hopefully stay with you . Thanks for your technical and thorough evaluation of these unfortunate accidents . 22:31
@George Dyson I understood what you said and have the same thought. But then, the answer of the puzzle ends in... sadly..., very simple but cold reality: Complacency 😱. And luck (or out of it) as well. What the pilot saw first wasn't the true effect of the banking, but the result of compensating one. So his effort of correcting was actually what making it even worse. Maybe it's like instinctively trying to correct left spin stall by steering the yoke to the right, or trying to stop skidding car by braking it even harder.
I totally agree Richard. There is nothing to see outside and all attention should be on the scan. How can you miss a throttle split like that and an unusual attitude (yaw) clearly recognizable during an instrument scan.
This is what puzzled me. I would have thought that pilots would constantly check what the settings of the controls were in the plane. Looking at the instrument panel, checking thrust lever positions, stick etc just to be sure the autopilot was operating as expected. There seem to be so many ways that the autopilot can try to compensate for switch settings, weather and malfunctions that it should never be left unsupervised. I struggle to believe that the different thrust settings could have been missed.
Very well done 👏 As an aeronautical engineer I often become distraught at the way information regarding aviation issues is presented in the media and especially on social media … but definitely no such occurrence when it comes to your content or the way it has been presented. Congratulations, your work and the work of your support team deserves high praise. Thank you for raising the bar and for freely sharing quality content.
@Mentour Pilot yeah, this example is a highlight of how reflexively taking action.... may or may not be a good idea. The pilot acted on reflex... when he needed more info.
I worked on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner as an IBM software architect on their Boeing Electronic Distribution of Software (BEDS) system, and I have appreciation of how much more complex it is to fly any plane. A modern plane has so many systems and modes that it is absolutely mind boggling. Mentour Pilot shares these aspect very well but what I really like is how he explains the psychology and circumstances that are going on. I love his videos. He has a cute dog too.
My favorite aspect of your work is your overall calmness. You have a cool demeanor and this strikes me as an absolutely necessary trait for a pilot. How much of that is "in your genes" and how much of it is learned behavior? I note you also have a beautiful dog. My dogs are very useful in sensing when I need to chill, and in helping me to take things down a notch. Do you find that dog contact helps you in this way? Bring on the beta-endorphins! THANKS, PETTER!!
When I first began driving school as a teenager, my instructor said something very important: in an emergency we often revert to the habits we learned first, so it is very important to learn the right behaviors first. That advice has saved my life more than once. For professional aviators, I imagine that making sure to bypass certain instincts, looking at the instrument panel, and avoiding confirmation bias are probably some of the important life-saving habits. The 1500 milliseconds it takes to ask “what is really going on” to break the spell could make all the difference.
It is peculiar to think that this series has been going for so long that you are now covering accidents that happened after you started making these. These are still the best airline accident analysis videos on KZclip.
To me as a passenger it looks like a good idea to make it mandatory for all pilots to watch everything on the Mentour Pilot channel. There is so much to learn from everything that went wrong!
I really appreciate the emphasis on how humans can be expected to respond given certain circumstances. Too often, people attribute failures to human error without considering human psychology and how circumstances contribute to the failure. Thank you for continually demonstrating how to properly analyze failures! Keep it up!
Putting me in the pilot's seat when the "bank angle!" warning sounded was perfect. As soon as you showed me what he saw my first thought was, "oh no he's going to turn it to the left."
Same. Before, I strongly felt that it's "pilot error", and couldn't undertand at all why the pilot failed to see the very impirtant things like the attitude indicator or thrust levers or this or that (I watched other channel about this particular accident). Watching that scene in this video, I'm become a bit more "aaah I see...".
It's sad when these accidents occur because of a persistent mechanical issue that is never properly diagnosed and fixed. In my opinion every system in a passenger aircraft should be considered critical, especially those that directly impact the flight characteristics of the aircraft. It's not like when the "Check Engine" light comes on in your car.
Thanks Petter, great video as always. As a retired 737 captain, I’m blown away by the lack of monitoring of flight instruments and controls to allow this sort of thing to happen, and the lack of reporting of events that eventually lead up to this. But then, it is Indonesia, so sadly, hardly surprising. Remember (amongst so many others) Adam Air. 😢 Some will say I’m being harsh, but the runs are on the board.
Petter, I wanted to publicly praise you and the Mentour production crew. The information and explanations are, as always, top-notch but the improvements in video or text overlays, maps, digital reenactments and the like have not gone unnoticed. Thank you, each and all.
Definitely want to express my agreement here. The production values on your videos are very high, which meshes very well with your high standards for information accuracy and detail to create a very complete and easily understood picture of the events you describe. You and your team do excellent work across the board.
I agree. Especially appreciated the music background this time... particularly that it is never loud enough to compete with Petter, and suits the mood very aptly...
As a pilot who flies his bonanza, these accidents constantly remind me the importance of checklists and actually verifying the item on the checklist. It's easy to say for instance on take off that, "engines in the green" with a quick glance, but looking back how often have I actually verified that vs just called it out as a memory item. I have made it a focus on my flying lately to get much better at checking items off and not just going through the motions. I'm also doing more flights with a CFI even though I don't need any additional training per the regulations, just so I can practice emergency procedures more. The more comfortable I am hand flying the plane the better I am at addressing emergencies.
Thank you, Mentour Pilot for your analysis about the the accidents and issues involved in the aircraft. At first, RIP to all passengers aboard. I've boarded that plane back in 2015 and it was a normal flight although it encountered heavy rains during the landing phase. And after heard SJ182 crash, I've shocked when knew that the plane involved in that accident was the same plane I've boarded 6 years ago.
I’m from Indonesia and I’ve been watching many of your videos recently. I would have to say that your videos are almost like tutorials which dissect each of those unfortunate accidents in many fine details and in many dimensions. This I think, is almost unfound in many other similar documentation videos. Regarding Indonesian aviation, to be honest as not so frequent domestic air traveller I’m still concern about the level of details and enforcement our authority has implemented to avoid this type of disaster in the future. This is unfortunately common mentality still persisting in our bureaucracy which is always late and wait for a disaster to happen before waking up.. but sometimes, only to sleep again😂 My hope is that our pilots and all of those important peoples in our aviation industry can watch and tuned in into your channel to at least expand their knowledge and perspective to make our sky safer
@soni damara Penyebab malfungsi AT tidak konklusif pak karena bukti otentik tidak bisa ditemukan. Maintenance yg sudah dilakukan hanya sebatas pembersihan komponen elektronik dan diagnosa melalui BITE. Sudah disimpulkan senada dgn KNKT bahwa penyebab kecelakaan ini adalah kombinasi malfungsi AT dan pilot error yg terlalu bergantung pd fitur otomasi (confirmation bias)
Pswt boeing 737 ini cacat produksi sejak awal pak... kan ada di catatan teknis nya.. saya percaya pilot sdh melakukan yg terbaik. Coba liat komen2 di video ini. Byk jg yg salahkan alat avionik di cocpit itu. Beda trust mesin kiri dan kanan sdh terjadi jauh sblm terbang terakhir. Salahkan teknisi indo? Ga bisa. Kan saat brand new bukan dioprasikan maskapai indo?
I can’t even fly a paper plane without it smashing on take off.. but your channel is way above all other aviation channels.. you don’t have to be a pilot to be able to follow your descriptive commentary… Thankyou 🇦🇺
2021... Crazy to think this disaster is just last year. Here is hoping the Indonesian Pilot workspace learn HEAVILY from this accident, and always self-report every problem to ensure safety for everyone involved. Thanks, Peter.
What an absolute horrific and unnecessary accident. Thank you, Petter, for this great, in depth look at this tragedy. Rest in peace to those lost in this accident, including, as I understand, 6 dead heading crew.
@B W Yes - and especially because this Captain must have known about the technical problems of this specific aircraft and that it would be good to keep the eyes open when flying it - and one Hand on the throttles.
@NicolaW72 I wonder what explains them Missing so many changes? And both of them missing every change seems very unusual too? RIP to all and the families. What is ABSOLUTELY 💯 % true, is that IF whatever caused the thrust shift imbalance had been fixed properly, this tragedy would not have occurred!
24:52 A well trained pilot would not have looked at the controls but at the instruments on hearing the “bank angle” caution. I’m flabbergasted that any pilot would be in cloud, during a climb and not be aware of the attitude indicator. Further to this, keeping hands and feet lightly on the controls, even with the autopilot in, is prudent and would have highlighted the thrust asymmetry as it occurred. Another great video Petter!
I appreciate the fact the you highlighted the effects of human factors in this unfortunate accident. If I may add, they might not be focused on their ADIs and the EWD especially the Captain for they might be fixated in their weather radar. Flying during monsoon season near the tropics sometimes require aviators just to avoid the "worst of it" and a lot of times we have to avoid multiple cells near each other. And most likely in this kind of weather other than you are in IMC you'll probably be having nasty turbulence as well and these things can affect your situational awareness as well. As a colleague in this industry, I would like to thank you for taking a different route on explaining to non aviators these tragedies and on always putting the "human aspect" to everything. Keep making em for I for one always pick up something in this vids. As the saying goes, always keep the blue side up.
Indeed, this could be right. Obviously the Pilots were very busy with dealing with the weather situation and to avoid some nasty areas and to stay well away from the other aircraft which departed shortly after them, so that they totally forgot to monitor the Throttle´s.
I am a long time aviation enthusiast and frequent flyer. These reviews rival and complement Mayday/Air Crash Investigation/Air Disasters, and that is a very well written show which I’ve been watching for almost 20 years. Absolutely fabulous stuff. Good news/bad news. Content of this quality is unlikely to remain “free” indefinitely. Tremendous job! ✈️
Now that I have finally started flight training, these type of situations feel so much more real and scary understanding exactly what is going on and the fear that these kind of things could happen to me. I hope this will always remind me to never slack off when flying
Not a pilot but interested in how the brain decides what actions we take. So much of the conclusions from these videos can be used in all walks of life . Because of your clear explanations and experience it's becoming essential viewing
While not being a pilot, I have appreciated your videos due to the lessons you share about the value of understanding how the mind works under stress, situational awareness, attention to detail, empowering procedure, practice and more. Such knowledge can be applied to individual acts like driving or tasks at work but also to corporate systems as well.
I also use aviation concepts in everyday life, especially deleging tasks to my "copilot" while driving and checklists for stressful and/or repetitive situations. Checklist for starting the rv, checklist for vehicle before hauling stuff, checklist for fire evacuation.
@Mentour Pilot Its definitely working, I’ve taken similar lessons from your videos myself. There are some curious similarities between our jobs in terms of importance of following safety SOPs even if it’s a little little slower or annoying than cutting those tiny corners. No doubt you’ll understand why when I tell you I’m an ACS agent cross trained in most of the ramp duties. (I’m not entirely compatible with spending time doing nothing waiting for another aircraft to clean and provide bowser service so I voluntarily undertook most of the ramp training so I can go out and assist them. If I’m working the shift passes faster.) Similarly the lessons in situational awareness transfer into my job and supplement the training already provided by my employer. You might be pleased to know that teaching me about how the mind works when startled and surprised have actually had practical applications during the nine months or so that I’ve worked on the apron, particularly right after a very near miss when the driver of our van somehow missed the incoming Ryanair 737 following the yellow line to taxi to the assigned aircraft stand. It was already beginning to turn to cross our path when we approached. I was seated behind the driver and we skimmed by so close that I could have reached out the window and patted the 737 on the nose. Once past the 737 I had to be firm in insisting the driver pull over at the nearest safe spot because the startle and surprise would make him far more likely to actually cause an accident if he continued to drive back to base. Besides it was inevitable that Airside Ops would come for him quickly so there really wasn’t any point to carry on driving and the easiest thing to do was just wait for them to arrive. Admittedly I’ve always wondered what went through the pilots minds during this incident. From my rudimentary understanding I doubt that there was anything they could do to stop quick enough. They were taxiing and apparently it can take a few seconds for the engines to spool down if they killed the engines or put them into idle and I have no idea if the parking brake is capable of stopping the aircraft while it’s taxiing. I still don’t know how he missed it, planes like that are not subtle. Similarly it’s helpful to simply be aware that prolonged stress and fatigue can affect the mind while I’m under those conditions out there. Having learned about CRM was the other main takeaway and sometimes I think it might be worth learning more specifics would be useful when our supervisor expects us to do something dumb like attempt to clean a 737 without a GPU yet available in the middle of a night shift. Fortunately that doesn’t happen often and most of the time I enjoy the job despite some of the downsides. Oh and if you ever fly into BRS and I’m around I’ll say hi.
@Y Coyle , I also find myself thinking in terms of situation awareness. I don't drive a car, but have had a few narrow squeaks because of careless or dangerous drivers - very narrow squeaks when I was off in my own world instead of paying attention to my surroundings. Turns out that listening to music while walking down the road is way too distracting.
Just a terrestrial here but I love to fly (commercially) and really enjoy Mentour’s channel. Unfortunately for my partner I now say things like, “situational awareness”, “bias” and talk about the concept of the power gradient amongst crew, in our everyday conversation …. Lol
Hello Peter, I really enjoy your breakdowns of accidents and near accidents. It makes them very understandable. I have about 15 hours in C-172 over 30 years ago, so I have enough real personal flight experience to be dangerous and not helpful. One thing I thought about watching the above video, has there been any discussion that you know of regarding changing the “Bank Angle” audible alert to include the direction? Something like “Bank Angle Left” in this case. We will never know if an alert like that would have triggered this captain to better recognize this event, but it seems to me it might have triggered his hyper focus on the yoke to recognized the incongruence between the yoke position and the alert for the “Bank Angle Left”. Perhaps he might have taken the moment longer to find his artificial horizon? I am a Paramedic by training and I am also very aware of alarm overload and fatigue in some situations. Adding extra detail to the audible alert may not be preferred for other very good reasons. Thanks for your time.
I love these videos! I'm in mechanical engineering and we come across many troubleshooting experiences similar to the venn diagram you showed, though not with such dramatic consequences. Just the other day we had replaced the transmission in a piece of machinery and the new transmission made grinding noises at every shift. we drained the oil, send a sample for analysis.. asked the manufacturer for oil fill procedures, checked and double checked again and again and still, in every test drive, that grinding noise came back. We put the machine on jackstands and ran some tests in the shop with one mechanic driving the machine with it's wheels off the ground and the other one sitting next to the open hood looking at what was going on in there. It turned out to be the powertrain assembly not being properly lined up on the engine mounts and the cooling fan being too close to the radiator shroud. At every gear change, the motor would jolt slightly and the fan blades were grinding against the shroud. All that time, the logic seemed to be that an issue fixed with the transmission must mean the this problem also came from the transmission! In any situation, never assume that what you think is happening is really what is happening!!
