As a former zoologist/ecologist and now science teacher (and psychology hobbyist), this discussion on primate behaviour was extremely interesting and though provoking, what a match up!
1% difference aye? Eyes different, brains are FAR DIFFERENT, every single appendage is different in stature, they have different bone structures than we do, they're designed for slightly different diets than us, we can't eat tree bark! You have to be insane to claim there is a 1% genetic difference, yet a 99% intellectual difference. That's a laugh. Their hair develops differently than ours, their pigmentation is different than ours, skin is different than ours [even if it's the same material genetics determine each and every factor.] I'd seriously like to know, who has verified this 1% theory and when was it last updated. 💯🤡😅
Ya I liked it too. I also find that gorilla for example and primates have guts. Lots of guts. That gut supply them with awesome physical ability and that body demands more energy than the brain so their guts are pretty much still in charge heirchy wise. Where as the human arch nerve has developed is to have high energy consumption and the gut while smaller wants for different fuels to sustain itself and that sets us on different paths entirely to meet that demand so our development has very different results. Even when all else is very similar. It boils down to the gut.
Aside from the stunning things I learned about the topic, JP has once again astounded me with how he approaches a topic and how he comes to his positions. It’s like the world is one big magic show & I’m expected to sit in the audience, accept at face value the tricks I see on the stage, and not question things. JP takes me backstage, shows me the props and how they work, then backs it up by pointing out exactly how the “magician” uses those props to perform the trick. I can see why so many consider him a danger- they don’t want their tricks revealed. Bless you Jordan, the world needs you!
Jordan, you are the only person, on KZclip and every other social media platform, that I find myself preparing to listen to. What I mean is that all the talking heads are so easy to listen to and to understand that usually what they say goes in one ear and out the other. But when I listen to you speak, I need to be in a comfortable and quiet setting so that I can listen to every word you say. And the reason is because what you are saying is so profound and so necessary that I want to learn as much as I can. Often times I rewatch the same talks so that in case I didn’t fully understand something you said, I can digest it properly. Thanks for what you do, sir. I, like many other people in the world, appreciate what you are doing. I see what you are doing and I applaud you. I wish you and your family the very best, sir.
Great episode Jordan! The quality of your interview subjects is second to none! I've been listening to you and reading your books for over 5 years now and you never ever disappoint. Please keep up the wonderful work, you will only grow in popularity exponentially and the critics don't matter because they don't even listen to what you actually say. We love you buddy. Edit: this was an amazing podcast. who knew such a perfect combo would be a clinical psychologist genius and a geniuis level primatologist. what a damn pleasure we have being able to hear this conversation. I love these longform talks 😁
To everyone reading this, I have a real quick, important question to ask you. Has anyone ever told you that God loves you and has a great plan for your life? And, if you were to die right now, do you know for a fact that you would go to Heaven? I want to tell you that the Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, and, that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, and I want to tell you that you can make that decision today, to turn from sin and turn to Christ. If you would like to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, pray this prayer from your heart out loud to God. "Heavenly Father, I repent of sin. I receive forgiveness. I receive Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ is Lord, and my Savior. Come into my heart right now. I thank you for dying for me. By the blood of Jesus, right now, I am saved. In Jesus' name, Amen."
Jordan, you are the one person I enjoy and look forward to hearing. As a homeschooling mom, I get very little time to myself. I usually listen to you while I’m cooking dinner (if my kids aren’t helping me and my husband isn’t telling me about his day at work!) I truly look forward to spending my “me time” listening to your interviews. I appreciate you and the people you interview! Please don’t ever stop! Prayers to you and your family to always be strong in the tough times you face speaking truth and seeking truth!
That was a brilliant conversation! One of the best on the podcast as far as I'm concerned. Can we have more of those, please? I will definitely read his books, I'm not a biologist, but the topic is fascinating.
1% difference aye? Eyes different, brains are FAR DIFFERENT, every single appendage is different in stature, they have different bone structures than we do, they're designed for slightly different diets than us, we can't eat tree bark! You have to be insane to claim there is a 1% genetic difference, yet a 99% intellectual difference. That's a laugh. Their hair develops differently than ours, their pigmentation is different than ours, skin is different than ours [even if it's the same material genetics determine each and every factor.] I'd seriously like to know, who has verified this 1% theory and when was it last updated. 💯🤡😅
@Johnny Salter Have you paid attention to what they are saying or what Peterson has talked about in the past? 5% of males are extremely aggressive as children but mostly can be socialized out of it by age 4. So think about that a bit when you see videos of parents encouraging their 3 year olds to fight. And they are out there!
This is JBP at his best: having a great conversation with another brilliant mind without hijacking the conversation to talk about the articulated corollary meanings of Beauty and the Beast and chimps.
@fatrotry If you listen to Dr Wrangham on Lex Fridman podcast he seems to have an outdated view that women aren't malicious and getting rid of men would lead to Shangri-La...most psychology has proven psychopathy is nearly as prevalent in women than men it just manifests differently due to culture and how little we understand the dark side of man and woman.
I just finished Prof. Richard Wrangham’s “The Goodness Paradox”. It’s a wonderfully illuminating book that puts into perspective the human condition as understood through the lens of evolution. Thank you, again, Prof. Peterson for interviewing another brilliant guest and helping me add to my growing catalogue of books!
I am extremely pleased with the interviewer in this video. He asks exactly the question I would have liked to ask the expert and he is extremely well prepared.
Yeah, but he's gotten so bitter and mean since his medical emergency. I can't really blame him for it since he's been through a lot, but he's different now. It's hard to see him the same way. Whereas before I just saw him as someone whose primary mission in life was to help people help themselves, now it definitely seems like politics have taken precedence over his self-help material. Pretty sad, actually.
What a wonderful interview. I've always enjoyed anthropology and the study of social systems. I truly enjoy your interviews mostly because you're not only highly intelligent but know a great deal about the subjects talked about. Thank you again.
Jordan, I like that after your recovery your pace has slowed just slightly. It's a positive not a negative. It was so hard to keep up 100% with your thoughts before, now you are a little more relaxed and tend to take your time. Resulting in more effective communication in the first pass. What a great interview. Riveting for an hour and 45min. Amazing. Love you, Brother.
♥It is a shame that over four years I found only 17 podcasters who are focused on the truth. Another super-interesting podcast Jordan. You bring on more informative guests, telling the truth, than any other. Each podcast makes me ever-more appreciative. I have learned a lot from you these past four years as I watch every podcast at least once and most multiple times. Your messages have changed my life for the better. Jordan, are asolutely a national treasure. This latest attack on you by your corrupt so-called piers is actually a beautiful thing because the more these idiots attack you the more popular you get. They really are struck-on-stuped but It's like free-advertising for you. As any farmer would say - Keep the chin up. LOL Byron Starr, Engineer, Truth-seeker. aka Pop* Vancouver BC
@Sarah Robertson lovely response😁 Just checked with my wife (just like me pensioned and former medical specialist) and the answer is NO: no projecting. BTW: she and I are together since 1968, having 3 kids (with grandchildren AND good social careers), two of them are girls/women with university degrees and fitting jobs. And: they are also doing fine as are their husbands. The tasks such as cooking in our house is equally divided between ourselves.
