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NEAR COLLISION between FedEx and Southwest | Foggy Weather

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  • Жарияланды 2023 ж. 4 Ақп.

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  • VASAviation -
    VASAviation -  Ай бұрын +1110

    Doing that with a CAT III in force and Low Visibility didn't look smart to me. Any thoughts from real ATC here?

    • Tim Doell
      Tim Doell 9 күн бұрын

      Non pilot here, what is rvr, and cat111?

    • Nathan Jordan
      Nathan Jordan 10 күн бұрын

      Not real ATC, but the only real defense to this is “but did you die?” And that’s not exactly an FAA certified policy

    • Baleno4x4
      Baleno4x4 20 күн бұрын

      ​@BearusAureliusyes but it takes at least 90 seconds to be airbone. Fdx was at 3 nm.

    • Baleno4x4
      Baleno4x4 20 күн бұрын

      ​@Arcadiez not smart or bad procedures.

  • meoka2368
    meoka2368 Ай бұрын +2534

    Props to that FedEx pilot.
    Was asking "are you *sure* we can land?" and then made the right call to not do so even after being reassured that they can.

    • Adam Moreira
      Adam Moreira 20 күн бұрын

      @up2high - Anyone can out of safety. But WN was already through V1.

    • Adam Moreira
      Adam Moreira 20 күн бұрын

      @Bilyonare Lifestile - Visibility was only 1/4 mile. Most likely, FX only saw the situation when it finally broke out of the clouds. At that point, FX declared a missed approach. But WN was already through V1.

    • meoka2368
      meoka2368 28 күн бұрын +1

      @lookoutforchris The hell are you talking about?

    • lookoutforchris
      lookoutforchris 28 күн бұрын

      Dealing with a new diversity hire is always rough.

    • Pilot4Hire
      Pilot4Hire Ай бұрын

      @Ghost_Hybrid "The abort call provided vital SA to Southwest prompting him not to do the standard takeoff takeoff climb rate." Says who? Definitely not the swapa safety rep that was talking about his.

  • Owen Merrick
    Owen Merrick Ай бұрын +1374

    When Fed-Ex asked for confirmation, it seems he was the only one who knew it was too close. Spring loaded for the go-around. Smart.

    • Owen Merrick
      Owen Merrick 19 күн бұрын

      @Adam Moreira He was, Fed-Ex's initial call to Tower was at 5.4. He would've been talking to a center previous, and already established on the Category III ILS approach.

    • Adam Moreira
      Adam Moreira 20 күн бұрын

      Why was there a 3 mile final when visibility was only 1/4 to 1/8 of a statute mile according to the METAR? One should have had a 10 mile final.

    • D W
      D W Ай бұрын +1

      @garthcox4 who much rr was left to use?

    • D W
      D W Ай бұрын

      It implys FED X could see SWA. So could tower.

    • Matthew G
      Matthew G Ай бұрын

      @Terry Gaus WN didn't want to wait for the wake turbulence to dissipate from the heavy landing, and then ignored the instruction not to take off and climb right into Express' belly on the go around. Southwest needed every takeoff they can get, and they're willing to risk their pax to get them.

  • keita salmon
    keita salmon Ай бұрын +1010

    good thing Fedex pilot was on the ball, probably expected what was going on, yet kept calm and professional. kudos to him.

    • lookoutforchris
      lookoutforchris 28 күн бұрын

      He could probably tell he had a proteas soon as he heard the ATC accent.

    • Greg Manning
      Greg Manning Ай бұрын

      This is why pilots are (or at least should be) trained to be "spring loaded" to go around. Meaning a go around should be your "default state" and continuing an approach should be the state that requires effort. Then, the moment something is amiss, the natural response is to commit a successful go around.

    • Jon Schaefer
      Jon Schaefer Ай бұрын +1

      @Philip Resnick In that kind of weather, they have already gone over missed-approach procedures.

    • Philip Resnick
      Philip Resnick Ай бұрын +3

      His verification call right after the SW was cleared was the clue he was not digging what was happening. I'm sure inside the cockpit, he and the co had a chat about possible go-around plans.

    • J007 Taylor
      J007 Taylor Ай бұрын +5

      @Jon Schaefer what if SWA aborted and fedex landed right behind them? Chances of that happening is low, but never zero.

  • Russ
    Russ Ай бұрын +478

    This was way too close a call and literally seconds from a disaster. Props to FedEx for realizing what was happening.

    • geddon436
      geddon436 25 күн бұрын

      @needmycoffee I can understand for the small planes, but the big commercial jets, I would feel safe flying in those.

    • Richard M
      Richard M Ай бұрын

      ​@needmycoffee lmao okay. Pilots did what they were trained to do.

    • Autumn Wind
      Autumn Wind Ай бұрын +1

      @needmycoffee It is the safest form of transportation. I have flown thousands of miles and am much more anxious getting into my private vehicle for a trip.

    • Ironmanwwr
      Ironmanwwr Ай бұрын +1

      @HowBoutDemBoyzz oh sorry wrong comment

  • Richard
    Richard Ай бұрын +424

    As a 29 year retired ATC I have but one question: WTF was the local controller thinking?

    • DF
      DF 9 күн бұрын

      @GanadoCoog heck yeah you nailed it. AA is empowering the incompetent

    • Brian D.
      Brian D. 17 күн бұрын

      Probably Texting His Girlfriend!

    • MDE_never_dies
      MDE_never_dies 24 күн бұрын

      @KGM No

    • KGM
      KGM 24 күн бұрын +2

      @MDE_never_dies You mean the Amish?

    • MDE_never_dies
      MDE_never_dies 24 күн бұрын +2

      He sounds like he belongs to a certain demographic that I will get in trouble for mentioning.

  • Ron Lucock
    Ron Lucock Ай бұрын +267

    "You have our apologies, we appreciate your professionalism."
    Understatement of the year.

    • nirfz
      nirfz 19 күн бұрын +7

      No chance for saving his job here, and he knows that perfectly well. And knowing ATCs personally, this was not the intention of the statement. It's a form of thanking and admitting the error while keeping radio discipline.
      You can hear the voice of the ATC breaking while saying this. This guy knows that his action almost killed a lot of people.
      Even if he would not loose his job, only sociopaths and psychopaths would be able to continue on this job after such an incident. (And their voice would not have broken)
      Most people urgently need psychological treatment after such a mistake to even be able to continue their life.

    • cpt nordbart
      cpt nordbart 24 күн бұрын

      This could have been Tenerife 2 if we had two passenger planes.

    • MiGujack3
      MiGujack3 Ай бұрын +1

      And it just barely started lol

    • Bob Gregory
      Bob Gregory Ай бұрын +6

      @rslcgrad1004 Too late for that....

  • Erik Werner
    Erik Werner Ай бұрын +4156

    I would have given the tower a number to call.

    • cpt nordbart
      cpt nordbart 24 күн бұрын

      Southwest is know to go quick and don't hang around much

    • brunoais
      brunoais 26 күн бұрын

      I was told by someone claiming to have heard the recording, the number to call was shared after the plane finished taxing.