It shows the importance of always placing your hand on the thrust levers when the aircraft is in transition. (during take off, during climb, leveling off, starting a climb, starting a descend, during approach and landing, etc.)
These videos are absolutely the best, and presented in a non-accusatory fashion which is great. One observation that I seem to note after watching a lot of these videos is that there seems to be a remarkable (and to me unusual) tendency of some of the accident pilots to utterly ignore their AI and TC in abrupt upset situations. I am just a PPL rating, so have never been in the heavy iron situation, but during IFR training, the need to trust these and not your kinetic senses is hammered home. Seems that neither pilot did this, or maybe the FO was intimidated by the Captain and did not want to correct his actions. I wonder why? Sad in any case.
I FINALLY got it through my head the difference between autothrottle and autoPILOT! Yay, Petter! When you mentioned that the Captain hadn't looked down at his instruments for 20 seconds, hey, 20 seconds is a LONG time. A 5-to-10-second 6.0 earthquake feels like 10 minutes! I love you mentioning 'confirmation bias' and the 'startle effect', and the psychological effect of this intense stimuli event and the reflex action of the person. Your explanation of these psych effects, to me, indicate a lot of looking a lot of the actions you automatically do, plus the research you've done, impress me.
It's not the first accident that happens because an autopilot silently compensates for an unusual situation. The situation gets worse and worse, until a puzzling warning occurs or the autopilot disconnects itself entirely. Do you think some kind of earlier warning could be implemented into the autopilot? Something like "I am still managing what you told me to do, but this is getting increasingly difficult and I will shut down in X seconds". I think this could help this and other similar situations.
@Torten Schachtel No, but bad habits may cause airline or pilots to use asymmetric thrust as indigenous, temporary cure to not immediately cure-able problems arose inflight (e.g. ungoverned rolling/veering to one side, bad rudder response etc), more so if they are crossing ocean and lands are far from accessible.
@gloowacz I like your idea but I don’t think telling them how much the percentage is being useful. Rather, a “Attention, Thrust Asymmetry, left/right side, too low/high” would be sufficient, since the pilots should know the difference and which engine is the culprit when they look at the gauge and levers.
It was obvious plane was turning opposite direction despite all the effort of the AP, they could put a waring sound indicating plane is not turning as AP commanding. And implementing it would be easy, just write a simple piece of code which will measure the difference between control roll and actual roll indicated by the instrument.
@LiliumAtratum Indeed, exactly. That is what Petter mentioned at the end of his Video: In this special case an Airbus Sidestick would have been the better feature because he wouldn´t have distracted the pilot from looking at his instruments to understand what really was going on. A warning that a Throttle Split occured would have been indeed very useful in this case. It would have prevented the startle effect and therefore the panic reaction.
I was thinking the same thing. The main reason for the pilot's surprised reaction was that they did not get any prior warning that something was wrong. All the while, the auto-pilot could already have known what was wrong. If the auto-pilot would have warned that the auto-throttle was not reacting as expected, there would not have been any accident.
You would think after the 10th or 20th complaint, they’d do a major fix let alone 65th in which they replaced all the parts in the throttle system or definitively identified the source and fixed it. Edit: Petter partly explained how this was allowed to happen. Those pilots’ failure to report, it isn’t overly harsh to say, are also majorly to blame for this tragedy. And, yes, I’m aware the captain was one of the two pilots in the fatal flight.
@GodmanchesterGoblin Indeed. It remembers strongly to Air Asia Indonesia Flight 8501 where the Maintenance "fixed" the same repeatedly occuring problem dozends of times and never tried to sort the problem out.
Agreed. I have the impression that the reporting and logging failures were systemic in the airline culture (and possibly an indirect consequence of face-saving culture that is often seen in some parts of east Asia. Repeatedly "cleaning" connections most likely just gave time out somewhere else for the fault to go away temporarily. This is down to basic electrical / electronic fault finding skills. The failure to recognise that after 10 to 20 "fixes" the problem is still there and it really has some other cause is just shocking.
One of the things that alot of these stories shows me is that it's so easy to get into the habit of working around small problems and things which you can do to get the job done when there's not extra stress but when there is extra stress it's impossible to complete. The fact that there was no reporting of the asymetric thrust even when they overshot their altitude is really bad, similarly the failure of the regulator to either regulate for its internationally agreed upset prevention or even be aware that it wasn't being done makes you wonder how much else they missed... So many accidents could be avoided by people looking at the ADI and believing it with no external references, sensory disorientation is so easy to happen, it's scary how quickly the situation went from relatively easily recoverable to destruction, as you say understanding your aircrafts systems and interacting with them properly is vital.
Once again another excellent video, thank you to you and your team for continuing to produce these. I can't imagine it's easy studying and talking about the tragedies and loss of life, especially being a pilot yourself. I hope you're all looking after your mental health. Your passion for flying always comes through in these videos. Thanks again.
I have been studying patterns in flight disaster as it pertains to the Fine Structure Constant (137), or 24/58 (.4137); as well as how it pertains to electrical mechanical engineering biases in wave amplitude sample rates, and I have found a lot of repetitions in aviation fault specifically following your videos. Thank you very much for being persistent, and detailed with your work.
This is just so terrifying to me. All he did was be distracted for like 15 seconds and then turn the wheel and bam. All those lives lost. I'm a bit opposite of many comments. I never had a fear of flying before and flew quite a bit. Now after watching these videos, idk how we don't have more accidents. If just one detail is missed, one step taken incorrectly, it's done for everyone. I have so much more respect for pilots after this. Feel like I want to bring mine a huge gift basket on my next flight 😭
"If just one detail is missed, one step taken incorrectly, it's done for everyone." But it wasn't just one detail missed. It was the lack of proper maintenance, which ended in two systems failing (the autothrottle system and the CTS-system), that was combined with the pilots not monitoring their systems which led to being surprised and out of surprise reacting the wrong way (partly because of wrong training). I'd argue that this wasn't just one missed detail, but a lot of them on different levels, that had to come together.
The chairman of Canada's nuclear industry regulatory agency used to joke that he wished that the reactor operator chair could be equipped with automatic clamps. These clamps would automatically lock down the operator's arms for 5 seconds whenever a high level alarm came in. This would force the operator to first study the instrument panel and gain situational awareness, before releasing him to take action. He was joking when he said it, but he was also highlighting the risk of an operator taking action before they've read their instruments and formed a clear picture of the problem, and the required corrective action.
And practice doing this over and over until it becomes 2nd nature. It wouldn't be that hard to set something up training wise to at least semi replicate this.
Retired Navy nuke Engineer here. I was taught the same thing in my operational training. When a casualty occurs, the first Immediate action is to sit on your hands and analyze the situation.
I really enjoy how you break down how things like stress or shock impact decision making. These sorts of things affect us all, no matter our work, and it's really helpful to understand the bad decisions we make in our day to day lives and understand them a bit better.
I live in Tenerife but have to fly home to the UK quite often. I literally download your videos specifically to watch on the plane and it actually makes me feel safer. That’s because it gives me the confidence that so much thought and analysis goes into the aftermath of these terrible accidents that I can be very confident that statistically, it is basically impossible that the same thing will happen to me. Your video about the Los Rodeos incident (still the deadliest aviation accident in human history and one of the best videos on youtube) which took place here, brought about so much change in the industry that I can comfortably watch it on the plane and feel safe. I iust have to cover the screen so no other passengers catch glimpses of exploding aeroplanes while we’re taking off! Absolute respect to you and the team this content is some of the bet I’ve ever seen online. But please do the Spanish dubbed versions on a separate channel like mr beast does (not that i like his content particularly)but its an incredible idea as he reaches another massive audience and us spanish learners can improve our spanish while we’re enjoying your awesome videos! Thanks again. Love everything you do for us.
We love and are absolutely addicted to your content. We really appreciate they way this series narrates accidents and incidents and we love nerding out on all the mechanical, engineering or scientific explanations. We would love to see a video about the Spanair flight 5022 accident. Thank you very much for your content!
I remember this accident because this accident happened in my country, I remember seeing several videos on Twitter that recorded the silhouette and sound of a plane falling into the water, because the location is not far from a tourist spot called Pulau Seribu, even though we have just recovered from covid-19 and people were so delighted but this accident made the whole nation sad.
As an engineer, I am quite surprised that the auto systems didn't alert to when they are unable to perform their functions. Seems like it would be very useful for the autothrottle system to alert to an unexpected throttle position (say to due to a stuck throttle), regardless of asymmetric thrust. Likewise for the autopilot to alert to it hitting the limit of it's control range. Given human weakness at monitoring stuff, would have been better for an alert that something was wrong to come well before the bank angle alert.
It shows how important a proper instrument scan is for both pilots to engage in, not just peering out the windscreen like another bored passenger. Either one had ample opportunity to note the increasing thrust discrepancy.
@Jack T it's just crazy to me they didn't notice the different throttle positions when they're sitting right in front of the pilots. It's like they completely ignored their gauges while staring out of the windscreen. On my discovery flight it was made very clear that you need to scan everything and to make it a habit. While doing your scan you take a quick glance at each gauge individually so it becomes second nature.
@RicksGameMisc That´s indeed a very good question - especially because this specific Captain had experienced a Thrust Split with exactly this Aircraft. The Pilots simply messed totally up in this Case - really totally.
Literally making me think about how I would react in this situation When you said what would you do for a bank angle warning and I immediately thought control stick/yoke must turn left or opposite to what it is, to correct for the bank angle warning . ONLY to realize when we look at the bigger picture, that this action will only exacerbate the problem. My instructor tells me all the time I react too quickly without assessing the situation ( or picture ) first sometimes which leads to over correcting or making too much work for myself trying to get stable . I think from watching this video and trying to apply good habits/lessons , I need to actively try asses and understand the situation before my input into the aircraft. Thanks for the video's and hard work you guys put in to create the content
Another great, professional production! You should be commended for how you defend the pilots' actions by putting the situation in human terms. There was another extremely important aspect that you didn't touch on: the aircraft was in a significant skid, causing a lateral force on them, and initially right bank. This would have caused major spatial disorientation when they looked back at their instruments because their balance organs (otolith organs) would have been telling their brains one thing and their eyeballs telling them something very different. This disorientation is very difficult to overcome quickly, especially when compounded by the shock and surprise you pointed out. That said, why in the world weren't they looking at their instruments when they were in Instrument Flight Rule conditions?!
Thank you Petter for making these videos. As a video producer myself I appreciate how much work you and your team put into them. They are great! I have a personal reason for my interest in airplane accidents as the father of my childhood best friend was the copliot of Air Canada flight 162 which crashed in 1970 in Toronto. It remains on of the worst airline accidents in Canadian history. Sadly, years later, in 1982 my boyhood friend also died in a airplane accident while working as a pliot for a small air transport company in Estevan Saskachewan. I wonder if you would consider doing a video about Air Canada flight 162. Many thanks for your videos.
I always love your straightforward and non-biased videos. You also show compassion for any tragic incidences. I am a Patron member, and sometimes I will watch a favorite video more than once. I get Menor Pilot withdrawals waiting for new videos. 😉
10 years of inactions and one simple but incorrect action blew the whole house of cards in seconds. Crazy story and painful to watch once you already see where does it lead to. I was like "Please don't touch that yoke. Wait a sec and think."
@Mikoto It was a nearly 27 years old 737 Classic - so a really aged plane from a traditional Design. So, yes, maybe it would have been a better choice to make spare parts and coke shelter out of this aircraft. But this happened in the middle of the Pandemic with all its circumstances and a 737-500 would be principally a good choice if you have only few passengers to fly.
@No More That was actually one of the conclusions I reached when considering what the root cause was. That it pretty much had to be a quirk or flawed component of that individual aircraft so deeply embedded that it could potentially been just built into the airframe during construction or during one of the early repairs. Indeed the thought floated across my mind that with such a deep set problem so difficult to find and fix that maybe the airline would have been better off scrapping it for spare parts but immediately knew that the aircraft was simply too expensive for that.
@No More the QAR recorded 65 incidence of thrust asymmetry and 7 that year! The company seem to have changed the engine, greased a lot of parts, but not done enough to find the fault. After all, the pilots were reporting AP disengaging issues but not thrust asymmetry issues. That data was available and downloaded to the companies systems. The crash investigation team found it. Failures at multiple levels here.
I’ve seen so many comments about how good your videos are and how well they’re put together production wise, so I don’t feel I need to repeat the facts everyone else is saying 🤣 but I will say thank you for the hard work and fantastic professionalism you show when talking about such serious topics. I watch/listen to these video when I’m at work and they get me through the day :)
Another great video. I enjoy your retellings so much, I could post this same comment on all your videos. You focus in on the stuff that matters and convey a good understanding of the situation. Whatever crash or incident you pick, you make it sound like the most fascinating story yet. I'm particularly interested in your revealing and sympathetic thoughts about why the pilots may have reacted the way they did.
Hey Petter, though I'm not a pilot and have no plans to become a pilot, your videos on accidents and incidents are very helpful to truly understand different situations in our day-to-day life and decide our response, best suitable, to overcome it.
I was an Assistant Air Traffic Controller in the RAF working at the Rescue Coordination Centre at RCC Edinburgh at Pitreavie Castle outside Rosyth Scotland. I worked there from 1979 - 1983. We were responsible for the Nimrods and Yellow RAF Rescue Helecopters from 5230N and above. The nearest I got to being a pilot was getting my Wings as a Glider Pilot with the Air Training Corps. Why do I say this? I love your vlogs, I can relate to a lot of terms, and I appreciate you dumbing down/explaining to us less knowledgeable in all things piloting. You present a very thorough debrief into these accidents and explain why, when, and how things go wrong. Thank you for these vlogs, I always watch them from start to finish and always leave the vlog with a clear understanding I didn't have before the vlog. Thank you for all you do, Petter. The narration and videography is second to none.
Very nice video again! After watching all these videos, I might be biased myself by my addiction to the airbus philosophy of how to use and integrate technology and especially automation, but it would be interesting to have an overview or comparison of the effect of the control design on this kind of accidents. My feeling is, that the "classic" control design used by boeing more often makes it harder for the pilots to keep correct situational awareness whenever something like that struck lever occurs. I personally can't understand that an automatic system that should move two levers synchronously doesn't stop way before the situation gets that much asymmetric. As a technician I would expect a margin of max 5-10%, but here it seems that nearly 80% difference occurred before the system recognized an irregular condition. For me from my (non aviation) point that seems to be a hard design flaw that should have been eliminated years before, due that there happened more accidents based on that strange system behavior.