The best conversation I have EVER listened to and the best 1 hour 45 minutes when I've learned so much about human instinct, eating habits, evolution....
Fascinating conversation and Mr Wragham's book The Goodness Paradox is a brilliant piece of work..! Maybe someone already answered already to Jordan's question about this Japanese film of which he forgot the name, as this episode was already already released in September 2021, but for them who just saw this now, like me: it was certainly the Japanese film "the Balad of Narayama". A must-see-movie for those who are interested in anthropology and questions on human behaviour.
Enlightening and thought provoking discussions. Now I have a yardstick to measure human societies from its beginning. Thanks for the great effort and keep up the good work. From Hker worldwide
That was fascinating. Thank you both for having this discussion and allowing me to listen to it. Now, off to the library to get copies of Prof Wrangham's books!
It's beautiful to find such an eloquent dialogue between two brilliant minds and see how knowledge grows with shared experience. Nutrition for the spirit.
Sorry to have to comment so late but what a fascinating and informative intellectual engagement; both from the penetrating questions asked and the cautious and studied answers. Ever enlighteninig.Jordan's question of how many killings it takes......was a gold question.
The 1974 - 1978 Gombe war. They developed warfare with some characteristics almost identical to how humans would conduct strategy and battle. It was what Jane Goodall was shocked by to learn about their aggressive, warlike behavior.
This was an exceedingly fascinating talk/interview! I think I developed another synapse extension or two. I look forward to hearing from this man again and will definitely read the books. Dr. Peterson, your interview skills have become well-defined and it's a joy to tune in to these podcasts. Thank you.
@RenneDanjoule people don’t understand what the 1% difference means (I thought it was closer to 3 or 4% difference). The two genomes are lined up and it’s only those parts that match that are compared. It’s only the genes we share that are looked at for variation. Genes we don’t share aren’t considered. Also I don’t think the technique allows the consideration of genes that compare but in some cases aren’t operating. Many genes are inoperative or turned down. Many human genes differ from similar chimp genes on this account and is responsible for some of humans « infantilised facial features » compared to chimps. As most genes code for basic cellular processes it’s not surprising that we share a lot. I think we’re about 10% different from cats, etc. But the small quantitative difference in dna can make for huge behavioural differences.
Why did JP closed the discussion when an anthropologic proof of male dominance over woman by dictating the moral code was given ?? I was expecting some kind of comment.
Such a good interview! Your style puts me at ease listening, and seems to have a profound affect on your interactions with Dr. Wrangman. Amazing content Dr. Peterson, unbelievably sincere. Thank you.
What a great interlocution, and what a fascinating subject. Thank you to both. The books will make for interesting reading. Regarding humankind, and our current behaviours, I find that given the right opportunity either by status, peer pressure or greed we do not hesitate to go back to our “original form”. Wars between “neighbouring groups” as they are happening now in our time frame explain this very well. That would be a great debatable subject…Men kill men that have interfered with their families…Are we all capable of this? Are we just a time bomb waiting to explode given the right set of circumstances?... And all our children are at risk from groups of marauding predators, I am sure that most fathers would not hesitate to take action against such a vile and infamous sick animal.
1:18:18 One of the things interesting to note about most Native American Tribes, no matter what name they were known as to others, their own name for their tribe was normally translated as _The People,_ or _The Human Beings,_ ALL Other tribes were _Others._
The Japanese movie Jordan Peterson mentioned was "The Ballad of Narayama" and it really is hard-hitting. It's notable that - in modern society at least - communication is considered more the realm of women, who in a way "weave the fabric if society" through their interactions. I think the possible (albeit less visible) role of the females of the species in this far-reaching chang of the social structure of our species should not be entirely overlooked - as it has been by the esteemed professor(s).
Now I'm scrolling thru looking for the first "I'm offended " comment but to my surprise everybody is instead just having a discussion. I'm in unfamiliar territory 😶
"Chatter" imparts invaluable social information. And per usual, another male mistakes domination of a given area, or even imitation as it genesis. For instance, you can see agriculture as a male innovation...look at recorded human history and there's little there to suggest otherwise, but contrary wise accept the premise of "man the hunter" and "woman the gatherer" and completely ignore the probability that women first noticed the foodstuffs they were familiar with sprouted from seeds ingested & evacuated, then deciding to just dump seeds on soil closer to their home homebase (s) to save themselves tedious and dangerous trudging. Let's look at medicine, animal husbandry (gee whiz, why do the oldest domesticated animal have human-like faces in their infancy!?) Given that males are now females, it seems these takeovers are neverending. You'll do it better, of course.
Anthropologists tend to concentrate on the male input to society because, first of all, until fairly recently they were mainly men, and secondly because the artefacts left by early mankind and hominids were stone. Great stuff, Stone, long lasting. Unlike what the female input was, which would have involved food gathering, as in the actual plucking or digging up of fruits and roots and harvesting wild grains, necessitating some kind of means to hold the produce. Thus hollow gourds or similar to carry water, grains, eggs; making of twine from plant fibre, useful for tying bundles of wood together for ease of transport, leading to making nets for fishing or catching birds, or snares to catch small game; leading to weaving baskets then fabric for clothing. This, I’d suggest, had more to do with the making of society and civilisation than hunting down wildebeest or mammoths. Unfortunately, all those things are biodegradable and so there’s little to no trace left of them, we can only infer they must have occurred. Just as we infer that cave paintings were for “religious” purposes, ignoring the possibility that maybe they had to do with instructing the up and coming hunters about the various animals they’d be hunting, or more frivolously just decorations because the ice age winter nights were long and cave walls are sooo boring!
I like the fact that Jordan asked Richard about his period spend in Africa when he was 17. It probably would have just been overlooked by other interviewers but it showed so much about Richard as a young man - very revealing about his development. Loved about the tail pulling on the elephant !
Robert Ardrey wrote a trilogy of books on human evolution. In addition to _African Genesis_ and _The Territorial Imperative_ , he also wrote _The Social Contract._ . Ardrey was an excellent writer and his books are still well worth reading even with the passage of a half century.
I think it would make a strong argument that people who lived in volcanic regions where there was 'hot rocks' around. In the Canaries they dig out a hallow in the earth to access the natural heat and make makeshift ovens to cook food. This alongside the added advantage of fertile soil in volcanic areas to grow crops could have made it easy for mankind to find out the advantages gained by cooking both meat and vegetables. The difficult bit was how to make hot rocks in regions where there was no natural fire sources.