    • Timothy Connolly
      Timothy Connolly Ай бұрын

      He just didnt get the funny comment. Don't feel like you need to explain. " You just walk over!!!" "You don't give out your cell number!!!" The rest of us were onboard 😜

    • Luiz Alex Phoenix
      Luiz Alex Phoenix Ай бұрын

      "Please confirm when you are able to write down a number for you to call for possible controller deviation."

    • Mara
      Mara Ай бұрын

      Agree 👍

  • ib iro
    ib iro Ай бұрын +607

    I’ve had to wait because a 172 was on 3 mile final. This is insane.

    • jazzi_04
      jazzi_04 27 күн бұрын

      @ib iro That voice does sound like a diversity hire.

    • Jake 6401
      Jake 6401 Ай бұрын

      "Caution wake turbulence"

    • ib iro
      ib iro Ай бұрын

      @katovomkozies what does diversity have to do with this?

    • I Fly SRQ
      I Fly SRQ Ай бұрын

      Yep, me too, so I was thinking the exact same thing you did!

    • Aviation and other stuff
      Aviation and other stuff Ай бұрын +1

      @Umbreon Pokemon Austin gets busy during the day, but definitely not at 7 in the morning. The southwest would have had to wait at least a couple minutes after the FedEx due to wake turbulence and no wind.

  • Sam
    Sam Ай бұрын +182

    Near-death experience, yet their voice might reflect someone having a cup of tea in the morning and commenting on the news. Incredible professionalism from the pilots.

    • Chris Sparks
      Chris Sparks Ай бұрын +1

      I don't think they knew how close they were at the time.

    • Bob Dole
      Bob Dole Ай бұрын

      listening to the voice is exactly how I could tell you this was predictable

    • Native Virginian
      Native Virginian Ай бұрын +4

      My husband is a pilot. Total confidence & cool as a cucumber, even when the oil pressure in his 172started dropping over the Chesapeake Bay.

  • John
    John Ай бұрын +154

    At 140 knots 3 nm out, the FedEx would take 67 seconds to land. SWA doesn’t begin his takeoff roll until 70 seconds after he has received takeoff clearance. Yikes! Hats off to a very situationally aware FedEx crew. Also, think of the wake turbulence the 737 might have encountered so close to the ground from a going-around powered-up 767 right above him. We were lucky with this one.

    • Matt Page
      Matt Page 26 күн бұрын

      @Eric Pahlke typically it’s less than 30 seconds to begin roll. You call up tower when you’re ready to go, then it’s just turning onto center and throttle in. Often you’re throttling in when you’re almost fully lined up. You can KZclip interior views of departures and you’ll see it usually doesn’t take long at all. SWA either took way to long getting onto the RWY or centered up and sat for some reason. To me it sounds like SWA was not ready to depart or lose situational awareness as to the arriving traffic when they accepted takeoff clearance.

    • Eric Pahlke
      Eric Pahlke 26 күн бұрын +2

      How long after the takeoff clearance do they typically start the roll? Was 70 seconds an insane outlier, or just a bit longer than normal?

    • Matt Page
      Matt Page Ай бұрын +3

      @Valerie Rodger he was told there was a 76 on a 3 mile final. That gave him roughly 65/75 seconds to depart or, 30/40 seconds to start his takeoff roll. All which is perfectly normal. No need to say no delay, just be aware of inbound traffic

    • Matt Page
      Matt Page Ай бұрын +2

      My thoughts exactly! SWA took too long to begin roll knowing there was a 76 coming in behind him. Shouldn't have taken over 40 seconds to being the roll

    • Jay C
      Jay C Ай бұрын +2

      @floyd sampson nope, SWA was under him

  • Delta Romeo
    Delta Romeo Ай бұрын +61

    Military ATC and commercial rated pilot/CFI here. There is such a thing as efficient controlling, but this looked way too aggressive to me. Even before I knew what the outcome, I caught my breath when he cleared the SWA with a heavy on 3 mile final with those flight conditions. In any of ATC facilities I worked in, that would have been a near certain de-certification, with the inevitable HATR investigation pointing the finger straight at ATC 100% on this one. We get blamed for a lot of incidents where it really wasn't an ATC deal, but this one is a sure-nuff deal.

    • MikeGranby
      MikeGranby Ай бұрын +4

      @Andrew D Quite! I believe later in the exchange the controller asks one of the aircraft to report clear of the runway, which again is indication that he couldn't see a bloody thing...

    • Andrew D
      Andrew D Ай бұрын +3

      @MikeGranby +1 add to that you would ONLY allow it if you had eyes on aircraft to see if he is even on the runway.

    • MikeGranby
      MikeGranby Ай бұрын +13

      Quite. Simultaneously too aggressive and too laid back. If you’re gonna give a clearance like that, which is dubious to begin with, it better be “immediate takeoff” with a “no delay” thrown in there for good measure…

  • echo314
    echo314 Ай бұрын +160

    For a man who knows he is about to be fired, he was very calm and professional. Those pilots are great for not tying up the radio laying into the controller.

    • Tom Spinach
      Tom Spinach 4 күн бұрын

      @Chuck Sneed Sneed

    • Jemand
      Jemand 28 күн бұрын

      @Jay C what's the same reason?

    • chuckschilling
      chuckschilling Ай бұрын

      @squiggleworks9 Ask yourself WHY race is apparent in this case and why someone who is clearly incompetent and clearly should never have been handed this position of great responsibility would have been placed in it. Why are you ignoring the elephant in the room whose backside is inches from your nostrils?

  • Bill Huston Podcast
    Bill Huston Podcast Ай бұрын +1229

    Forget the fog, this was a CLEAR ATC F-up. Wow. No panic in anyone's voice. That was a close call.

    • Adam Moreira
      Adam Moreira Ай бұрын

      @Robert Gates - Called “Cleared for Disaster”.

    • mawelsh
      mawelsh Ай бұрын +1

      @Alan Holck Yep a guy on my paper route was killed in that crash.

    • Alan Holck
      Alan Holck Ай бұрын

      @He who has no identity Thanks for the clarification - the point is that she cleared 2 aircraft to be on same runway. Bad day for everyone involved.

    • katovomkozies
      katovomkozies Ай бұрын +1

      But at least the tower now has diversity!

  • Ken
    Ken Ай бұрын +15

    The most polite near death experience ever. 5 stars

  • Greazy Guidus
    Greazy Guidus Ай бұрын +55

    A lot of controllers I work with are pretty upset about these actions by this controller. I work at a center facility and this is just speculation, but I'm willing to bet this controller was pushed through training too quickly just to cover staffing numbers. ATC had a training and hiring pause for 2 years because of covid, in an already understaffed agency. Between that and a bunch of controllers retiring during covid we've taken a huge hit across the board. I know some facilities work 6 day mandatories during the summer with a lot of overtime. Even an approach control under my airspace called ATC 0 a couple times because of a sick hit and no one to staff the evening shift. So between a 2 year gap of no hiring or TRAINING, now we are trying to bridge the gap with a ton of trainees where management says to expedite their training. And ontop of that the FAA has a list and sends trainees to facilities where they need staffing instead of the older way of trainees picking 2 regions they want to work at. So you'll get people from Florida sent to Seattle, only to spend 4 years in training then transfer right back to Florida. So its a massive waste of time and we have to double train everybody. It's a mess

    • toricup17
      toricup17 Ай бұрын +1

      If they didn't put an age cut off for ATC I would have applied. I get their reasoning but in this day and age, people changing careers later in life, they should accept applicants over 30 years old

    • Things Nerds Do
      Things Nerds Do Ай бұрын +2

      So in a nutshell, government sucks at doing most things. Color me shocked.