In this case it was clearly a secondary technical fault of the Aircraft, as Petter mentioned in the Video. I don´t know if there´re any differences in this direction between the 737 Generations. This was a 737 Classic => a "Second Generation" 737 (the 737 MAX being the fourth Generation), so an older Design.
The ability of this team to organize and condense 200 pages of information into a comprehensible, educational, and engaging presentation is incredible! I am curious as to what the “satisfactory by briefing” entails in a proficiency check. Both pilots had SBs related to non-normals. Is there additional education provided? I just wonder if it is significant that this was an issue in both pilots proficiency check, or is it a common occurrence that would not raise any red flags?
Easy to see how this happened. Just thinking about the not paying attention thing, I nearly wrecked my car a week ago because of it. Combination of factors, including the time it takes the mind to process what’s going on. By the time I realized how slow the car that pulled in front of me was going I didn’t have time to brake, so I braked and swerved. What I didn’t notice was someone had just lane changed to be next to me. If I hadn’t happened to look mid swerve, I would have hit them for sure. It’s easy to become complacent doing these daily tasks, like driving (or in this case flying) and not pay as much attention as we should because things most of the time go right. But that leaves us unprepared for when things go wrong. These air accidents are great to learn from, because often when the human factor is involved, the lesson can be applied to other areas of life and not just aviation. Stay defensive, pay attention!
You are way too kind. I’m not even a pilot, yet I know how important it is to keep an eye on the artificial horizon. That and the huge offset of the throttles; something more must have been going on psychologically or mechanically for a captain with near 10k hours on that model aircraft.
Petter, I just have to say I have been watching your channel for over 2 years now, and I love and appreciate your patience in explaining what is happening in clear, concise terms. You explain thoroughly what is happening to the aircraft, what the pilots are seeing and doing, and on occasions, what the cabin crew and passengers are experiencing as it affects the situation. You give us the facts, visuals, etc, without over dramatic re-enactments that detract from our ability to concentrate and absorb the issue. I hope that flight schools, pilot trainers, and others are using your videos as training tools to show new pilots what can go wrong and how it was dealt with before. You don't just focus on crashes, but also those cases when things have gone severely wrong and the crew has saved the situation, which is just as important a lesson as the ones that fail. One way it could be used training wise is to run the pilot through a simulator of the accident, then watch your video, then back into the simulator to see if they can improve.
Nobody cares about your stories unless you go buy NordVPN's proxy services. That's all Mentour cares about. If you aren't buying Nord, then frankly you should stop enjoying this content.
Thank you very much for this very informative lecture about the reasons for this horrible crash,.which we all can probably remember very well. It was indeed much worse than I've imagined. Nearly all Lines of Defence failed, not only the last one. But the last one was finally deadly. RIP to all of the Victims!
I don't have much to add.. the comments speak for themselves.. I just want to tell about myself.. I have always been extremely afraid of flying. You have no idea how difficult it was for me to get through a flight. In the last six months after I discovered this channel and saw all the videos, something changed in me.. In the last three flights I used to sit and wait for fear.. nothing happened.. the fear disappeared completely.. and on the contrary I found myself reassuring other people.. I want to say thank you From the heart! Waiting for every new video with great excitement!
That is really sad to sit there for hours in fear. It would have probably helped to have a little therapy dog, sitting w/you throughout the flight. I'm glad you no longer fear flying. Mentour Pilot is very generous in sharing his expertise.✈
@MB Voelker Lol! My sister is afraid to fly and I'm afraid of spiders. One day we were traveling down the road when I saw a spider on my window and freaked out so my dad pulled over and told my sister to get it. She said to my dad "Oh brother, it's just a little thing"! I said "Well, planes can be too, but you wouldn't board a little one, either"!😉
It's often said that we fear what we don't understand. The greater your understanding of how aviation works and the chain of unlikely events that cause accidents the less you fear. :)
Just wake up and watched the entire video. Petter, your channel is not just about learning air accidents and incidents. It's about raising awareness towards aviation industry. Please, I'm begging you to create more investigation debrief for my country's air accidents and incidents. Thank you for creating this. I always watch your videos 1-18 hours upon published.
As an ex B777 pilot we were bias against Airbus with its non-moving thrust levels. However after 11 years flying the A320 it’s a great machine and very well thought out. Looking forward to my A350 course next month. 😊. Startle factors can lead to ‘chimp’ response which made the situation far worse. We ‘cage’ the chimp and rebuild situational awareness before appropriate action. Very interesting, thanks.
Man, the way you showed us why the captain did what he did was something else. Unreal. And yes, this is the first time I've heard of an accident where the position of the control yoke played a role. Also, 1) If you're using FS2020, which 737 mod is that? 2) Would the Cruise Thrust Monitoring System be activated if the flaps are *at* 12.5°?
It happens more than you fathom. A yoke can be to the right and the plane goes to the left. The rigging was twisted at the rudder. The plane is at least 130 feet long. That cable comes from the yoke to the tail. Too bad it was not tested prior to flight. One thing leads to another. Always.
I so look forward to your videos and wish you could post more. They are so educational they have made me feel like I could help crew if they were in trouble. But unfortunately am so scared of flying these days 😕. The thought of flying feels me with dread . How can this change considering I have travelled lots and lived in uk for nearly 20 years travelling back and forth lots .
I am an aircraft mechanic and when we “clean/reset connectors” it’s our way of doing *something* to clear a write up when we can’t duplicate a discrepancy on the ground or don’t feel like digging any deeper. It’s sad but it’s the reality. Pilots, if you ever see this sort of corrective action for a write up, it’s probably not really fixed and will probably come back.
@Daniel Cooke On the jet I worked on, we have a device called the DDTU, which is a digital data transfer unit. We have a requirement to check it after EACH flight and record and work any major faults listed on there. The DDTU is basically the same thing as the device on this 737.
Read through all these responses, take your view on who is realistic, consider who is commercially viable. Which responder has the luxury of unlimited time. Who is trying to do a good job and who just likes arguing. Imagine being a pilot and attempting to describe some of a problem to these argumentative pendants... would you try a second time? Imagine this lot are your maintenance crew; who would you give the tricky problem to? Mr Black and White, or the realists. The man most interested in avoiding prosecution so a box ticker, or Mr Teflon who wont help but always judges. Its little wonder problems escape detection let alone rectification. To the original mechanic Jochen saying watch out; more power to you. At least hes recognising humanity and is telling the truth. Perhaps the one bit not mentioned is this; it depends on who reports a fault. Some people report every squeak, but get very angry if a lowly mechanic tells them they are wrong. The senior man who rose through the ranks on merit and still remembers the daily challenges of the lower ranks is a very rare man. Normally you just get screamed at to fix it already.... I suspect Mentour Peter would make a very good supervisor in maintenance as he understands how expensive mistakes are. But he would only be promoted in an affluent company.
@Michael Frey I'd say that a mechanic shouldn't look at what time the plane is scheduled to take off. I know that they do, and are maybe more or less forced to do so by their supervisors, but the safety of the plane should be top priority. My brother is a mechanic and he says that he doesn't let them force him to release a plane if he doesn't think it is safe to fly. In the end it's your signature on the form and if it all goes tits up, you have to answer the difficult questions. Also, you have to live with it... I wouldn't do it. Now I don't work in the industry (I'm in IT) but I did refuse to do things that are similar to signing off on something that isn't right. I don't care if they'd fire me for such a reason. At least I have a clear conscience. Maybe they should show this series to people in airline management, because there are more accidents that are maybe not 100% to blame on management pushing for a bad decission, but their attitude did contribute to the accident. Usually there are multiple reasons for a disaster (the Swiss cheese is a brilliant analogy) and obviously a pilot/captain shouldn't let himself be pushed to make a wrong decission. But in the end, we're all humans, and we make mistakes.
I was an airplane mechanic for only 2 years, but I experienced many interesting things during that time. Competence and maintenance deficiencies. For example, I found scissors in the vertical control plane. (actually it was forgotten after maintenance) It would have really caused a lot of trouble if he moved. (I noticed it when changing the film of the black box) p.s. The "black box" was of course yellow! Even I made a mistake: I was dealing with military aircraft and a red alert occurred during the exchange of standby aircraft. I had already shut off the oxygen system, but I was not able to depressurize it yet, so nothing indicated this to the pilot. The shift was interrupted due to the red alert. Due to a red alert, the machine had to be started (this is also my task) and only approx. After 1 minute, I realized that I had already closed the machine's oxygen system. I quickly got out of the starter car, and quickly opened the 2 oxygen valves. Fortunately, there was no deployment. If the pilot had had an accident because of this, I don't know how I would have taken it! Back to flying: Artificial horizon!!! THIS is the most important thing I would have looked at that right away! If that's okay, there's time for something else...
@Tom’s Travels Like you said, not an intermittent fault ( say something that only occured when the machine was airborne but everything worked perfectly on the ground) but a hard fault and dead easy to diagnose and repair.
I been watching the videos for about a month now and I love it the details you go through it's amazing and not only on technical side but also on human side your explanation is fantastic, helped me understand how someone could not see something obvious. I'm not a pilot, I just flew in WWII sim's sometime ago, I know some thing so for me they way you doing things is absolute perfection. Love the work and the accent 💙
Peter, I like your videos so much, I even cought myself watching your entire commercial. Great content which teaches you a bit of everything, aviation, psychology, physics, weather, geography, technical stuff etc.. Love your voice and humble attitude and wisdom telling these one of a kind stories. Thank you for making so many episodes and cheers to bingewatching. Greetings from Prague!
Welcome to the club. I find myself neglecting or postponing other priorities to binge addict watch these videos. I was a plane mechanic up until 1985 but still never forgot my love of aviation. Thus these rekindled the spark.
Thank you Team Mentour for all the detailed videos! I'm sure I've said this before but I'll say it over and over- the content here is top-notch! Thank you for explaining things in a way even those who aren't in the industry can understand. Keep up the amazing work and keep safe in the skies, Petter!
FEEDBACK As always, a great detailed video. RIP to those who perished and my condolences to the families. @Peter, if you could mention the correct actions the crew should have taken to correctly recover the aircraft, that would be great. In this case, after the severe upset had happened, what were the correct things to do in order to recover and get the aircraft under control. If you could pay special attention to this point in all your coming videos, I will be super grateful.
Was the issue of the Auto-Throttle ever found out? Why was it happening, not as an educated guess, but with a precision of reasonable cause. - I have had similar failures, while being the Component Reliability Engineer for several leading electronics corporations, including but not limited to aerospace industry. - What it really shocked me about your video on on the JS 182 was your comment which stated that the computer box or the controller box for the Auto-throttle, can most of the time be fixed with a good clean up of the connections.- Peter, I may be long in explaining it, but that is a real no-no - which leads or aggravates the condition of intermittent circuitry on most electronics controlled by connectors which are wired. Like one of your collegues here in youtube would say: Let me explane: There are at least 4 factors working against this flight or any other flight since the jet was a 27 year old, with shoddy maintenance records during apparently 1/3 of its lifespan. I will exhibit in here, the principal of connections in a computerized system. - Just like an aircraft or any craft for that matter, a connector does have a limit as to the healthy number of connections it can perform. - A connector durability or life span is not measure in month or years, but rather in the number of cycles it can handle.- Lets say for example, a connector type for a database bank, ( and this is for an example reference in general only) with an RJ45 connector. - the connector in the cable is the male end, and the connector on the bulkhead or flange is the female receptacle.- in most of the times, this type of connection is considered"...semi-permanent..." -meaning that it will be kept connected during operation, with only completing a cycle or two during maintenance. So, when the maker of the controller orders the connectors, via their specification drawing orders a number of connector sets, for semi-permanent operation. There are versions of the same connector, usually for permanent, semi permanent, minimum cycle, medium cycle, maximum cycles, for commercial, industrial, and for aerospace. The base unit of the connector is the same. What it changes is the plating which covers the bare material, and allows for a uniform distribution of the electrical signal going throughout the cable into its pertinent destinatary inside the receptacle with each pin then routing the signal for every position in the connector. - Then, What is the difference between each different grade of the same connector? The answer is the thickness of the plating on each pin of both ends of the connection, so much in the male as within the female end. - For example, for a semi-permanent operation, the gold plating of each pin does required ( for commercial application operating between 0 degrees C - 70 degrees C ) is 15 uin [ micro inches ] for one step up in effective performance, you have a typical of 30 uin, for industrial typical use is 50 uin; / 75 uin, and for aerospace the minimum is typically 100 uin -{ uin = micro inches } - so, the first 15 uin may last 500 cycles of insertion / extraction. the 30 uin, goes up 1500 cycles. - The thicker the plating, whether gold or other elegant metal for uniform transmissivity, the more reliable the connector and cable combo. And since a cable / connector combo only achieve success when there are a functional item. - One of the typical problems with the industry is that entire outfits who manufacture either connectors and or wire harness or cables, change hands from time to time, thus change methodologies and product lines. Sometimes, that enables a delay delivery of the proper item, and then the purchaser is forced to use a substitute. While a substitute is always meant for temporary use, most of the time, becomes a permanent fixture of the assembly since it is found to be "working properly" - however, the subs, are in most instances provided with lower thickness of plating on each connector pin. - Which leads to a general condition known as "dissimilar metal contact" - Here is the kicker: Dissimilar metal contacts, when come into play together into a cycle of insertion/ extraction, wears out far faster than similar metal contacts. with the contact having a thicker plating eroding the metal having a thinner plating contact. The end result, is what is called in the electronic connector industry as "...gouging..." which in plain English means gashes or interruptions on the plating exhibiting the bare metal of the contact. - This in turn, along with movement and vibration, causes small interruptions in a given pin making contact with a socket. These interruptions, are very temporary and short lived.- Yet are unpredictable as to when the pins of the connection are going to create a short or open, it is like there are dancing to the compass of the vibrations and sudden moves, while changing their position accordingly due to external forces. - This "...intermittency..." is what leads to people to do not report the problem. - because is a symptom of an unpredictable behavior - and most are afraid of reporting what could end resulting on nothing at all. - Yet the this type of box for the A/T it is usually checked, while the aircraft is parked in a hangar, without the load of engine nor the vibration of the wind. Thus is like maintenance never gets to see the fault in actual action. Furthermore, to clean a gouged surface on a pin connector is contaminating and corroding the rest of the plating residing on the gouged pin just cleaned up. So, it may work for a little while, however as soon as it the solvent cleaning dries up, it goes back to dance to the rhythm of the forces of gravity and vibrations.- The other thing is it may begin to send really unwanted signals, to the computer, which could potentially become uncontrollable. Like sometimes, your little Chinese headphones (3.5mm) you plug into your laptop, may experience a conductor breakage on the tail of the strain relief, causing a video to jump to a different location in time on the video, or losing audio. same effect, - I had to solve problems like this when ATARI was the name of the game in video games. - It took 98,853 turns of a joystick to show the actual visible catastrophic damage, on a bare eye look. - However, when this type of failures do take place, begins, far before the evident failure. These type of failures are called "...latent...." failures.- I did also an evaluation for LSI Logic, with their then called "VIDEO DAC" and actually put a couple of semi conductors to pay us via lawsuit. Just the same as if a fin of a turbine engine would have an internal inherent crack to its own manufacturing processes. We do now what the potential risk for that is.- This minute items, under constant pressure and heat of the transmissivity of the signal though a wire or connector, or from within a tiny bubble of trapped air, could bring an aircraft down. There are a lot of situations, in which the connectors must be changed over every so often. - Yet, with technology changing so rapidly, unfortunately it also does change the manufacturing focus of connector manufacturers. I am a witness to that, and even though you can customize with adapters, the problem is that by adding up equipment, you are also changing the operational characteristics of the actual connection. For one, you increase resistance, thus increase the internal temperature of the connection, thus degrade the signal transmissivity, since heat and temperarture are the worst enemies of any electronic element. - with also changing or delaying the speed of the connection signal, which may need to be acquired within a specific window of time in order to respond in a proper and timely manner. - and on a repeatitive motion this couild accumulated in a dangerous way, to the point that the system may not be able to interprete the signal, may get what we called in the failure world "...stuck at fault...." and freeze or even worse, shut down completely. the crew of SJ 182, had been distracted by a case for which no pilot had been trained for. And that is the reliability of system connections. - Believe me when I tell you, that things had change quite a bit in electronics world in the last 28 years. I 've had my degree on Reliability and Maintainability Engineering in 1982 - With a practical test performed under the then American Society for Qualilty Control, at Lockheed Ames Research Facility in California.- A whole day exam. I was previous to the last to leave the exam room. The aerospace experience, had it at Loral Aerospace, - with some little bullets flying over the ocean. I told them "no you can not program EPROMS without protection and having make fly to target. They've asked me why : My reply was because you get UV at high altitude. - Some of the programmers walked off the room. The system to make these EPROMs containing target data, re-programmable, was, that it was erasable. - How you erase them? via exposing them in close little box to U.V. rays for about 2 minutes.- EPROM = eraseble programmable Read Only Memory ( a dinosaur by now ). I hope you can appreciate my point of view.