I remember reading about Jane Goodall, watching television documentaries about her and her work, reading articles she'd written, and attending one of her lectures. She definitely knew that chimp warfare would be explosive news, she was accused of making it up, and the skepticism and disbelief didn't really die out until other researchers documented the same behavior. Until others found the same behavior, there was also a lot of conjecture that the troop she was observing were somehow aberrant, unique; even that her watching them had somehow disturbed the troop, caused them such anxiety, etc., that she was causing the violence.
@Lynx South this sound like scholars who claim an arceologist faked/ misinterpreted his findings in Minoans temple as human sacrifice,when not only it's common things in the area and age,but also get recorded in myth where Athens have to send children of Noble as offering,a pattern that echo the bibilical record of sacrificing sons as both would hold role of heir
Jordan is my most recent hero for analyzing social issues (from an altruistic perspective) and is brave enough to challenge established (but not necessarily beneficial) dogma
I absolutely loved this. And I really love seeing the guests face light up when Jordan shows real interest in their field of study, like knowing how they used to study genetic differences by literally pulling DNA apart. Must be such a relief for the guest knowing they aren't having to start from the ground up
Yes, I liked that part too. It shows them they are talking to someone who is not only listening but who can also understand, even if using intellectual imagination, what they’re doing.
@Baby Cheesus keeping everyone anonymous reduces stress and allows people to ask questions they feel like they could be ridiculed for, as long as the chat is between reasonable people I find it hard to see a downside that couldn't be solved by separate non-anonymous chats
My degree and interest in biology aid in my ability to digest and appreciate this kind of discussion where inquiry and discussion can be interesting to digest in terms of the real world.
One of the best interviews I’ve listened to on this podcast so far.I thought I knew something about chimpanzees but I realize that I really didn’t know much at all. I love to watch chimpanzees at the zoo. Now that I have more knowledge my overall experience will be deeper and more rewarding. Thank you
one of my favorite interviews. I dont mind the more recent ones that are heavily involved in politics and religion, but its nice to take a break from that every now and than.
I made sure I watched with as much attention as I can muster. When my attention did not hold as long then I made sure to go back and watch it over again. It helps my understanding and that is a such help I appreciate so much. Thank you for sharing your work
The Japanese film mentioned is "The Ballad of Narayama" and exists in two versions. The original film of 1958 and a second version (not a remake) produced in 1968. The latter version is available on Apple TV and a few other streaming services.
Wow!! I just learned so much and highly highly recommend you watch this video. This has been a life-changing experience for me. It really doesn't get better than this.
Very cool theories, will definitely be reading the books, thank you! Maybe language also helped curb reactive aggression in humans? People can argue yell and persuade each other and ultimately create more chances to de-escalate. I wonder how much more violent a group of language-less humans would be even today.
@Ben Ji more language gives more opportunities for misunderstanding which counterintuitively perhaps may lead to more violence or at least increased scope for more violence not less but this is just a thought to ponder.
@Ben Ji could be but my guess is no language doesn't increase or decrease likelihood of violence between members of the same domesticated species. I think this because I can think of more animals that do not display strong levels of violence between members without language within the species for example domesticated pussy-cats.
@Ben Jithat is very interesting. My immediate thought after reading this was that might be the case but also I could see the development of different languages as a catalyst towards more tribalistic tendencies, ie us vs them. A very strong persistent instinct even in us modern day human beings. I can’t understand you, therefore we are not the same/equal etc. language would make those differences even more distinct. 🤔 Great question !!
Former Associate Prof. here in Japan (undergrad biology UNC-W, grad school - Education Temple University Japan) watching this great show. I am a big fan of primatologist Frans de Waal too - who posits the roots of human morality as in the empathy and reciprocity of some social animals. I put those two variables at different levels of abstraction, and have redefined human morality for myself as simply 'empathy driven behavior'. Rule driven behavior (that of customs, traditions, laws, algorithms , etc.) is a necessary neural re-routing of direct empathy when we exceed Dunbar's number. I was intrigued by the conversation enough to have bought the Kindle version of Wrangham's first book, and suspect that in-group, out-group violence is a legitimate counter argument to parallel economies at the community level proposed to counter to the recent rise in concentrations of political/economic power at the expense of individual rights. I am literate enough in history to be aware of Unit 731 and Howard Zinn ... and Dunbar's number alone can not account for the human-created horror. By the way, the 1980's Japanese movie ... 'The Ballad of Narayama', where people who reach the age of 70 are taken to the mountain top to die. This year, 2022 at the Cannes Film Festival, Japanese director Chie Hayakawa is revisiting the theme of encouraged suicide of the elderly, but at the age of 75. Though I've lived here in Japan for the last 40 years, I'll be 67 this September. That gives me eight more at the most. ;-)
@michael s Hi Michaels. Thanks for an alternative idea, and for the implicit acknowledgement that this topic is important in these times of 'wokeness'. Frans de Waal puts reciprocity on an equal footing with empathy, so he might agree with you. But in thinking about it, I am wondering about two things ... 1) - this might involve more complex thinking such as first identifying, then comparing and contrasting, then calculating in comparison with others in the group, then considering strategies for control, and ... 2) - whereas mirror neurons might account from immediate empathy, I'm wondering what morphological feature might be most highly correlated with the above functions. Cheers from Japan! steve
I don't think empathy is the primary driver of morality. I think the primary driver is the need to control free riders of various kinds, individuals who seek to benefit themselves at the expense of other group members.
1:36:00 I suspect this has already been mentioned but I believe the movie in question is The Ballad of Narayama. I haven't watched the whole thing but I'm familiar with the part about disposing of old people on the mountain. It's really quite shocking.
This was good. You listened and let your guest speak. Perhaps because this is a subject you're not versed in. Great job, keep this style up with interviewing guests!
I wanted to hear the answer to this question; how do you prioritize the similarities versus the differences and how do you decide when you can draw conclusions that are more universal rather than local to that particular species? This is the kind of stuff we grapple with all the time.
Language development aided our evolution but this documentary leaves me Speechless! Incredibly informative. Thanks to both gentlemen. I'm editing to add that this is the best documentary I have ever watched. I'm one of these evolved (¿) west of Ireland tribes.
Very enlightening conversation. This kind conversations help curious generalists like myself to understand evolution of human values over time without having to read lengthy multiple books. Thanks to both Dr Peterson and the professor Wrangham for brining it to us.
Very interesting and I can see how it relates to our primordial instincts as humans... however, we humans are not apes..... we might physically be much weaker, but what made us humans top of the food chain is the combination of brain power and tool making to do the fighting for us. A pack of lions can have all the muscles and physical strength in the world but it won't last 5 seconds against someone with an AK47 that just shoots it to bits, the lions will just be slaughtered like sheep; cannon fodder; which our cousins in the animal kingdom lack... which is why I think what the west does is extremely stupid with the strength of atom bombs we have today... like what is the US gonna do... watch out over the waste lands of their entire cities turned to dust by Russia's nukes and say 'I know it looks bad, but you should see the other guy.'.... Like the politicians of today have NO CLUE what the atom bomb did for horrors to Hiroshima and Nagasaki; and those are child's play toys compared to today's hydrogen bombs.... on top of that, the west can certainly start a war, but I'm pretty certain they can't win a war; particularly as Russia, China and the Middle East join forces as the west has been pushing for, for the last 2 decades.