    • ropersonline
      ropersonline Ай бұрын +6

      @Ted Striker New or not, we're all observing him now. 😀

    • Ted Striker
      Ted Striker Ай бұрын

      wouldn't a fairly new controller be required to be observed for a period of time?

  • Bob Az
    Bob Az Ай бұрын +117

    FedEx Pilot gets the hero award here.

    • culdeus
      culdeus Ай бұрын

      @brosk1s Not doubting this but is this a fact/confirmed by FAA or someone directly?

    • brosk1s
      brosk1s Ай бұрын +11

      @BurnCycle it was hardly a routine go around, the only thing stopping both aircraft from crashing into each other was a measly 30 feet of vertical separation

    • kenito1967
      kenito1967 Ай бұрын +5

      @BurnCycle .... I'll bet the captain won the bet with his FO (co-pilot) that they'll get closer than 500 feet to Southwest. He'll be buying the beers all month.

    • BurnCycle
      BurnCycle Ай бұрын

      He executed a go-around. It happens often. He didn't rescue orphans from a burning building.

  • pi314
    pi314 Ай бұрын +176

    Insane. Both tower and SW apparently asleep at the switch regarding the 800/2 weather requirement to protect the CATII/III landing zone. "Cleared for takeoff, traffic 3 mile final" is really pushing it on a clear day, unthinkable in bad vis. This is as close as it gets and everyone still gets to sleep in their beds that night. Except for that poor tower guy who will not get much sleep for a long time.

    • John Jones
      John Jones 20 күн бұрын

      @Joel T Keep proving my point.

    • Joel T
      Joel T Ай бұрын

      @Serious Cat yawn.....

    • Serious Cat
      Serious Cat Ай бұрын

      @Joel T, please consider growing up.

  • Ghost_Hybrid
    Ghost_Hybrid Ай бұрын +2

    Hats off to the pilots here for being calm and professional with the controller. A little kindness costs you nothing, and humiliating the tower controller could have caused him to mentally shut down. Well done, glad this incident did not become a more serious mishap.

  • Veritas1992
    Veritas1992 Ай бұрын +2484

    The controllers I know are PISSED about this because this was grossly ATC’s fault. There’s no justification for launching a 737 in front of a 767 on a 3 mile final. On a good day that’s pushing it. Add weather and it’s a recipe for a disaster. If it wasn’t foggy I bet they would have shit bricks if they really knew how close they were.

    • 12345fowler
      12345fowler Ай бұрын

      @morgan ghetti We will see the details when the FAA release it's report.

    • morgan ghetti
      morgan ghetti Ай бұрын

      @Jeff M Rolling takeoffs aren't uncommon when it's clear. Not when it's zero visibility. 100 percent poor decision making by ATC. I've never seen anyone do what he did in 10 years of ATC. That airport isn't remotely busy enough to be running squeeze plays and certainly not in that weather.

    • morgan ghetti
      morgan ghetti Ай бұрын

      @12345fowler it's not legal. He needs 2 miles increasing to 3. He didn't have that and wasn't going to get it that close in Cat3. He can't apply visual when he can't see either airplane.

    • Donald Teed
      Donald Teed Ай бұрын

      @Bailey Davis There is no "Swiss Cheese" in this story. There are only TWO pilots on the radio talking to ATC. No room for confusion there. There is only one runway. No room for confusion there. It's very simple: you don't clear one plane to enter a runway for take-off at the same time as another is cleared to land in one minute. The ATC person should be fired before there are fatalities. It's the same as if they walked downtown firing a pistol randomly - is it all okay until someone is hurt?

    • Jay Kay
      Jay Kay Ай бұрын

      @thefactorypilot145 right? Call sign 123, winds 140/9 traffic on a 3mile 22. 13 cleared for takeoff. I’m like. That dude is on a 1.5-2mile but sure let’s toga

  • Alex G
    Alex G Ай бұрын +14

    Clearing a 737 to takeoff in CATIII with a heavy on a 3 mile final is insanity. No other way around it.

  • Kimberly Wentworth
    Kimberly Wentworth Ай бұрын +45

    That Fed-Ex pilot is really good. Good radio calls. Speaks well and seems like a really good pilot.

    • Rusk
      Rusk Ай бұрын

      @Valerie Rodger If the diagram is synced then I doubt they had reached V1, but that wasn't the point. The point is there is no reason AC cannot communicate directly over Tower in order to deconflict and prevent a midair.

    • Rusk
      Rusk Ай бұрын +3

      @Michael Hodges what? Not a "good thing" in what context and by who's standard? If FedEx has better SA, ATC isn't stepping in, they can absolutely send instructions to avoid midair. South West chose not to comply. Okay. But it's better than doing nothing.

    • Jake Kitzmiller
      Jake Kitzmiller Ай бұрын +2

      Alot of Fedex pilots are ex military. Not all but alot of them are.

    • Rusk
      Rusk Ай бұрын +11

      @morgan ghetti who cares about the controller or the origin of the transmission? The instruction is for Southwest to make sure they don't climb into FedEx. Hell at that point if I was FedEx I would have instructed South West to offset and maintain altitude to deconflict since the controller sure as hell wasn't doing anything.

    • morgan ghetti
      morgan ghetti Ай бұрын +11

      Calling "Southwest abort" was a terrible call. The controller could have heard that as southwest making the call they are aborting.

  • chim reynolds
    chim reynolds Ай бұрын +68

    I was a Ramp Agent for FedEx at MEMH some 17 or 18 years ago when ATC mistakenly put two departing flights on the opposite runways of where they needed to be. Example, FLT 841 headed East and FLT 814 headed West. The end result was two A300's crossing airspace at around 2500 ft. One had a head start over the other, so there was no chance of collision, but from the ground it looked pretty insane...

    • charles ferry
      charles ferry Ай бұрын +1

      @Perry Rush when wind is calm or nill any runway can be utilized.

    • Perry Rush
      Perry Rush Ай бұрын +1

      I thought they always had them take off into the wind. I don't think I've heard of them changing the direction like that. I'll take your word for it, but I never saw that when I was out there. Oh well. Stra be days we live in.

  • CPT. MM
    CPT. MM Ай бұрын +7

    You can feel the emotion in the voice of the ATC when he said “professionalism”

  • Jerry Butler
    Jerry Butler Ай бұрын +81

    I would seriously like to know what ATC was thinking letting that Southwest go knowing a FedEx was on a 3-mile final. Common sense says that you let the FedEx come in and depart the runway before letting Southwest go. As for Southwest, he has a share in this too because he didn't wait until FedEx did his landing. How the FedEx pilot kept his cool is more than I'll ever know. Props to the FedEx crew.