Thank you very much for your extensive additional informations, allthough I´m not an Engineer. No, the original Reason for the Failure of the Throttle´s was never detected, as Petter said in the Video and as the Final Report stated. The FDR didn´t cover it and the Throttle System itself was too destroyed after the Crash to get any information out of it. The Investigators stated only in their Final Report, as Petter mentioned, that it is likely that some mechanical issue occured inside of the system, which was never searched and therefore never found by the Maintenance Crew.
You and your team continue to explain these incidents and tragedies in a way that anyone can follow while still maintaining just enough technical education to truly set yourselves apart. Thank you to all you at Mentour for giving us in depth and easy to understand summaries of these often tedious and insanely long and detailed reports (I studied aerospace engineering, and I still remember doing case studies on air incidents as part of our undergrad) to help tell the world why flying is so safe today!
Hah, that’s similar to my experience with the introductory training to working safely on the apron and aircraft stands. When the training video featured past incidents to teach us not to do the same or similar things I felt a sinking feeling when I realised I’d already learned it from this channel and knew what was about to happen, particularly during my ramp training about the importance of loading and labelling cargo properly and what things are hazardous such as lithium batteries. I recognised UPS flight 6 immediately and I still feel sympathy for that poor first officer and what he endured alone for the final minutes of his life. But yeah much of the things I’ve learnt from this channel built the foundation of my understanding of aircraft which I’ve since built on. 😆 You know that the lessons have truly sunk in when he apologised for being technical at the start of this video and the responding thought was “this is technical?” Before the thought scatters while following the narrative.
Thanks for this interesting insight and RIP all the victims. It clearly shows how difficult it can be for us humans to react in such a demanding situation and avoiding the same is key.
your videos are so amazing. You tell a great story, with just the right touch of tech info, & you never descend into pointless blaming---it is always a quest to understand & improve. I wish my dad were still alive---if I could have got him thru the technicalities of using KZclip, he'd have loved your channel. He trained as a pilot in WWII, then was badly injured in a training accident before he could really see any action. I am wondering if you ever had the opportunity to fly any military aircraft---I thought of that watching the" flying wing" video last week. Keep up the great work!
Hello mentour pilot. Can you please review PIA 8303. It's a very interesting crash that includes a bizarre act by the pilots of retracting the landing gear just before landing. We could really learn a lot from your analysis of the crash.
Thank you for your channel. Clear, informative and focused. It is clear that any automated or regulated system is ultimately dependent on human input, and human input is wildly unpredictable, due to multiple influences, including culture, money and health. In the interest of passenger safety, there should be much tighter - voluntary - regulation and auditing of airline operations, as a pre-condition for international operations. As we now discover that no one regulator is immune from serious deficiencies (Boeing/FAA certification fiasco), this should include frequent (quarterly) neutral inter-agency audits. Those who meet all requirements will have the least burden from such audits. It will require a lot of auditors, but I suspect they will save much more than their number in unnecessary aviation deaths. Accidents and incidents will not be eliminated (perfection is impossible), but greatly reduced amongst voluntary participants. Unwilling operators would be reduced to national (domestic) flights/activities, or in the case of agreements between unwilling participant countries, international flights between known non-participants. Direct bottom-line (financial result) pressure is the only pressure understood by most commercial operations, and professionals such as you will find your good influence and intent totally eliminated by poor (unconscionable) high-level management decisions and controls.
It is crazy how clear the way you explained this matter, even though I'm Indonesian and we have quite a few explanation too by our own aviation people, but the way you told the whole story is so easy to understand. Thank you, Petter!
Heard some really short news clips on radio about some near miss incidences in USA over the last week. I hope you make a video about what is up with that soon. You always provide way more info than any news coverage. I really appreciate your extremely detailed explanations.
Really great video from you as always! I use this airline quite often before financial trouble hit them. After kinda worrying about financial trouble will impact the safety, this incident sadly happen. Really want to know what happen but report not as easy to understand to people who have limited knowledge about airline industry and airplane itself. Your video really a great resource to fully understand what happen and hopefully this tragedy will be a lesson learned for any airline. Sad to see this to happen after what happen with Lion Air 610.
I’ve been noticing that your video quality be it old or the newer uploads have been consistently really really good! Kudos to you and your team. A lot of people tend to not watch old videos of a creator assuming that the quality/format won’t be as good as their recent uploads, but that’s not the case with your channel! Thank you and keep up the good work!!
I know I'm hooked when I saw a story about the air Canada Rouge flight that diverted to Jacksonville and was like, "man, I can't wait for Mentour to tell me what went wrong and explain normal, alternate, and direct law again".
Some things feel obvious when watching a 30-min breakdown of the accident but a simulation at the end showing how all this happened in just a few seconds may give more perspective (I think you've done it in some previous video)
Kudos for making this video 👍 iam a pilot in Indonesia. And this accident touched me quite a lot because some of my friends lost their loved ones and some have flown with the capt when theyre still working at sriwijaya. Remember.. keep the blue side up 👍
I love this Channel. There's something so earnest and genuine about Petter, the way he relays the events but also the context and insight his experience have earned him. This has never been your average aviation content - this is the gold standard.
I’ve always looked for your videos to understand aviation accidents because you’re so good at explaining them. Any chance you could do Alaska Airlines 261? I find it so fascinating yet horrifying
I send these to my 20 year old son in flight training. Scares the crap out of me and hopefully gives him examples of what not to do. Thank you for making these in a non sensational manner.
1.41m subscribers…..wow! You must be absolutely amazed and amazed and proud of what you and your team have achieved, Petter! Congratulations 🥳 ps another great and well researched video as always. Thank you. I guess if they had a much higher altitude then they may have been able to recover.
I've been watching your content for a little while and I've been enjoying it a lot. While its never great that airlines crash and have incident, they way you cover it is in the right manner and I appreciate that. An incident that I think you would be interested in is Alaska Flight 261 and would be interesting to see covered.
24:03 I'm not a pilot but when you're flying in clouds and hear "Bank Angle" warning, shouldn't you look at the attitude indicator and maybe backup attitude indicator to figure out what to do, instead of looking or feeling the yoke? When you consider what could possibly fail in a modern jet, attitude indicator is maybe the most reliable data input you can have.
I think that's one thing I've picked up from a few of these videos - although we like to think that every Captain is going to be a Chuck Yeager who will react with 'ice cool' logic in a surprising situation or upset, most pilots are normal humans - if they're not getting regular training on upsets they can just freeze or brain fart like the rest of us.
A family member worked on the maintenance facility company at the time the crash happened. The company was in a lot of financial trouble, struggling to find funds/income, and this specific plane actually was serviced in the city that my relative worked in, if i remember correctly. This crash devastated the company basically, which is already a mess. well idk if this significant information but i thought it's worth a share.
Excellent and interesting as always Petter. One question I have. On dual engined planes (and maybe even 4 engined) when is there ever a requirement to run one engine at a higher thrust than the other during normal operation? Has anyone ever considered having the thrust levers mechanically joined so that they cannot move independently with some kind of physical or electronic over-ride to "unjoin" them in the event that this is required?
I bet this is not the only circumstance when one needs to check multiple things that are working against each other to notice what the problem really is (in this case surplus thrust causing left turn but yoke turned to the right)
Always surprised how pilots fail to notice a critical control tool that's right next to them. I always imagine failing to notice that my car is in a high gear instead of low gear when the lever is right next to me
A great part of my enjoyment is the 'incredibly technical' explanations. Most of which I can follow, and the rest which become evident as you lucidly and coherently explain a difficult subject. Thank you for respecting the intelligence of your viewers and keep the 'incredibly technical' explanations coming.
Many thanks. I had flown with Sriwijaya several times not long before this occurred (between Jawa and Sumatra) and was of course shocked and saddened by the accident. But until today I didn't know what was the cause.
As a professional driver (18 years) I was taught always scan your gauges mirrors every few seconds. You wouldn't believe how many problems prevented by doing this. ALL PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS HOLDING OTHER PEOPLE 'S LIVES SHOULD DO THIS. ALWAYS!!!!!!???
Petter, I really love these videos. Obviously, these are tragic events, but I'm convinced everybody could learn from this, not just airline employees. Safety culture is something that's not universally shared among people. But I must say that I was a bit shocked to see that an experienced pilot was sort of panicking and taking the wrong action. You'd think that experienced pilots would take a deep breath and at least scan the instruments before doing something wrong. In my mind it would just take a second or two to see what was going on and at that moment it would be relatively easy to correct. Just like with the other flight that experienced the same problem. In the end you never know how you react in a sudden emergency situation untill it happens. I myself had a few scary situations in a car and on the motorcycle where I was happy to find out that I didn't panic and hit the brakes immediately and/or turn the steering wheel, like many people do in a panic reaction. But like you indicated, these pilots had just one session with the upset scenario. I was thinking that in flight school with simulators, they'd train more with sudden emergency scenarios so that you learn to remain calm and not panic and make the situation worse. So, keep 'm coming, your videos are really the best in this category. Your no-nonsense, no sensationalism, no stretching for time and trying to build up the suspense like Air Crash Investigation, is highly appreciated. Just the facts and great background information so that we really understand how it all works. Discovery should hire you to do that show 😂
I've always enjoyed your videos, but this is the most fascinating one I've seen yet. You did a *great* job of putting us in the pilot's mind when he got the bank angle warning; that was the best part of a great video.
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@Rafique Rafique redundancy.
whens the follow up to how the Russian airlines are doing since they were embargoed
@toastercatx No need for bike riders in cities whatsoever.
I know you probably get comments like this all the time, but I’m completely addicted to these videos despite not being an aviator myself. My parents are/were in the industry (ATC and instructor) but taught me a lot more about meteorology (even did some storm chases with my dad). I’ve always enjoyed flying and having the parents I do made me very unafraid of flying, but now I feel like I can actually nerd out a little with them.
@Mentour Pilot Is it normal for an airline to use a plane of that age? 27 seems very old in terms of technology? Just curious!
You and thousands of others-- possibly including me...
@Gurabiriero Sanopara people didn't freak out nor did she share too much. Wowzers .
@Mentour Pilot you’re an amazing pilot sir
This series is fantastic. I can’t get enough. My son has his pilot license and a small plane. Getting some of your merch for his birthday.
As Indonesian, watching this accident breakdown feels like getting hard punch in the face. This accident shows how our regulators and airline itself really messed up on maintenance and pilot training (or lack of) that led up to this disaster. I hope that they really learn from this disaster to actually improve AND implement recommendations from final report.
Thanks to Mentour Pilot, you guys really doing amazing work as always. Do not stop doing this, it's really helpful to the society. Cheers
Indonesia has several accidents like that
@Paweł G Even without money, Poland has a good safety record, thanks to skilled pilots who have a lot of common sense.
Money is not always the answer.
I'm from Poland and I often hear complaints from my natives about some things in my country compared to similar things in more Western and richer countries. Well those things are better there, because they have much more money to take care of those things!
@Sharon Cassell Indeed.
Most people are ignorant of flight ops. We just fly as pax and relax or are shaking in our boots in fear because of lack of understanding. Thank you for casting light on the subject. Now people have a choice to fly or not. Knowledge gives leverage.
With close to 25000 hours my career has gone from steam dials to full automation and a glass cockpit but my scan pattern has never changed . I am not an armchair quarterback but to miss a throttle split of that magnitude between not 1 but 2 experienced pilots is hard to understand . Well taught habits and patterns hopefully stay with you . Thanks for your technical and thorough evaluation of these unfortunate accidents . 22:31
@George Dyson I understood what you said and have the same thought. But then, the answer of the puzzle ends in... sadly..., very simple but cold reality: Complacency 😱.
And luck (or out of it) as well. What the pilot saw first wasn't the true effect of the banking, but the result of compensating one. So his effort of correcting was actually what making it even worse. Maybe it's like instinctively trying to correct left spin stall by steering the yoke to the right, or trying to stop skidding car by braking it even harder.
@Gordon Kachuk I fear the answer is simple: When you don´t look at them.
I totally agree Richard. There is nothing to see outside and all attention should be on the scan. How can you miss a throttle split like that and an unusual attitude (yaw) clearly recognizable during an instrument scan.
This is what puzzled me. I would have thought that pilots would constantly check what the settings of the controls were in the plane. Looking at the instrument panel, checking thrust lever positions, stick etc just to be sure the autopilot was operating as expected. There seem to be so many ways that the autopilot can try to compensate for switch settings, weather and malfunctions that it should never be left unsupervised. I struggle to believe that the different thrust settings could have been missed.