Out of all the Deciplans required to map the Origins and Development of Homosapiens. I'm to believe that we came out of Aferica and migrated to an exstreme cold clmate. I've definitely got too do some serious research on this issue.
There is so much information here to digest where does one begin? It's a humbling and sobering insight into power dynamics, social cohesion, biology, species sexual behaviour and so much more. Very insightful and profound.
Dear Jordon Peterson, would love to hear a show on your thoughts on the teacher Barry Smith who predicted all the things that are happening now. He was telling everyone what is happening now was coming back in the 90’s.
Excellent interview. I learned quite a bit. The last part about the differences in aggression related to brain size, and the domestication of humans relating to lack of alphas, was especially enlightening.
@Amon noma consider how territorial invasions must have domesticated us as well, probably most aggressive males would mobilize to fight an invading army/group. I wonder if male populations twenty thousand years ago were substantially more aggressive or uncooperative.
@godsmoker 1.0 gagarot Maybe the external influence in this " domestication" (which is a weird way of expressing it I agree) is human population size mixed with a complete change in human life style. It wasn't that long ago we lived as hunter gathers, sometimes not seeing other humans for months at a time. That tribal nature in humans came from this time. Now suddenly we live in cities of millions, and this tribal nature is incompatible for this environment. Humanity it seems is under going some sort of transformation to something that is more suitable to a densely populated species, and we are in the early turbulent stage of the transformation. Things will probably be completely unrecognizable from our point of view in a few generations. I'm no expert but it seems that way to me.
In a moderately tangential vein, given which of aggression or affiliation requires more cultural fostering, one should note that the implementations of Rousseau-esque ideologies have resulted in mass-murder with far greater frequency and severity than implementations of Hobbes' ideologies. I suspect this might have to do with the fact that acts of violence often have catastrophic and terminal consequences, while acts of kindness need to become habitual, if they are not to be undone by relatively few acts of violence. Even if both impulses are equally innate in us, as a numbers game, it requires few acts of violence to ruin a society that otherwise frequently manifests kindness, and this requires us to pay special attention to our aggressive impulses when we are talking about how our societies are formed. Utopian schemes based on Rousseau, Marx, et al. set up unrealistic expectations and set us up for bitter disappointments that trigger aggressive, "Off with their heads!" impulses. It only takes one act of violence to kill someone and undo a life of thousands of kind acts, so kindness isn't something to be taken for granted.
An amazing book about Aggression in animal behavior and by extension sheds incite into human aggression is a book by Konrad Lorenz called, “On Agression”. It’s one of my favorite books ever. Just thought I would suggest it
I found this a very interesting conversation talking about human and ape behaviour. I'm always interested in the history of humans and how we have evolved from apes. This is why I listen to KZclip much more than terrestrial TV these days.
Ah I love how Dr. Peterson is always so genuinely welcoming towards his podguests! One can really tell that they feel truly appreciated. Always puts a natural smile on my face when they wrap up :)
The depth of the exchange that takes place within a mere 90 minutes is enough to create a state of "agglutination" of one's desire to stay and stay and stay in the circle of the conversation and actually remain engrossed in it in the aftermath of its ending. I guess this wondrously addictive approach to listening and pondering is what learning is all about. Oh, that I were young again to take advantage of this discovery. Thank you Jordan and Richard for creating these moments of wonder and beauty.
I totally enjoyed this discussion and was pleasantly surprised how these two scholars did not toss the names of various Universities around as merit badges or ribbon sashes from Her Majesty, as too many of his guests have done.
As a former zoologist/ecologist and now science teacher (and psychology hobbyist), this discussion on primate behaviour was extremely interesting and though provoking, what a match up!
You must be awesome at zoology. Not.
@Devin Norsworthy Good man yourself , pure bull the lot of it .
B S You mean .
1% difference aye? Eyes different, brains are FAR DIFFERENT, every single appendage is different in stature, they have different bone structures than we do, they're designed for slightly different diets than us, we can't eat tree bark! You have to be insane to claim there is a 1% genetic difference, yet a 99% intellectual difference. That's a laugh.
Their hair develops differently than ours, their pigmentation is different than ours, skin is different than ours [even if it's the same material genetics determine each and every factor.] I'd seriously like to know, who has verified this 1% theory and when was it last updated. 💯🤡😅
Ya I liked it too. I also find that gorilla for example and primates have guts. Lots of guts. That gut supply them with awesome physical ability and that body demands more energy than the brain so their guts are pretty much still in charge heirchy wise. Where as the human arch nerve has developed is to have high energy consumption and the gut while smaller wants for different fuels to sustain itself and that sets us on different paths entirely to meet that demand so our development has very different results. Even when all else is very similar. It boils down to the gut.
Aside from the stunning things I learned about the topic, JP has once again astounded me with how he approaches a topic and how he comes to his positions. It’s like the world is one big magic show & I’m expected to sit in the audience, accept at face value the tricks I see on the stage, and not question things. JP takes me backstage, shows me the props and how they work, then backs it up by pointing out exactly how the “magician” uses those props to perform the trick. I can see why so many consider him a danger- they don’t want their tricks revealed. Bless you Jordan, the world needs you!
Wrangham was great but Peterson was a pain in the ass. An interviewer who interrupted and talked too much making his own speeches.
Kinda answers the question about what happened to the Neanderthal population of Europe eh???
Jordan, you are the only person, on KZclip and every other social media platform, that I find myself preparing to listen to. What I mean is that all the talking heads are so easy to listen to and to understand that usually what they say goes in one ear and out the other. But when I listen to you speak, I need to be in a comfortable and quiet setting so that I can listen to every word you say. And the reason is because what you are saying is so profound and so necessary that I want to learn as much as I can. Often times I rewatch the same talks so that in case I didn’t fully understand something you said, I can digest it properly. Thanks for what you do, sir. I, like many other people in the world, appreciate what you are doing. I see what you are doing and I applaud you. I wish you and your family the very best, sir.
I also think he asks great questions AND allows his guests to speak.
We're the clever naked apes! Not always wise, but endlessly curious and capable.
P
Great episode Jordan! The quality of your interview subjects is second to none! I've been listening to you and reading your books for over 5 years now and you never ever disappoint. Please keep up the wonderful work, you will only grow in popularity exponentially and the critics don't matter because they don't even listen to what you actually say. We love you buddy.