    • MalcolmCooks
      MalcolmCooks Ай бұрын +1

      reported several comments in this thread for hate speech.... don't argue back guys, they are trying to be inflammatory, just report and block

    • sigheyeroll
      sigheyeroll Ай бұрын +1

      @ddylla85 Tracey didn't say anything fkn dumb or blatantly racist. "Paradox of tolerance". Look it up.

    • Aquatic Ape
      Aquatic Ape Ай бұрын +3

      @VOIP4ME I didn't say it. 150+ years of clinical, scientific, data-supported research said it. Eastern Asians have the highest IQs in the world. Northern Europeans are second. Indians are third. Africans are waaaaaay down the list. Australian and South American aboriginals are at the bottom. ON AVERAGE. Being mad about this is an illogical and a purely emotional response.

  • marius kuhrau
    marius kuhrau Ай бұрын +512

    Damm, I could not believe that this ATC gave that Southwest clearance for takeoff, knowing that FedEx was on a short 3 mile final cleared to land on the same runway. If that FedEx had a sudden tailwind factor, it could have turned into a deadly disaster. This ATC was taking a huge and very dangerous gamble in Foggy conditions. 😠😠

    • RevWillieG
      RevWillieG Ай бұрын

      @Jersey Shore Drone Services He had no way to know who called abort

    • RevWillieG
      RevWillieG Ай бұрын +1

      @Mega Davis My thought as well. Why didn't Souithwest say, we'll wait for FedEx to land? 3 miles out is about a minute and 20 seconds from landing.

    • Labour Law Act
      Labour Law Act Ай бұрын +2

      @V1AbortV2 We have the same bm running our country South Africa. That's why the place has turned into a dump.

  • Matej Ceglar
    Matej Ceglar Ай бұрын +83

    One extra thing that should be pointed out is that FedEx was on CAT III app, so no metal should be moving around in the ILS sensitive area during his approach.

    • robo931
      robo931 20 күн бұрын

      @M B again, flight simulator doesn’t count.

    • M B
      M B 20 күн бұрын +1

      @robo931 I sincerely doubt that you do, because I ACTUALLY fly widebodies and would be embarrassed to know that a colleague doesn’t know how Cat3 ILS protections work.

    • robo931
      robo931 20 күн бұрын

      @M B again, I fly widebody aircraft for a legacy airline and am well aware of how CAT III approaches work. Stick to flight simulator.

  • the bog
    the bog Ай бұрын +4

    Sweet, impromptu airshow! We should be thanking ATC for such a well coordinated performance :)

  • Jonathan Beattie
    Jonathan Beattie Ай бұрын +64

    The controller must have thought the southwest abort call had come from the south west hence the turn right when able (as in vacate the runway). FedEx obviously broke cloud and saw the southwest still rolling and tried to get them abort so they could go around safely. What a mess, hats off to the fedex crew for their situational awareness

    • Bartmanfly
      Bartmanfly Ай бұрын +3

      @안댕댕 The EFVS was probably not used. It isn't required on a Cat III. It really isn't that useful in visible moisture anyway

    • pilotrobroy
      pilotrobroy Ай бұрын +1

      Midfield RVR was called at 600 feet. that is about 3 secs at 140 knots.

    • 안댕댕
      안댕댕 Ай бұрын +10

      With fog there are no clouds to break as the cloud sits on the ground. Moreover FedEx aircraft are equipped with EFVS (infrared vision system), so the crew likely saw what was going on from the beginning, and acted accordingly.

    • NicolaW72
      NicolaW72 Ай бұрын +2

      Yes, indeed.

  • General Rendar
    General Rendar Ай бұрын +110

    It would have been nice for ATC to at least ask for a no delay takeoff. 3 mile final is way too tight for a normal takeoff call.

    • New York’s Beer Reviews
      New York’s Beer Reviews Ай бұрын

      With visibility really low that would have been a bad idea.

    • Bruh
      Bruh Ай бұрын

      @Krozar TAL sop’s are different at every carrier, but at the two 121 carriers I’ve worked for, I can tell you neither of which had such a rule or policy. Still silly to do such a thing in CAT III weather.

    • Adam Moreira
      Adam Moreira Ай бұрын +1

      With visibility issues, on a 3-mile final, WN should have been held at the hold line.

    • Krozar TAL
      Krozar TAL Ай бұрын +6

      Low vis SOP won't allow for a no-delay takeoff.

    • Mike P
      Mike P Ай бұрын +8

      cant do that in low vis

  • Kiss Of Fire
    Kiss Of Fire Ай бұрын +3

    I would have expected frenzied screeches, and panicked pilots, but wow, the quiet and calm and chill by all concerned is mindblowing! And those was one mighty near miss!

  • ChrisLDrums
    ChrisLDrums Ай бұрын +345

    I'm not ATC but I do know there's no way in hell we could have expected any other outcome from this decision.

    • Jack
      Jack Ай бұрын

      @He who has no identity The "clearing aircraft to land" before the runway is clear actually works perfectly fine. It cuts down on unnecessary communications during the most critical moments of flight. Don't think it works? Data and real world statistics back it up for all major U.S. airports that use that type of clearance for decades i.e. ATL, ORD, LAX etc. One thing to remember though, most of those major airports are using a runway to land only, and takeoff only. Not both operations on the same runway. So clearing to land an aircraft with others behind them makes perfect sense. With basically all major airports utilizing high-speed taxiways to exit the runway, there is no need to communicate again to an aircraft they are cleared to land, after they already called in to tower for clearance.

    • Ruben Villanueva
      Ruben Villanueva Ай бұрын

      @SB Just wondering, have you read the investigative report on the Tenerife incident?

    • Ruben Villanueva
      Ruben Villanueva Ай бұрын

      @He who has no identity Sorry, I believe your naivety and lack of ATC procedures is showing. Back to the basement
      and your video games.

    • Ruben Villanueva
      Ruben Villanueva Ай бұрын +1

      @BurnCycle I interpret your comment as a form of releasing frustration. Were you a controller?. The phraseology I quoted, is legal and is used, but other factors come into play, such as having visual contact with SW and certainly with the FDx. For some reason stupid reason, with a 200 ft ceiling, and low RVR readings, and an Fdx on a Cat III appch, he puts SW on the rwy. I doubt the controller had visual with SW, as he had to ask if he was "rolling", he rolled the dice and nearly bought the farm.

    • BurnCycle
      BurnCycle Ай бұрын

      @Ruben Villanueva There is no "cleared or". You either are or aren't. If SW said they weren't, it would have been "Takeoff clearance canceled". It's "are you ready?", and if the answer is yes, it's "No delay...traffic 3 mile final".

  • rm06wes
    rm06wes Ай бұрын +13

    Situation like these illustrate why professionalism matters! Everyone stayed professional, did not increased each other stress, and had a positive outcome. We can criticize ATC decision at a later time, the pilot did a great job!!!