Very well done 👏
As an aeronautical engineer I often become distraught at the way information regarding aviation issues is presented in the media and especially on social media … but definitely no such occurrence when it comes to your content or the way it has been presented.
Congratulations, your work and the work of your support team deserves high praise.
Thank you for raising the bar and for freely sharing quality content.
The Air Morocco delayed take off springs to mind.
@Mentour Pilot yeah, this example is a highlight of how reflexively taking action.... may or may not be a good idea. The pilot acted on reflex... when he needed more info.
@Mentour Pilot When you get a moment, take a look at my reply above and tell me what you think. Thanks, Wills.
Thank you for your kind words! That’s exactly what we are aiming for 💕
I worked on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner as an IBM software architect on their Boeing Electronic Distribution of Software (BEDS) system, and I have appreciation of how much more complex it is to fly any plane. A modern plane has so many systems and modes that it is absolutely mind boggling. Mentour Pilot shares these aspect very well but what I really like is how he explains the psychology and circumstances that are going on. I love his videos. He has a cute dog too.
My favorite aspect of your work is your overall calmness. You have a cool demeanor and this strikes me as an absolutely necessary trait for a pilot. How much of that is "in your genes" and how much of it is learned behavior?
I note you also have a beautiful dog. My dogs are very useful in sensing when I need to chill, and in helping me to take things down a notch. Do you find that dog contact helps you in this way?
Bring on the beta-endorphins!
THANKS, PETTER!!
@vip vip Yes. Some of the hardware uses it in embedded system hardware.
Hi, does 787 use i386dx? And which servers used in boeing windows, linux, or ibm?
When I first began driving school as a teenager, my instructor said something very important: in an emergency we often revert to the habits we learned first, so it is very important to learn the right behaviors first. That advice has saved my life more than once. For professional aviators, I imagine that making sure to bypass certain instincts, looking at the instrument panel, and avoiding confirmation bias are probably some of the important life-saving habits. The 1500 milliseconds it takes to ask “what is really going on” to break the spell could make all the difference.
This is also very true on motorcycles where a bad panic response can very easily lead to your demise.
@Blue5 I was a devout christian foe 15 years. It's fine if you're not believing me.
Ask me anything about christian and I'll answer it right away
@Blue5 I've tried that for 15 years, the only voices I heard is from my own brain
@Lasty Hopper Ask out loud, are Angels real or fiction...see what answer you get?
It is peculiar to think that this series has been going for so long that you are now covering accidents that happened after you started making these.
These are still the best airline accident analysis videos on KZclip.
I dont know about that....
Good point, we’ll made!
👍
To me as a passenger it looks like a good idea to make it mandatory for all pilots to watch everything on the Mentour Pilot channel. There is so much to learn from everything that went wrong!
I really appreciate the emphasis on how humans can be expected to respond given certain circumstances.
Too often, people attribute failures to human error without considering human psychology and how circumstances contribute to the failure.
Thank you for continually demonstrating how to properly analyze failures! Keep it up!
Putting me in the pilot's seat when the "bank angle!" warning sounded was perfect. As soon as you showed me what he saw my first thought was, "oh no he's going to turn it to the left."
@GreenFace Vault Indeed.
Same. Before, I strongly felt that it's "pilot error", and couldn't undertand at all why the pilot failed to see the very impirtant things like the attitude indicator or thrust levers or this or that (I watched other channel about this particular accident).
Watching that scene in this video, I'm become a bit more "aaah I see...".
Yes, indeed.
It's sad when these accidents occur because of a persistent mechanical issue that is never properly diagnosed and fixed. In my opinion every system in a passenger aircraft should be considered critical, especially those that directly impact the flight characteristics of the aircraft. It's not like when the "Check Engine" light comes on in your car.
Thanks Petter, great video as always.
As a retired 737 captain, I’m blown away by the lack of monitoring of flight instruments and controls to allow this sort of thing to happen, and the lack of reporting of events that eventually lead up to this.
But then, it is Indonesia, so sadly, hardly surprising.
Remember (amongst so many others) Adam Air. 😢
Some will say I’m being harsh, but the runs are on the board.
Indeed. I would also add Air Asia Indonesia Flight 8501 were nearly the same negligence of the Maintenance happened as in this case.
Petter, I wanted to publicly praise you and the Mentour production crew. The information and explanations are, as always, top-notch but the improvements in video or text overlays, maps, digital reenactments and the like have not gone unnoticed.
Thank you, each and all.
Definitely want to express my agreement here. The production values on your videos are very high, which meshes very well with your high standards for information accuracy and detail to create a very complete and easily understood picture of the events you describe. You and your team do excellent work across the board.
@Subramaniam TG thanks friend! We all love what we do!
Thanks Petter, Dom, and team! You guys are legends. Absolutely love the hard work and detail you put into every episode.
I agree. Especially appreciated the music background this time... particularly that it is never loud enough to compete with Petter, and suits the mood very aptly...
Thanks Matthew!! We aim to please and inform.
As a pilot who flies his bonanza, these accidents constantly remind me the importance of checklists and actually verifying the item on the checklist. It's easy to say for instance on take off that, "engines in the green" with a quick glance, but looking back how often have I actually verified that vs just called it out as a memory item. I have made it a focus on my flying lately to get much better at checking items off and not just going through the motions. I'm also doing more flights with a CFI even though I don't need any additional training per the regulations, just so I can practice emergency procedures more. The more comfortable I am hand flying the plane the better I am at addressing emergencies.
@Andy harpist Indeed.
It seems to me if two pilots wrote the the "RH thrust lever was useless" and they ignored it, then something is wrong in the maintenance department.
Thank you, Mentour Pilot for your analysis about the the accidents and issues involved in the aircraft.
At first, RIP to all passengers aboard. I've boarded that plane back in 2015 and it was a normal flight although it encountered heavy rains during the landing phase. And after heard SJ182 crash, I've shocked when knew that the plane involved in that accident was the same plane I've boarded 6 years ago.
I’m from Indonesia and I’ve been watching many of your videos recently. I would have to say that your videos are almost like tutorials which dissect each of those unfortunate accidents in many fine details and in many dimensions. This I think, is almost unfound in many other similar documentation videos. Regarding Indonesian aviation, to be honest as not so frequent domestic air traveller I’m still concern about the level of details and enforcement our authority has implemented to avoid this type of disaster in the future. This is unfortunately common mentality still persisting in our bureaucracy which is always late and wait for a disaster to happen before waking up.. but sometimes, only to sleep again😂 My hope is that our pilots and all of those important peoples in our aviation industry can watch and tuned in into your channel to at least expand their knowledge and perspective to make our sky safer
@soni damara Penyebab malfungsi AT tidak konklusif pak karena bukti otentik tidak bisa ditemukan. Maintenance yg sudah dilakukan hanya sebatas pembersihan komponen elektronik dan diagnosa melalui BITE. Sudah disimpulkan senada dgn KNKT bahwa penyebab kecelakaan ini adalah kombinasi malfungsi AT dan pilot error yg terlalu bergantung pd fitur otomasi (confirmation bias)
Pswt boeing 737 ini cacat produksi sejak awal pak... kan ada di catatan teknis nya.. saya percaya pilot sdh melakukan yg terbaik. Coba liat komen2 di video ini. Byk jg yg salahkan alat avionik di cocpit itu. Beda trust mesin kiri dan kanan sdh terjadi jauh sblm terbang terakhir. Salahkan teknisi indo? Ga bisa. Kan saat brand new bukan dioprasikan maskapai indo?
I can’t even fly a paper plane without it smashing on take off.. but your channel is way above all other aviation channels.. you don’t have to be a pilot to be able to follow your descriptive commentary… Thankyou 🇦🇺
2021...
Crazy to think this disaster is just last year.
Here is hoping the Indonesian Pilot workspace learn HEAVILY from this accident, and always self-report every problem to ensure safety for everyone involved.
Thanks, Peter.
What an absolute horrific and unnecessary accident.
Thank you, Petter, for this great, in depth look at this tragedy.
Rest in peace to those lost in this accident, including, as I understand, 6 dead heading crew.
@Daniel Cooke A very good question. And yes - absolutely.
@B W Yes - and especially because this Captain must have known about the technical problems of this specific aircraft and that it would be good to keep the eyes open when flying it - and one Hand on the throttles.
@NicolaW72 The reactive and not proactive way of doing maintenance, indeed, exactly.
@B W Well said
@NicolaW72 I wonder what explains them Missing so many changes? And both of them missing every change seems very unusual too? RIP to all and the families.
What is ABSOLUTELY 💯 % true, is that IF whatever caused the thrust shift imbalance had been fixed properly, this tragedy would not have occurred!
24:52 A well trained pilot would not have looked at the controls but at the instruments on hearing the “bank angle” caution. I’m flabbergasted that any pilot would be in cloud, during a climb and not be aware of the attitude indicator. Further to this, keeping hands and feet lightly on the controls, even with the autopilot in, is prudent and would have highlighted the thrust asymmetry as it occurred. Another great video Petter!
That pilot was well trained and very experienced - from this videos description of him
I appreciate the fact the you highlighted the effects of human factors in this unfortunate accident. If I may add, they might not be focused on their ADIs and the EWD especially the Captain for they might be fixated in their weather radar. Flying during monsoon season near the tropics sometimes require aviators just to avoid the "worst of it" and a lot of times we have to avoid multiple cells near each other. And most likely in this kind of weather other than you are in IMC you'll probably be having nasty turbulence as well and these things can affect your situational awareness as well. As a colleague in this industry, I would like to thank you for taking a different route on explaining to non aviators these tragedies and on always putting the "human aspect" to everything. Keep making em for I for one always pick up something in this vids. As the saying goes, always keep the blue side up.
Indeed, this could be right. Obviously the Pilots were very busy with dealing with the weather situation and to avoid some nasty areas and to stay well away from the other aircraft which departed shortly after them, so that they totally forgot to monitor the Throttle´s.
I am a long time aviation enthusiast and frequent flyer. These reviews rival and complement Mayday/Air Crash Investigation/Air Disasters, and that is a very well written show which I’ve been watching for almost 20 years. Absolutely fabulous stuff. Good news/bad news. Content of this quality is unlikely to remain “free” indefinitely. Tremendous job! ✈️
Now that I have finally started flight training, these type of situations feel so much more real and scary understanding exactly what is going on and the fear that these kind of things could happen to me. I hope this will always remind me to never slack off when flying
Not a pilot but interested in how the brain decides what actions we take. So much of the conclusions from these videos can be used in all walks of life . Because of your clear explanations and experience it's becoming essential viewing
While not being a pilot, I have appreciated your videos due to the lessons you share about the value of understanding how the mind works under stress, situational awareness, attention to detail, empowering procedure, practice and more. Such knowledge can be applied to individual acts like driving or tasks at work but also to corporate systems as well.
there are so many parallels in the medical field as well.
I also use aviation concepts in everyday life, especially deleging tasks to my "copilot" while driving and checklists for stressful and/or repetitive situations. Checklist for starting the rv, checklist for vehicle before hauling stuff, checklist for fire evacuation.
@Mentour Pilot Its definitely working, I’ve taken similar lessons from your videos myself. There are some curious similarities between our jobs in terms of importance of following safety SOPs even if it’s a little little slower or annoying than cutting those tiny corners. No doubt you’ll understand why when I tell you I’m an ACS agent cross trained in most of the ramp duties. (I’m not entirely compatible with spending time doing nothing waiting for another aircraft to clean and provide bowser service so I voluntarily undertook most of the ramp training so I can go out and assist them. If I’m working the shift passes faster.) Similarly the lessons in situational awareness transfer into my job and supplement the training already provided by my employer.
You might be pleased to know that teaching me about how the mind works when startled and surprised have actually had practical applications during the nine months or so that I’ve worked on the apron, particularly right after a very near miss when the driver of our van somehow missed the incoming Ryanair 737 following the yellow line to taxi to the assigned aircraft stand. It was already beginning to turn to cross our path when we approached. I was seated behind the driver and we skimmed by so close that I could have reached out the window and patted the 737 on the nose. Once past the 737 I had to be firm in insisting the driver pull over at the nearest safe spot because the startle and surprise would make him far more likely to actually cause an accident if he continued to drive back to base.
Besides it was inevitable that Airside Ops would come for him quickly so there really wasn’t any point to carry on driving and the easiest thing to do was just wait for them to arrive. Admittedly I’ve always wondered what went through the pilots minds during this incident. From my rudimentary understanding I doubt that there was anything they could do to stop quick enough. They were taxiing and apparently it can take a few seconds for the engines to spool down if they killed the engines or put them into idle and I have no idea if the parking brake is capable of stopping the aircraft while it’s taxiing. I still don’t know how he missed it, planes like that are not subtle.
Similarly it’s helpful to simply be aware that prolonged stress and fatigue can affect the mind while I’m under those conditions out there. Having learned about CRM was the other main takeaway and sometimes I think it might be worth learning more specifics would be useful when our supervisor expects us to do something dumb like attempt to clean a 737 without a GPU yet available in the middle of a night shift. Fortunately that doesn’t happen often and most of the time I enjoy the job despite some of the downsides.
Oh and if you ever fly into BRS and I’m around I’ll say hi.
@Y Coyle , I also find myself thinking in terms of situation awareness. I don't drive a car, but have had a few narrow squeaks because of careless or dangerous drivers - very narrow squeaks when I was off in my own world instead of paying attention to my surroundings. Turns out that listening to music while walking down the road is way too distracting.
Just a terrestrial here but I love to fly (commercially) and really enjoy Mentour’s channel. Unfortunately for my partner I now say things like, “situational awareness”, “bias” and talk about the concept of the power gradient amongst crew, in our everyday conversation …. Lol
Hello Peter, I really enjoy your breakdowns of accidents and near accidents. It makes them very understandable. I have about 15 hours in C-172 over 30 years ago, so I have enough real personal flight experience to be dangerous and not helpful. One thing I thought about watching the above video, has there been any discussion that you know of regarding changing the “Bank Angle” audible alert to include the direction? Something like “Bank Angle Left” in this case. We will never know if an alert like that would have triggered this captain to better recognize this event, but it seems to me it might have triggered his hyper focus on the yoke to recognized the incongruence between the yoke position and the alert for the “Bank Angle Left”. Perhaps he might have taken the moment longer to find his artificial horizon?
I am a Paramedic by training and I am also very aware of alarm overload and fatigue in some situations. Adding extra detail to the audible alert may not be preferred for other very good reasons. Thanks for your time.