Edit: this was an amazing podcast. who knew such a perfect combo would be a clinical psychologist genius and a geniuis level primatologist. what a damn pleasure we have being able to hear this conversation. I love these longform talks 😁
To everyone reading this, I have a real quick, important question to ask you. Has anyone ever told you that God loves you and has a great plan for your life? And, if you were to die right now, do you know for a fact that you would go to Heaven? I want to tell you that the Bible says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and that the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, and, that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, and I want to tell you that you can make that decision today, to turn from sin and turn to Christ. If you would like to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, pray this prayer from your heart out loud to God. "Heavenly Father, I repent of sin. I receive forgiveness. I receive Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ is Lord, and my Savior. Come into my heart right now. I thank you for dying for me. By the blood of Jesus, right now, I am saved. In Jesus' name, Amen."
It's inspiring that we have this kind of quality content on the internet for free.
advertising isnt free
Not free. The price is that they sell you to their advertisers. No such thing as a free lunch.
Jordan, you are the one person I enjoy and look forward to hearing. As a homeschooling mom, I get very little time to myself. I usually listen to you while I’m cooking dinner (if my kids aren’t helping me and my husband isn’t telling me about his day at work!) I truly look forward to spending my “me time” listening to your interviews. I appreciate you and the people you interview! Please don’t ever stop! Prayers to you and your family to always be strong in the tough times you face speaking truth and seeking truth!
That was a brilliant conversation! One of the best on the podcast as far as I'm concerned. Can we have more of those, please? I will definitely read his books, I'm not a biologist, but the topic is fascinating.
1% difference aye? Eyes different, brains are FAR DIFFERENT, every single appendage is different in stature, they have different bone structures than we do, they're designed for slightly different diets than us, we can't eat tree bark! You have to be insane to claim there is a 1% genetic difference, yet a 99% intellectual difference. That's a laugh.
Their hair develops differently than ours, their pigmentation is different than ours, skin is different than ours [even if it's the same material genetics determine each and every factor.] I'd seriously like to know, who has verified this 1% theory and when was it last updated. 💯🤡😅
@Johnny Salter Have you paid attention to what they are saying or what Peterson has talked about in the past? 5% of males are extremely aggressive as children but mostly can be socialized out of it by age 4. So think about that a bit when you see videos of parents encouraging their 3 year olds to fight. And they are out there!
This is JBP at his best: having a great conversation with another brilliant mind without hijacking the conversation to talk about the articulated corollary meanings of Beauty and the Beast and chimps.
@fatrotry If you listen to Dr Wrangham on Lex Fridman podcast he seems to have an outdated view that women aren't malicious and getting rid of men would lead to Shangri-La...most psychology has proven psychopathy is nearly as prevalent in women than men it just manifests differently due to culture and how little we understand the dark side of man and woman.
I just finished Prof. Richard Wrangham’s “The Goodness Paradox”. It’s a wonderfully illuminating book that puts into perspective the human condition as understood through the lens of evolution. Thank you, again, Prof. Peterson for interviewing another brilliant guest and helping me add to my growing catalogue of books!
I am extremely pleased with the interviewer in this video. He asks exactly the question I would have liked to ask the expert and he is extremely well prepared.
Listening to Jordan is always emotional for me, his intellect and perceptions leave me in awe.
What an amazing mind to look up to, and learn from.
Yeah, but he's gotten so bitter and mean since his medical emergency. I can't really blame him for it since he's been through a lot, but he's different now. It's hard to see him the same way.
Whereas before I just saw him as someone whose primary mission in life was to help people help themselves, now it definitely seems like politics have taken precedence over his self-help material.
Pretty sad, actually.
💚
Highly instructive. Evocative, thought provoking, especially if you are a historian. Absolute must.
What a wonderful interview. I've always enjoyed anthropology and the study of social systems. I truly enjoy your interviews mostly because you're not only highly intelligent but know a great deal about the subjects talked about. Thank you again.
Jordan, I like that after your recovery your pace has slowed just slightly. It's a positive not a negative. It was so hard to keep up 100% with your thoughts before, now you are a little more relaxed and tend to take your time. Resulting in more effective communication in the first pass. What a great interview. Riveting for an hour and 45min. Amazing.
Love you, Brother.
Jordan Peterson is awesome!
Helps to have caught up some when he took a break .
Agreed
This is actually a video shot when he was barely healthy
♥It is a shame that over four years I found only 17 podcasters who are focused on the truth. Another super-interesting podcast Jordan. You bring on more informative guests, telling the truth, than any other. Each podcast makes me ever-more appreciative. I have learned a lot from you these past four years as I watch every podcast at least once and most multiple times. Your messages have changed my life for the better. Jordan, are asolutely a national treasure. This latest attack on you by your corrupt so-called piers is actually a beautiful thing because the more these idiots attack you the more popular you get. They really are struck-on-stuped but It's like free-advertising for you. As any farmer would say - Keep the chin up. LOL Byron Starr, Engineer, Truth-seeker. aka Pop* Vancouver BC
@Sarah Robertson lovely response😁 Just checked with my wife (just like me pensioned and former medical specialist) and the answer is NO: no projecting.
BTW: she and I are together since 1968, having 3 kids (with grandchildren AND good social careers), two of them are girls/women with university degrees and fitting jobs. And: they are also doing fine as are their husbands. The tasks such as cooking in our house is equally divided between ourselves.
@grewdpastor You're projecting, sugar bean.
@Sarah Robertson very slective hearing you have😂
The best conversation I have EVER listened to and the best 1 hour 45 minutes when I've learned so much about human instinct, eating habits, evolution....
Define ‘woke’ .
@Rod Well, it's clear that women doing the cooking freed men up to do all kinds of things. That's one thing that the woke environment would point out.
@Ben wonder how many of these themes would be welcome in a woke environment…
Fascinating conversation and Mr Wragham's book The Goodness Paradox is a brilliant piece of work..! Maybe someone already answered already to Jordan's question about this Japanese film of which he forgot the name, as this episode was already already released in September 2021, but for them who just saw this now, like me: it was certainly the Japanese film "the Balad of Narayama". A must-see-movie for those who are interested in anthropology and questions on human behaviour.
Ty - I've been scrolling thru the countless I ❤JP comments in hopes that someone commented on the Japanese movie. Ty
Enlightening and thought provoking discussions. Now I have a yardstick to measure human societies from its beginning.
Thanks for the great effort and keep up the good work.
From Hker worldwide
HK here bro!
That was fascinating. Thank you both for having this discussion and allowing me to listen to it. Now, off to the library to get copies of Prof Wrangham's books!
What a fascinating chat. Thanks Dr. Peterson to give us the chance to learn so much about various disciplines and subjects.
When you caught them stealing by using satan as bait and they came to the conclusion that Jesus is a much bigger threat😆
If you haven't I really recommend his audio book catching fire it's very fascinating
Absolutely fascinating. I wish it had been twice as long. Thank you, gentlemen. Well done.
It's beautiful to find such an eloquent dialogue between two brilliant minds and see how knowledge grows with shared experience. Nutrition for the spirit.
Try University. Its like this every day.
Sorry to have to comment so late but what a fascinating and informative intellectual engagement; both from the penetrating questions asked and the cautious and studied answers. Ever enlighteninig.Jordan's question of how many killings it takes......was a gold question.