    • Dre-Aguto
      Dre-Aguto Ай бұрын +5

      This. Cannot be stressed enough the professionalism displayed here

  • CharlieCharlieWhiskey
    CharlieCharlieWhiskey Ай бұрын +2

    This is one of those situations where I would argue that choosing not to make a report against the ATC would be inherently poor airmanship.
    Even if the report goes nowhere, or there are mitigating factors, it is your duty as an airman to do your part to keep the skies (and airports) safe.
    So I really hope fedex made a report after taking company advice.

  • Ehm Ha
    Ehm Ha Ай бұрын +37

    And that's why I don't have a fear of flying but a fear of someone having a bad day at work

    • Red
      Red Ай бұрын

      My fear as well!

  • Matthew Chapman
    Matthew Chapman Ай бұрын +7

    Launching a 737 in front of a 767 on a 3-mile final is pushing it close when the weather is VFR. It's absolutely dangerous when it's low IFR. I was surprised that the controller didn't at LEAST tell Southwest, "clear for takeoff 18L, NO DELAY," but instead, he just cleared them nonchalantly for takeoff

    • cal g
      cal g 23 күн бұрын

      DEI hiring at work

  • Dan I
    Dan I Ай бұрын +84

    Good old Southwest, always moving at the speed of heat until you need them to

    • Jack
      Jack Ай бұрын +1

      @Madwolf Gaming it sound like this is something they do regularly, which is just scary if it is.

    • Madwolf Gaming
      Madwolf Gaming Ай бұрын +2

      You can fault Southwest here for going ahead with the approved take off, despite the FedEx aircraft being on short final. However, ATC did give the approval for take off. Even with a expedited take off, this was far too close in these conditions to approve Southwest for take off.

    • Awesomest Greatest Mostest Funniest Craziest
  • Ivan Tcherniaev
    Ivan Tcherniaev Ай бұрын +111

    While clearly ATC is at fault here, I do have to ask: why did Southwest pilots accepted departure with FedEx on 3 mile final (and closing)? Especially with FedEx clearly voicing their concern just seconds prior...

    • OneLifeToGame
      OneLifeToGame Ай бұрын

      This! It leads me to question the Southwest pilot's situational awareness also. If he's monitoring tower freq he knows that FedEx is on short final for 18L, so why contact tower saying you are ready to go for 18L. You've been holding short of 18L, and we would assume tower is aware of that fact. So did he really think he could safely leap ahead of the landing aircraft. I don't get it...

    • Ted Striker
      Ted Striker Ай бұрын +2

      @Sirius Enigma it was just one controller

    • Jim Hyslop
      Jim Hyslop Ай бұрын +3

      @Sirius Enigma No, it's one operator. He screwed up big time.

    • Ivan Tcherniaev
      Ivan Tcherniaev Ай бұрын +1

      @Sirius Enigma Good point. I usually start monitoring tower frequency long before I get to the runway hold short line so I was thinking from my reference point of view.

    • Sirius Enigma
      Sirius Enigma Ай бұрын

      Two different ATC operators. They might have been on different frequencies until fedex asked SW to aboard.

  • Felix Rowan
    Felix Rowan Ай бұрын +3

    There's close calls, and then there's aircraft flying on top of each other.
    This incident seems to be pretty severe given that it did not appear to take much to cause it.

  • SolarWebsite
    SolarWebsite Ай бұрын +20

    This has strong Tenerife disaster vibes. Good thing this ended differently.

  • Johnathan Chuprun
    Johnathan Chuprun Ай бұрын +15

    Possible ATC deviation, please advise when ready to copy the cockpit's number.

  • Rusk
    Rusk Ай бұрын +13

    I had a tower turn me base in a 172 while Citation was on an ILS approach. I didn't have visual and told them that. It was already twilight. Finally when I got visual, I was almost right in front of them. And had to firewall, extend the base and cross in front of them. I learned that day that ATC will absolutely get you killed if they aren't paying attention or misjudge something and treat their instructions more as a suggestion than an absolute rule. I will do what I need to do to keep my AC safe and then follow instructions as able.

  • luv2fly
    luv2fly Ай бұрын +2

    AUS ATC was out to lunch. That controller had NO situational awareness of what was about to happen. Hats off to the Fed Ex crew! VASAviation, awesome job putting this together.

  • T Le
    T Le Ай бұрын +150

    If Southwest was lined up on runway then I think a 3 mile final on the landing plane would be enough separation. Southwest took almost 30 seconds to enter runway and start rolling. In that 30 seconds, Fedex has covered the 1.5 miles (approximately). Bad decision on ATC. Good thing Fedex was aware and confirmed they are cleared to land with traffic in front and made the go around

    • acasualviewer
      acasualviewer 23 күн бұрын +1

      I think Southwest should have rejected and waited. The PIC should make the decision that is safest and with a plane coming in at 3nm he shouldn't have allowed himself to be rushed. Safety first. Just because ATC says do this, doesn't mean you need to accept it without you also checking for safety. Redundant checks save lives.

    • Thorstein Klingenberg
      Thorstein Klingenberg Ай бұрын

      @Michael Or expedite.

    • Michael
      Michael Ай бұрын +1

      Should there have been a "no delay " instruction given?

    • John
      John Ай бұрын +4

      The graphic specifically states that the time has not been trimmed. It took 70 seconds for SWA to begin its takeoff roll after receiving takeoff clearance. FedEx covered 3 nm at 140 knots in 67 seconds. The only entity with 100% situational awareness here is FedEx. Bravo Zulu!

    • Blake
      Blake Ай бұрын +4

      They were expecting that classic southwest turn and burn lol. But in all seriousness it was just a really bad decision by atc to do that

  • c42
    c42 Ай бұрын +41

    Tower controller from a European cargo hub here, even in normal weather conditions clearing a B737 for take-off in front of a heavy arrival at 3NM final is extremely tight, especially when the departure is at the holding point and not already lined up - that would already be an immediate take-off for me if lined up. In CAT II or III, the holding point is further away from the RWY to keep the critical area of the ILS free. Given that, the fact that the aircraft can't see each other until FDX breaks 200ft ceiling and the simple fact that the critical area is infringed... I just sincerely hope the controller had a complete blackout and this is not what tha FAA trains.

    • nirfz
      nirfz 19 күн бұрын

      Am from europe too. With retraining you mean "AIS or FIC or office duty" right? I can't imagine any normal human to be able to work the same job again after making that a mistake. You can clearly hear his voice break at the end when he apologizes. (How often do you see a grown man cry after making a mistake...) Without severe psychological help i don't think he's even able to enter his workplace again or talk to his collegues. (at least for most people i know, including a couple of TWR, APP and Center controllers, i'd claim this would be the case)

    • tch5802
      tch5802 Ай бұрын

      Rumour has it that the USA has greatly relaxed its minimal standards for ATCs in the last years for political reasons. 😂

    • c42
      c42 Ай бұрын +1

      @Vollelektrolysierer In Europe, that's not allowed, correct.

    • Vollelektrolysierer
      Vollelektrolysierer Ай бұрын

      @c42 Is clearing one aircraft to land and another to take off on/from the same runway also not allowed in European ATC?