I love these videos! I'm in mechanical engineering and we come across many troubleshooting experiences similar to the venn diagram you showed, though not with such dramatic consequences. Just the other day we had replaced the transmission in a piece of machinery and the new transmission made grinding noises at every shift. we drained the oil, send a sample for analysis.. asked the manufacturer for oil fill procedures, checked and double checked again and again and still, in every test drive, that grinding noise came back.
We put the machine on jackstands and ran some tests in the shop with one mechanic driving the machine with it's wheels off the ground and the other one sitting next to the open hood looking at what was going on in there. It turned out to be the powertrain assembly not being properly lined up on the engine mounts and the cooling fan being too close to the radiator shroud. At every gear change, the motor would jolt slightly and the fan blades were grinding against the shroud. All that time, the logic seemed to be that an issue fixed with the transmission must mean the this problem also came from the transmission! In any situation, never assume that what you think is happening is really what is happening!!
Indeed, exactly.
It shows the importance of always placing your hand on the thrust levers when the aircraft is in transition. (during take off, during climb, leveling off, starting a climb, starting a descend, during approach and landing, etc.)
These videos are absolutely the best, and presented in a non-accusatory fashion which is great. One observation that I seem to note after watching a lot of these videos is that there seems to be a remarkable (and to me unusual) tendency of some of the accident pilots to utterly ignore their AI and TC in abrupt upset situations. I am just a PPL rating, so have never been in the heavy iron situation, but during IFR training, the need to trust these and not your kinetic senses is hammered home. Seems that neither pilot did this, or maybe the FO was intimidated by the Captain and did not want to correct his actions. I wonder why? Sad in any case.
I FINALLY got it through my head the difference between autothrottle and autoPILOT!
Yay, Petter!
When you mentioned that the Captain hadn't looked down at his instruments for 20 seconds, hey, 20 seconds is a LONG time. A 5-to-10-second 6.0 earthquake feels like 10 minutes!
I love you mentioning 'confirmation bias' and the 'startle effect', and the psychological effect of this intense stimuli event and the reflex action of the person.
Your explanation of these psych effects, to me, indicate a lot of looking a lot of the actions you automatically do, plus the research you've done, impress me.
It's not the first accident that happens because an autopilot silently compensates for an unusual situation. The situation gets worse and worse, until a puzzling warning occurs or the autopilot disconnects itself entirely.
Do you think some kind of earlier warning could be implemented into the autopilot? Something like "I am still managing what you told me to do, but this is getting increasingly difficult and I will shut down in X seconds". I think this could help this and other similar situations.
@Torten Schachtel No, but bad habits may cause airline or pilots to use asymmetric thrust as indigenous, temporary cure to not immediately cure-able problems arose inflight (e.g. ungoverned rolling/veering to one side, bad rudder response etc), more so if they are crossing ocean and lands are far from accessible.
@gloowacz I like your idea but I don’t think telling them how much the percentage is being useful. Rather, a “Attention, Thrust Asymmetry, left/right side, too low/high” would be sufficient, since the pilots should know the difference and which engine is the culprit when they look at the gauge and levers.
It was obvious plane was turning opposite direction despite all the effort of the AP, they could put a waring sound indicating plane is not turning as AP commanding. And implementing it would be easy, just write a simple piece of code which will measure the difference between control roll and actual roll indicated by the instrument.
@LiliumAtratum Indeed, exactly. That is what Petter mentioned at the end of his Video: In this special case an Airbus Sidestick would have been the better feature because he wouldn´t have distracted the pilot from looking at his instruments to understand what really was going on.
A warning that a Throttle Split occured would have been indeed very useful in this case. It would have prevented the startle effect and therefore the panic reaction.
I was thinking the same thing. The main reason for the pilot's surprised reaction was that they did not get any prior warning that something was wrong. All the while, the auto-pilot could already have known what was wrong. If the auto-pilot would have warned that the auto-throttle was not reacting as expected, there would not have been any accident.
You would think after the 10th or 20th complaint, they’d do a major fix let alone 65th in which they replaced all the parts in the throttle system or definitively identified the source and fixed it. Edit: Petter partly explained how this was allowed to happen.
Those pilots’ failure to report, it isn’t overly harsh to say, are also majorly to blame for this tragedy. And, yes, I’m aware the captain was one of the two pilots in the fatal flight.
@GodmanchesterGoblin Yes - and with some similar aspects.
@NicolaW72 Thank you. I just read about Air Asia 8501. Another terrible and avoidable tragedy.
@GodmanchesterGoblin Indeed. It remembers strongly to Air Asia Indonesia Flight 8501 where the Maintenance "fixed" the same repeatedly occuring problem dozends of times and never tried to sort the problem out.
Agreed. I have the impression that the reporting and logging failures were systemic in the airline culture (and possibly an indirect consequence of face-saving culture that is often seen in some parts of east Asia. Repeatedly "cleaning" connections most likely just gave time out somewhere else for the fault to go away temporarily. This is down to basic electrical / electronic fault finding skills. The failure to recognise that after 10 to 20 "fixes" the problem is still there and it really has some other cause is just shocking.
One of the things that alot of these stories shows me is that it's so easy to get into the habit of working around small problems and things which you can do to get the job done when there's not extra stress but when there is extra stress it's impossible to complete. The fact that there was no reporting of the asymetric thrust even when they overshot their altitude is really bad, similarly the failure of the regulator to either regulate for its internationally agreed upset prevention or even be aware that it wasn't being done makes you wonder how much else they missed... So many accidents could be avoided by people looking at the ADI and believing it with no external references, sensory disorientation is so easy to happen, it's scary how quickly the situation went from relatively easily recoverable to destruction, as you say understanding your aircrafts systems and interacting with them properly is vital.
Indeed.
Once again another excellent video, thank you to you and your team for continuing to produce these. I can't imagine it's easy studying and talking about the tragedies and loss of life, especially being a pilot yourself. I hope you're all looking after your mental health. Your passion for flying always comes through in these videos. Thanks again.
I have been studying patterns in flight disaster as it pertains to the Fine Structure Constant (137), or 24/58 (.4137); as well as how it pertains to electrical mechanical engineering biases in wave amplitude sample rates, and I have found a lot of repetitions in aviation fault specifically following your videos.
Thank you very much for being persistent, and detailed with your work.
This is just so terrifying to me. All he did was be distracted for like 15 seconds and then turn the wheel and bam. All those lives lost. I'm a bit opposite of many comments. I never had a fear of flying before and flew quite a bit. Now after watching these videos, idk how we don't have more accidents. If just one detail is missed, one step taken incorrectly, it's done for everyone. I have so much more respect for pilots after this. Feel like I want to bring mine a huge gift basket on my next flight 😭
"If just one detail is missed, one step taken incorrectly, it's done for everyone."
But it wasn't just one detail missed. It was the lack of proper maintenance, which ended in two systems failing (the autothrottle system and the CTS-system), that was combined with the pilots not monitoring their systems which led to being surprised and out of surprise reacting the wrong way (partly because of wrong training). I'd argue that this wasn't just one missed detail, but a lot of them on different levels, that had to come together.
The chairman of Canada's nuclear industry regulatory agency used to joke that he wished that the reactor operator chair could be equipped with automatic clamps. These clamps would automatically lock down the operator's arms for 5 seconds whenever a high level alarm came in. This would force the operator to first study the instrument panel and gain situational awareness, before releasing him to take action. He was joking when he said it, but he was also highlighting the risk of an operator taking action before they've read their instruments and formed a clear picture of the problem, and the required corrective action.
And practice doing this over and over until it becomes 2nd nature. It wouldn't be that hard to set something up training wise to at least semi replicate this.
Don't Panicl.
Don't tell him Pike.
@marsjan
Pilot: _SHIT I'M WEARING MY CASIO AAAARGGH_
Retired Navy nuke Engineer here.
I was taught the same thing in my operational training. When a casualty occurs, the first Immediate action is to sit on your hands and analyze the situation.
There's a similar saying in medicine - "the first thing you do in a code is take your own pulse"
I really enjoy how you break down how things like stress or shock impact decision making. These sorts of things affect us all, no matter our work, and it's really helpful to understand the bad decisions we make in our day to day lives and understand them a bit better.
I live in Tenerife but have to fly home to the UK quite often. I literally download your videos specifically to watch on the plane and it actually makes me feel safer. That’s because it gives me the confidence that so much thought and analysis goes into the aftermath of these terrible accidents that I can be very confident that statistically, it is basically impossible that the same thing will happen to me. Your video about the Los Rodeos incident (still the deadliest aviation accident in human history and one of the best videos on youtube) which took place here, brought about so much change in the industry that I can comfortably watch it on the plane and feel safe. I iust have to cover the screen so no other passengers catch glimpses of exploding aeroplanes while we’re taking off! Absolute respect to you and the team this content is some of the bet I’ve ever seen online. But please do the Spanish dubbed versions on a separate channel like mr beast does (not that i like his content particularly)but its an incredible idea as he reaches another massive audience and us spanish learners can improve our spanish while we’re enjoying your awesome videos! Thanks again. Love everything you do for us.
We love and are absolutely addicted to your content. We really appreciate they way this series narrates accidents and incidents and we love nerding out on all the mechanical, engineering or scientific explanations. We would love to see a video about the Spanair flight 5022 accident.
Thank you very much for your content!
I remember this accident because this accident happened in my country, I remember seeing several videos on Twitter that recorded the silhouette and sound of a plane falling into the water, because the location is not far from a tourist spot called Pulau Seribu, even though we have just recovered from covid-19 and people were so delighted but this accident made the whole nation sad.
As an engineer, I am quite surprised that the auto systems didn't alert to when they are unable to perform their functions.
Seems like it would be very useful for the autothrottle system to alert to an unexpected throttle position (say to due to a stuck throttle), regardless of asymmetric thrust.
Likewise for the autopilot to alert to it hitting the limit of it's control range. Given human weakness at monitoring stuff, would have been better for an alert that something was wrong to come well before the bank angle alert.
It shows how important a proper instrument scan is for both pilots to engage in, not just peering out the windscreen like another bored passenger. Either one had ample opportunity to note the increasing thrust discrepancy.
@RicksGameMisc Donald Duck always flies by his pants?😶🌫🤪
cheers! /CS
@Jan Bruun Andersen Well said. Completely agree. Root cause analysis - we called it. If it keeps happening, you're not at the root!
@Jack T it's just crazy to me they didn't notice the different throttle positions when they're sitting right in front of the pilots. It's like they completely ignored their gauges while staring out of the windscreen. On my discovery flight it was made very clear that you need to scan everything and to make it a habit. While doing your scan you take a quick glance at each gauge individually so it becomes second nature.
@RicksGameMisc That´s indeed a very good question - especially because this specific Captain had experienced a Thrust Split with exactly this Aircraft.
The Pilots simply messed totally up in this Case - really totally.
I spend more time monitoring the state and health vintage cars' engines than these "pilots" and I can just pull over and get out if something breaks.
Literally making me think about how I would react in this situation
When you said what would you do for a bank angle warning and I immediately thought control stick/yoke must turn left or opposite to what it is, to correct for the bank angle warning . ONLY to realize when we look at the bigger picture, that this action will only exacerbate the problem.
My instructor tells me all the time I react too quickly without assessing the situation ( or picture ) first sometimes which leads to over correcting or making too much work for myself trying to get stable .
I think from watching this video and trying to apply good habits/lessons , I need to actively try asses and understand the situation before my input into the aircraft.
Thanks for the video's and hard work you guys put in to create the content
Another great, professional production! You should be commended for how you defend the pilots' actions by putting the situation in human terms. There was another extremely important aspect that you didn't touch on: the aircraft was in a significant skid, causing a lateral force on them, and initially right bank. This would have caused major spatial disorientation when they looked back at their instruments because their balance organs (otolith organs) would have been telling their brains one thing and their eyeballs telling them something very different. This disorientation is very difficult to overcome quickly, especially when compounded by the shock and surprise you pointed out. That said, why in the world weren't they looking at their instruments when they were in Instrument Flight Rule conditions?!
Thank you Petter for making these videos. As a video producer myself I appreciate how much work you and your team put into them. They are great! I have a personal reason for my interest in airplane accidents as the father of my childhood best friend was the copliot of Air Canada flight 162 which crashed in 1970 in Toronto. It remains on of the worst airline accidents in Canadian history. Sadly, years later, in 1982 my boyhood friend also died in a airplane accident while working as a pliot for a small air transport company in Estevan Saskachewan. I wonder if you would consider doing a video about Air Canada flight 162. Many thanks for your videos.
The flight number was Air Canada 621
I always love your straightforward and non-biased videos. You also show compassion for any tragic incidences. I am a Patron member, and sometimes I will watch a favorite video more than once. I get Menor Pilot withdrawals waiting for new videos. 😉
10 years of inactions and one simple but incorrect action blew the whole house of cards in seconds.
Crazy story and painful to watch once you already see where does it lead to. I was like "Please don't touch that yoke. Wait a sec and think."
@Mikoto It was a nearly 27 years old 737 Classic - so a really aged plane from a traditional Design. So, yes, maybe it would have been a better choice to make spare parts and coke shelter out of this aircraft. But this happened in the middle of the Pandemic with all its circumstances and a 737-500 would be principally a good choice if you have only few passengers to fly.
@No More That was actually one of the conclusions I reached when considering what the root cause was. That it pretty much had to be a quirk or flawed component of that individual aircraft so deeply embedded that it could potentially been just built into the airframe during construction or during one of the early repairs.
Indeed the thought floated across my mind that with such a deep set problem so difficult to find and fix that maybe the airline would have been better off scrapping it for spare parts but immediately knew that the aircraft was simply too expensive for that.
@No More the QAR recorded 65 incidence of thrust asymmetry and 7 that year! The company seem to have changed the engine, greased a lot of parts, but not done enough to find the fault. After all, the pilots were reporting AP disengaging issues but not thrust asymmetry issues. That data was available and downloaded to the companies systems. The crash investigation team found it. Failures at multiple levels here.
@Mentour Pilot I can imagine that. One of the easiest avoidable crashes since many years.
@Christogratia Immanuel Simbolon Sorry, I meant the "cruise thrust split monitoring"
I’ve seen so many comments about how good your videos are and how well they’re put together production wise, so I don’t feel I need to repeat the facts everyone else is saying 🤣 but I will say thank you for the hard work and fantastic professionalism you show when talking about such serious topics. I watch/listen to these video when I’m at work and they get me through the day :)
Another great video. I enjoy your retellings so much, I could post this same comment on all your videos. You focus in on the stuff that matters and convey a good understanding of the situation. Whatever crash or incident you pick, you make it sound like the most fascinating story yet. I'm particularly interested in your revealing and sympathetic thoughts about why the pilots may have reacted the way they did.