The 1974 - 1978 Gombe war. They developed warfare with some characteristics almost identical to how humans would conduct strategy and battle. It was what Jane Goodall was shocked by to learn about their aggressive, warlike behavior.
Long time fan of you Jordan, the specific pair of the two of you here is something I could watch endlessly.
This was an exceedingly fascinating talk/interview! I think I developed another synapse extension or two.
I look forward to hearing from this man again and will definitely read the books.
Dr. Peterson, your interview skills have become well-defined and it's a joy to tune in to these podcasts. Thank you.
@RenneDanjoule people don’t understand what the 1% difference means (I thought it was closer to 3 or 4% difference). The two genomes are lined up and it’s only those parts that match that are compared. It’s only the genes we share that are looked at for variation. Genes we don’t share aren’t considered. Also I don’t think the technique allows the consideration of genes that compare but in some cases aren’t operating. Many genes are inoperative or turned down. Many human genes differ from similar chimp genes on this account and is responsible for some of humans « infantilised facial features » compared to chimps. As most genes code for basic cellular processes it’s not surprising that we share a lot. I think we’re about 10% different from cats, etc. But the small quantitative difference in dna can make for huge behavioural differences.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is a ridiculous title. That 1 percent makes all the difference in the world.
Ok
Why did JP closed the discussion when an anthropologic proof of male dominance over woman by dictating the moral code was given ?? I was expecting some kind of comment.
Such a good interview! Your style puts me at ease listening, and seems to have a profound affect on your interactions with Dr. Wrangman. Amazing content Dr. Peterson, unbelievably sincere. Thank you.
What a great interlocution, and what a fascinating subject. Thank you to both. The books will make for interesting reading. Regarding humankind, and our current behaviours, I find that given the right opportunity either by status, peer pressure or greed we do not hesitate to go back to our “original form”. Wars between “neighbouring groups” as they are happening now in our time frame explain this very well. That would be a great debatable subject…Men kill men that have interfered with their families…Are we all capable of this? Are we just a time bomb waiting to explode given the right set of circumstances?... And all our children are at risk from groups of marauding predators, I am sure that most fathers would not hesitate to take action against such a vile and infamous sick animal.
1:18:18 One of the things interesting to note about most Native American Tribes, no matter what name they were known as to others, their own name for their tribe was normally translated as _The People,_ or _The Human Beings,_ ALL Other tribes were _Others._
Not most
This was a fascinating and illuminating discussion. Some definite food for thought.
Absolutely loved this discussion, thank you so much!
The Japanese movie Jordan Peterson mentioned was "The Ballad of Narayama" and it really is hard-hitting. It's notable that - in modern society at least - communication is considered more the realm of women, who in a way "weave the fabric if society" through their interactions. I think the possible (albeit less visible) role of the females of the species in this far-reaching chang of the social structure of our species should not be entirely overlooked - as it has been by the esteemed professor(s).
Now I'm scrolling thru looking for the first "I'm offended " comment but to my surprise everybody is instead just having a discussion. I'm in unfamiliar territory 😶
Ty i was hoping someone would post this too
"Chatter" imparts invaluable social information. And per usual, another male mistakes domination of a given area, or even imitation as it genesis. For instance, you can see agriculture as a male innovation...look at recorded human history and there's little there to suggest otherwise, but contrary wise accept the premise of "man the hunter" and "woman the gatherer" and completely ignore the probability that women first noticed the foodstuffs they were familiar with sprouted from seeds ingested & evacuated, then deciding to just dump seeds on soil closer to their home homebase (s) to save themselves tedious and dangerous trudging. Let's look at medicine, animal husbandry (gee whiz, why do the oldest domesticated animal have human-like faces in their infancy!?) Given that males are now females, it seems these takeovers are neverending. You'll do it better, of course.
Anthropologists tend to concentrate on the male input to society because, first of all, until fairly recently they were mainly men, and secondly because the artefacts left by early mankind and hominids were stone. Great stuff, Stone, long lasting.
Unlike what the female input was, which would have involved food gathering, as in the actual plucking or digging up of fruits and roots and harvesting wild grains, necessitating some kind of means to hold the produce. Thus hollow gourds or similar to carry water, grains, eggs; making of twine from plant fibre, useful for tying bundles of wood together for ease of transport, leading to making nets for fishing or catching birds, or snares to catch small game; leading to weaving baskets then fabric for clothing. This, I’d suggest, had more to do with the making of society and civilisation than hunting down wildebeest or mammoths. Unfortunately, all those things are biodegradable and so there’s little to no trace left of them, we can only infer they must have occurred. Just as we infer that cave paintings were for “religious” purposes, ignoring the possibility that maybe they had to do with instructing the up and coming hunters about the various animals they’d be hunting, or more frivolously just decorations because the ice age winter nights were long and cave walls are sooo boring!
@INTP What does your question have to do with how gender roles developed???
I like the fact that Jordan asked Richard about his period spend in Africa when he was 17. It probably would have just been overlooked by other interviewers but it showed so much about Richard as a young man - very revealing about his development. Loved about the tail pulling on the elephant !
It helped me understand when he was explaining, bonding via cooking.
Learning is exciting . These interviews are exciting . Thank you for giving us this interview.
Robert Ardrey wrote a trilogy of books on human evolution. In addition to _African Genesis_ and _The Territorial Imperative_ , he also wrote _The Social Contract._ . Ardrey was an excellent writer and his books are still well worth reading even with the passage of a half century.
I think it would make a strong argument that people who lived in volcanic regions where there was 'hot rocks' around. In the Canaries they dig out a hallow in the earth to access the natural heat and make makeshift ovens to cook food. This alongside the added advantage of fertile soil in volcanic areas to grow crops could have made it easy for mankind to find out the advantages gained by cooking both meat and vegetables. The difficult bit was how to make hot rocks in regions where there was no natural fire sources.
Thank you. This was absolutely fascinating.
I remember reading about Jane Goodall, watching television documentaries about her and her work, reading articles she'd written, and attending one of her lectures. She definitely knew that chimp warfare would be explosive news, she was accused of making it up, and the skepticism and disbelief didn't really die out until other researchers documented the same behavior. Until others found the same behavior, there was also a lot of conjecture that the troop she was observing were somehow aberrant, unique; even that her watching them had somehow disturbed the troop, caused them such anxiety, etc., that she was causing the violence.
@Lynx South this sound like scholars who claim an arceologist faked/ misinterpreted his findings in Minoans temple as human sacrifice,when not only it's common things in the area and age,but also get recorded in myth where Athens have to send children of Noble as offering,a pattern that echo the bibilical record of sacrificing sons as both would hold role of heir
@Lynx South
Nopoo
A fascinating interview. I laughed about the “Elephant Tipping” . Have been fascinated by the similarities & differences between us & other primates.
Fascinating discussion! Thank you, gentlemen.
Fascinating conversation. Please do a sequel!