  • Brian Jackson
    Brian Jackson Ай бұрын +4

    Imagine if the SWA was in FDXs blind spot by the time they cleared they could see the runway. This is actually insane

  • ahtan2000
    ahtan2000 Ай бұрын +1

    Fed pilot last “thank you” was so nonchalant, so cool

  • SkyHighGuys
    SkyHighGuys Ай бұрын

    This is nerve wracking thinking how close we were in the last month to two massive collisions.

  • Stefano Nicoloso
    Stefano Nicoloso Ай бұрын +7

    This is crazy, where I work the departing plane has to start rolling prior the approaching plane reaches 4nm from touchdown, this of course to maintain separation in case of a go around, I don’t know the rule this controller applied but when he cleared the southwest for takeoff the other one was 3 miles!

  • 73Av8r
    73Av8r Ай бұрын +325

    Just because you get a takeoff clearance doesn’t mean you have to. Sometimes you have to tell them you’d rather wait.

    • Thomas Dahl
      Thomas Dahl 26 күн бұрын

      Maybe it would be a little safer to go around but also turn away from the runway, say 15 degrees left, to ensure that the other one taking off while you're landing won't be just ahead of you. This might upset ATC but since ATC f*cked up, it doesn't matter here. I would not go around keeping the runway heading, knowing another plane is on the same heading

    • Adam Moreira
      Adam Moreira Ай бұрын

      Check the METAR for this day…WN should arguably have waited until FX landed before entering the runway. Visibility was near zero.

    • Gozur 737
      Gozur 737 Ай бұрын

      @Topet Hermohenes Sorry, it was not my intention to talk down to you. I apologize. I am pretty familiar with AUS and do know the layout.
      I did find this reconstruction. Assuming it is accurate, Southwest began the takeoff roll 50 seconds after they acknowledged the takeoff clearance. That is not an inordinate amount of time given the weather conditions in my opinion.
      They never should have been given a takeoff clearance in the first place.
      On a clear and a million day, it probably would have worked, but never with 1/4 mile.
      kzclip.org/video/DjoDn8zQgb8/бейне.html

    • Topet Hermohenes
      Topet Hermohenes Ай бұрын

      @Gozur 737 I'm familiar with the rules, just not on the specific layout of the airport. Maybe checklists? We have company rules of not making any checklist/flows when taxiing in low vis ops hence a slight delay.

  • Caio Braga
    Caio Braga Ай бұрын +1

    Not the first mishap at AUS. The controller's complacency is astonishing. Something got change over there.

  • matt b
    matt b Ай бұрын +8

    I've seen this animation a number of times, and even knowing the outcome, my heart always races.

  • Erica Wright
    Erica Wright Ай бұрын +11

    I’ve been waiting for you to post this since I heard about the incursion! Thank you; what a scary time for everyone involved-could’ve been a really bad ending!

    • Elsuprimo06
      Elsuprimo06 Ай бұрын

      This was not an incursion. It was an operational error resulting from controller negligence/incompetence.

  • Velocity Raptor
    Velocity Raptor Ай бұрын

    I work at an airport and I've seen something very similar between the same planes. It wasn't foggy either so it's likely it wasn't as much of a close call but still stressful on sure lol.

  • Janice C
    Janice C Ай бұрын +5

    It's insane how close they were. Roughly 23m or 72ish ft apart from impact.

    • Atomik
      Atomik Ай бұрын

      Closer than that honestly, the tailfin on the 737 isn't taken into account in that, and the 767's tail is likely pointed downward because he's climbing like a bat out of hell. It was probably closer to 10-20ft

  • UnshavenStatue
    UnshavenStatue Ай бұрын +157

    "we appreciate your professionalism" = "ty for not making a 'possible controller deviation' joke" (i would have lol, so it's totally true, incredible professionalism from them fedex pilots)

    • Jerry Williamson
      Jerry Williamson Ай бұрын

      @ZeCockOfTheWalk I was hoping someone would pick up on my intended pun….. LOL!

    • chris b
      chris b Ай бұрын +8

      "I have a number for you to call"

  • wouter141
    wouter141 Ай бұрын +1

    Imagine putting a 737 IN the critical ILS area during CAT III conditions with a aircraft on approach

  • Zirconium
    Zirconium Ай бұрын +1

    Great video Vasaviation
    Just a small suggestion - Since this has a flight on the runway and another landing on runway, its kinda confused when they both overlap on the picture towards the end of the video . Maybe a side view animation could have helped here to better understand what's happening here!

    • Zirconium
      Zirconium Ай бұрын +1

      @katze_sonne yes
      But we cant make out how much height difference there was between them.
      A side view could tell us whats the height difference bit more clearly

    • katze_sonne
      katze_sonne Ай бұрын

      Look at the shadows, they make it quite clear

  • Skyler Kehren
    Skyler Kehren Ай бұрын

    Wow, knowing what was coming and seeing "real silence not trimmed " shot the anxiety meter to 💯

  • 01261988733
    01261988733 Ай бұрын

    The same thing happened at LAX with the 737 and a metro liner and the WX was fairly good. the controller placed the small one on the runway and cleared the big one colliding each other. Possible controller deviation.

  • Chris Hamilton
    Chris Hamilton Ай бұрын +4

    Those are some calm voices considering what could have gone down. My hat is off to all parties.

  • Jonathan Deitch
    Jonathan Deitch Ай бұрын +225

    If you watch the SWA708 data on FR24, once they're off the ground and start climbing, FedEx overtakes them and you can actually SEE the pilots flinch, because very very very suddenly the climb STOPS at 375 feet.
    Vertical separation as they pass on the runway, if ADS is accurate, is maybe 70ft, and that's not including the height of the 737 tailfin, or the rear of the 767 lowered due to its climb.

    • Life of Ryan RC
      Life of Ryan RC Ай бұрын

      @Henrik Ryanthankfully that’s the case in this scenario

    • Cruisin Guy
      Cruisin Guy Ай бұрын

      @Henrik Ryan for one, they would have heard it directly over head. Two, anyone with a window seat almost certainly would have seen the wings overhead if they were looking out. There’s enough field of view vertical and considering how close the two were together that I have no doubts some window seat passengers spotted the 767 overhead.
      Latest info is 25’ lateral separation at the closest and less than 100’ vertical separation. You can’t miss a 767 that close.

    • Henrik Ryan
      Henrik Ryan Ай бұрын

      @Cruisin Guy nobody would know. You can’t see up or behind you from the cabin of a 37’…

    • thumperjdm
      thumperjdm Ай бұрын +1

      @Cruisin Guy No kidding! "Ladies & gentlemen, if you'll look directly above us, you'll see just how many lug nuts are on the wheels of a Boeing 767." -SW pilot

    • Adam Gunn
      Adam Gunn Ай бұрын +9

      @Dfuher He must have been past V1 because he said negative to abort

  • Sedatedbylife
    Sedatedbylife Ай бұрын

    Omg.... Just listening to ATC directions from the shower I was like "omg no you did not just clear a landing and take off on the same RW so close together..." then I watched it after the shower and my heart sank. There's a number ATC needs to call this time.
    So thankful this did not end badly.