Hey Petter, though I'm not a pilot and have no plans to become a pilot, your videos on accidents and incidents are very helpful to truly understand different situations in our day-to-day life and decide our response, best suitable, to overcome it.
I was an Assistant Air Traffic Controller in the RAF working at the Rescue Coordination Centre at RCC Edinburgh at Pitreavie Castle outside Rosyth Scotland. I worked there from 1979 - 1983. We were responsible for the Nimrods and Yellow RAF Rescue Helecopters from 5230N and above. The nearest I got to being a pilot was getting my Wings as a Glider Pilot with the Air Training Corps. Why do I say this? I love your vlogs, I can relate to a lot of terms, and I appreciate you dumbing down/explaining to us less knowledgeable in all things piloting. You present a very thorough debrief into these accidents and explain why, when, and how things go wrong. Thank you for these vlogs, I always watch them from start to finish and always leave the vlog with a clear understanding I didn't have before the vlog. Thank you for all you do, Petter. The narration and videography is second to none.
Very nice video again!
After watching all these videos, I might be biased myself by my addiction to the airbus philosophy of how to use and integrate technology and especially automation, but it would be interesting to have an overview or comparison of the effect of the control design on this kind of accidents. My feeling is, that the "classic" control design used by boeing more often makes it harder for the pilots to keep correct situational awareness whenever something like that struck lever occurs. I personally can't understand that an automatic system that should move two levers synchronously doesn't stop way before the situation gets that much asymmetric. As a technician I would expect a margin of max 5-10%, but here it seems that nearly 80% difference occurred before the system
recognized an irregular condition. For me from my (non aviation) point that seems to be a hard design flaw that should have been eliminated years before, due that there happened more accidents based on that strange system behavior.
In this case it was clearly a secondary technical fault of the Aircraft, as Petter mentioned in the Video. I don´t know if there´re any differences in this direction between the 737 Generations. This was a 737 Classic => a "Second Generation" 737 (the 737 MAX being the fourth Generation), so an older Design.
The ability of this team to organize and condense 200 pages of information into a comprehensible, educational, and engaging presentation is incredible!
I am curious as to what the “satisfactory by briefing” entails in a proficiency check. Both pilots had SBs related to non-normals. Is there additional education provided? I just wonder if it is significant that this was an issue in both pilots proficiency check, or is it a common occurrence that would not raise any red flags?
Easy to see how this happened. Just thinking about the not paying attention thing, I nearly wrecked my car a week ago because of it. Combination of factors, including the time it takes the mind to process what’s going on. By the time I realized how slow the car that pulled in front of me was going I didn’t have time to brake, so I braked and swerved. What I didn’t notice was someone had just lane changed to be next to me. If I hadn’t happened to look mid swerve, I would have hit them for sure. It’s easy to become complacent doing these daily tasks, like driving (or in this case flying) and not pay as much attention as we should because things most of the time go right. But that leaves us unprepared for when things go wrong. These air accidents are great to learn from, because often when the human factor is involved, the lesson can be applied to other areas of life and not just aviation. Stay defensive, pay attention!
You are way too kind. I’m not even a pilot, yet I know how important it is to keep an eye on the artificial horizon. That and the huge offset of the throttles; something more must have been going on psychologically or mechanically for a captain with near 10k hours on that model aircraft.
10k hours of boring, tedious incident free flying where the plane mostly flew itself and never once tried to kill the pilot.
Petter, I just have to say I have been watching your channel for over 2 years now, and I love and appreciate your patience in explaining what is happening in clear, concise terms. You explain thoroughly what is happening to the aircraft, what the pilots are seeing and doing, and on occasions, what the cabin crew and passengers are experiencing as it affects the situation.
You give us the facts, visuals, etc, without over dramatic re-enactments that detract from our ability to concentrate and absorb the issue. I hope that flight schools, pilot trainers, and others are using your videos as training tools to show new pilots what can go wrong and how it was dealt with before. You don't just focus on crashes, but also those cases when things have gone severely wrong and the crew has saved the situation, which is just as important a lesson as the ones that fail.
One way it could be used training wise is to run the pilot through a simulator of the accident, then watch your video, then back into the simulator to see if they can improve.
@Marty McFly He’s pumping out high quality completely free content on KZclip. What’s wrong with him trying to monetise this at NordVPN’s expense..?
Nobody cares about your stories unless you go buy NordVPN's proxy services. That's all Mentour cares about. If you aren't buying Nord, then frankly you should stop enjoying this content.
Thank you very much for this very informative lecture about the reasons for this horrible crash,.which we all can probably remember very well.
It was indeed much worse than I've imagined. Nearly all Lines of Defence failed, not only the last one.
But the last one was finally deadly.
RIP to all of the Victims!
Indeed, exactly. RIP to the Victims.
Quite educative and informative. Good job Peter. I indeed do learn a lot from you as a student pilot.
I don't have much to add.. the comments speak for themselves.. I just want to tell about myself.. I have always been extremely afraid of flying. You have no idea how difficult it was for me to get through a flight. In the last six months after I discovered this channel and saw all the videos, something changed in me.. In the last three flights I used to sit and wait for fear.. nothing happened.. the fear disappeared completely.. and on the contrary I found myself reassuring other people.. I want to say thank you From the heart! Waiting for every new video with great excitement!
That is really sad to sit there for hours in fear. It would have probably helped to have a little therapy dog, sitting w/you throughout the flight. I'm glad you no longer fear flying. Mentour Pilot is very generous in sharing his expertise.✈
@MB Voelker Lol! My sister is afraid to fly and I'm afraid of spiders. One day we were traveling down the road when I saw a spider on my window and freaked out so my dad pulled over and told my sister to get it.
She said to my dad "Oh brother, it's just a little thing"! I said "Well, planes can be too, but you wouldn't board a little one, either"!😉
Hurray! Now you can enjoy flying and travel!
That's really remarkable. I'm so happy for you! I understand the crippling fear of flying.
It's often said that we fear what we don't understand.
The greater your understanding of how aviation works and the chain of unlikely events that cause accidents the less you fear. :)
Just wake up and watched the entire video. Petter, your channel is not just about learning air accidents and incidents. It's about raising awareness towards aviation industry. Please, I'm begging you to create more investigation debrief for my country's air accidents and incidents. Thank you for creating this. I always watch your videos 1-18 hours upon published.
As an ex B777 pilot we were bias against Airbus with its non-moving thrust levels. However after 11 years flying the A320 it’s a great machine and very well thought out. Looking forward to my A350 course next month. 😊. Startle factors can lead to ‘chimp’ response which made the situation far worse. We ‘cage’ the chimp and rebuild situational awareness before appropriate action. Very interesting, thanks.
Man, the way you showed us why the captain did what he did was something else. Unreal. And yes, this is the first time I've heard of an accident where the position of the control yoke played a role.
Also,
1) If you're using FS2020, which 737 mod is that?
2) Would the Cruise Thrust Monitoring System be activated if the flaps are *at* 12.5°?
It happens more than you fathom. A yoke can be to the right and the plane goes to the left. The rigging was twisted at the rudder. The plane is at least 130 feet long. That cable comes from the yoke to the tail. Too bad it was not tested prior to flight. One thing leads to another. Always.
I so look forward to your videos and wish you could post more. They are so educational they have made me feel like I could help crew if they were in trouble. But unfortunately am so scared of flying these days 😕. The thought of flying feels me with dread . How can this change considering I have travelled lots and lived in uk for nearly 20 years travelling back and forth lots .
It was so incredible that they basically haven't even tried to recover the aircraft and just let it fall. :(
I am an aircraft mechanic and when we “clean/reset connectors” it’s our way of doing *something* to clear a write up when we can’t duplicate a discrepancy on the ground or don’t feel like digging any deeper. It’s sad but it’s the reality. Pilots, if you ever see this sort of corrective action for a write up, it’s probably not really fixed and will probably come back.
@Daniel Cooke On the jet I worked on, we have a device called the DDTU, which is a digital data transfer unit. We have a requirement to check it after EACH flight and record and work any major faults listed on there. The DDTU is basically the same thing as the device on this 737.
Read through all these responses, take your view on who is realistic, consider who is commercially viable. Which responder has the luxury of unlimited time. Who is trying to do a good job and who just likes arguing. Imagine being a pilot and attempting to describe some of a problem to these argumentative pendants... would you try a second time? Imagine this lot are your maintenance crew; who would you give the tricky problem to? Mr Black and White, or the realists. The man most interested in avoiding prosecution so a box ticker, or Mr Teflon who wont help but always judges. Its little wonder problems escape detection let alone rectification. To the original mechanic Jochen saying watch out; more power to you. At least hes recognising humanity and is telling the truth. Perhaps the one bit not mentioned is this; it depends on who reports a fault. Some people report every squeak, but get very angry if a lowly mechanic tells them they are wrong. The senior man who rose through the ranks on merit and still remembers the daily challenges of the lower ranks is a very rare man. Normally you just get screamed at to fix it already.... I suspect Mentour Peter would make a very good supervisor in maintenance as he understands how expensive mistakes are. But he would only be promoted in an affluent company.
@Michael Frey I'd say that a mechanic shouldn't look at what time the plane is scheduled to take off. I know that they do, and are maybe more or less forced to do so by their supervisors, but the safety of the plane should be top priority. My brother is a mechanic and he says that he doesn't let them force him to release a plane if he doesn't think it is safe to fly. In the end it's your signature on the form and if it all goes tits up, you have to answer the difficult questions. Also, you have to live with it...
I wouldn't do it. Now I don't work in the industry (I'm in IT) but I did refuse to do things that are similar to signing off on something that isn't right. I don't care if they'd fire me for such a reason. At least I have a clear conscience. Maybe they should show this series to people in airline management, because there are more accidents that are maybe not 100% to blame on management pushing for a bad decission, but their attitude did contribute to the accident. Usually there are multiple reasons for a disaster (the Swiss cheese is a brilliant analogy) and obviously a pilot/captain shouldn't let himself be pushed to make a wrong decission. But in the end, we're all humans, and we make mistakes.
I was an airplane mechanic for only 2 years, but I experienced many interesting things during that time.
Competence and maintenance deficiencies.
For example, I found scissors in the vertical control plane. (actually it was forgotten after maintenance)
It would have really caused a lot of trouble if he moved. (I noticed it when changing the film of the black box)
p.s.
The "black box" was of course yellow!
Even I made a mistake:
I was dealing with military aircraft and a red alert occurred during the exchange of standby aircraft.
I had already shut off the oxygen system, but I was not able to depressurize it yet, so nothing indicated this to the pilot.
The shift was interrupted due to the red alert.
Due to a red alert, the machine had to be started (this is also my task) and only approx. After 1 minute, I realized that I had already closed the machine's oxygen system.
I quickly got out of the starter car, and quickly opened the 2 oxygen valves.
Fortunately, there was no deployment.
If the pilot had had an accident because of this, I don't know how I would have taken it!
Back to flying:
Artificial horizon!!!
THIS is the most important thing
I would have looked at that right away!
If that's okay, there's time for something else...
@Tom’s Travels Like you said, not an intermittent fault ( say something that only occured when the machine was airborne but everything worked perfectly on the ground) but a hard fault and dead easy to diagnose and repair.
I been watching the videos for about a month now and I love it the details you go through it's amazing and not only on technical side but also on human side your explanation is fantastic, helped me understand how someone could not see something obvious. I'm not a pilot, I just flew in WWII sim's sometime ago, I know some thing so for me they way you doing things is absolute perfection. Love the work and the accent 💙
Peter, I like your videos so much, I even cought myself watching your entire commercial. Great content which teaches you a bit of everything, aviation, psychology, physics, weather, geography, technical stuff etc.. Love your voice and humble attitude and wisdom telling these one of a kind stories. Thank you for making so many episodes and cheers to bingewatching. Greetings from Prague!
Welcome to the club. I find myself neglecting or postponing other priorities to binge addict watch these videos. I was a plane mechanic up until 1985 but still never forgot my love of aviation. Thus these rekindled the spark.
Thank you Team Mentour for all the detailed videos! I'm sure I've said this before but I'll say it over and over- the content here is top-notch! Thank you for explaining things in a way even those who aren't in the industry can understand. Keep up the amazing work and keep safe in the skies, Petter!
FEEDBACK
As always, a great detailed video. RIP to those who perished and my condolences to the families.
@Peter, if you could mention the correct actions the crew should have taken to correctly recover the aircraft, that would be great. In this case, after the severe upset had happened, what were the correct things to do in order to recover and get the aircraft under control.
If you could pay special attention to this point in all your coming videos, I will be super grateful.
Was the issue of the Auto-Throttle ever found out? Why was it happening, not as an educated guess, but with a precision of
reasonable cause. - I have had similar failures, while being the Component Reliability Engineer for several leading electronics
corporations, including but not limited to aerospace industry. - What it really shocked me about your video on on the JS 182
was your comment which stated that the computer box or the controller box for the Auto-throttle, can most of the time be fixed with a good clean up of the connections.- Peter, I may be long in explaining it, but that is a real no-no - which leads or aggravates the condition of intermittent circuitry on most electronics controlled by connectors which are wired.
Like one of your collegues here in youtube would say: Let me explane: There are at least 4 factors working against this flight or any other flight since the jet was a 27 year old, with shoddy maintenance records during apparently 1/3 of its lifespan.
I will exhibit in here, the principal of connections in a computerized system. - Just like an aircraft or any craft for that matter,
a connector does have a limit as to the healthy number of connections it can perform. - A connector durability or life span is
not measure in month or years, but rather in the number of cycles it can handle.- Lets say for example, a connector type for
a database bank, ( and this is for an example reference in general only) with an RJ45 connector. - the connector in the cable
is the male end, and the connector on the bulkhead or flange is the female receptacle.- in most of the times, this type of connection is considered"...semi-permanent..." -meaning that it will be kept connected during operation, with only completing a
cycle or two during maintenance. So, when the maker of the controller orders the connectors, via their specification drawing
orders a number of connector sets, for semi-permanent operation. There are versions of the same connector, usually for
permanent, semi permanent, minimum cycle, medium cycle, maximum cycles, for commercial, industrial, and for aerospace.