Jordan is my most recent hero for analyzing social issues (from an altruistic perspective) and is brave enough to challenge established (but not necessarily beneficial) dogma
Rock On JP; Thank You for being a part of ‘My Journey’ the last 10 years!💚
While reminiscing about his early career, Dr. Wrangham often says “yeah, those were the Goodall days!”
I had to look her up, I was thinking Gödel; but reference seemed incomplete.
@luhental r
The Ballad of Narayama
Noice
Boo! Hiss! Bad pun! (Good form, good form!
Funny. Hilarious!)
fantastic conversation, well done to both of you 👍
Lĺlllll0llĺlllĺlĺll0lllĺllĺllllĺlll0ll0l0ll0llĺ0llll00lllĺĺĺll0l0lĺll0lĺĺllĺl0ll0llll0l
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@Everything but Acrylics l0l
A great interview. Thank you, both.
Thank you, Jordan! I could listen to your interviews for hours, and I am :-)
Amazing interview, extremely insightful. Looking forward to read the books!
It's just good to have interesting conversations, especially when JP is involved.....
I absolutely loved this. And I really love seeing the guests face light up when Jordan shows real interest in their field of study, like knowing how they used to study genetic differences by literally pulling DNA apart. Must be such a relief for the guest knowing they aren't having to start from the ground up
Yes, I liked that part too. It shows them they are talking to someone who is not only listening but who can also understand, even if using intellectual imagination, what they’re doing.
JBP does his pre-interview homework, at least with authors, and it makes for exceptional interviews.
@Baby Cheesus keeping everyone anonymous reduces stress and allows people to ask questions they feel like they could be ridiculed for, as long as the chat is between reasonable people I find it hard to see a downside that couldn't be solved by separate non-anonymous chats
My lord, this is profound knowledge! I sincerely thank you both!
Please schedule another conversation!
Try University. Its like this every day.
Thank you for introducing me to this brilliant author.
I appreciate your pre topic attention to detail, reading up to understand the work of your guests. Results in very interesting questions and answers.
Fascinating conversation! Loved it.
My degree and interest in biology aid in my ability to digest and appreciate this kind of discussion where inquiry and discussion can be interesting to digest in terms of the real world.
Much appreciated and we need more of these kind of talks. Brings understanding and for me calm in these times of increased tension in the world.
One of the best interviews I’ve listened to on this podcast so far.I thought I knew something about chimpanzees but I realize that I really didn’t know much at all. I love to watch chimpanzees at the zoo. Now that I have more knowledge my overall experience will be deeper and more rewarding.
Thank you
Amen.
@Colby Swedish 😉
A Finnish Michael Jackson impersonator I presume? :)
one of my favorite interviews. I dont mind the more recent ones that are heavily involved in politics and religion, but its nice to take a break from that every now and than.
I made sure I watched with as much attention as I can muster. When my attention did not hold as long then I made sure to go back and watch it over again. It helps my understanding and that is a such help I appreciate so much. Thank you for sharing your work
The Japanese film mentioned is "The Ballad of Narayama" and exists in two versions. The original film of 1958 and a second version (not a remake) produced in 1968. The latter version is available on Apple TV and a few other streaming services.
Wow!! I just learned so much and highly highly recommend you watch this video. This has been a life-changing experience for me. It really doesn't get better than this.
Awsome interview and a very interesting take on the evolution of morality at the end.
Superb conversation; articulate, rich in detail and captivating. Thanks both of you.
Very cool theories, will definitely be reading the books, thank you! Maybe language also helped curb reactive aggression in humans? People can argue yell and persuade each other and ultimately create more chances to de-escalate. I wonder how much more violent a group of language-less humans would be even today.
@Ben Ji more language gives more opportunities for misunderstanding which counterintuitively perhaps may lead to more violence or at least increased scope for more violence not less but this is just a thought to ponder.
As a sidenote cats develop meowing not to communicate with each other but to communicate with us. Isn't that cool!
@Ben Ji could be but my guess is no language doesn't increase or decrease likelihood of violence between members of the same domesticated species. I think this because I can think of more animals that do not display strong levels of violence between members without language within the species for example domesticated pussy-cats.
West Side Story
@Ben Jithat is very interesting. My immediate thought after reading this was that might be the case but also I could see the development of different languages as a catalyst towards more tribalistic tendencies, ie us vs them. A very strong persistent instinct even in us modern day human beings.
I can’t understand you, therefore we are not the same/equal etc. language would make those differences even more distinct. 🤔
Great question !!
Truly brilliant and useful interview
Thoroughly enjoyed this intelligent and intelligible conversation
What interesting conversation. Loved it.
Very glad I watched this interview--going to have to read those three!
Former Associate Prof. here in Japan (undergrad biology UNC-W, grad school - Education Temple University Japan) watching this great show. I am a big fan of primatologist Frans de Waal too - who posits the roots of human morality as in the empathy and reciprocity of some social animals. I put those two variables at different levels of abstraction, and have redefined human morality for myself as simply 'empathy driven behavior'. Rule driven behavior (that of customs, traditions, laws, algorithms , etc.) is a necessary neural re-routing of direct empathy when we exceed Dunbar's number. I was intrigued by the conversation enough to have bought the Kindle version of Wrangham's first book, and suspect that in-group, out-group violence is a legitimate counter argument to parallel economies at the community level proposed to counter to the recent rise in concentrations of political/economic power at the expense of individual rights. I am literate enough in history to be aware of Unit 731 and Howard Zinn ... and Dunbar's number alone can not account for the human-created horror.
By the way, the 1980's Japanese movie ... 'The Ballad of Narayama', where people who reach the age of 70 are taken to the mountain top to die. This year, 2022 at the Cannes Film Festival, Japanese director Chie Hayakawa is revisiting the theme of encouraged suicide of the elderly, but at the age of 75. Though I've lived here in Japan for the last 40 years, I'll be 67 this September. That gives me eight more at the most. ;-)
@michael s Hi Michaels. Thanks for an alternative idea, and for the implicit acknowledgement that this topic is important in these times of 'wokeness'. Frans de Waal puts reciprocity on an equal footing with empathy, so he might agree with you.
But in thinking about it, I am wondering about two things ...
1) - this might involve more complex thinking such as first identifying, then comparing and contrasting, then calculating in comparison with others in the group, then considering strategies for control, and ...
2) - whereas mirror neurons might account from immediate empathy, I'm wondering what morphological feature might be most highly correlated with the above functions.
Cheers from Japan!
steve
I don't think empathy is the primary driver of morality. I think the primary driver is the need to control free riders of various kinds, individuals who seek to benefit themselves at the expense of other group members.
1:36:00 I suspect this has already been mentioned but I believe the movie in question is The Ballad of Narayama. I haven't watched the whole thing but I'm familiar with the part about disposing of old people on the mountain. It's really quite shocking.
now, have another think about the people who want to push euthanasia and "voluntary" assisted dying,
Truly extraordinary and magnificent discussion.