  • yellow73914
    yellow73914 Ай бұрын

    Situations like this are why it's almost always good technique to stay off of tower frequency when an aircraft is either landing or taking off. You never want to be the guy who steps on an "Abort" or "Go-around" call.

  • brickson98m
    brickson98m Ай бұрын +3

    I’d definitely be filing an incident report on that controller. Putting another plane ahead of one on a 3 mile final, especially in weather? Yikes!
    Definitely give tower a number to call when he’s on the ground 😂

  • Ferrow
    Ferrow Ай бұрын +4

    I witnessed something like this at CGN last april, when a FedEx 777 took its time to get going and an Austrian Air A320 was on final behind it. For a few seconds both aircraft occupied the runway. If either the A320 would've had to go around or the 777 rejected the take-off that would have been unnecessarily close.

    • Ferrow
      Ferrow Ай бұрын +1

      @Tilman Eiche both ac had their mains on the ground at the same time. 320 touched down the moment the 777 had rotated and began its climb. Yeah they were at different ends of the rwy, but still, hadn't seen something like this during my spotting.

    • Tilman Eiche
      Tilman Eiche Ай бұрын

      You mean they were both rolling on the ground?
      Or just within the lateral limits of the rwy? Because cologne main rwy is close to 4km long, you have prescribed separation even when both ac are within the lateral limits...

  • Andrew Fidel
    Andrew Fidel Ай бұрын +71

    According to ADS-B data the minimum height of the FedEx 767 was 75', the tail of a 737 is 41' so they came within ~30' of FedEx clipping the tail of SW. That's as close as you're going to get without actually bending metal. It's a good thing that FedEx was using a 767-300ER with older design engines, a newer jet might not have had the engines spool up fast enough to avoid the collision.

    • Fred Fred
      Fred Fred Ай бұрын +1

      This comment. 100%.

    • rkan2
      rkan2 Ай бұрын +21

      They weren't directly on top of each other - I think the separation was a maximum of 100m when you consider the actual coordinates and the center point of the aircraft. Regardless, still insane. I don't think the engines would've made a significant difference though.

    • OlDaky
      OlDaky Ай бұрын +8

      That doesn't even include the tail of the Fedex plane being lower due to it climbing either. So we're probably closer to 15-20 feet.

  • BigHoss81
    BigHoss81 Ай бұрын +5

    Wow the Southwest flight actually took off? Did not realize that.

    • Bluedev14
      Bluedev14 Ай бұрын +2

      Likely went past his takeoff decision speed and had to

  • NightHawk787
    NightHawk787 Ай бұрын +4

    There's a really interesting KZclip short done by a former ATC in which he says some of the blame should go to the 737 pilots for telling the controller that they were ready to go and then sitting on the numbers for a minute before starting their roll. He also mentions that these kinds of takeoffs with another plane on the 3-mile final are common at larger airports.

    • Clashing Images Productions
      Clashing Images Productions Ай бұрын

      From an ATP review this was on ATC and Fedex. ATC cleared SW onto a runway (they now have full control over that surface) but did so with traffic on a short final.
      However the real issue here is Fedex making an abort call for another aircraft.
      ATC thought it was Southwest calling that they were rejecting takeoff. Fedex almost caused a crash.

    • mquist
      mquist Ай бұрын +3

      I don't fly commercial but I don't love that view. Yes, pilots should be ready to go when they say they are, but they need to be comfortable taking a few extra seconds to check settings, confirm instructions with each other, etc. without feeling pressure. They don't need an eternity but there needs to be at least a small amount of margin for error and safety checks. Here, they got a series of instructions from Tower that needed to be recorded and verified. If ATC really wanted an immediate TO they could have told SWA that too by saying "without delay" which is code for "ILL LET YOU GO BUT YOU NEED TO GO ASAP NOW"...
      Even if you could fault SWA for not rolling out fast enough, which you can't, ATC had zero situational awareness. They didn't interject at all, they waited way too long to give fedex instructions turn, they basically f'd up and then just sat there and watched it happen hoping that it would all just work out. Really bad.

    • NightHawk787
      NightHawk787 Ай бұрын +1

      @Krozar TAL Here is the link to the video I was talking about, in case you want to see what I was referencing.
      kzclip.org/user/shorts53-tB79KvrE?feature=share

  • Sue Crane
    Sue Crane Ай бұрын

    I'm surprised that Philadelphia hasn't had an accident like this one that nearly occurred. Yrs ago while waiting for a connecting flight, I watched planes in mid runway taking off, with another plane landing rt behind them. Too close for comfort, if you ask me.

  • Hardy Family
    Hardy Family Ай бұрын +1

    Would be interesting to hear the FedEx CVR

  • Israel Aguasanta
    Israel Aguasanta Ай бұрын

    How calm those guys are

  • Tom’s Travels
    Tom’s Travels Ай бұрын +300

    Why? Why would you risk it? If I was ATC I'd get the Southwest to wait. If I was the Southwest pilot I'd let ATC know I'll wait until the Fedex has landed.

    • Falcon2
      Falcon2 Ай бұрын

      ​@Clashing Images Productions Flight sim doesn't count, bud. And the NTSB quote did not confine praise to one action. It was a general "they did a great job" comment. If they thought the abort call was unsafe, they wouldn't have been saying they did a great job. Simple as that, random Internet guy who claims to be an airline pilot. Since we're going in circles now, I'm out. *muted

    • Clashing Images Productions
      Clashing Images Productions Ай бұрын

      @Falcon2 This random second guesser is an airline pilot that would have been pissed that another aircraft made a call for someone else.
      The only thing they praised was the call fedex made to go around. Not them calling SW abort.

    • Falcon2
      Falcon2 Ай бұрын

      @Clashing Images Productions it doesn’t matter what ATC thought at that point. Both FedEx and SW knew what was happening thanks to FedEx awareness and initiative, and tragedy was averted. NTSB praised the FedEx pilots. You’re criticizing them. I’m going with NTSB over some random second-guesser on KZclip. Sorry 🤷🏼‍♂️

    • Clashing Images Productions
      Clashing Images Productions Ай бұрын

      @Falcon2 Thats why they should have only said Fedex going around. Then ATC would have given them early vectors to avoid the SW taking off. Instead they made a call for another aircraft.
      Not sure how this is hard to understand. ATC thought it was SW who said "Southwest Abort"... that is why ATC said "Southwest turn right when able". That means turn off the runway onto the nearest taxiway.

    • Falcon2
      Falcon2 Ай бұрын +1

      @Clashing Images Productions By the time FedEx called, they were already dangerously close. ATC was clearly unaware of what was going on.

  • Javier Caselli
    Javier Caselli Ай бұрын +5

    Even knowing beforehand that it all ended well, watching this was scary as f**k.

  • RULE 303
    RULE 303 Ай бұрын +14

    So let me get this straight. ATC clears take off with FedEx on a 3 mile final in foggy conditions. Crazy!

    • Geoff Kingman-Sugars
      Geoff Kingman-Sugars Ай бұрын +1

      From my ATC training, you can't line up another aircraft when you have issued a landing clearance to one on final. Remember what happened at RAAF Butterworth with the two Mirages!