The base unit of the connector is the same. What it changes is the plating which covers the bare material, and allows for a
uniform distribution of the electrical signal going throughout the cable into its pertinent destinatary inside the receptacle
with each pin then routing the signal for every position in the connector. - Then, What is the difference between each different grade of the same connector? The answer is the thickness of the plating on each pin of both ends of the connection, so much in the male as within the female end. - For example, for a semi-permanent operation, the gold plating of each pin does required ( for commercial application operating between 0 degrees C - 70 degrees C ) is 15 uin [ micro inches ] for one step up
in effective performance, you have a typical of 30 uin, for industrial typical use is 50 uin; / 75 uin, and for aerospace the minimum is typically 100 uin -{ uin = micro inches } - so, the first 15 uin may last 500 cycles of insertion / extraction.
the 30 uin, goes up 1500 cycles. - The thicker the plating, whether gold or other elegant metal for uniform transmissivity,
the more reliable the connector and cable combo. And since a cable / connector combo only achieve success when there
are a functional item. - One of the typical problems with the industry is that entire outfits who manufacture either connectors and or wire harness or cables, change hands from time to time, thus change methodologies and product lines.
Sometimes, that enables a delay delivery of the proper item, and then the purchaser is forced to use a substitute. While a substitute is always meant for temporary use, most of the time, becomes a permanent fixture of the assembly since it is
found to be "working properly" - however, the subs, are in most instances provided with lower thickness of plating on each connector pin. - Which leads to a general condition known as "dissimilar metal contact" - Here is the kicker:
Dissimilar metal contacts, when come into play together into a cycle of insertion/ extraction, wears out far faster than similar metal contacts. with the contact having a thicker plating eroding the metal having a thinner plating contact.
The end result, is what is called in the electronic connector industry as "...gouging..." which in plain English means gashes or
interruptions on the plating exhibiting the bare metal of the contact. - This in turn, along with movement and vibration, causes
small interruptions in a given pin making contact with a socket. These interruptions, are very temporary and short lived.- Yet are unpredictable as to when the pins of the connection are going to create a short or open, it is like there are dancing to the compass of the vibrations and sudden moves, while changing their position accordingly due to external forces. -
This "...intermittency..." is what leads to people to do not report the problem. - because is a symptom of an unpredictable behavior - and most are afraid of reporting what could end resulting on nothing at all. - Yet the this type of box for the A/T
it is usually checked, while the aircraft is parked in a hangar, without the load of engine nor the vibration of the wind. Thus
is like maintenance never gets to see the fault in actual action.
Furthermore, to clean a gouged surface on a pin connector is contaminating and corroding the rest of the plating residing on
the gouged pin just cleaned up. So, it may work for a little while, however as soon as it the solvent cleaning dries up, it goes back to dance to the rhythm of the forces of gravity and vibrations.- The other thing is it may begin to send really unwanted signals, to the computer, which could potentially become uncontrollable.
Like sometimes, your little Chinese headphones (3.5mm) you plug into your laptop, may experience a conductor breakage on the tail of the strain relief, causing a video to jump to a different location in time on the video, or losing audio.
same effect, - I had to solve problems like this when ATARI was the name of the game in video games. - It took 98,853 turns
of a joystick to show the actual visible catastrophic damage, on a bare eye look. - However, when this type of failures do take place, begins, far before the evident failure. These type of failures are called "...latent...." failures.- I did also an evaluation for
LSI Logic, with their then called "VIDEO DAC" and actually put a couple of semi conductors to pay us via lawsuit.
Just the same as if a fin of a turbine engine would have an internal inherent crack to its own manufacturing processes.
We do now what the potential risk for that is.- This minute items, under constant pressure and heat of the transmissivity of the signal though a wire or connector, or from within a tiny bubble of trapped air, could bring an aircraft down.
There are a lot of situations, in which the connectors must be changed over every so often. - Yet, with technology changing so rapidly, unfortunately it also does change the manufacturing focus of connector manufacturers. I am a witness to that, and even though you can customize with adapters, the problem is that by adding up equipment, you are also changing the operational characteristics of the actual connection. For one, you increase resistance, thus increase the internal temperature of the connection, thus degrade the signal transmissivity, since heat and temperarture are the worst enemies of any electronic element. - with also changing or delaying the speed of the connection signal, which may need to be acquired within a specific
window of time in order to respond in a proper and timely manner. - and on a repeatitive motion this couild accumulated in a dangerous way, to the point that the system may not be able to interprete the signal, may get what we called in the failure world "...stuck at fault...." and freeze or even worse, shut down completely.
the crew of SJ 182, had been distracted by a case for which no pilot had been trained for. And that is the reliability of system connections. - Believe me when I tell you, that things had change quite a bit in electronics world in the last 28 years.
I 've had my degree on Reliability and Maintainability Engineering in 1982 - With a practical test performed under the then
American Society for Qualilty Control, at Lockheed Ames Research Facility in California.- A whole day exam.
I was previous to the last to leave the exam room.
The aerospace experience, had it at Loral Aerospace, - with some little bullets flying over the ocean.
I told them "no you can not program EPROMS without protection and having make fly to target.
They've asked me why : My reply was because you get UV at high altitude. - Some of the programmers walked off the room.
The system to make these EPROMs containing target data, re-programmable, was, that it was erasable. -
How you erase them? via exposing them in close little box to U.V. rays for about 2 minutes.-
EPROM = eraseble programmable Read Only Memory ( a dinosaur by now ).
I hope you can appreciate my point of view.
Thank you very much for your extensive additional informations, allthough I´m not an Engineer.
No, the original Reason for the Failure of the Throttle´s was never detected, as Petter said in the Video and as the Final Report stated. The FDR didn´t cover it and the Throttle System itself was too destroyed after the Crash to get any information out of it. The Investigators stated only in their Final Report, as Petter mentioned, that it is likely that some mechanical issue occured inside of the system, which was never searched and therefore never found by the Maintenance Crew.
You and your team continue to explain these incidents and tragedies in a way that anyone can follow while still maintaining just enough technical education to truly set yourselves apart. Thank you to all you at Mentour for giving us in depth and easy to understand summaries of these often tedious and insanely long and detailed reports (I studied aerospace engineering, and I still remember doing case studies on air incidents as part of our undergrad) to help tell the world why flying is so safe today!
Hah, that’s similar to my experience with the introductory training to working safely on the apron and aircraft stands. When the training video featured past incidents to teach us not to do the same or similar things I felt a sinking feeling when I realised I’d already learned it from this channel and knew what was about to happen, particularly during my ramp training about the importance of loading and labelling cargo properly and what things are hazardous such as lithium batteries. I recognised UPS flight 6 immediately and I still feel sympathy for that poor first officer and what he endured alone for the final minutes of his life. But yeah much of the things I’ve learnt from this channel built the foundation of my understanding of aircraft which I’ve since built on.
😆 You know that the lessons have truly sunk in when he apologised for being technical at the start of this video and the responding thought was “this is technical?” Before the thought scatters while following the narrative.
Thanks for this interesting insight and RIP all the victims. It clearly shows how difficult it can be for us humans to react in such a demanding situation and avoiding the same is key.
your videos are so amazing. You tell a great story, with just the right touch of tech info, & you never descend into pointless blaming---it is always a quest to understand & improve. I wish my dad were still alive---if I could have got him thru the technicalities of using KZclip, he'd have loved your channel. He trained as a pilot in WWII, then was badly injured in a training accident before he could really see any action. I am wondering if you ever had the opportunity to fly any military aircraft---I thought of that watching the" flying wing" video last week. Keep up the great work!
Hello mentour pilot. Can you please review PIA 8303.
It's a very interesting crash that includes a bizarre act by the pilots of retracting the landing gear just before landing.
We could really learn a lot from your analysis of the crash.
Thank you for your channel. Clear, informative and focused. It is clear that any automated or regulated system is ultimately dependent on human input, and human input is wildly unpredictable, due to multiple influences, including culture, money and health. In the interest of passenger safety, there should be much tighter - voluntary - regulation and auditing of airline operations, as a pre-condition for international operations. As we now discover that no one regulator is immune from serious deficiencies (Boeing/FAA certification fiasco), this should include frequent (quarterly) neutral inter-agency audits. Those who meet all requirements will have the least burden from such audits. It will require a lot of auditors, but I suspect they will save much more than their number in unnecessary aviation deaths. Accidents and incidents will not be eliminated (perfection is impossible), but greatly reduced amongst voluntary participants. Unwilling operators would be reduced to national (domestic) flights/activities, or in the case of agreements between unwilling participant countries, international flights between known non-participants. Direct bottom-line (financial result) pressure is the only pressure understood by most commercial operations, and professionals such as you will find your good influence and intent totally eliminated by poor (unconscionable) high-level management decisions and controls.
It is crazy how clear the way you explained this matter, even though I'm Indonesian and we have quite a few explanation too by our own aviation people, but the way you told the whole story is so easy to understand. Thank you, Petter!
Heard some really short news clips on radio about some near miss incidences in USA over the last week. I hope you make a video about what is up with that soon. You always provide way more info than any news coverage. I really appreciate your extremely detailed explanations.
Really great video from you as always! I use this airline quite often before financial trouble hit them. After kinda worrying about financial trouble will impact the safety, this incident sadly happen. Really want to know what happen but report not as easy to understand to people who have limited knowledge about airline industry and airplane itself. Your video really a great resource to fully understand what happen and hopefully this tragedy will be a lesson learned for any airline. Sad to see this to happen after what happen with Lion Air 610.
I’ve been noticing that your video quality be it old or the newer uploads have been consistently really really good! Kudos to you and your team. A lot of people tend to not watch old videos of a creator assuming that the quality/format won’t be as good as their recent uploads, but that’s not the case with your channel! Thank you and keep up the good work!!
I know I'm hooked when I saw a story about the air Canada Rouge flight that diverted to Jacksonville and was like, "man, I can't wait for Mentour to tell me what went wrong and explain normal, alternate, and direct law again".
Some things feel obvious when watching a 30-min breakdown of the accident but a simulation at the end showing how all this happened in just a few seconds may give more perspective (I think you've done it in some previous video)
Kudos for making this video 👍 iam a pilot in Indonesia. And this accident touched me quite a lot because some of my friends lost their loved ones and some have flown with the capt when theyre still working at sriwijaya.
Remember.. keep the blue side up 👍
@Mikoto Yes.
Keep the blue side up? That sounds like something 74gear would say.
Sorry to hear that but thank you for your feedback.
Fly safe!
Ehh ada kak gery
I love this Channel. There's something so earnest and genuine about Petter, the way he relays the events but also the context and insight his experience have earned him.
This has never been your average aviation content - this is the gold standard.
I’ve always looked for your videos to understand aviation accidents because you’re so good at explaining them. Any chance you could do Alaska Airlines 261? I find it so fascinating yet horrifying
I send these to my 20 year old son in flight training. Scares the crap out of me and hopefully gives him examples of what not to do. Thank you for making these in a non sensational manner.
@DrEricBerg569
Re ?
1.41m subscribers…..wow!
You must be absolutely amazed and amazed and proud of what you and your team have achieved, Petter! Congratulations 🥳
ps another great and well researched video as always. Thank you.
I guess if they had a much higher altitude then they may have been able to recover.
I've been watching your content for a little while and I've been enjoying it a lot. While its never great that airlines crash and have incident, they way you cover it is in the right manner and I appreciate that.
An incident that I think you would be interested in is Alaska Flight 261 and would be interesting to see covered.
24:03 I'm not a pilot but when you're flying in clouds and hear "Bank Angle" warning, shouldn't you look at the attitude indicator and maybe backup attitude indicator to figure out what to do, instead of looking or feeling the yoke? When you consider what could possibly fail in a modern jet, attitude indicator is maybe the most reliable data input you can have.
I think that's one thing I've picked up from a few of these videos - although we like to think that every Captain is going to be a Chuck Yeager who will react with 'ice cool' logic in a surprising situation or upset, most pilots are normal humans - if they're not getting regular training on upsets they can just freeze or brain fart like the rest of us.
A family member worked on the maintenance facility company at the time the crash happened. The company was in a lot of financial trouble, struggling to find funds/income, and this specific plane actually was serviced in the city that my relative worked in, if i remember correctly. This crash devastated the company basically, which is already a mess. well idk if this significant information but i thought it's worth a share.
Excellent and interesting as always Petter.
One question I have. On dual engined planes (and maybe even 4 engined) when is there ever a requirement to run one engine at a higher thrust than the other during normal operation? Has anyone ever considered having the thrust levers mechanically joined so that they cannot move independently with some kind of physical or electronic over-ride to "unjoin" them in the event that this is required?
I bet this is not the only circumstance when one needs to check multiple things that are working against each other to notice what the problem really is (in this case surplus thrust causing left turn but yoke turned to the right)
Always surprised how pilots fail to notice a critical control tool that's right next to them. I always imagine failing to notice that my car is in a high gear instead of low gear when the lever is right next to me
Especially when the auto throttle has a history of issues...!!
A great part of my enjoyment is the 'incredibly technical' explanations. Most of which I can follow, and the rest which become evident as you lucidly and coherently explain a difficult subject. Thank you for respecting the intelligence of your viewers and keep the 'incredibly technical' explanations coming.
Many thanks. I had flown with Sriwijaya several times not long before this occurred (between Jawa and Sumatra) and was of course shocked and saddened by the accident. But until today I didn't know what was the cause.
As a professional driver (18 years) I was taught always scan your gauges mirrors every few seconds. You wouldn't believe how many problems prevented by doing this. ALL PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS HOLDING OTHER PEOPLE 'S LIVES SHOULD DO THIS. ALWAYS!!!!!!???
Du är riktigt duktig, Petter. Ordentligt bra content, både lärorikt och spännande! Fortsätt så!
Petter, I really love these videos. Obviously, these are tragic events, but I'm convinced everybody could learn from this, not just airline employees. Safety culture is something that's not universally shared among people. But I must say that I was a bit shocked to see that an experienced pilot was sort of panicking and taking the wrong action. You'd think that experienced pilots would take a deep breath and at least scan the instruments before doing something wrong. In my mind it would just take a second or two to see what was going on and at that moment it would be relatively easy to correct. Just like with the other flight that experienced the same problem. In the end you never know how you react in a sudden emergency situation untill it happens. I myself had a few scary situations in a car and on the motorcycle where I was happy to find out that I didn't panic and hit the brakes immediately and/or turn the steering wheel, like many people do in a panic reaction. But like you indicated, these pilots had just one session with the upset scenario. I was thinking that in flight school with simulators, they'd train more with sudden emergency scenarios so that you learn to remain calm and not panic and make the situation worse.
So, keep 'm coming, your videos are really the best in this category. Your no-nonsense, no sensationalism, no stretching for time and trying to build up the suspense like Air Crash Investigation, is highly appreciated. Just the facts and great background information so that we really understand how it all works. Discovery should hire you to do that show 😂
So sad Petter. And as always you report these tragedies with such compassion
I've always enjoyed your videos, but this is the most fascinating one I've seen yet. You did a *great* job of putting us in the pilot's mind when he got the bank angle warning; that was the best part of a great video.