Fascinating! Thank you for this discussion.
This was good. You listened and let your guest speak. Perhaps because this is a subject you're not versed in. Great job, keep this style up with interviewing guests!
I wanted to hear the answer to this question; how do you prioritize the similarities versus the differences and how do you decide when you can draw conclusions that are more universal rather than local to that particular species? This is the kind of stuff we grapple with all the time.
Dr. Peterson your interviews never cease to enrich my day! Thank you for providing such thoughtful conversations.
Language development aided our evolution but this documentary leaves me Speechless! Incredibly informative. Thanks to both gentlemen. I'm editing to add that this is the best documentary I have ever watched. I'm one of these evolved (¿) west of Ireland tribes.
EVERY day! -
Saturday & Sunday?
Try University. Its like this every day.
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you. I'll buy these three books to read for 2023.
Your better off buying a bible
Amazing!!!! Thank you Jordan for this.
Thank you. I will use this subject as the base of my course on sociology. Hopefully my students will like it!
@Ben jajajaja
Sociology. meh.
The movie Jordan discusses @1:36:00 is called 'The Ballad of Narayama' . He is talking about the 1983 version. It was also filmed in 1958.
Very enlightening conversation. This kind conversations help curious generalists like myself to understand evolution of human values over time without having to read lengthy multiple books. Thanks to both Dr Peterson and the professor Wrangham for brining it to us.
A true jewel...
Very interesting and I can see how it relates to our primordial instincts as humans... however, we humans are not apes..... we might physically be much weaker, but what made us humans top of the food chain is the combination of brain power and tool making to do the fighting for us. A pack of lions can have all the muscles and physical strength in the world but it won't last 5 seconds against someone with an AK47 that just shoots it to bits, the lions will just be slaughtered like sheep; cannon fodder; which our cousins in the animal kingdom lack... which is why I think what the west does is extremely stupid with the strength of atom bombs we have today... like what is the US gonna do... watch out over the waste lands of their entire cities turned to dust by Russia's nukes and say 'I know it looks bad, but you should see the other guy.'.... Like the politicians of today have NO CLUE what the atom bomb did for horrors to Hiroshima and Nagasaki; and those are child's play toys compared to today's hydrogen bombs.... on top of that, the west can certainly start a war, but I'm pretty certain they can't win a war; particularly as Russia, China and the Middle East join forces as the west has been pushing for, for the last 2 decades.
This was really enjoyable and interesting to listen to
If only other outlets were as thorough as you Dr Peterson
Very few individuals who can articulate an argument with such passion and confidence. With an accuracy unparalleled these days.
Try University. Its like this every day.
This was awesome!! Omg yes another discussion would be brilliant
Out of all the Deciplans required to map the Origins and Development of Homosapiens. I'm to believe that we came out of Aferica and migrated to an exstreme cold clmate. I've definitely got too do some serious research on this issue.
This discussion didn't disappoint.....the time flew by. I'd really love to hear more.
Report my account because people are pretending to be me and posting on my behalf.
Fascinating. Really good conversation. Thanks
There is so much information here to digest where does one begin? It's a humbling and sobering insight into power dynamics, social cohesion, biology, species sexual behaviour and so much more. Very insightful and profound.
Dear Jordon Peterson, would love to hear a show on your thoughts on the teacher Barry Smith who predicted all the things that are happening now. He was telling everyone what is happening now was coming back in the 90’s.
This has to be one of the best podcasts I’ve listened to, in fact I think I’ve listened back through three times now.
Most excellent conversation!
Excellent interview. I learned quite a bit. The last part about the differences in aggression related to brain size, and the domestication of humans relating to lack of alphas, was especially enlightening.
@Amon nomaTribes exist in cities. We call them gangs!!!
@Amon noma consider how territorial invasions must have domesticated us as well, probably most aggressive males would mobilize to fight an invading army/group. I wonder if male populations twenty thousand years ago were substantially more aggressive or uncooperative.
@godsmoker 1.0 gagarot Maybe the external influence in this " domestication" (which is a weird way of expressing it I agree) is human population size mixed with a complete change in human life style. It wasn't that long ago we lived as hunter gathers, sometimes not seeing other humans for months at a time. That tribal nature in humans came from this time. Now suddenly we live in cities of millions, and this tribal nature is incompatible for this environment. Humanity it seems is under going some sort of transformation to something that is more suitable to a densely populated species, and we are in the early turbulent stage of the transformation. Things will probably be completely unrecognizable from our point of view in a few generations. I'm no expert but it seems that way to me.
In a moderately tangential vein, given which of aggression or affiliation requires more cultural fostering, one should note that the implementations of Rousseau-esque ideologies have resulted in mass-murder with far greater frequency and severity than implementations of Hobbes' ideologies. I suspect this might have to do with the fact that acts of violence often have catastrophic and terminal consequences, while acts of kindness need to become habitual, if they are not to be undone by relatively few acts of violence. Even if both impulses are equally innate in us, as a numbers game, it requires few acts of violence to ruin a society that otherwise frequently manifests kindness, and this requires us to pay special attention to our aggressive impulses when we are talking about how our societies are formed. Utopian schemes based on Rousseau, Marx, et al. set up unrealistic expectations and set us up for bitter disappointments that trigger aggressive, "Off with their heads!" impulses. It only takes one act of violence to kill someone and undo a life of thousands of kind acts, so kindness isn't something to be taken for granted.
An amazing book about Aggression in animal behavior and by extension sheds incite into human aggression is a book by Konrad Lorenz called, “On Agression”. It’s one of my favorite books ever. Just thought I would suggest it
I found this a very interesting conversation talking about human and ape behaviour. I'm always interested in the history of humans and how we have evolved from apes. This is why I listen to KZclip much more than terrestrial TV these days.
This was awesome. Real science is being willing to be wrong.
Amazing discussion. Too bad it almost feels criminal to listen to such conversation in todays world.
Enjoyed it a lot! Thank You! 🙏
It's refreshing;I'd call that conversation, Beautiful. If only our Public Channel Interviewers had Jordan's mindset.
Ah I love how Dr. Peterson is always so genuinely welcoming towards his podguests! One can really tell that they feel truly appreciated. Always puts a natural smile on my face when they wrap up :)
Haha yeah JP's podcast endings are always so incredibly polite and warm :)
The depth of the exchange that takes place within a mere 90 minutes is enough to create a state of "agglutination" of one's desire to stay and stay and stay in the circle of the conversation and actually remain engrossed in it in the aftermath of its ending. I guess this wondrously addictive approach to listening and pondering is what learning is all about. Oh, that I were young again to take advantage of this discovery. Thank you Jordan and Richard for creating these moments of wonder and beauty.
Wonderful! Thank you both.
I totally enjoyed this discussion and was pleasantly surprised how these two scholars did not toss the names of various Universities around as merit badges or ribbon sashes from Her Majesty, as too many of his guests have done.