  • JC
    JC Ай бұрын +1

    I noticed two go arounds out of approach last evening at AUS. I live nearby and I have personally seen/heard several go arounds and noticed them on FlightRadar24 in recent days and weeks. No aircraft ahead taking off or sitting in queue on the two go arounds last night. What's going on? Bad communication? Lax ATC? Lack of training?

  • hoytoy100
    hoytoy100 Ай бұрын +3

    Think tower expected an expedited departure from SWA, but he took his time. FedEx saw and heard what was happening and was all over it.

  • rslcgrad1004
    rslcgrad1004 Ай бұрын +2

    imagine the wake turbulence on take off the southwest pilots probably got on top of this whole situation. a heavy freighter flying right over you while rotating... then an act calling an abort at v2, then asks them to turn while probably 100 ft off the ground... hope we see an incident report on this one.

  • LowEarthOrbitPilot
    LowEarthOrbitPilot Ай бұрын +250

    That’s B.S.!
    With a heavy on a THREE mile final, nothing should have been cleared to take off, unless it was already on the piano keys, in position, and ready to go!

    • Justin Hink
      Justin Hink Ай бұрын

      @Nick Akers Lol no I am actually telling you the rule. It is called two increasing you three. clearly it was not applied correctly here but as long as southwest has started take off role the FDX can be two miles from the runway threshold as long as there will be 3 miles of separation within one minute after departure.

    • Geoff Kingman-Sugars
      Geoff Kingman-Sugars Ай бұрын

      @MoMadenU You obviously aren't a 'flying type' then.

    • Geoff Kingman-Sugars
      Geoff Kingman-Sugars Ай бұрын

      @rkan2 Really sloppy ATC in the States, obviously.

    • MoMadenU
      MoMadenU Ай бұрын

      @Jesse First time I've heard it described as piano keys and I love it 🤣

  • Dieselyeti
    Dieselyeti Ай бұрын

    Reminds me of the incident at PVD back in 1999. Thankfully one crew was paying attention and kept their SA.

  • sturmovik
    sturmovik Ай бұрын +12

    Not that it's particularly relevant, but Fedex 1432 was coming from Memphis (no surprise) and Southwest 708 was going to Cancun. Also, on top of everything else this happened at around 6:40 AM so still at least partial darkness.

  • Mos Inc
    Mos Inc Ай бұрын +2

    That FedEx pilot needs a movie. Holy crap what great flying by him

    • Henry Cervantezzz
      Henry Cervantezzz Ай бұрын

      The first officer was the pilot on the radios. Both are pilots and both did awesome work.

  • Tim P
    Tim P Ай бұрын +1

    In conditions like that the margins need to be wider. SWA can really be given an immediate take off. Crew workload is high. Controller had a shocker here and fair chance of dismissal I'd think.

  • Drew Barker
    Drew Barker Ай бұрын +6

    That controller is up for a vacation after that. absolutely ZERO reason to launch that 737 in front of a heavy on 3mile in bad weather to boot. holy cow. props to fedex for realizing the issue and staying high.

  • Fiavi Y.
    Fiavi Y. Ай бұрын +21

    This incident worth a formal investigation.

  • P S
    P S Ай бұрын +5

    The controller was completely happy with that but that would be his last day under normal procedures.

  • SwissFlight_Simmer
    SwissFlight_Simmer Ай бұрын

    Vero close call ! I don’t the procedure there but usually with LVP the separations are wider and 3nm looks very short. Think just about the time taken by southwest to line up due to limited visibility, isn’t as usual. Hopefully nobody’s hurt.

  • M167A1
    M167A1 Ай бұрын +1

    You could tell from his voice the controller realized what had almost happened...

  • pilotrobroy
    pilotrobroy Ай бұрын +2

    Normally Southwest is already halfway to 80 knots as they read back their clearance, but with the low visibility they were justified in not rushing the takeoff. Did the call to abort happen above or below V1?

  • erika p
    erika p Ай бұрын +2

    I don’t know anything about aviation but when I saw this on the news I was shocked! I’m sorry but I hope the air traffic controller has been yanked off the job. That is so scary. Thankful the FedEx pilot took control of the situation.

  • Ryan Chen
    Ryan Chen Ай бұрын +66

    Austin just had a historic ice storm a couple days before this which cancelled or delayed a large number of flights. I wonder if that and the resulting backlog played into the ATCs practice here.

    • Distant Light
      Distant Light Ай бұрын +1

      Good observation.

    • 12B
      12B Ай бұрын +4

      @Dave Stephens having task saturation is not an excuse. He needs to be trained to handle higher flows better.

  • Liberator 58
    Liberator 58 Ай бұрын

    I’ve been told to wait for 5 mile final for a 172. 3 miles in a cargo jet is ridiculously close

  • Peter Pape
    Peter Pape Ай бұрын +2

    As an aspiring controller, the phrase "no delay" should've been included. Given a 767 can cover 3 miles in about 45 seconds, there is absolutely no reason to be issuing a takeoff clearance... especially given the increased safety risks of not having visibility. Cessna 3 mile final? That's a totally different story.

  • Miky Schuster
    Miky Schuster Ай бұрын +1

    I hope there is a investigation on its way. That was way to close.

  • Mike Ryan
    Mike Ryan Ай бұрын

    Seems like this is happening more and more lately

  • Jeroen Heijmans
    Jeroen Heijmans Ай бұрын +60

    What happens with ATC after this? I guess they make a log just like when a pilot needs to call the tower after the pilots make a mistake.
    Will the ATC be relieved for a while to catch some breath and walktrough what happened?
    Does the ATC go to the pilot and buy them a cup of coffee and talk about it to clear the air and apologize?

    • Yussso
      Yussso Ай бұрын

      How long does this kind of incident usually be investigated by the NTSB? Interesting to know the verdict on the ATC.

    • kenito1967
      kenito1967 Ай бұрын

      @Gummy worm .... SW disciplined.... ha ha. Goes against their "get there early or else mentality".

    • Ler0x Borkinf00n
      Ler0x Borkinf00n Ай бұрын +5

      @freakfly23 I think "desertification" is slamming the aircraft onto the desert?

    • confuseatronica
      confuseatronica Ай бұрын +13

      @Joe Troyner or maybe he gets transferred to a new tower and its just a sand strip in the middle of a desert :P

  • Dawn Welch
    Dawn Welch Ай бұрын +1

    I am not even a pilot of any kind (I love listening and learning, though!) and even I know what happened here was incredibly dangerous! Can/will the ATC get in trouble for this one?

  • J T
    J T Ай бұрын +1

    Situations like this and when aircraft cross the runway when there are landings and takeoffs taking place are what scare me about flying.

  • Chris Kaschok
    Chris Kaschok Ай бұрын +1

    Amazing how calm the pilots are... I'd have shit my pants.

  • garthcox4
    garthcox4 Ай бұрын +2

    The footage shown elsewhere implied that the southwest plane was below v1 when asked to abort (74 mph). The enquiry will get to the bottom of it but if correct it won't just be the controller at fault potentially.